Our culture has shifted so quickly that it's hard to recognize our institutions from just 15 years ago. Men can be women, women can be men, and reality seems to be getting sucked into a black hole. One of our biggest problems is education, which appears to have changed its purpose from teaching skills to teaching wokeness.
Bruce Porter and Greg Matsen discuss the absurdity of the new ideologies that fight against reason and eternal truths.
well just another great intellectual and doctrinal conversation with my friend Bruce Porter about the age of absurdity
that we live in we have entered the upside down Bruce and I are doing a cruise in November the no November 9th
to 16th called navigating the philosophies of men in this trip we prepare you and your family against a
woke world a world that seems to be taking so much of an effect on many members of the church we help you become
aware of what is going on contrast that with the Eternal principles of the
Gospel of Jesus Christ show you the real difference which just offers so much Clarity and then give you the tools and
strategies you need to move forward I'm very excited about this trip would really love to see you there go to Quick
media.com go up at the top to trips and events and scroll down to navigating the
philosophies of men here we go
[Music]
all right welcome to Quick show my name is Greg Matson and I am your host in this episode we have brought back my good friend Bruce Porter to talk about
the age of absurdity Bruce welcome back to the show thank you Greg it's U it's
good to be here I'm I'm looking forward to this discussion so well me too so we are living in an age of absurdity you
had written an article you have several of them on on similar topics here but
You' had written an article and and you kind of used use the anchor for it that you know of of Alice in Wonderland and
and being in a in in a completely different world of really Madness as the chesar catch says we're living we're
we're Alice right now in Wonderland AR we yeah there's there's no question about it things things are just crazy
they're almost I feel like they're upside down from what reality actually is
so yeah so you know couple things I want to bring up in that in that article that you had written
um first I'm I'm just going to give a a quote that you put in here from chapter 4 and Allison Wonderland it's when I
used to read fairy tales I fancied that kind of thing never happened and now here I am in the middle
of one and and and in so many ways ju just going through the last even
just 15 years of of what has happened in this massive shift and and um a a new a new
Corruption of ident enti for individuals and a a a new uh social movement that
that seems to um not grapple with reality at all right this is these are
very uh philosophical undercurrents that that work through this like postmodernism don't like reality anyway
that this is part of what is pushing this to give us no objective truth to
throw off the shackles of any kind of order that in our sexuality in our identity in our social
structure um what what do we do about this you
know that's a good question um I I've I was I've been thinking lately about it and I think age has a lot to do with it
and I I think parents have a lot to do with it also uh within a certain age
group because the this this this fake reality when you have to have a job or
in order to support a family that fake reality goes out the window but it comes back to the education of the
youth um and that's that's that's at least that's my opinion that it's what
we're allowing the youth how we're allowing the youth to be educated and what
philosophies with this woke culture this cancel culture it's it's as it's as though no one has a right to offend
anybody else well it's just the opposite you don't have a right not to
be offended no one has the right not to be offended that that that's reality is
we we should expect it because no one has a right not to be offended and reality and and education and
matureness is knowing how to deal with those offenses or even to if we even
should take offense to these different things something that really became popular um
just you know I want to say it started before this but you know let's say maybe 10 15 years ago again is is this culture
in Academia of uh that that that pushed this idea of
microaggressions and and so the microaggressions are you're not really being aggressive so they they curb it
right because you're not intending to be aggressive but you're making this microaggression which is you're
triggering the emotions of individuals and therefore you need to
change your behavior because of that triggering right so we we've uh Michelle Fuko goes
over this in in Madness uh was it Madness in Civilization he's he talks about the fools or or the madness the
Mad ones actually turning Society on its head and he kind of gives a little bit
of a formula to do it and we're living that today yeah you know it's it's where where we we're we're
becoming um a society of it's like Marty or Carnival and except it's every day
and and it's um he he talks about how the fringes and using this madness is
really needs to be mainstreamed and then accepted you know
tolerated and then accepted and then and then adhered to and we're going right down that path I mean we we seem to be
so easily moved as a society from the for from these
philosophies and these teachings and I think it's because all of the institutions have
bought into it yeah I I was raised in a different era obviously but I was taught if I can use
the term or the word sin I was taught that it was a greater sin to take offense than it was even to give
offense and as I've looked at life around me I've realized that 99% of all
the emotional pain um and the anger that people have is because somebody's exercising their
free agency of which you have no control there's no control at all over somebody
else's free agency so we're getting upset and and it's what this this turning society and turning culture on
its head we're assuming that no one has a right to offend me when it's really the
other way around we have no right to take offense at what anybody else says because of that
agency I how do we get that it's that's such a turn a gen you know I don't know if it's
generational or or you know it's but but that is to me it's a matter of a formula
of saying how do we change civilization and you have philosophers and activists and others uh a lot of academics who
bought into this that that take a little bit of a formula of moving into that
tolerance getting to acceptance moving everything into mainstream and the way that you change that Society then is
to because the microaggressions only apply to the new
morality they don't apply to the old morality I if I'm adhering to Traditional Values and Christian values
I'm not allowed to be triggered you know the it's like the uh
um the uh what what is it the The Opening Ceremonies for the Olympics yeah
and and they have the uh the drag show and and and others that were you know
performing and and creating a stage of the last supper right and and this is the opening
ceremonies of of of the Olympics and all the push back is oh you're so offended
you know and you know the Christians are so offended by this that's ridiculous and you must be homophobic or whatever
else it might be so you're not allowed to be triggered or or have that emotional response if it's Traditional
Values it's only the other way around and that's a great tool and a great way to move a civilization to different
values and and and to different uh um a different morality I've seen several
Latter-Day Saints do the same thing and say no you can't you can't be offended by this this is just art and its
expression and and uh and if you are then you're homophobic yeah and the
thing is if you turn it around on them if you're if if if U if you say
something about what they're doing then they get offend Ed and say you don't have a right to offend me but yet they
they have a right to offend the Traditional Values if you if you want to look at it that way they believe that
they have a right to offend Traditional Values where we have no right to offend
this this this new morality if we can call it that new morality new morality is just old immorality is what they used
to say yeah yeah exactly it's I've I've often thought about this though in this
battle um it does always try to come from a position of morality yeah right
we we are not naturally um disposed to uh you know go grab onto something that
we think is evil right and so you have to lead with the idea of love and tolerance as an
example and empathy right it's like if you lead with that then there must be a moral virtue here that I'm adhering to
yeah and therefore I can grab on to everything that's associated with that or is is being being associated with
with that
um you have you know the the things that we were talking about just there are things about belief right you have
religion we were just talking about things that you have a different world view on but it goes well beyond that now
as an example we talked about reality it goes all the way into reality for example biological
sex and and and the way things are being changed you're going to have in the Olympics again you a couple days here
you're going to have men that are pounding on in a boxing
match on women and and that's where We've Ended up at right and this is supposed to be
normal this is supposed to be okay and you know that the ratings are
going to go off the charts for sure maybe that's what they want I don't know but it's uh um the going down all the
way to a core of of absolute reality XY chromosomes and xx chromosomes
we're trying to change everything in in in the spirit of Liberation in the
spirit of Tolerance right that to me is an
absolute formula for for the destruction of any civilization it is when you when you're
sub you know this this whole idea of Truth is it an objective truth or is a subjective truth if it's subjective then
there is no real truth I mean I mean that's that's what people that's what people want is no absolute truth so that
they can create their own their own truths and um that's gone so far that
that desire for a subjective truth so that you can manipulate truth or you can manipulate what you want truth to be has
gone into that physical world into the biological world and and as you're mentioning into into the Olympics where
men can compete with women because there is no absolute truth there is no
definition of truth it's just subjective so you can say a man can say I'm a woman therefore I can I can compete against a
woman that's that's that's coming back to the the loss of a of an absolute
truth or an objective truth a reality it's a loss of reality so it's it's
going to happen and it's going to keep happening as long as it's taking place in the schools in in the elementary and
Junior High and the high school middle schools so we we ought to expect that
and I don't think that people realize and you go back to parents here I don't think people realize just how much this
has infiltrated the K to 12 space yeah it it it is everywhere it is in it is in
posters throughout the classrooms it is in the lessons it is in the questions
it's in their math questions it's everywhere where there's just constantly being drip drip drip this this this idea
of and I'm going to call it liberation uh that that uh changes reality that
that puts them in a place that I believe all of this is antithetical to the gospel it's antithetical to the doctrine
of Christ it is the second the second you have subjective morality or the
absence of absolute moralities then then you've got a problem the and I don't
know why we haven't I don't know why parents haven't done something I've already talked to to uh uh firms law
firms and things about it but but parents the second a second of school a
school board uh a teacher teaches a morality that's
contrary to my belief or my scripture or anybody else's the second they teach IM
morality that's contrary to my scripture they have crossed the line between the separation of church and state and
they're now teaching a state religion they're teaching State morals
and and that if if I were to go into a classroom and say okay we're going to just talk about God today and we're
going to teach God boy i' I'd be thrown in I'd Pro probably be thrown in jail but for them to come in and say okay
we're going to talk that there are no absolute morals we're going to talk about a morality that's contrary to your
religious belief that's contrary to your scriptures to your standards of religion
they are they are creating a state religion they're Crea and they've crossed that line now the attorneys have
told me that if you can record that a parent can go to his and there are there are law firms out there that will even
take it on that if you can prove that they're teaching morality or have a recording that a student in a classroom
is being taught a different moral than what they believe in then that that is grounds for some some uh um pretty
strong restraints within that school district because they've crossed that line between the church church and state
and that's that's where it's happening and we're allowing it to happen we're allowing that that that line Crossing
and and that separation yeah I we are allowing it and
it's um I I again I I just I it's no wonder that for example
homeschooling is exploding right the market there is just exploding because
there there something will happen with a family at school and all of a sudden
they're like oh th this this is too far this is this is one step too far I'm not
leaving my kids here and and it's it really is a I I think about the American education system right now it is
really it is one of the most corrupted systems and institutions in all of the
United States and it started in the universities in the early 20th century
and and and has now commented into fullblown uh uh Liberation and wokeism
and throughout the universities even Taps into BYU it Taps into everywhere yeah but it gets into the k to2 space
from those that are taught education in the universities and and and then bring it down into their jobs and into the
administration of of uh of the schools and the districts and here we have a
system then in the United States where we are putting putting in a your
your children from the time they're four or five years old and if you go to daycare because that's also tapped there
yeah but you you know let's just say kindergarten from then until they are 22 to 24 or or going into graduate school
26 28 years old you're you're giving them 23 years of
indoctrination to one degree or another now you might find Charter Schools and you might find other places where those
that that indoctrination is reduced but for the most part most kids
are being indoctrinated and I think it's an ingenious way for those that want this new morality right to to get to the
new generation they have complete access to the kids to the point where now
they're trying to fight oftentimes about not notifying the parents about what they're teaching about they don't they
want to close it up Co changed that a little bit parents started seeing on zoom and and and you what was actually
being taught in some of these classes and it scared the heck out of them but
you know the the the wool was pulled off their eyes a little bit but that is happening everywhere and I I don't know
what we can do about that at this point I mean it it require if we're going to keep the same system you have to you
have to come in and and somehow eliminate this and I don't know how you
do that where it's it's just so far entrenched it is psych psychologists say that a
person's World viw whatever that worldview is going to be is generally set by the age of
13 that if they're going to have a spiritual worldview or a Biblical worldview or a secular worldview that's
set by usually by the age of by the age of 13 and that's Hitler even understood
that he said he who teaches he who controls the youth controls the future and then he then he made the statement
also I think it was in 1930 something 39 he made the statement that if the if the
older generation I.E the parents if the parents don't like what we're doing then we will take their
children from them and rear them as needful and that's exactly what our
school system is doing uh you don't have to notify the parents the parents have no control they have no control over the
or over the moral teachings of their children which is religious morality the big question is do morals come from
religion or do this does it come from the state as soon as religious sins
become civil rights religious Freedom's lost You've Lost That religious freedom and that's what the state is
doing uh by teaching State morals and making immorality civil rights if you
want to use that I'm not saying that one is more immoral than another but but but
the only way to control the next generation is to control the school boards and what's being taught with
within within the this this Rising generation as you look in scripture it's always the rising generation that makes
the change if you go to um Joshua in the Old Testament those opening chapters in
Joshua it keeps saying over and over again there rose up a generation that knew not the Lord and that's where the
problems began There Rose up a generation and they weren't being taught they rose up a generation that knew not the lord well the parents aren't
teaching their children they're allowing the state to teach their children the morals and the values that the state
wants them to have and so they're going to become our leaders in the next two generations Next Generation so we've got
a problem and and how to figure how to fix it is going to be the big issue but
the only way I can see to fix it is take control over the or you know have control sane people have control over
the schools you know uh speaking of that it
used to you know when I was growing up and I was in in elementary school my mom would go to the PTA meetings yeah you
know every they had them like every week she would go there like on a Thursday I think it was and she'd go to the PTA meetings they they they they met in the
it wasn't really a gymnasium in K 12 but it was the the cafeteria area right and
theyd go in and they met every week and she would be there but of course she was a stay-at-home mom until a little bit
later and and so you know that's another thing I think about I me we've turned to society and I you know everyone hey you
choose what you want to do that's fine right I believe in that you do what you want to do but when you look at a
society where we have taken mothers and move them out into the
workforce there is no way through the law of numbers that you are not going to have less oversight on
school right it's impossible and so that that is I think
part of the change the other change would be where mothers just can't do it there's there there are so many single
mothers now that are raising kids without a father in the home and and how do you
how do you keep up with everything right and so the societal changes to the family I think have direct repercussions
with those kids and education to the point that we use
school as more of a daycare to some degree right we use School more of a as
a crutch of well they'll teach them they'll they'll help them they can teach them their morals and their standards
and and Etc it's it's happening all over I mean when when um Hillary Clinton's
book came out it takes a village it's what it's what she was really I mean it's what they're saying is is it really
takes a government it takes a it takes your your your uh it takes government control to
really teach your children the way they that they want them to be taught you
know that's going right back to the Hitler idea um and that's and that's what's happening because the family is
no longer the one in control of Education they should be they should be not only be in control of education but
they ought to be in control of the morals that their children are taught that the schools are coming in and saying that you parents can't even have
control over what your children are taught you can't come in here and uh you're a domestic terrorist if you want
to control what your children are taught and so now they can teach morality to
your 5-year-old in in in kindergarten uh they can teach the morality that they want them to have in
the future and that shouldn't be going on that ought to that ought to be morality is an aspect of Parental
discretion and personal religion it's not the schools and the schools cannot
be teaching morality they teach ethics within business but they should not be teaching morality because the second the
second they teach anything that's contrary to My Religion they've crossed the line and establish an estate
religion yeah uh I and that it's been such a slippery
slope with that and all the changes in society have brought us more more to that point but but you know we're also
at a point where again and and and you know people every you know I I don't want people to think I hate Academia but
I I have a hate a LoveHate relationship I will say that but it's but there
you also have then the teachers and the counselors that are in school and and
they're they're like wait a minute we're the ones who are educated we're the ones who have been
told how to deal with the counseling of the emotional well-being of the kids you know nothing about this parent right you
should be letting us speak to them and and and taking we should take priority over this with the kids we've been
educated we have this information we know the psychology behind it we know
the studies you know we know all of these things and so it just gives another reason to give into let's call
it Authority for the parents to to you have you have what now what is called social
emotional learning and they've used this in a way that it's almost a
therapeutic uh type of a um a principle in in the K to 12 space that says this
exact thing and you'll see this in in most of the schools today where they're using social emotional learning seal
right in a way that says we are going to take responsibility for the Social and
emotional learning of your kids and and what the problem is is that
the math and the English and the social studies and everything else gets dropped
lower and lower and lower and what gets raised is these other Fountains of
knowledge that are counseling and and uh a uh a
new morality right and how to be an activist even if you go to the ethnic
studies curriculum in California and Illinois it's it's unbelievably blatant
they are teaching the kids how to be activists so it's it's not getting
something that's getting better right it's something that's getting worse and there are more and
more Avenues one more thing is they've got now they're starting to use phones and so kids will have phones with
apps on them that tell them how are you feeling today how are you doing right and they start collecting
all the data from all the kids and what's going on and then they build a track record and two years later they
bring the kid the parents in for a counseling session they say no look look at the tracking we have on your
kid look what look what's happening with your kid you are not taking care of them
yeah right or whatever it might be it it's I I am I am turning Bruce very
quickly against our education system with what is going on well yeah you have
to they're not educating they're not teaching math and they're not teaching science they're teaching they're they're
trying to separate children from their parents so they have control over the next Generation that's and I feel the
same way you do public school is nothing more than than them trying to establish their
moralities and their uh ideas and their subjective truths in order to separate
or destroy just destroy the family life this whole concept of being able to
teach children from K through 12 you know you can you can teach a child that
cannibalism is nothing more than a than a menu choice if you have them long enough from
K through 12 you can teach a child anything you want to teach him now that doesn't mean that cannibalism is is is
correct or or or morally right to be eating human to be eating humans but you
take a child from K through2 and teach them that it's just a menu choice and that's what we're doing with sexuality
with immorality it's just a menu choice you know sexual activity is is now a
recreation and that's about it and so you get children from K through 12 and you can teach them anything you want to
teach them and but but morality is should be left to the to the family and the home but in what they're doing with
these apps uh that you're talking about um you know empty that we we learned in
Scripture that empty are the animals of a happy people um and you look at the Book of
Mormon for example um there's only one good chapter in The Book of Mormon and that's fourth Nephi and and so people
only write in their in their journals when things are going bad and that's just that's just the common nature so in
these apps when these questions are coming to these children they only write when things are going bad and then they
use those apps to talk to their parents because nobody when things are all right
nobody cares everything's good you don't write about these things in your Journal you don't when when everything's all right so this whole fra that phrase
empty are the animals of a happy people all we have is all we have is problem and so they can use these to try and
separate the parents from the children and say like you said we're the educated ones we're the experts so leave the
education of your children to us you know we know better than you do and here's some certain things and I mean I
can go on and on but I better stop you know one another thing I I really my
wife hates this word but grapple with because it's been used so many times but
it's uh what but here let me play The Devil's
Advocate with you Bruce for a second here it's but the church says we are an education people we need to be more and
more educated we are I mean we we are one of the most educated sections of all the United States you know our
demographics of the of the United States we're supposed to find education we're supposed to have our kids go to higher
education if at all possible right what do you what do you say to that
yeah but your your question is education in what what are you being educated for you know I I sometimes question where
does your good come from you know I talk to people who've left the church and and
uh often and I'll just say well the good that you have or the good that you think you have where did it come from what
where did that good come from uh the doctrine covenants in section I believe it's section 88 talks about education
you need to learn history you need to learn geology you need to learn all these different things but then it says at the end of that you learn that so you
can be better prep prepared to teach the gospel so what what educ what are we learning that can help us better be
better prepared for reality that that that's what it comes down to are we being prepared are we looking for an
education that's going to assist us in In Living Through mortality that's
that's what an endowment of power is an endowment of power is being able to handle the problems of of of mortality
you know the life the death the disease the the issues the problems uh that we that we have in Morality evil
where does it come from how to control it these are things that give us an endowment of power and our education
ought to be working towards establishing in and this is my opinion I I take scripture too seriously
but establishing a relationship with God we can't take this life seriously until we take the next life
seriously we can't know what we should be doing here unless we know what our potentials and opportunities are in the
next life and that's what we're not teaching we're just we're we're just saying well life is supposed to be fun
you're supposed to do whatever you want whatever you feel whatever emotion you have uh but that's not reality and the
education that we need to have is in my opinion is more of a Eternal education
what's what's going to assist me not just in this life but in the next life
too yeah I uh I
I it's a different framework isn't it I mean it's just a different framework that does not exist in the state it's
just it's just not there and in so many ways you know and I know we don't want
to fully look at it this way as this this uh US versus them kind of a thing
but the reason in the United States we have so many checks and balances on the
government is because absolute power corrupts absolutely right it's just that that's
regardless that's just human nature and so when we give more and more power to the state whether it's an
education or anything else we are reducing the power of religion and we're
reducing the power of Family Y it's just and that is why the state
naturally as it as it naturally wants to gather more and more power
it naturally will fight against the family right it naturally will fight
against religion because they're competition yeah and and whether that's
conscious or unconscious it's it's a Guist right it's it's something that is
going to be there uh all the time um I wanted to go back just a second here I
love what you did with this uh um is it uh Gort who who says this it
says I think therefore I am yes I think it was so yeah and and and you change it to this idea again of this postmodern
relative truth you you change it to uh therefore I am what I
think yeah and and that is what it is it's it's and that is so much this idea
of Liberation that is being pushed everywhere they they don't always use that word but it's it's it's I'm going
to liberate myself from religion I'm going to liberate myself from the order of God I'm going to liberate myself from
marriage I'm going to liberate myself from the order of the family and and
it's and or an order that actually does build up civilization and I'm going to I'm going
to liberate myself sexually from any of these crazy you know strict uh uh social
norms that that are in place and it's basically says you know uh Michelle Fuko
again has has a I'm going to quote something that is just absolutely insane and people need to realize this the
Michelle FICO is the number one cited academic in all the universities in the in the United States okay he's a
postmodernist died in the 80s and uh one of the three I would say
most influential people in our culture today we're living in his world and he says
um the spirit or he he says the soul the
soul is the prison of the
body right the soul is the prison of the body and it's the exact opposite of put
off the natural man right right it's the exact opposite and that's that's it
there and and what I what I try to do with the podcast and we talk about these philosophies of men all the time is look
these things that are being taught and and the way that the culture is moving they
are intentionally
Antichrist yeah right they they are intentionally this isn't some mistake
this isn't all they're just trying to be good people the a lot of the followers are that way but the people that start
these things and start the ideas and and and create the momentum and
organize it is intentionally and anti-am Antichrist and
anti-religion yeah I mean um it's KL Marx I mean said that religion is the
opiate of the people you know you know it's it's basically saying the same thing that
that religion is and a belief in God is is destructive to the to the soul or the
psyche of mankind the Ancients and I study a lot of ancient you know scripture ancient documents and things
but the Ancients believe that reality existed only only in the realm of the Sacred only in the realm of God I mean
that's that's where reality is you know what's what's 70 years can can compared to 70 billion years and counting you
know where's that where's the reality the reality is not here and so we just we focus on on things that we enjoy
which you which you rightly mentioned is the natural man the opposite of what king Benjamin's trying to teach the
natural man is an enemy of God and always will be unless he unless he puts
off that natural man and begins thinking about something in the next life we can't take this life seriously until we
take the next life seriously yeah and that's that's a again
that's such a great framework to to to follow there um he also brought up something else
that is very interesting to me I think I brought this up in one or two other podcasts but there in in a lot of the
let's call them horror movies the monster movies whatever they are that that that we're seeing these days we've
moved from Dracula and Frankenstein and and some of these and
godz you know there's some Godzilla and other things there but but we've moved more into a realm of zombie yeah and and
it's fascinating to me because it really is you think about well well there art influence culture does culture influence
art I think this is culture to Art in in this instance and and it's
you know a zombie the zombie apocalypse is there is some reality to this right
it's it's uh a zombie is infected by some type of
virus right that's that's what it is they're infected by a virus and then they turn and they immediately go and
they infect try and infect everybody else yeah right as an example right some of these
philosophies of men that we' talked about anti-racism wokeism all of these things Nazism even you know all these
things are they are they they are viruses and if you read a lot of the uh
the papers the academic papers if you really want to go do it I've done it quite a bit on individuals that try and
push these types of things um they will specific jacqu der
for example postmodernist right they will specifically talk about wokeism and its principles as a
virus and inherent in that Doctrine it's kind of like I was saying they're making the kids activists inherent in the
doctrine of of of these of identitarianism and critical race Theory
and intersectionality all these things that were being spoonfed these days inherent in that is
activism it's like you can't you know ibram kendi for example example who's the big you know the poster child for
anti-racism he will say it's not enough not to be racist you have to advocate for
anti-racism and of course what he's really saying is you need to be racist on the other side right and and uh um
you need to use marxian means to accomplish this and get rid of the Constitution which is what he says and
and so it's it's the same thing right the these are mind
viruses um Elon Musk calls it the the woke mind virus it's but that's that's
what it is right it is a virus they intentionally build it as a virus jacqu der da one of the postmodernists he said
late in his career when he was at uccii UC Irvine he said I have dedicated my whole life to making language a
virus and um and so that's what we see so this zombie apocalypse it's no wonder
we see that because whether consciously or unconsciously you're going to pick up
I think on on these undercurrents of this change in our culture from these philosophies and we're creating we're
creating me mental zombies in our schools that's what our K through2 is doing they're creating not just the
mental zombies they're creating the immorality they're creating subjective truths and then they're creating
activist that you can't you can't really you can't really be educated unless you're active ly against something and
it's it's a problem that I don't I don't know that we're going to get out of you know every every ancient C every ancient
culture if you go back in time a a culture or government or a nation or
Kingdom lasts lasts about 250 years it has a prime of about 250 years and then
and then they and then they they they go downhill very quickly and it's and I
look at it we know that there's entropy uh in the in the physical and the biological world there's entropy but
there's a spiritual entropy that takes place too and that spiritual entropy is
we see uh in the decline of almost every single nation there's a spiritual
entropy that takes place and we're we're there and is it going to change gosh the only way to change
entropy is to add or Infuse that entropy be it spiritual or be it biological or
physical is to infuse it with outside energy and I don't see that energy coming from the
masses yeah yeah that's that's certainly true you have
uh you know again just back to the education system real quick it's so much of this is this separating
the kids from their parents and and teaching something very
different I I I have had so many people contact me on the on the podcast talk
you know parents saying especially when they go to to college it's like they come home from
Thanksgiving their first year and they talk different they act different uh they they've got they've
got a new vocabulary it's and I think about this system that
we have again it's like okay so we're going to borrow money from the state go
into debt or the parents are going to take out a
second mortgage on their home and and pay for this
education and at 18 years old we're going to send these kids and
have them tutored and indoctrinated and educated by people that are simply
trying not everyone obviously but many who are simply trying to unravel what
you have done as a parent for 18 years yeah and you're paying for it too and
and you're paying for and you're you're you're sending them out
out of your home you're sending them and a lot of people will come back and say well gee Greg don't don't you think people need to have critical thinking
and be open to other other ideas and get out of the home and spread their wings sure sure I'm all for the critical
thinking side of but that's not what this is right this isn't a you don't go to a class on it's not like going to a
class on Marxism and you learn about Lenin and Stalin and Ma and what happened and everything that went on it
has nothing to do with that it is we are going to indoctrinate you yeah you know
it's like going to a uh a world religion course I took a world religion course at
BYU and and and going through all these different religions but then let's you know whatever it is Buddhism or let's
say Islam and then all of a sudden the teacher says now this is what you must
follow and if you don't you're a bad person right it it's it's it's it's not
just being taught it's it's a complete indoctrination and it's no wonder that that you know people what is it Mike Row
I think is name is mikro others are saying hey what are we doing why why
have we built a system where all of this money is going to these universities simply to
unravel what you have done for for 18 years
and you're sending the blind to follow the blind know I think about
BYU and I'm I look BYU I love BYU I support BYU there are some issues there
but I support BYU but I just think about there especially because I'm looking at okay you've got about 40,000 I think
students at University of uh at UVU in orm you've got another 30 plus thousand
at BYU and so you got these 70 plus thousand people that are between ages 18
and 24 that that is a never Neverland to
me that that is that is that is who are your examples that your everyday
examples right they're people that haven't gone out into the world yet they're people that haven't that you know most who don't even clean up their
room they they they're you know it I don't I I don't I I when you really stop
and think about it the system to me is completely broken
scho schools and teachers are teaching students and you brought it up
there what to think not how to think you know looking at things critically and
trying to understand things is one thing and that's and and a good education will make you do that because when you do
that you can listen to the other side you can accept the other side and the other point of view but we're being the
the youth today are being taught what to think not how to think and you can't you can't think un unless you can understand
and look at both sides and so our youth are being taught exactly what they
should think and and rebel against anything else any other opinion so we
get this woke generation this cancel culture because because it's not what they have
been taught it's not how they've been taught to think uh and we need to we need to teach people and youth how to
think not what to think you know I uh I don't know a
couple few months ago we we had a a discussion on
a a hierarchal structure that you'd put in place that that had Eternal law at the top as an example I'm not going to
hit everything here but you had Eternal law you had doct you know Eternal truths and doctrines and then principles and
then policies and kind of looking at this hierarchal structure it's just like a truth hierarchy and how do you see
what is going on here today h in comparison to this you know
in in in comparison to Eternal truths and doctrines in the
gospel well I I think it comes down that we've lost a standard um we're we're
using you can't be any smarter than the person you choose to believe and if you're choosing to believe a professor
or a teacher or social media you can't be any smarter than the person that
person you're choosing to believe and Rec counseled often in scripture is to trust not in the arm of
Flesh um and so the standard that we choose um is going to be is going to set
our our the parameters of our education and our knowledge and if we're not using
God's standard then we're using man's standard if you if you don't ex if you
can't believe in a God that you refuse to believe is my opinion you just you can't
believe in a God that you refuse to believe now we talk about well we believe in God but but I don't believe
that God's morality is the right morality so how can we believe in a God that sets the morality if we refuse to
believe the morality that he set and so I think the biggest problem is we've
lost that standard we've lost that standard of Truth we've lost the the standard that the that the com
Commandments set we've lost the the Eternal doctrines that pertain not to
this life but to the next life we've lost Eternal truths um about about uh uh the Eternal
nature of our spirit the longevity of of of of life after death we've lost uh
um other Concepts uh that we don't even talk about anymore uh such as no unclean
thing can dwell in the presence of God and God cannot deny himself there's things like that and so unless we get
back to a standard we have no standard and that's why subjective truths are
rising to the to the top of the uh of the milk bottle is because it's is
anything goes um morality Commandments are out it's it's all we're supposed to do is eat drink and be merry enjoy life
and whatever lifestyle and sexuality we want eat drink and be marry because tomorrow we're going to die and it and
as cor hor taught and that that's the end thereof and so you ought to you ought to enjoy it while you can and
that's not reality uh so you've you've talked about
politics and religion um quite a bit in the past and and and and bringing those together oftentimes I I just did
something and and you know I don't get that political on the podcast like I don't I don't talk I don't support a
candidate I don't support a party you know I don't get into politics in that nature I don't go over all the day-to-day stuff I talk about current
events because I'm interested in the culture right I focus on the culture but I have I had a lot of push back on the
last episode that I did it was on kamla Harris and and and how the lies on both sides you know are are are pervasive and
we don't really talk about the issues anymore it's all at homenum attacks and Etc and I had so many people push back
and say why you know you got involved in politics that's sad and and I think to myself well wait a minute here
so I I I I talk a lot about the intercurrence of
these things right I I I talk about the woke World quite a bit and that is very
political and I don't think that you
can I don't think that you can in a world that is has a current that is
going so strong a river current is just going so strong right now I don't think
that you can talk about religion today today without talking about political
issues I don't see how you can do that and you've you know been very forthright
in talking about how look The Book of Mormon is a very political
book is it aren't religion and politics naturally
combined they are historically they are always combined you can't i' it's what
I've noticed in today's culture especially here in the United States and it's elsewhere it's all over the world but but when religion drops to the
background when the spirituality drops to the background politics becomes your religion religion religion you people
should live for their religion they should live for what their religion offers the doctrines that they're going
to uh that they believe in um Jo in other words Joseph Smith they're looking
at it differently Joseph Smith there's one founding single founding doctrine that the Church of Jesus Christ of
latterday saints has founded on one single Doctrine upon which everything
else is built the church the organization of the church the priesthood even Christ himself in his
mission of coming down and teaching and dying and the atonement and the
resurrection everything is founded on one single doctrine that Joseph Smith gives us and that Doctrine is in Joseph
Smith's words God finding himself in the midst of these Spirits prepared a plan
whereby they could receive the same Glory that he has we call that the doctrine of
exaltation now whether we like it or not our politics should fall into that into that
concept if that's true if the doctrine of exaltation and this separates this separates the Church of Jesus Christ of
latterday saints from every other church that exists every other religion that exists out there is the doctrine of
exaltation now the question is if we know that's that doctrine of exaltation
is the work and glory of God then we have to ask oursel what does it mean to have an eye single to the glory of God
then the decisions that we make in our life and lifestyle the decisions we make
in in politics and the political candidates that we support does that
doctrine of exaltation or that Eye Single to the glory of God come into
play when we're choosing a candidate and or a party and their platform and their
political ideals and so can you separate religion from
politics you can do but should it be separated completely and that's what the book of Mormon's trying to say the Book
of Mormon has what I call deed restrictions to the promised land well those deed restrictions say
and from beginning to end from the you know almost the first chapter uh in as much as you shall keep my Commandments
you shall prosper in the land that's chapter two actually but all the way to the end of
Moroni the deed restrictions are connected to the political to the political venue also you know if you
don't worship as Moroni says if you're not going to worship the god of the land who is Jesus
Christ then the the Lord's protecting arm will be withdrawn and you'll receive
exactly what you want to receive even it talks about it at the end of mosiah when
the masses become so great that they choose evil then the protection is gone so is
religion connected to politics in the promised land it is without question and
if you're going to have an eye single to the glory of God that means your decisions politically should be looking at
anything that will support that doctrine of exaltation that concept of exaltation
Moroni puts it this way in chapter 7 of his book he says he says that any first
he says any person and then he says anything now that thing can be a law or a policy or a a
platform first he says any person and then anything that makes a person Believe In Christ and have more faith in
Christ he says you can know of an assurity that it comes from God and then he says also that if anything does
doesn't do that doesn't make you believe in Christ or have faith in Christ or
have faith in that work and glory of God and he says you can you can know of an assurity that it comes from the devil so
having an eye single to the glory of God should be first and foremost Even in our
political decisions even DNC 49 versus
15 16 and 17 it says that the he says that that
one man should a man should have one wife and the twain become one
flesh all this that the Earth might answer the ends of its creation so it's
saying I mean it's it's a terrible verse there that verse 16 it's saying that the Earth was created that a man and woman
should get married and why should they get married the next verse 17 so that
they can have children so that they can give birth to those spirits that were prepared before the foundation of the
world that's the whole purpose of creation Elma says that this whole life
is a probationary State as a time to repent which means to change your character repentance is the process of
changing character a time to repent and serve God so does our political choices
come into those concepts of having an eye single to the glory of God and the work of Glory of God it does in my
opinion and we need to keep that in mind and I I don't think we do we try and separate politics and religion complete
and think that politics and religion shouldn't have anything or any connection and I think that's that's
that's a wrong way to look at it yeah and I think also it's you know and the
official stance of the church is they try to stay neutral on most things not everything but they think there's a
threat to certain things you know you look back at prop in California and and especially their you know one of their
big topics is freedom of religion but the more and more the world
moves you know you may not be supporting a party you may not be supporting a candidate but the more and more the
world moves away from the doctrine of Christ and from order and Truth there
you're not going to have a choice as members or even as I think as the institution as the church in covering
these topics you know that are becoming very political I mean you know
identitarianism didn't used to be that political now it's everything it's everywhere and and so you have not you
know again not not anything over the top but you have you know what I call President Nelson's identity hierarchy he
comes out and says look just remember what your identity is and he says child of God child of the Covenant and disciple of Christ and everything else
comes down below that I it's very obvious to me that that is a response to
the identitarian movement and and and what's going on with our own identities and gender and and the breakdown of
truth and reality there and I think you're going to see that more and more because as this becomes more and more
prevalent then everything becomes political and and and you have no choice
but but to talk about things that are now political because there are going to
be two sides to these issues there there's two two things that I feel like
I ought to mention one is this Covenant path this Covenant of Abraham and the other um the other is
valiancy if if you go back in scripture and again I apologize for talking so much about scripture but I take
scripture pretty seriously um Abraham's given Covenant and in that Covenant of
Abraham it's chapter two of the book of Abraham starting about verse 10 11 9 10
and 11 in Chapter 2 of Abraham the Lord tells Abraham that the blessings of
Salvation and life eternal will come to All Nation all nations of the Earth because of his seed because of Abraham's
posterity and then it goes on to explain there's two types of posterity there's literal posterity and there's adopted
posterity in those three verses this is all talked about there and so there's literal posterity and adopted those
adopted are those the literal posterity if we want to look at it today in today's terms the literal posterity of
Abraham is is the Jewish Nation the Jewish people the adopted
posterity are those who have accepted the gospel or Christians not just but Christians in general so now if
Satan is trying to stop God's work and he knows that God's work is only going to come through the through the
descendants of Abraham who have that right of priesthood to administer the
blessings of life eternal and salvation then Satan has has two Targets
two key targets now those two two key targets become very political when you
look at the Jewish people and the anti-Semitism that's going on today even in the United States and when you look
at Christianity because the anti-Semitism that you see raging across the world
towards that that descendant line or that descending line of Abraham that
natural descending line can just as quickly turn against Christianity just
as quickly because those are the two Targets of Satan the literal descendants of Abraham
and the adopted descendants of Abraham that's going to be just as quick it can turn just as fast and it will as as many
have already said that Christianity is the greatest threat to democracy that's the big buzzword today is saving
democracy and part of that part of that is that Christianity is the greatest
threat to democracy the other thing is valiancy valiancy is an an interesting
thing because those who don't make it to the Celestial Kingdom were not Valiant in the testimony of Christ and what is
that valiancy mean um when it comes to other things for instance tithing is a
given amount tithing is 10% I mean it's it's just flat straight we know exactly
what it is tithing is 10% but why is fast offerings not why are fast offerings not uh delineated in an amount
because it tells you what the heart of the individual is uh fast offerings
shows where the people and where the heart of the people are really coming from by how much you give the you know
the the Widow and her two mights giving all that she has that tells where the heart is well valiancy is a lot like
that those who don't make the Celestial Kingdom are not are not Valiant in the testimony of Christ well a lot of
latterday saints say well I don't want to I'm not going to vote because it's not going to do any good anyway things
aren't going to change but that's where your heart is is is being
manifested whether you win or not or whether your candidate wins or not or
whether this law is passed or not your valiancy is shown by by you're taking an
active part in a vote for that working glory of God with that Eye Single to the
glory that's where your valiancy shows whether whether you whether your your
candidate wins or not whether your vote counts or not that doesn't matter but it
matters what you do for that work in glory and that's the valancy that's required for this Le Kingdom outside of
that there is no valiancy Christ said it this way in or in in the Book of
Revelation as John writes it down that H you know I would that you uh were hot or
cold one way or the other but because you're not going to do anything I'm going to spew you out of your out of my
mouth it actually says vomit in the Greek but um we see the same thing we
have to we have to make a choice because apathy is the first step to apostasy
that we see uh throughout scripture what do you make of those that
would say uh you know Bruce you don't need to
worry about Babylon you don't need to worry about what's going on out in the world you
just need to focus on building Zion and therefore you don't really need to battle anything that's going on in your
nation in your country in your culture uh you can vote but you don't really need to be involved and worry
about you know say the culture wars or or or trying to make things better as
you're saying according to the scriptures and and and the doctrines of
uh that you believe in right just focus on Zion you know just just build Zion
and not worry about all these other things what what would you say to that you know governments are established in
my opinion governments are established to protect religious freedom if you go back to the founding of the United
States it that's the whole purpose or the whole reason that the United States were founded Christ Christ says in third Nephi I
think it's chapter 21 maybe 22 he says that the Gentile Nations speaking of the
United States in my opinion he says that this that the Gentiles must be set up as a Free People by the power of the father
in order that these things that I'm saying that these that the Book of Mormon can come
forth so now Christ Christ has now connected the establishment of Zion with
a nation of free people he says this nation must be set up as a Free People by the power of the
father in order that these things that his words that the Book of Mormon can come forth it says the same thing in
section 10 of the doctrine covenants so Christ has made that connection we can't we can't if if if
moralities if immorality becomes civil rights how do we establish Zion because
religious freedom is then lost and so we have to take an active part in
in mosiah I think it's mosiah 29 it says I give unto you a commandment to do your
business by the voice of the people see that's where your valiancy is
coming in are you voting for those things that will whether it happens or not the Lord's looking upon the heart
not on the outward appearance not on what you're doing but up on your heart and are you trying to help him establish
Zion through your political choices that's where the valiancy is and
he says in in mosiah 29 a commandment I give unto you to do your business by the voice of the people and so we can't set
back Zion can't be established Christ says without a free Nation without retaining those freedoms the doctrine
covenants what is it section 101 or 112 says that the constitution was established by men who
lost their lives and it says and should be maintained and are we doing those
things to maintain that through our active what and again it's it's the
heart that is going to it's it's the heart that's most important we do what we can and we'll be judged afterwards
for that one last point I want to make is uh
you know you made this point which I find really interesting um very insightful with the
scriptures and that is here I'm going to quote you you say in the minds of many members there is a total disconnect
between scripture and life in general especially Politics the secular or
temporal concern will usually supersede the scriptural and spiritual anxieties in all faiths it is thought by many that
historical political content found throughout scripture is predominantly
just historical Contex context rather than insights provided by God through
prophetic inspiration so what you're saying there is look this is is and I find this in a lot of scripture right we
look at things we just kind of think this even the temple well this is this historical account of Adam and Eve or
whatever it might be right but it's like so you're saying we look at this and we say well this is just a historical part
and we're following what went on and you're saying no there are lessons here especially political
lessons that we should be gleaning from the scriptures in this
account yeah and and I and I feel strongly about that I was once given the assignment when I was at by BYU to
separate history from Doctrine in the Book of Mormon now at first it it seemed like
that was going to be pretty easy and it was you go down and pick these scriptures this is Doctrine here it is here this is history and I realize that
all scripture comes from history but not all history is scripture but it's what I realized that
especially in the Book of Mormon when it says that these prophets were inspired by what they what they put in there and
understanding the scripture and this that the doctrine came from history I started to look at the history why the
history was in The Book of Mormon why was why was that history there why did Mormon under inspiration choose what he
chose to put in there and and so I realize that we can't we can't ignore
the history and the political history we talk about the war chapters in the back of Alma there as well as the other
politic some of the other political aspects there but it's not so we're looking at the political as aspects
which are results of leaders and character traits of certain
leaders and so we we we we shouldn't be separating the doctrine from the history
within scripture because scripture is inspired we need to look at what's happening what these what these leaders
the way these leaders are and what they're doing I mean just look at King Noah as you look at King Noah it gives
us a whole bunch of stuff that's going on what king Noah and what his priests are doing what the money they're spending on how much they're taxing all
this and what they're doing with that money you have to ask yourself at the end of every chapter almost at the end
of of every verse but you have to ask yourself at least at the end of chap every chapter is why do I need to know
what when what this is why do I need to know this history you know the Book of Mormon is a pro is a prophetic history
it was written by prophets it's a prophetic history there's no question about it they were inspired and and they
were inspired as to what they should put in not for any reason readers in their day but for readers in the last day so
it is a prophetic history the scary thing is is what if it's a historical
prophecy that scares me to death nible once made the statement that the Book of Mormon would be the most frightening
book you would ever read once you began to understand it because the potential
of it being a historical prophecy for the promised land is is looming
overhead and the only way that changes is when especially when you look at the Book of Mormon is when religion and
politics are beginning to mesh I mean Elma Elma is the chief judge
now when the chief governor and the chief judge what's what that means he's at the top he's at the
top of the top he's living in the in the in the nephite white house and he realizes that the only way
to save these people politically is to get down down there and start talking spiritually now
according to the Book of Mormon when you look at the Book of Mormon and those deed restrictions that are on that Pro on the promised land of the Book of
Mormon when you look at those deed restrictions and how and how we have to have
a Focus On Christ if we do not worship the god of the land who is Jesus Christ
we're gon to we're going to we're going to lose that protection if you look at that and you look at our political issues
today our political problems today are not political
problems they're spiritual problems the Book of Mormon is true the political issues today that are
plaguing this nation or the political problems that are there and the downhill or the spiral that we're heading
downhill uh are spiritual problems not necessarily political
problems but they're spiritual problems now are we going to change that I doubt it you know I would like to think with
could but but our our The Book of Mormon clearly states that the political
problems are spiritual problems yeah and and I suppose that as
we continue to see this current of change happening
uh we're going to look at the Book of Mormon more and more and and understand
this is us yeah you know this is it it we will recognize it it was written for
us it was written for us yeah and uh that's that that is scary that is very
scary well as these things change and we've got these the culture moving so quickly and people are so unaware of
what is going on I just want to point out here that that you and I are doing a cruise which is November 9th to 16th on
navigating these philosophies of men looking at the age of absurdity and and you know my what I try to do more than
anything else is I think people need to have an awareness of of what is going on you need Clarity for you to even act or
or to do anything and so many people don't even understand it's like a whirlwind of things that have happened
recently and they're like what is going on what what is these words mean something different the reality is is
slipping away and boys are girls and girls are boys and my kids are saying different things my grandkids are are
are struggling with our testimony because of what's happening out there right now and and so that's kind of what
this is designed for and it's an opportunity for you and I to be able to speak to those that decide to go
with us and try and offer some clarity in in what is going on in the culture
and for me also once that Clarity comes from being able to
contrast these philosophies of men and the and the these these IDE ideologies with the gospel yeah and with
scripture and and with the doctrine of Christ and once you can see that Things become much clearer I believe I think
it's going to be a great trip I really do so Bruce thanks so much for coming on again and uh hopefully we're going to
get you on here in another few weeks to talk about another subject all right let me know thanks Bruce thank you
