Come Follow Me LDS- Romans 7-16, Part 1

'Law - Judgement - Grace'
- We have all partaken of the fruit
- We are subject to the law and its consequences
- Grace 'Covers' the law
- Both Trees are necessary

Paul's orchestration of Faith, Works & Grace, along with 'The Law' and Judgement, can be seen in the story of the Garden of Eden.


 Come Follow Me

LDS Mormon New Testament Romans Bible


in this episode we discuss the law and

how it creates justice and how justice

requires grace here we go okay in this

episode we're going to cover Romans

chapter 7 through 11 we will follow up

in the following episode with chapters

12 through 16 and finish off Romans and

here starting off in chapter 7 Paul he

uses a comparison between a man and a

woman in marriage to the law and the

spirit of the law which would be works

and faith or works and grace and how

were to perceive these two sides of

things and he makes this comparison he

says look if a woman is married to a man

than she is tied to that man in the

bonds of matrimony under the law but if

the man dies then she is free from that

man and can marry another man and he

uses that example as the law and

primarily the law of Moses but again

we're gonna expand on that a little bit

it's really the law of God but now the

Christians here he's saying I can move

beyond the law of Moses or the law of

God and can move toward grace and faith

and offer faith in the atonement which

has now taken place so he says this in

verse sex here and this is in chapter 7

but now we are delivered from the law

that being dead wherein we were held

that we should serve in newness of

spirit not in the oldness of the letter

so again we have that letter of the law

and the spirit of the law now try to

remember who it was but one of the

Apostles and

years back was giving a talk about this

and he still said look we need to follow

the letter of the law we try hard to

follow the letter of law but we see what

it but we look forward to what it

provides for us and what its purpose is

so Paul now is saying look in Judaism

we've only had the letter of the law and

we haven't even looked at it right we

haven't looked at it as a forward to

Jehovah becoming Jesus Christ but now

that the atonement is effectuated we

need to focus on faith and on the grace

that has been provided by God and

therefore we need to focus more on the

spirit of the law and not just the

letter of the law because the letter of

the law on its own is dead right as I've

said many times it just it eats in on

itself if it doesn't have something to

look forward to so it's the spirit of

the law that needs to be focused on here

and we can go back again we can so many

times in the scriptures I think we

forget to use the primary example of the

creation and the Garden of Eden remember

this is the core of our theology is the

fall and the atonement the sacrifice and

resurrection of Jesus Christ and so if

we look at those two things we can say

okay partaking of the tree of knowledge

of good and evil that is partially a

representation of the law that's what

provides the letter of the law

that's what opens our eyes because B we

have the law in front of us we can see

what's right and what's wrong we have

opposites as Lehi says there must be

opposition in all things we have context

we are become like the gods in that

sense and yet what are we trying to do

now that we have all partaken of the

fruit because we have all partaken of

the fruit we are now in mortality and we

are subject to the law and of course if

we have the fullness of the gospel then


more so we've had a complete feast of

the fruit of the knowledge of the tree

of the knowledge of good and evil but

we're still what we're trying to do now

is get back to the other tree we're

trying to get back to the Tree of Life

and who is the life and the light and

the way it is Jesus Christ he is the

other tree so to speak and the

atonement the sacrifice and the

resurrection are the other tree so you

have the law on one side with a tree of

knowledge of good and evil but now we

have to try and get back with that law

that we have we have to now work our way

back to the Tree of Life and rely on

that Tree of Life that faith in the

atonement so the fall and the atonement

and by the way what is placed in front

of the Tree of Life between these two

trees let's say we partake into the

fruit of the tree of the knowledge of

good and evil and now something's been

put in front of the Tree of Life right

to guard us to keep us away from it what

is that it's judgment it's judgment the

sword and the cherubim which is plural

angels basically is placed there or they

are placed there in front of the tree of

knowledge or the Tree of Life because

they are judgment and we can't get by

them it's impossible for us to get by

them without the atonement without the

Savior and so the atonement allows us to

make our way through that pathway to

arrive at the Tree of Life into to

experience the fullness of the grace of

God and he does explain that a little

bit here in verse 7 he says what shall

we say then is the law sin he says god

forbid nay I had not known sin but by

the law so again I mean you have to

have the law in place you have ever

taken of the fruit for I had not known

lust except the law

said thou shalt not covet in other words

the law knowing the law of anything of

any of the commandments we now know that

something that is wrong and therefore

because we're not perfect we're going to

sin right that's what he says in verse

eight and in verse nine again this is

Garden of Eden language he says for I

was alive without the law once so think

of yourself in a state before mortality

before you are given the knowledge of

good and evil before the law is given to

you and you are then as he says here for

I was alive without the law once but

when the commandment came sin revived

and I died what happens with Adam after

he what is he told he's told that in the

day that he / takes of the fruit that he

is surely going to die and that is both

a physical death through mortality and a

spiritual death through mortality

because it separates us from God what

separates us from God well it's the same

thing that brings us back which is the

law so I had given an example in in one

of the episodes that I've done on

covenant called cutting a covenant and I

use the word cleave cleave means both to

separate right to pull apart just like

in the fall and it means to grab on to

to bring back together it's the same

it's both sides and that's what this is

this is all about covenant and so the

law brings us it severs us in that

relationship from God because we sin but

it is also what we are trying to follow

to become like him and to work our way

back through obedience it's just that we

fall short and down toward the end of

the chapter here in 7 he uses our

bodies as a representation of the law

and of sin and then our spirit or our

minds as an example of our spirituality

and so he says this in 22 for I delight

in the law of God after the

in word men or our minds our hearts our

spirit but I see another law in my

members warring against the law of my

mind so this is you know it's like the

the little devil and the little

angel sitting on our shoulders our

bodies are naturally what hold us back

unless we can master them and that's

part of what we're supposed to do if you

think about the creation story where

there is a void and the deep and chaos

basically in place and the light comes

out to it and then organization starts

and there is creation begins that's the

idea with our spirit in our own bodies

is that we are creating a new creature

we're creating a new man a new woman of

ourselves and so we're bringing together

these two sides of the law so to speak

and the spirit and he says in verse 24 a

wretched man that I am Who Shall deliver

me from the body of this death and again

that's a representation of the lower law

so we think of the sacrament and the

bread that is the lower law that's the

ironic law the carnal law that we have

to have we have to have the law right we

have to have that that is that as a

representation of us trying to reach up

to God and then he says I thank God

through Jesus Christ our Lord so then

with the mind I myself serve the law of

God so with my mind I tried to overcome

my body but with the flesh the law of

sin right so we have to have both we

have to experience sin actually we have

to go through that so that we can repent

and he's gonna talk about this a little

bit more toward the end of this episode

and down in verse 16 here in chapter 8

he makes a very important point and he

ties something together it's our

identity so as he's talking about the

law and our choices our agency he ties

it very wittingly here to us being

children of God sons and daughters of

God and that identity that where we

are like him

and that we can command our own future

he says in verse 16 the spirit itself

beareth witness with our spirit that we

are the children of God and if children

then heirs of God and joint-heirs

with Christ I think that's an important

thing to understand is that Christ is

not just our Savior but he is our

brother and our advocate and so he is

automatically an heir to everything

because he was perfect and for what he

did but he wants to bring all of us

along with him and so he is not just you

know this is how I see it

and anyway is of course he's my

Savior and I worship Him but he is also

my brother and loves me in that sense

that he wants me to come in and be a

joint heir with him to have everything

along with him that is a different

aspect to the relationship that we have

with the Savior than just God and man or

God and woman he wants us to have

everything that he has and we get that

through obedience to the law as best

that we can and through the atonement

and the sacrifice that Jesus made and

down in verse 24 he makes another

important point I think and that is

about hope remember Paul later on is

gonna bring a lot of this together here

in some of the other letters about faith

hope and charity write something that we

also learn about from Mormon and Moroni

and perhaps elsewhere as well I think

that they actually had the same source

is my guess I think that Paul is going

to be pulling with faith hope and

charity from an ancient source that

Mormon is pulling from also but here he

talks about hope just briefly

he says for we are saved by hope how can

we be saved by hope but hope that is

seen is not hope for what a man seeth

why doth he yet hope for so in other

words hope is something that we don't

have and we can't see it it's not

evident to us today it is something that

we desire and something that we are

chasing which is to be a joint heir with

him and it is the faith that we would

have in the atonement in the sacrifice

and in the resurrection that would

produce the hope right so that is a I

believe it's I call it an attribute of

progression I think that it is the faith

that we have in Jesus Christ produces

hope it produces an idea of where we can

go and that actually that faith and hope

then will produce charity that produces

the love of God that we try to have

inside of us and then over in chapter 9

here now and by the way as I'm going

through here I'm reading the King James

Version here I this has come up several

times about whether or not looking at

another translation of the Bible it

might be a good thing some people have

asked that question to me actually quite

a bit I would recommend it I think that

you know I know that the

Brethren use other translations of time

they've quoted other translations from

the pulpit and it's not something

we're necessarily we want to just use

another translation and it's important

that as church members together that we

have the same version that we can quote

and talk about and be on the same page

so therefore in class we can all

reference the same scriptures I think

that's kind of important not to mention

the fact that the language of the

Doctrine and Covenants and of the Book

of Mormon are in a King James

Version type of English and so I think

that's important for us to keep as an

anchor but I'll tell you what I do is

I'll go through and I will now read I

used to just rely on the NRSV is what I

did n RSV and now I also use Thomas

Wayment’s translation for Latter day

Saints which is sold at Deseret book

and online on Amazon etc what I'll do is

I actually go through and I read that

and then I come back to the King James

Version and I mark up those scriptures

once I've read that and the reason is is

because the Pauline letters are very

difficult to understand and that's why I

think we don't delve into it and so this

is a way for us to get in a little bit

easier into these letters to understand

them a little bit better there is a lot

of information and biblical scholarship

and additional texts that have been

found talking about actual Greek texts

from the New Testament that are

incorporated into these newer versions

these newer translations so some may

think well if I'm using this translation

it's not as spiritual or it's not right

and that that is not true it's just not


now I would not go away from the King

James Version completely but I would

highly recommend that you read first

these if you're following come follow me

go through and read another version the

ESV or the NRSV or Thomas Wayment’s is

great it's a great Study Bible also or

he'll give a lot of footnotes at the end

of each book and an intro into

each one of the letters and so you get a

little bit of more information about a

little more context about these letters

but you'll understand them better you're

going to understand it better with

language that is a little bit more of

what you use every day and so I

would recommend it to do that and then

go back to your King James Version and

mark it up it gives you a better idea in

mind of what is going on and then you

can go to church with your King James

Version and use that having that

background in your mind of what's

happening here because it's very

difficult to understand a lot of this

just my two cents on this so here in

chapter 9 Paul starts to go into the

difference between well basically what

Israel is and how those that are of

Israel are not necessarily all of Israel

in other words Israel is then not just

a lineage or it's the elect of God might

be a better way to determined and so he

says here for example in verse four who

are Israelites to whom pertaineth the

adoption and the glory and the covenants

and the giving of the law and the

service of God and the promises and down

in verse six for they are not all Israel

which are of Israel right so there's an

idea there it's an idea and it is a

group that are the elect of God those

that are going to follow the Covenant

including the new and everlasting

covenant that Paul is bringing to both

Jew and Gentile and he explains it this

way down in verses 31 and 32 but

Israel which followed after the law of

righteousness hath not attained to the

law of righteousness right so they have

fallen short of it again I've been to

die in the priests of Noah right there

same thing they claimed they followed

the law but you can't just follow the

law it never is going to work you have

to have something that you're going to

look forward to you have to have the

healing in the grace of the law over the

law covering that otherwise if

it doesn't have that umbrella there it

doesn't have that blanket of grace

that's going to be over the law it's

going to eat itself it's going to it's

going to disintegrate and it says here

in 31 but Israel which followed after

the law of righteousness hath not

attained to the law of righteousness

wherefore because they sought it not by

faith but as it were by the works of the

law for they stumbled at that

stumbling-stone so here the stumbling

stone is a lack of faith faith in what

faith in the Savior faith in God who

would come down to earth take on the

sins of the world take on a body die and

be resurrected to open up the way for

all of us so without the faith in that


and in that mercy the law on its own

can't do anything you can't get there by

merit it won't happen and so the law

becomes on its own without faith in the

Savior the law on its own simply becomes

a master over a slave and a master

over slave in death death through sin

and death through not having a future or

the tree of knowledge of good and evil

without the Tree of Life to move forward

- and so Paul follows this up over in

chapter 10 verse 4 with Christ being the

answer to the law see the law has to

have an answer if there's no answer it

has nowhere to go that's why it's called

dead on its own he says in verse 4 for

Christ is the end of the law for

righteousness to everyone that believeth

so it's conditional it is conditional

for everyone that believeth

but for Christ is the end of the law so

he is the answer so there is an end to

it or in other words it is capped with

Christ it has that looking forward you

have to have that in the law as we look

today not at the law of Moses but if we

as we look at the commandments there has

to be an answer to the commandments

because the commandments on their own

we're going to fall short every single

day so what is the answer to that

because without Christ the answer is

death both spiritually and physically

but with Christ there is an answer to

the commandments and that is hey you're

going to use this manual to try and grow

if you choose to you don't have to it's

completely up to you if you have

been given the commandments and you've

been you've felt the spirit and you know

the truth then you have opportunity and

you can try to grow and to become

something more and you can utilize that

hope through faith but you're not going

to be able to follow it perfectly and

since you can't follow it perfectly

there's an answer to that and that

answer is Christ and it's kind of like

birds gonna kind of pull you along here

you're going to struggle but we're going

to pull you along I'm thinking I'm

saying when I say we I'm talking about

Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ they're

going to kind of pull us along there as

we as we make our way through the

commandments and try to grow and become

something better and there's an

important point that Paul makes here

that I've discovered in the scriptures

and it has to do with faith that he in

in verse 17 it's very short he says so

then faith cometh by hearing so he's

talking about having this faith gaining

this faith so that you can believe in

the answer to the law so there is

something beyond death and sin again so

then faith cometh by hearing and hearing

by the Word of God so the plan is there

are prophets they're going to bring the

Word of God and typically it's done

dispensational II because everything

falls apart the second law of

thermodynamics everything runs downhill

everything disintegrates rusts becomes

corrupted and so a new dispensation is

brought in things are built up the

fullness of the priesthood the

ordinances are given we try to preach

that and have everybody follow that and

make sure that that the truth is put out

there and then the world caves in on it

eventually over time perhaps quickly and

sometimes takes a little bit longer but

it has always caved in and so this last

time it's with Joseph Smith and the Word

of God is brought to us the fullness of

the priesthood the fullness of the

ordinances and that is how we gain faith

is through that

and through that truth a lot of times we

think when I say I've learned something

in the scriptures about this we think

oftentimes that faith comes before

knowledge and that is not true

a greater knowledge a more perfect

knowledge can come through faith but

knowledge precedes faith it has to the

Word of God comes to us and then we

plant that seed as Alma says and that

see by the way it's not faith that seed

is the word of God it is knowledge and

so the faith that we put into it is

nurturing that seed so that that can

grow but the seed has to be there first

that's the Word of God that's the

knowledge about things you need to know

who God is and that he had a is perfect

and have some idea of Jesus Christ

before you can put faith in Him you have

to know about the resurrection you have

to know about his attributes you have to

know about Gethsemane you can't have

faith in something you don't know about

so knowledge comes first and Bruce our

McConkie says the same thing knowledge

comes first

faith is applied to that and then that

knowledge can grow so the seed is placed

we nurture the seed which is knowledge

and then that knowledge can grow and

it being starts to bear fruit eventually

but I think that's an important concept

with faith to understand and how the

plan of salvation works we can

understand maybe our testimonies a

little bit more that way and understand

our faith a little bit more that way and

then lastly here in chapter 11 Paul

introduces himself as a Benjamite that

is he's from the tribe of Benjamin he

says this right in verse 1 I say then

hath God cast away his people so this is

the Israel that has not followed the

law even God forbid for I also AM an

Israelite of the seed of Abraham of the

tribe of Benjamin now it would have been

very common for many of the Jews to be

of the tribe of Benjamin why well going

back to about the time of Isaiah so this

is a hundred plus years before the time

of Lehi the Assyrians conquered the

Northern Kingdom of Israel remember that

the two kingdoms were split apart

you had the southern kingdom which was

Judah and the northern kingdom which was

Israel or Ephraim or even Joseph

sometimes called Joseph and that

northern kingdom was hauled away a lot

of the people were hauled away put into

other places dispersed some of them

stayed some of them were maybe able to

come back and they intermixed with other

peoples that the Assyrians had brought

in and that's where we end up with the

Samaritans but that's also where the ten

tribes were so the lost ten tribes were

from that northern kingdom who were the

other two tribes Judah and Benjamin so

those geographic areas were very

close to each other the land that was

given to Judah and to Benjamin and so

those are the two tribes basically it's

probably about half the tribe of

Benjamin actually that was left over Ali

but it's Judah and Benjamin that

were left in the kingdom of Judah and of

course they were hauled away later on to

Babylon and then not all of them some

people remained but then they came

back after the exile from Babylon and

that's who is here in Judea at this time

now Paul remember is in Cilicia he is

not brought up in Jerusalem because a

lot of the Jews here were dispersed also

so his other conquerors came in this is

a very common thing to do they would

basically transplant a number of people

and say hey 100,000 of you you're going

up over here we're gonna build this

civilization over here we're gonna build

some ports over here it's by the ocean

we're gonna build this up and so that

was done quite a bit and that's why Paul

is in Cilicia

then lastly here in chapter 11 Paul

starts to go over Israel again he talks

about Israel and it's foreordained right

both those that actually are descendants

of Abraham Isaac

Jacob which would make you an Israelite

and those that are adopted in but he

talks about the timing and he this goes

back to our whole concept of covenant

that some people that sometimes are

first and sometimes people are last and

it's a matter of working together go

back a few episodes you can see where we

used the example of a Rubik's Cube we're

all given opportunities to help each

other through covenant some of us have

the knowledge of the gospel and so what

we call Ephraim right now which would be

in a sense kind of like the US or the

West that has mostly the gospel we're

bringing this out to the world that's

our job in this in this time before it

was the job of the Israelites and in the

Jews but he talks about the fullness of

the time of the Gentiles this is what he

says in verse 25 for I would not

brethren that she should be ignorant of

this mystery lest he should be wise in

your own conceits that blindness in part

has happened to Israel until the

fullness of the Gentiles be come in so

in this grand plan that the Lord has

there is timing and there is a time for

the fullness of the Gentiles which is

right now and where the Gentiles are

taking the gospel to the world it has

gone to the Gentiles at this time first

to the nations which is mostly the West

and it's our job to bring the gospel to

the world and we can see some of the

covenants that are a little bit closer

together such as Ephraim and Manasseh

where Ephraim would be Europeans that

are taking the gospel to Manasseh which

would be Latin America it is the two

brothers of Joseph the sons of joseph

Ephraim and Manasseh and that covenant

together that they have and where all of

the prophecies of the Book of Mormon

that talk about the Gentiles talk about

this exact thing that the Gentiles that

Ephraim will be bringing the gospel to

their seed to their descendants to

Manasseh and so all of us have a need

for help and that's help amongst each

other and then ultimately help from God

and that is His grace that we have to

have and he ends with this in Chapter 11

with this concept that I think is really

important he says here in verse 32 for

God hath concluded them all in unbelief

that he might have mercy upon all well

why would he want to create a situation

where he has to have mercy well because

that's how it works we have to go

through sin so that we can have a broken

heart and a contrite spirit so that we

can have faith and hope so that we can

rely upon His mercy and His grace we are

always indebted we can never earn our

way back up to be at an equally

equilibrium with God that would make no

sense we are always in a position where

we are eternally indebted to God that's

part of love and that's part of covenant

and that's what grace is that's why we

worship God and he finishes here in

verse 33 all the depth of the riches

both of the wisdom and knowledge of God

so we're saying look the plan is beyond

what we can really grasp even just

grasping little pieces of this and

understanding it for me is just it's a

huge solidify of my testimony in

understanding how this all works Paul

also here has gone over something

similar to what we get in Jacob chapter

5 with a grafting in of the wild

branches into the olive trees you have a

net the natural branches which are

Israel and you have the wild olive

branches which are the Gentiles and the

rest of the world and they have to be

mixed together you have to do it this

way there has to be a mixture one

helping the other and then the other

helping the former and ultimately

us working our way to God and God

working his way down to us how

unsearchable are his judgments and his

ways past finding out the Lord has a

plan for all of us we all fit into it

and Paul here by extending the gospel to

the nation's to the Gentiles is showing

how we all play out


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