Thoughts on Alma, Death & The Garden of Eden

What was the serpent really saying to Eve?
- Amulek & Alma talk about the first and second deaths
- While speaking on judgment, Alma brings up the Garden of Eden
- Throughout the scriptures, death is equated with judgment
- A new meaning to Lucifer's words to Eve?



Raw Transcript

having just gone over the story of Alma
and a mule ik amongst the people of
ammonia I wanted to add a little bit
more to what we did with the come follow
me series and focus on something that
looks it's a little bit more doctrinal
here it's just some thoughts that I have
it's not necessarily doctrine but there
are some ties here some parallels that I
want to make that may very well clarify
more in your mind and in my mind the
Garden of Eden story and really Alma
especially focuses on this but both
amulet and Alma really get down to the
nitty-gritty about judgment and remember
that the people of MO and I how the
overwhelming majority of them are after
the order of nee hoor they don't believe
in judgment they don't believe in the
doctrine of Christ and so that's what
Elma and a mule ik are focusing on and
they bring the Garden of Eden story into
this and because of the context that
they give us in their sermons it might
just shed a little bit of light on the
Garden of Eden story as you recall as
Emulex starts off here and he starts
talking about judgment he goes over the
two different deaths in Alma 1141 it
says therefore the wicked remain as
though there had been no redemption made
except it be the loosing of the bands of
death right so if we look at Redemption
as a two-part series here one is
physical and one is spiritual and
therefore there are two different deaths
so the redemption still plays here even
for the wicked in terms of a physical
resurrection it continues and says for
behold the day cometh that all shall
rise from the dead that's the that's the
first death and stand before God and be
judged according to their works oh
there's the first death and then there's
the second death and notice how both of
these are pulled together that's going
to be what I really try to cover here
that death and
judgment our if not one in the same they
are pulled together very very closely
they're bound together here throughout
the Scriptures and that's what a me like
is showing us here he says in 42 that
Christ shall loose the bands of his this
temporal death that all shall be raised
from this temporal death and then in 44
this restoration shall come to all both
old and young both bond and free both
male and female both the wicked and the
so this first death is simply the
separation of body and spirit and then
Alma builds off of what a meal excess
here in Chapter 12 and he talks about
the second death he says we must come
forth and stand before him in his glory
and in his power and in his might
Majesty and Dominion and acknowledge to
our everlasting shame that all his
judgments are just that he is just in
all his works and that he is merciful
unto the children of men and that he has
all power to save every man that
believeth on his name and bringeth forth
fruit meat for repentance and then here
it is he says in 16 and now behold I say
unto you then cometh a death
even a second death which is spiritual
death then is a time that whosoever died
in his sins write again you've got death
and sins here combined as to a temporal
death the first death shall also die a
spiritual death yea he shall die as two
things pertaining unto righteousness and
then he goes on to talk about the lake
of fire and brimstone but the key here
is understanding that the first death
the temporal death is closely tied to
the second death the spiritual death the
spiritual death occurs at judgment and
so the idea of death and judgment are
coupled and we find this throughout the
scriptures and then interestingly enough
Alma goes right into the Garden of Eden
story he talks about a probationary
state he talks about
if it were possible that our first
parents could have gone forth and
partaking of the Tree of Life after they
have partaken of the tree of knowledge
of good and evil well again what is that
tree of knowledge of good and evil let's
clarify that a little bit if you've
listened to the podcast much you know
that I've gone over this a little bit we
look at the tree of knowledge of good
and evil
first I would look at it as the law and
you can look at it specifically as the
law of Moses or as just the commandments
and you say well wait a minute isn't the
tree of knowledge of good and evil isn't
that bad that they partook of it well
maybe it's the timing I'm not going to
go into that now but that is what gives
them the knowledge of good and evil once
you have the commandments much you have
the Word of God now you're responsible
now there is judgment remember before
that Adam and Eve were in a state of
innocence because they did not have the
knowledge of good and evil which is the
law so what is placed by the Lord once
Adam and Eve partake of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil
well cherubim of course and what are
they they are guardians of the Tree of
Life they are judgment so that is what
comes into play notice that the cherubim
are not in place before they partake of
the tree because there is no judgment at
this point in the tree in the Garden of
Eden there's no judgment yet but once
they have the law now judgment comes
into place and it stands in front of the
tree of life or of exaltation now this
is a shorter episode but before I go
into what I really want is zero in on I
want to go over a few scriptures that
that kind of show you give you some
context about this idea of death and
judgment being combined it's important
before I bring up this this final point
let's go to the New Testament here
Romans seven this is nine through eleven
for I was alive without the law once
think of Adam and Eve before they
partook of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil so I
was alive without the law ones but when
the commandment came in other words the
law the partaking of the tree of good
and evil sin revived and I died right we
oftentimes think of all well once you
partake of the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil now you're going to die
well don't think of just death a first
death think of the second death that's
what Paul is going over here with to the
Romans verse 10 in the commandment or
the Word of God or the fruit of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil which
was ordained to life it was necessary I
found to be unto death because of
judgment in other words Eve partook of
the fruit that's what Paul's going
through in verse 11 for sin taking
occasion by the commandment in other
words sin is coupled with the
commandments with the Word of God
it deceived me think of Eve I he
beguiled me the serpent beguiled me
again eleven for sin taking occasion by
the commandment deceived me and by it
slew me it killed me this is not just
about a mortal death this is about a
spiritual death revelations 20 is a
great place to go
blessed and holy is he that hath part in
the first resurrection right that has to
do with your body with the first death
on such the second death hath no power
but they shall be priests of God in
Christ and shall reign with him a
thousand years and then he goes into
judgment here and I saw the dead small
and great stand before God and the books
were opened and another book was opened
which is the book of life and the dead
were judged dead or judged out of those
things which were written in the books
according to their works their works
based on what the commandments remember
often times works in Paul's writings is
the commandments it's the law of Moses
and the sea gave up the Dead which were
in it the sea thinking I think of that
over the place of fire and brimstone the
lake of fire and brimstone and death and
he'll delivered up the dead death and
he'll delivered up the Dead which were
in them and they were judged every man
according to their works and death and
he'll were cast into the lake of fire
this is the second death okay so again
what I want to get in your mind here
settled here is that death is judgment
right for the most part they are coupled
and oftentimes death means judgment
throughout the scriptures first
Corinthians 15 Oh death where is thy
sting o grave where is thy victory the
sting of death is sin and the strength
of sin is the law okay so if the
strength of sin is the law and the law
was the tree of knowledge of good and
that's how sin was introduced and that's
how the second death is introduced is
through the partaking of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil and then we
can even look here at something that's a
lot more familiar to us both in the
Psalms and in the Book of Mormon and
that is a valley right look at Psalm 23
you've heard this many times but you may
not have thought of it this way verse 4
yea though I walk through the valley of
the shadow of death I will fear no where
no evil for thou art with me thy rod and
thy staff they comfort me okay well how
does that really make sense what about
the rod and the staff here these are
these are at least one of those two is a
tool for judgment right that is that is
they hold the rod and the staff in their
hands one of those has to do with the
lower law one of those is judge
over the commandments so he says here
even though I walk through the valley of
the shadow of death well we might
usually think oh I'm going to die and
now I'm afraid what's gonna happen but
really what he's talking about here is
judgment right the shadow of death comes
from mullet in Hebrew which means a deep
or a deep darkness think of going down
into a valley right and down in that
Valley is darkness and that valley then
is full of judgment think of Lehigh's
vision what is between the Tree of Life
and the great spacious building in the
Garden of Eden story it's cherubim that
is judgment with the flaming sword but
in the dream of Lehi it is water a river
of fire and brimstone
it is a valley a chasm or that water
assists its judgment in the valley and I
would suggest that valleys oftentimes
mean that they mean a darkness and a
judgment a place of judgment even when
Lehi and his family are in the northern
parts of Arabia off of the Gulf of Aqaba
likely and they are at the valley of
Lemuel what does he say to Lemuel about
that valley where they are residing it
says invert in first Nephi 2:10 and he
also spake unto Lemuel oh that thou
mightest be like unto this valley firm
and steadfast and immovable in keeping
the commandments of the Lord or the Word
of God the law so the valley here
represents that law the valley here
would represent the judgment that comes
in with that law so we have Alma and am
you like - a people whose theology their
belief system is that there is no
judgment and that there is no Christ
that's important to understand
here we have Alma bringing in the story
of the Garden of Eden in in referring to
judgment and we have the examples here
throughout the Scriptures and I could go
on and on and on with this of how death
is judgment and how specifically the
second death is judgment in a negative
sense now let's take a look again at the
Garden of Eden story Adam and Eve are in
a state of innocence they do not have
the law
Eve is wandering about the garden and
she runs into Lucifer the serpent and
here's how this goes starting in Genesis
3 now the serpent was more subtle than
any beast of the field which the Lord
God had made and he said unto the woman
yea hath God said ye shall not eat of
every tree of the garden right he's
starting off with questions here getting
her thinking did God say you can't have
any of this and the woman said unto the
serpent we may eat of the fruit of the
trees of the garden but of the fruit of
the tree which is in the midst of the
garden that's the center of the garden
God hath said ye shall not eat of it
this is important right here neither
shall ye touch it lest ye die a parallel
to this would be the children of Israel
at Sinai remember where they're going
there to get the law of Moses right
they're going there to get the Word of
God Moses is going to go to the top of
Sinai there and get the Word of God the
children of Israel were not even allowed
to touch Mount Sinai or they would die
okay that's the parallel there Mount
Sinai is a parallel to the Garden of
Eden just as the story of Noah is a
parallel to the creation story so the
Lord had said to Eve he shall not eat of
it neither shall ye touch of it lest ye
die think of that word now again what
does that mean and the serpent said unto
the woman ye shall not surely die for
God doth know that in the day ye eat
then your eyes shall be opened and ye
shall be as God's knowing good and evil
okay now what do we have here there are
two statements that are being made God
says the day you touch it you will die
Lucifer says you're not going to die
right so that's an obvious lie the other
thing he says is that you'll be like the
gods knowing good from evil and that God
knows that so that's true I mean
remember in the Garden of Eden right now
there's a straight path to the Tree of
Life before they partake of the the the
tree of the knowledge of good and evil
look you can move and progress toward
the Tree of Life no problem when you
partake of this you still have the Tree
of Life right there
you have exaltation you have eternal
life you can be as the gods but what
does death really mean think about
judgment yes Mort mortal death comes
into play here the first death comes
into play here but so does the second
think here of the word death as a
judgment and I'll say it again and the
serpent said unto the woman ye shall not
surely die
in other words don't worry about
judgment you can partake of the
knowledge here and have zero judgment
there are zero consequences that is the
lie that Satan is going over here are my
thoughts on this and that's how he
beguiled Eve they do need to partake of
the fruit at some point anyway but the
way he beguiled her is by telling her
that there is no judgment you'll have
context as Lehi says you're going to
learn about the opposition of all things
you're going to have the law but it what
he doesn't say is that it's going to
introduce death it's going to introduce
judgment now back to the people of ammon
aha what do those after the order of nee
hoor believe they believe that there is
no judgment and therefore no need of a
this is exactly
the theology so to speak of Lucifer in
the Garden of Eden it's the same thing
you shall not surely die there is no
judgment therefore we do not need a
redeemer that is the great lie and of
course after they partake of the fruit
of that tree then cherubim is put into
place and the Lord must put the cherubim
there because judgment goes along with
the law and this is how Alma puts it as
he's referring to the Garden of Eden
here in Chapter 12 23 and Alma and now
behold I say to you that if it had been
possible for Adam to have partaken of
the Tree of Life at that time
there would have been no death right no
judgment and the world would have been
void because of course without judgment
there's no carrot either right we may
think of that just as the stick being
removed but there's also no benefit
there's no positive judgment positive
consequences for obedience and then
therefore there is no purpose for us
there is no reason for us to go through
the plan of redemption if we don't have
a shot at becoming like our Heavenly
Father in our Heavenly Mother he says
and the word would have been void making
God a liar instead of Lucifer right if
you didn't put the cherubim there what
it made God a liar for he said if thou
eat though shalt surely die if you eat
there will be judgment so this is the
beguiling of Lucifer with Adam and Eve
they were told that there would be
judgment that there would be death once
they partake of that tree of knowledge
of good and evil once they were given
the law the word the commandments and
Lucifer said no I'm going to give you
this go ahead and take this take the law
but understand that there is no judgment
to this that was the great law that is
the theology of those that follow the
order of any horse I hope that gives you
a little perspective on the highly
important story of the Garden of Eden
I'll talk to you next time


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