LDS Women, Social Media, and the New Anti-Mormonism - The Battle For Women In The Church

Sarah Clark breaks down LGBTQ issues, the Family Proclamation, and the emotional manipulation of the West:

  • Feminism, critical theory, and the social media spiral pulling women away
  • Dismantling victim narratives, priesthood myths, and the deconstruction machine
  • Soft lies, beautiful graphics, and the spiritual war targeting divine identity
  • From situationships and swipe culture to faith, confidence, and God’s timing
  • Sarah Clarke gets real about dating apps, commitment, and how she met her future husband

 

 

Raw Transcript:

 

I'm very happy to bring back Sarah Clark in this interview. We talk about the tough subjects, untethered empathy, the family proclamation, LGBTQ issues, understanding the messaging from the church in a global church now, not just a church from the United States or even a western church. I love her direct nononsense approach and apparently so do a lot of other people. She's becoming a very, very popular Latter-day Saint influencer. And she's going to be on Wavemakers in November 14th to 21st along with along with Hayden and Jackson Paul of the Stick of Joseph and Cardinalis of Ward Radio, Andrea Woodmancy, Aransa Condi, Jonah Barnes, Jacob Hansen of Thoughtful Faith, and more. We had such a good time with this last time bringing that online community directly face to face with these influencers and these podcasters. It was it was a blast. We're going up the California coast this November. To find out more, go to quickdia.com cwicdia.com. Scroll to the top to trips and events and then down to Wavemakers 26. We'll see you there. Here we go with Sarah.

Right. Welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. In this episode, we invite back Sarah Clark again, the Instagram phenom that is dishing out truth whether you like it or not. Sarah, welcome back to the show.

Thanks for having me, Greg.

I love what you do. I love listening to your your shorts, your clips, uh the truth that you are spewing out because it just cuts through so many different things. I want to talk first about being a woman in the church. I want to talk about women leaving the church. We have these great numbers right now in the church around the world. All of these baptisms, the church is growing. It's exciting. But there is an issue with church members in the West that are already members of the church, especially with women. And I, you know, I I've covered this for a couple of years. Um, and I keep getting hit back with this over and over again. Are you a misogynist? Why are you saying these types of things? And it's like, well, do we want to put our head in the sand with this? And sure enough, later on, Jared Halverson brings this up. He gets hammered for saying it. Um, Barbara Morgan Gardner brought it up in a fair conference last August. Uh, they've probably seen the same data that I have seen. um what is going on in your mind? What do you think is happening with existing women in the church?

I think that we need to go broadly first. what is happening with women in the west period because you've got all sorts of messages from all sides about frankly the first question of what is a woman and then going beyond going smaller than that beyond that so whether it's you know LGBT issues abortion what have you on the political stage the world right now is attacking things about women and targeting things about women that are inherently divine and good about us. For example, empathy, nurturing, caring, all of those things that like our heavenly father have has given specifically to women to bring about miracles and to bring up the family and keep the family strong. Satan is twisting those things and targeting women specifically. We know we know he's doing this because of what President Nelson said that you know it will not be possible to survive the next few the next the coming days without the fortitude and the testimony of women.

And so of course Satan is going to attack those things. Mhm. Of course he's I don't think I really don't think that it's as brazen an attack with Satan as we'd like to think that he's just going to find the thing about you and just like hit that button every time. No, he's going to be soft. He's going to be he's going to use pretty words. He's going to use pretty Instagram graphics to convince you of untruths to convince women that things about them like being a mother are bad or somehow because you want to be a mother. You are caving to misogyny. You you are so in the misogyny that you can't possibly look to you you can't possibly see beyond your world view. And every you you see this like across Instagram. It's like you see as soon as someone starts posting certain Instagram graphics, it's a few months later they announce they're leaving the church. And it's it's so sad to watch my sisters in Christ believe lies, believe things about themselves that are not true, to believe the the loud world, the pretty Instagram graphic over their heavenly father and their divine identity.

Yeah. This is uh something else that I've talked about quite a bit. It's there is a there is an untethered empathy that is very intoxicating to women.

Yes. Because it feels right. It feels that you're being righteous. It feels and and and it's it's it's pulling from one side of a a divinely given virtue as you say but then leading you somewhere else because it is untethered to truth.

Yes. So, it it's like this carrot that gets put out in front of you that doesn't say, "Oh, by the way, well, basically, it just keeps traveling."

It's like, "We're going to keep moving this carrot. You're going to follow the carrot." Yep.

But we're going to move it further and further away from truth.

The goalpost keeps moving. You know, it first it was, you know, and I agree with this, you know, don't don't kick out your gay kid, you know, don't don't kick out your kid just because they came out as gay to full-blown you need to be okay with men and women's spaces and how dare you not support, you know, every every last thing that comes out of the LGBT community. It's like, no, we we could have stayed over here where we can have both empathy for the person, the same-sex attracted person, and love for them and Christlike love, while at the same time still standing behind the family proclamation. Those two things can exist at once. The world will tell us, the world will tell us that they can't, but they can because Jesus Christ is where justice and mercy meet. You can have both justice and mercy in the same space because that's who Jesus is.

What the world does is says, "Well, we only need to have mercy. We only need to have mercy. There's no justice. There's no truth. Let's let's keep moving the goalpost and see how far we can go." And people continue to follow it because they're like, "Well, I need to have that empathy. I need to have that mercy." It's like, "True, but you need to have justice and you need to have truth."

Yeah. And it it seems to me like we do a terrible job top to bottom. Mhm. In getting out a message that says, "Let's just talk about how this works." Mhm. Let's show you the patterns that develop here because it's all the same. Yes. Okay. Understand empathy is great. Mhm. If it's used right. It's like money. Yes. Right. I can I can use money well or or poorly. Right. It it is more neutral than you think it is. Yes. And so if if we see a pattern that says, "Okay, just so you know, if you have empathy for something, make sure you're always tethered to truth because otherwise you can go down this road."

And I don't think that, for example, parents are aware of this. This type of a discussion around the dinner table is not happening.

Yes. And so if the dinner table even happening, right? Is the dinner table even happening?

Yes, that was like such a big deal to us. We did because I had a wife that made sure that we did. And we had these types of discussions all the time, right? And it's like, no, what is the pattern?

Yep. What do you Let's look at what happened with this. And if there's foresight on this for a young woman who's about to go while she's in high school or even now today in junior high or even elementary school in Exactly. whenever they get their phone and whenever and not even that whenever their friends get their phones.

Yep. Right. Yeah. Then then you can have these discussions and talk about untethered empathy or understanding how we feel good and loving to someone while still retaining our truth.

Yes.

And and and women own that realm. Yep.

So, what do we do if we're going into some type of a spiral of women having a problem and leaving the church and women becoming the more premier anti-Mormons that are influencing others to leave the church, all going through this kind of the same spiral?

So, I want to touch on social media addiction because I fall into the female social media chronically online trope. I recognize that I'm online all the time. I recognize that I consume a lot.

I will say before I started creating content and I was simply just consuming, I was significantly more miserable and upset at my life versus when I switched and started creating and I started putting my own content out there. I look at social media content now with a curiosity. It's like, I wonder if I'm going to find a new thing that I can talk about on my page today. And then it turns into a fun creative process for me.

And I want to touch on that word deconstructing. Deconstructing. What does that mean? You are the opposite of constructing. You are taking down something. You are not creating. You are destroying.

Where we feel best.

We just read this in Come Follow Me two weeks ago. Moses 1:39, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

God's work and glory is to create us and to guide us to be like him and to bring about our immortality and eternal life. That is his work and his glory. He is creating. We have several accounts of the creation story because God loves it so much, right?

Who is the destroyer? Satan.

When you are constantly taking down, deconstructing, destroying something else, you are not building. You are not creating. You are not doing the divine things that our Heavenly Father loves to do the most.

Of course you're going to be miserable. Of course you're going to go down this path.

I mean, you see like on the opposite end of the spectrum, Alyssa Grenfell this last week, she put out a video making fun of a family who was doing a TikTok dance at their daughter's funeral. Their daughter had made that dance while she was in cancer treatment.

Alyssa is doing the same thing I assume that I do when it comes to creating, right? But I'm looking for things to amplify or to correct or to make the culture, make the situation better for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am building up something. I am participating in the building of Zion.

She is on the hunt looking for the weirdest thing the latest Latter-day Saint family has done so she can ridicule it, so she can mock it, so she can tell her followers this is why Mormons are the way they are. And that's the problem is that she's destroying and we should be creating.

So what do we do about this one?

I mean beam in my eye here for a minute. Take a break from social media and go touch some grass and go create things with your family. Go create a family. Go do something with your life other than scrolling and constantly consuming.

Beam in the eye. Sarah's a massive sinner here.

But additionally, in the social media world, put your voice out there. You're not alone in this anymore. There's not just a few people out there who are saying what needs to be said. There should be more because we as Latter-day Saints know the truth. We know the gospel of Jesus Christ. And we are promised that the word of the gospel is going to spread to all nations and eventually every knee will bow.

Participate in the gathering of Israel like President Nelson has said.

All right, I want to switch topics.

You're in the middle of a transition finally.

You know we've got something you've talked about, something I talk about, is the family proclamation. And this is, I think, core. To me it is as entwined with the doctrine of Christ as anything else out there. It is together. You cannot separate them. It's the ideal.

Very few of us live the ideal, but that is the ideal. And so that's what the Church teaches.

However, you have individuals that are young and single and some older and single and they don't fit in very well to the ideal. And so to some degree many feel they're kind of an outsider.

What can the Church do to help with those individuals? I've heard you even say that YSA sometimes even feels like you're a second-class citizen.

Yes. So, a couple things. I have been in the YSA for a decade now. I've seen a lot of really good change in the last decade for YSAs. I have seen a lot of great progress, but I still see this general attitude.

And I actually don't think it's coming from the Brethren anymore. I think it really helped to have President Nelson whose wife was single for 50 plus years and now President Oaks whose wife was also single for 50 plus years. So they have a different perspective.

So I don't even think it's coming from the Brethren anymore. I think this is a cultural thing that people view single people in the Church as “I don't know what to do with you and I don't know how to treat you.”

I mean I've heard bishops say this to me in repentance conversations for law of chastity issues. My bishop got married at 21 and now he's telling a 28-year-old woman to keep the law of chastity in prime childbearing years. Okay… like good luck.

I actually feel bad for him in that situation.

But I think that this is a cultural thing that people shouldn't be counting out the YSAs or believing that what they're doing in their lives is less worthy of accolades and attention than any other thing that a family ward is doing.

I think there's just this general attitude that it's this group of teenagers getting together at church.

Perhaps those predominantly student wards with freshmen. I think that's what a lot of people's experience with the YSA was — their freshman year at BYU — and then they went off and got married and they've been in the family ward ever since.

Sure, that does happen. I'm not saying it doesn't.

But my experience has been: I'm 23. I'm 24. I'm now 25 and I'm not married. I'm 26 and I'm not married. I'm 27 and I'm not married. I'm now 28 and finally we have the ring.

But I have seen the same thing with a bunch of YSAs that I've gone to church with for a decade now where we're kind of looking at each other like, “Holy crap… we have the extended AP YSA at this point. Advanced Placement YSA.”

And yet I know they've been at church with me this whole time. They've been stalwart and faithful.

Aside from the sealing covenant, we have made the same covenants that people in the family ward have made. There are people in the family ward who still haven't made the sealing covenant.

So why are we being treated as a less-than member by the members?

Like I said, I don't think it's the Brethren anymore. The Brethren have called out the single epidemic. I think it was Elder Gong who pointed out that more than 50% of the Church is single — whether it's YSA, widows, divorce — it's like 52% of the Church is single.

So the Brethren know.

It's the rest of us that need to get on board and say, you know what, I'm going to stop calling the YSAs kids.

Don't call me a kid.

I go sit next to a lawyer at church — you're going to call him a kid? I've sat next to doctors — you're going to call them kids? Seriously.

That's not what the single people of the Church are made up of anymore.

It's a problem. And we as a culture need to stop looking at them like that.

We are just as valuable in the gathering of Israel and the spreading of the gospel as anybody else. Just because we're missing that one covenant doesn't change our value to the Lord's mission.

 

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