Athens vs Jerusalem - President Oaks Picks Up an Ancient Fight

The Two Ways We Know Truth Science, revelation, and why they don’t conflict “Never Let Secular Learning Limit Your Spiritual Horizons” Is Faith Unscientific? “The Church Isn’t True, but the Gospel Is”? President Oaks Disagrees

 Raw Transcript:

overcoming uncertainty and doubt which may include resolving conflicts between
the evolving understanding of science and the sometimes incomplete teachings of religion. I loved President Oak's
talk in this past conference last week, October 2026.
He goes over so many things are just so fundamental, so basic, but that kind of draw us back to an understanding of certain principles. this is the true church. We don't hear that very often.
We have heard that from him now since he has taken the reigns of the church, so to speak, not officially. I mean, he's
it's the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, obviously, but since he's been in charge of the church here, he has talked about this very
specifically, it seems to be a message of his. Of course, he continues on with peacemaking. He uh continues on about
missionary work and and some other themes that that President Nelson had gone over. But one thing that he has
brought up now at least twice is is this is the true church of Jesus
Christ. And that makes us distinct from the rest of Christianity. I'm going to go over that as well as give a little
breakdown on his speech on his talk from this past conference. This episode is brought to you by Warriors of Tiana
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Chapter 3: The one true church
All right, let's go right into his talk right from the beginning. I want to take a look at what he brings up here that is so basic and fundamental, but it it's
something that we've gone away from a little bit and I have seen the feedback from other members of the church both in person and on this platform
uh with regards to this is the one true church. We need to hold on to that. And President Oaks seems to have this message. Here's what he starts with.
This is the church of Jesus Christ.
So named because it is his church with the restored fullness of his
doctrine and authority in these latter days.
Okay. So this is again I think that if I have talked to several people members of the church that have said yeah but
but we're really just part of a a greater Christianity or it's it we're not you know it's all the same to some
degree at least they're still with Christ if they're with a different denomination. Okay, there is truth to that. But we need to hold we need to
believe that and and support other Christian denominations for the most part. For the most part, but hang on to
the truth that this is the only true church. Now, he has said this before. He said this last year. This is the only true church. And what we mean by that is
that as he just explained it is the truth of the restored gospel and the true authority.
Those have been restored. That is the whole point of the restoration. What I really like about what he is talking about, he's not just talking about Jesus
Christ. You say, "Greg, what what do you mean? Everything's supposed to be Jesus Christ." You have to add something to that. You have to put context to things.
And if you just say Jesus Christ, then then everybody's got every Christian denomination's got Jesus Christ. What makes us distinct?
We have a truth, several truths that nobody else has. We have an authority that nobody else has. That is the truth.
And that doesn't mean we put it in other people's faces. That doesn't mean that we are superior because of it in terms of value for each of each person. But it
5 minutesmeans that we do have the restored gospel and it means that we do have the priesthood
and and that is a direct line we believe going right back to John the Baptist and Peter, James and John.
So don't lose that.
We have great Christian brothers and sisters, but there is only one true church. And notice that he's not just saying the
true gospel. A lot of us want to say that. It's well, the church might not be true, but the gospel is true. That is false.
It's false.
As he just explained, President O just explained, it is the true church. This is right in section one of the Doctrine of Covenants. section one of the doctrine of covenants.
It is the true church because we have the true the truths of the restoration and the priesthood of the restoration,
the authority and the knowledge, right? Which gives us the temple and the ordinances and and and the plan of
salvation and that is not found anywhere else. All right, let's keep going.
Chapter 4: Nature of the Godhead
It is his church for many reasons.
As we state in our first article of faith, we believe in God the eternal
father and in his son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost
in Okay, I'm going to stop that right there because uh I want to say
this is obviously this is a very popular thing online right now. It's kind of like the Trinity versus the Godhead, right? And and that's fine. I think that
there are are are good fruits that can come from that. Um and and one of the greatest truths of the
restoration is the nature of God and an understanding of that because there's so much that I've talked about previously.
I'm not going to go into now, but there's so much more of the gospel that is put into context and understanding about our identity and our purpose based
on the nature of God. And it's removed with the one triune God in the in the Trinity. All of those things are removed. You have a different identity.
You are a creature, not a child of God. You're a creature, not a child of God. you are not a
participant in the way that the plan of salvation says that we are participants
uh based on the nature of God. And so that is a big deal. So he's clearing it making it very clear again distinctions
restoration the true church the Godhead right up front basic fundamental truths.
It is his church for many reasons.
As we state in our first article of faith, we believe in God the eternal
father and in his son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.
God the Father, the great Elohim, is the father of our spirits.
Here we go. the framer of heaven and earth and the author of the plan of our salvation.
Okay, one more thing I want to cover here on this because this is something that I hear often.
Chapter 5: Premortal plans clarified
Jesus is not the author of the plan of salvation and was probably not even the one fighting against Satan in the
premortal world. These are cultural assumptions that are not based on scripture or or doctrine. Right? It
wasn't Jesus versus Satan in the premortal world, right? Those were the two that that offered themselves to be the son of God.
But Jesus did not come forward with a plan. Jesus supported or Jehovah supported Elohim's plan and offered himself up to be the sacrificial lamb.
Right.
Uh Lucifer had a different plan from the father and wanted to rebel against the father and wanted to control agency.
They were different plans, but it was the father's plan versus Satan's plan.
So, let's understand that we get that mixed up sometimes because we hear about Jesus offering himself up as the son to
be the son of God, which is a title and a role. We're not just talking about uh
a spiritual son of a of a lit or with a literal father. It's a role and a title.
It's the one that will come down and be born of a woman and and be and go through the process of cond uh condescension
and and Satan offers the same thing. So that's what we get with the offering of who's going to be the son of God. Uh but
the plans are very different. But it's not Jesus versus Lucifer. It's the father versus Lucifer in those plans.
And the actual fight seems to me to be that it's more Michael/Adam,
the leader of men, mankind, against Satan. Those are the two sides that are fighting one with another. Right? So
just some clarity here that he's he's giving again on some basic fundamental doctrines.
Jesus Christ is his only begotten son, Jehovah,
and the Messiah, the God of the whole earth.
As the Book of Mormon declares, salvation was and is and is to come in
and through the atoning blood of Christ, the Lord omnipotent.
11 minutesOkay. So, a couple of other things here that I think are really important. And I know that that gaining a stronger
Chapter 6: The role of Jesus Christ
relationship and understanding of Jesus Christ is and will be a major centerpiece for President Oaks
and and it should be, right? Um, but notice how he is making a clear distinction of members of the Godhead
here, right? I I I hear sometimes that, you know, we we take on a very Christian language sometimes, a Christianity more
broadly. Sometimes when we talk about um you know, well, Jesus provided this for me or Jesus did this for me. Well, was it Jesus or was it God the Father?
Who do you pray to? Who do you ask things from? Is it Jesus or is it heavenly father?
Who are we trying to return to? Is it Jesus or is it the father?
And so we need to keep I think we need to keep that in mind that distinction and understanding the way of salvation is Jesus Christ.
That is the way the way I I would call it number one the way of kings but I would also call it the way back to the
father. When we are going through the temple process, the endowment,
we are going through the way which is Jesus Christ in order to get to the
father. It is the father that we embrace on the other side of the veil. Christ is the veil itself.
So those are very distinct and again they're important because when we start to mix these things up other pieces of doctrine can become very nebulous.
Latter-day Saints invite each other and all men and women everywhere to [snorts] come unto Christ.
Chapter 7: The covenant path
As a prophet has told us in the Book of Mormon, I would that ye should come unto Christ,
who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation and the power of his redemption.
As your president, I pray for what our heavenly father wants for each of us to
be active members of the church of Jesus Christ proceeding forward on the covenant path into the eternities.
Okay. So again, focusing this is something that President Nelson pushed, which was the the covenant path. He's not the one that actually came up with
that. I know who came up with that that phrase but but he's the one that adopted it and and brought it public to the
church a lot stronger obviously. So the covenant path so that is the temple that is another very fundamental basic thing
about the church uh that is does not exist anywhere else. It is the priesthood and its ordinances found within the temple
and and following through on that covenant path starting with baptism and ending typically for many with with a ceiling and being married in the temple.
Uh for some that doesn't happen. Uh and for others there are is even another ordinance that that can be done. And so
that path is something that we should be following which requires the authority of God.
It requires the priesthood. It requires an understanding of the temple which has existed since the beginning of mankind.
At least the ordinances uh have have existed since the beginning of mankind. Let me take that back. It's existed since the gospel was revealed to
15 minutesAdam, which actually doesn't happen until about the third generation of mankind.
Chapter 8: Overcoming doubt
We all have present or future concerns or struggles we are trying to overcome.
These may include questions or doubts.
Whatever they are, the way to overcome them is to get closer to our savior Jesus Christ.
Again and again, he has taught us that he is the way.
Focus on developing your faith in God and the mission of his son Jesus Christ.
Strong faith requires more than strong desire.
It means okay so more than desire and more than just a belief
the way we use the term belief is is sometimes used as if it's faith
uh but but really the way we usually use the term belief do you believe in God is is something that is much more
superficial than developing a a real faith and a knowledge through that faith of God or or the principles of the gospel.
Daily trying one step at a time with prayer and scriptural learning.
We are all a work in progress.
We are all at different places on what President Nelson called the covenant path.
We need to be patient with one another and occasionally even with ourselves.
Overcoming uncertainty and doubt which may include resolving conflicts between
the evolving understanding of science and the sometimes incomplete teachings of religion.
Hold on. So he's talking about two different types of knowledge here that are this is very
important I believe. I I love that he is going over this. Number one he says going with the ongoing process of
religion. Um I'm going to play that again because I want to know exactly the words he said conflicts between the evolving
understanding of science and the sometimes incomplete teachings of religion. Okay. So he gives a caveat to
each type of knowledge here. First of all, the ongoing now I just lost it again. The ongoing process or uh
Chapter 9: Science and religion
learning through science, right? Science is only what it is today. We we have a an understanding of science. The people that believe that science is God is the
God is have a problem because you can believe something today based on the knowledge we have gained so far
today and then it could be completely turned upside down in a decade or tomorrow with with future findings and and
basically history can change completely based on archaeology or DNA even and and an medicine can
change greatly and an understanding of the body uh and and how it works is is can be completely changed. So, it's only as good as what we've learned so far.
And that's important to understand the limitations there. But he also puts the caveat in there on religion,
right? That that incomplete religion and what does that mean? Well, of course, that goes along with an ongoing revelation
process with the church. We don't believe in solar scriptor where we've got, you know, just the Bible and there's nothing left there. That is incomplete. Sorry. The Bible is incomplete.
And and so more and more revelation is received. And that can be whether it's in the additional scripture books of scripture that we have or what we
receive from the prophets and apostles today and and what we may receive in the future. So that is all ongoing. Um I
know people have hyped up all of this about a new book of scripture coming even or new scriptures coming. Who knows? Who knows? Uh but there is
ongoing revelation and of course it is prophesied that one day there will be more scriptures that are brought from
other people's or found or found. So ongoing revelation is an important thing
and another very basic fundamental doctrine of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a lengthy process.
Chapter 10: Scientific and spiritual methods
It involves building faith and strengthening humility.
Hold on to the first article of faith even if something else is uncertain.
And while you wait, wait upon the Lord, which includes trusting in his timing as well as in his promises.
Okay? Trusting trusting in his timing as well as in his promises. That is faith.
Faith is trust. Faith is trust. And I have heard
then Elder Oaks say this specifically, succinctly, and boldly, faith is trust.
Major concern to your prophet leaders are those members of diminishing faith in Jesus Christ.
We love you young men and women, young and old.
So does the Lord God.
He is relentless in his loving pursuit of each of you.
Because of this concern and according to his words, I urge you to keep the commandments
and be true to the covenants so many of you have made to guide you along the covenant path.
Never let your secular learning limit your spiritual horizons.
Okay, I think that again this is really important. All right, we have two sides here. we have got
Athens and we've got Jerusalem or in times it was Alexandria and Jerusalem.
Right? So you've got you've got the spiritual knowledge and the scriptures and the prophets and then you've got a secular world and those have always
22 minutesbattled. This is why we have the great apostasy.
It is because we had two competing forms of knowledge and instead of working with
them combined with prophecy and spiritual knowledge having the edge over
things even though a secular knowledge can help us to understand things.
we end up with things like neoplatanism and and a triune god, a trinity where
where we get Alexandria at the time is coming in from Athens, right? And and bringing in the philosophies of men and
changing the entire nature of God and therefore when we bring that in we lose precious truths.
So the ability uh this doesn't go away.
It's the ability to hold on to a secular learning while holding firmly to
rooted gospel principles and not losing that. And that is something that is happening.
We are becoming more and more secularized. That secularization comes through the temples of the academy,
right? the universities and and not all of them, not all the time, but that's where it comes from.
That's where it faments mostly in the halls of humanities is where we get this.
So, you got we've got to learn to be able to balance both sides of these these two types of knowledge. Both, by the way,
work in the same way. Both are use what I would call the scientific method.
I'm going to go over that briefly here.
We are grateful to know that there are two methods of gaining needed knowledge.
One, the evolving disclosures of man through the scientific method and
digital information which may be inaccurate.
And two, the truths covered discovered through the spiritual method which
begins with faith in God and relies on scriptures, inspired teaching and personal revelation.
Okay, I want to go over this now. He's talking about two different methods. He calls one the scientific method and then he talks calls the other one the
spiritual method. In my mind, this is just, you know, gospel by Greg here. In my mind, the way I see this, especially
from reading Hebrews chap 11 and especially Elma 32, this is the same method. It's we do the
same thing. And and so, you know, if we briefly look here at Elma 32 and I go uh
Chapter 11: Experimenting on the word
so if we briefly look at Elma 32 and I go to verse 17, yay, there are many who do say, if thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of
assurityity, then we shall believe. All right, so this is this is Elma trying to explain something. What he's saying here is that people that look that are sign
seekers, what they're trying to do is make a shortcut from just show me the fruit. Just show me the manifestation
instead of oh, I have to go through the process of faith. This process of building faith is so important
that actually asking for the manifestation of the truth, getting a perfect knowledge of something upfront will destroy me.
destroy me in the sense that I I cannot continue to progress. Right? The entire plan of salvation is built around the
idea of progression. And that progression is built through faith and repentance. Repentance simply putting yourself on track to grow.
And so the sign seekers are ones that want to go beyond that. They want they don't want to do the hard thing, right?
26 minutesWhich is easy to understand, but they don't want to do the hard thing. They just want it given to them. like core just give me the sign he doesn't
want to have faith faith is not belief by the way faith is not belief faith is not belief look down a little further
here in verse 19 and now how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doth it not than he that only
believeth or only hath caused to believe and fallth into transgression right what that's basically saying again is faith is a process of moving through knowledge
the more knowledge I gain and then I turn from it okay then there's more condemnation from it that's the risk you take that that's do I want to partake of
the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil do I want to go through adversity do I want to go through the idea that I have
to hold on to something that I have to exercise trust I have to exercise faith in order to gain more knowledge
27 minutes21 and now as I said concerning faith faith is not to have a perfect knowledge. A perfect knowledge is once it manifests itself. When the brother of
Jared sees Christ, he has faith no longer. Not allegiance, by the way. He's not going to give up
his allegiance at that point. Just from a discussion that I had earlier today, he's going to give up the trust because
he doesn't need it. It's right in front of him. He has a perfect knowledge of it. He would not have a perfect knowledge of Christ coming to the earth.
That would not be a perfect knowledge because it's not manifest to him in front of him.
So he still has to have faith that Christ is going to come to the earth because it's unseen. It's in the future.
Right? So faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things. That doesn't mean you don't have any knowledge. You have to have knowledge first before you can
grow with faith. Therefore, if ye have faith, ye hope for things which are not seen. A hope is looking forward or it
could be looking back even which are true. Which are true.
Faith is based off of truth. If you're standing on things that are true, then you can trust them.
If you're standing on things and and throwing faith out or what you think is faith to things that go against natural law
first and spiritual law, then it's not faith.
I can have an allegiance to Satan and not trust that he's going to do
what's right for me or anybody else. I just become wicked, right? But I can't trust him that he's
going to help me follow spiritual and natural law.
He would have to beguile me in order for that to happen. And that is not faith.
29 minutesUh okay. And then lastly here 26 and 27.
Now as I said concerning faith that it was not a perfect knowledge. It's still knowledge. You have to have knowledge first. Even so it is with my words.
That's the knowledge.
You cannot know of their assurity at first. He's going to give you a little bit of knowledge and then you're going to exercise trust in them and try it
out. Prove it. Right? You cannot know of their assurity at first unto perfection any more than faith is a perfect knowledge. And then this is the
beautiful thing he goes over in 27. But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, he's not asking you to give some blind faith or belief in something.
Oh, you just believe. Just believe. That is a terrible way to live religiously.
Terrible, terrible way to live and a terrible way to build your testimony.
Testimonies are built on evidence and knowledge because faith grows with testimony and knowledge. That is the purpose of faith.
That's the purpose of trust in these things is to gain a knowledge of their functionality,
of their goodness, and to see the fruits of that faith.
Look at what he says here. He says, "Awaken, arouse your faculties even to an experiment." He calls it an experiment just like the scientific method.
An experiment upon my words, the knowledge I'm going to give you. God is perfect. God loves you. God has sacrificed everything for you. See, I
have to know that. I have to at least have a knowledge of this before I'm willing to have any kind of faith in this being.
So, knowledge precedes faith. Yay. Even if ye can no more than desire to believe, that's where you start. Let
this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
Give me a little bit of knowledge. Let me exercise faith and trust in this and try it out. Experiment with it. See,
then when I do that and I prove it, proving it mean meaning I put it through a trial of experiment
then I have something to stand on. It's not just I believe this and you believe that. My testimony isn't well I believe this. My testimony is this works.
This is right. This is true. And ultimately, that's what peace is.
Peace is living in harmony with both natural law and spiritual law.
You cannot have peace if you or those around you are not living by natural law and spiritual law. It's impossible.
That's why Zion ends up being a place of one heart and one mind because you're all in harmony. In in in Egyptian they called it mat.
Uh you're going to it's everybody living in mat in balance with with things.
Uh so anyway just on that side note there I I I I love what he was saying because it talks about the two different sides the
secular and the spiritual. And ultimately when you look at it, the spiritual method is the scientific
method. It is trial and error, experience and observation in the way things go. And that's how you
build a testimony. And I'm passionate about this because I think so many people lose their testimonies because
Chapter 12: Building a firm testimony
they're not standing on the fruits of their trial, of their proving the principles of the gospel. If I'm a new
missionary that's going out to the field and and I want to bear my testimony, what I need to do is think about what I
have tried and experimented with. Even if it's on just your mission itself. But if you've come from a home that has
lived by this, you've probably just been privileged, so to speak, of living in a good home, maybe with two parents that
love you and creating a certain type of environment, giving you a certain life.
And one of the great things about leaving that is being able to grow up and to look back on that and think to yourself, "Wow,
I am unbelievably grateful for what was given to me." the knowledge of the gospel, the way I was raised. These
things I am grateful for because they work and because they're good there. It it it provided goodness for me and my siblings
and my my family, right? You can that's a testimony and you can get more specific than that
34 minutesobviously with different things or this is what I do as a missionary and this is what works. It's not just a matter of feeling.
Yes, it's the the most important thing is the spirit has given you this, but you have to have a buildup of experiment
and knowledge through experience that the gospel principles work and especially the atoning sacrifice of
Jesus Christ and how that has affected your life.
That's truth. That's a testimony. That's faith.
that is built on that those things. All right, I'm off my my uh soap box here.
Okay, on with President Oaks. There is no ultimate conflict between knowledge
Chapter 13: Summary and conclusion
obtained by these different methods because God our omnipotent father
knows all truth and expects us to learn by both methods.
Okay. So, those are the things that I really loved about his talk. Now, obviously, all all of it was fantastic and it's something to hear from your
prophet, from your leader, uh, uh, from our president based on his words, the way he talks about it as your president.
He says, I love it when he says that.
Um, he's taking on the role, right? And, and he's bold about it. And but those are the things that I loved about it.
the two types of knowledge, the fundamental truths of the gospel being being uh stated again and again, right?
What were those fundamental things? Some of them it's the nature of God.
It is that there is a father. He is the father of our spirits that changes our identity and that there is a savior, a a
the son of God who has a specific role and that he is the way to get back to the father. It explains the plan of salvation
and actually makes us participants. When you look at the plurality or the pluralism of of the Godhead and and
those that are with God and working with God, it's it's we're all part of a large
mankind uh organism almost, if you will, that is that is participating if we choose in the plan of salvation. being a
part of it, not just uh ones to react to it, not just someone to react to God or
just creatures of God. The plan of salvation changes everything. He says that we are the one true church. That's what he started with. We are and it's
not just the gospel, but it is the church as well. That is the true church.
And these are things that are distinct from everyone else. And we want to hold that up as a light to the world.
when we talk about creating bridges and and peacemaking, okay, all of these things are great and wonderful,
but you don't do it at the sacrifice of truth. You don't do it [music] at the sacrifice of truth. And and and I think
we we we heard that in this conference, not just from President Oak, [music] but from others. Thanks for listening.