How The Church Does Politics

This is a fascinating discussion of the church's inside political workings. How has the church managed controversial issues?

Connor Boyack has extensive experience working directly with Salt Lake's church leaders at all levels. He discusses how the church has navigated politics in the past and his own experiences with the church when he and his organization have been on the opposite side of an issue.

 Raw Transcript

money you know the gravy was flowing and he was so mad that he he you know broke the top of the desk and there have been
many attempts in the past to steer members towards uh towards candidates we
like this guy we don't like this guy it's been uh far more rare I think extremely rare on particular issues like
I raised with the medical cannabis and other ones where they'll go to a citizen as you said and say Hey you ought to
vote this way yeah yeah that's uh well again they they it's like they
reaffirmed uh during the the campaign La this year you know that their their neutrality and that's that's a very
strong Focus for them to have that at least as an appearance that they are neutral politically uh now with the
candidates um what are your thoughts on that I mean here you've got you're opposing sometimes the church on an
initiative mhm what are your thoughts of the church being involved period this is
an I mean you work with you have an organization yes so you so you've got an organization that is lobbying that is
trying to uh influence public opinion right so what do you think of them being involved with that so this is where I
it's a really weird business to be in first of all being more libertarian minded you know the the conservatives think we're liberals and the Liberals
think we're conservatives and people don't know quite how to box us but then also is someone who is not just going to
rubber stamp whatever my church does and assume that it's from God I'm going to be more critically thoughtful about that and understand that a lot of these
administrative political things the Aon sherinian of the world there not everything is blessed and divine it's
you know the this just a big organization making a lot of decisions so I approach it from that kind of more
nuanced way to say I'm going to think about whether I agree with the church's position sometimes I do I mean they take issues and I'm like yeah I'm on the same
side here let's work together um but where where I part ways with people who
try and put me in a boxes is often times it's the ex Mormons and therefore a lot of the Liberals and leftists and others
who look at at our opposition to the church as like we're on their team somehow because they're by default
critical of the church I get that even on my podcast sometimes same so do I it's like no you you listen a little
more exactly it's like there there's like this oh you know he said something I agree with therefore he must be on my
team and so these people see that I'm I'm at odds with the church or our organization is and they assume that
like we're in their tribe somehow and then I throw a Gren at him and I say here's where I completely disagree with
you that whole cohort of people ex Mormon postm Mormon liberal leftist whatever they attack the church and say
the church should be lose should lose its tax exemp exempt status if it wants to speak out on any political they want
to punish the church they want to say that you're not allowed to do that you need to shut up you're a powerful
institution with your billions of dollars you shouldn't be influential in politics by and llarge that is the
position of that cohort of people I completely disagree with that even though I'm at odds with the church on a
handful of issues I think they have a voice they are a nonprofit uh churches
non non-religious nonprofits like my own everyone should have a voice I uh and
it's completely wrong to say that they should lose their tax exempt status the IRS doesn't prohibit you from speaking out on any issues interestingly it was
in the 50s when the IRS said that nonprofits can't endorse or oppose candidates because Lynden B Johnson who
was in the Senate running for president getting attacked by these people in his district these like pastors and others
so he quietly goes into the Senate and slips in this amendment to say that nonprofits are not allowed to to favor
or oppose candidates no debate no discussion it slips in it gets passed and ever since then in the 50s that is
why the church is politically neutral and does not and all the other churches there's actually a lot of Evangelical churches in years past that would
organize something called Pulpit Freedom Sunday where they would try and provoke that law do some Civil Disobedience and
actually speak out against some crazy socialist Marxist candidate or whatever knowing that they have the free speech
First Amendment on their side and we need to challenge the Johnson Amendment as it's called um and so uh no I think
the church is entitled to speak out I think it ought to they are a stakeholder even if I I think that they should
handle differently this presumption of theological backing that their political positions have I think they ought to be
a stakeholder they're a massive employer they're a massive land owner right I mean they are they are a stakeholder in
Utah Affairs love it or not like why would should they be denied or punished for engaging so I don't support the idea
that the church should be quiet or stop frankly I think the church ought to be speaking up on more issues that it's not
I mean we could talk about culture wars abortion like all kinds of things where I'm like church where are you why are
you nitpicking these these little things when we have these like substantive things that we need to be hearing your voice on right um no I I think the
church should speak more and um I think they have every right to do so I just
think they need to be far more thoughtful I mean they they know that they are politically advantaged because
of this Divi presumption of divine whatever so who's going to give away that type of like benefit you're never
going to voluntarily relinquish the ring of power into you know if it's benefiting me so I don't know what we do
about that that to me is the the downside I want them involved I want them speaking out I don't want them
implying that every position they take is somehow from on high and therefore everyone needs to just you know rubber
stamp it and move on but that's the culture often times for sure it seems like yeah
so in in that same world with a
church if you're going to put something through what are
you are you preemptively going to the church or is
another organization here in Utah preemptively going to the church saying let me lay this out this is why we don't
think gets a big deal to you yes okay on key issues look the church doesn't care about you know uh body cameras on police
or you know economic deregulation of of startups like I mean you kind of know
what certain organizations care about if I know that the ACLU is going to care about this issue I'm going to go talk to the ACLU if I know that the Senate
President is really hung up on K through2 schools we're going to have a conversation before I go charge forward
and do a bill so that just makes sense that you're talking to the people who care about particular issues before you
then you know charge forward on that the church does have its kind of core hobby issues and if you're working on those or
anything adjacent to them it would be in your advantage to have an early conversation to say hey heads up I'm
working on this you know if you care about this let's let's talk now I think the church stepped in it with our
medical cannabis thing they got a ton of flak and uh not only did they get out of flack which hurt their appearance and
image which they're sensitive to uh it also caused a massive um I shouldn't say
massive but within within Utah conservative Mormon uh space a very large Faith crisis for a number of
people I can't tell you how many DMS and texts and calls and conversations I had over those few years because I was the
face of this issue along with DJ like but I was I was in the media all the time I was people were coming to me with
all kinds of questions and concerns and the faith crisis was well wait a minute my the pro the prophet said the church
said you know this is bad but my grandma has tried all these medications and
opioids and She's suffering and I slipped her a little bit of THC one day and she had the best day in the past
four years like why is that wrong why and wait a minute and and it caused a
lot of people to recalibrate and be like because we have this culture of Follow The Prophet therefore follow all of his
administrative functionaries Underneath Him from the church administration building and uh and it caused a lot of
them to kind of reflect and be like wait a minute like just cuz the church is saying that doesn't mean that's from God
I need to reanalyze my own testimony is the church not true because it's being led by people who are engaged in these
political machinations and so as someone who myself is deeply faithful and a member of the church and good standing
and all the rest I would get these these discussions of earnest people trying to be like how are you navigating this you are publicly doing battle with your own
church and and you haven't been called before a court of love there's been no discipline at all uh in fact my Bishop
told me uh a couple years after the fact we were having tithing settlement he's like I don't think I ever told you this story when the the medical cannabis
thing was going on I was getting all these emails from random people saying that you need to be disciplined for for
speaking out against the church and uh I was like oh really like he never told me that he's my neighbor and cool guy but
you know he never mentioned it I said why didn't you do anything about that he's like well I was kind of a new bishop didn't know what to do I went to
the stake president I'm like should I do anything with this stake president looked at he's like nah which gets to leader ship roulette
you know had I had a different leader that could have had a very different outcome but because I was so public in
this and doing battle but as a member and good standing and a faithful adherent to the Gospel of Jesus Christ I
had a lot of those questions of people who were struggling with their testimony and looking for someone to tell them how
do I stay in this church how do I how do I make sense of this you know the scales have fallen off my eyes and how do you
how do you make sense of it uh so I think that going back the church stepped in it both appearance wise but also I
don't think the calculus was worth it in terms of the spiritual Carnage created for the political benefit that they got
if that makes sense so I think they've been a little more reticent in subsequent years to
engage uh this is my perception but I I think that that calculus has shifted a
little bit where it's now it's like H we're not going to engage in issues unless like it's very clearly on point
with something that we care deeply about like marriage or something so there that
seems to be a a I see the same thing you saw in that instance which is which is there is a faith crisis sometimes
because more and more of our how do we say this you know the the
the sides are pulling apart so widely that everything is becoming political
yeah right it's like everything is going to be a political issue and so as an example back in what was it 2009 2010 I
think it was 2010 there was the immigration issue in Utah yes and and
the church sided with I'm not going to say open borders but basically let them in right bring
him into Utah let them in uh you know for them they're probably looking at I'm
guessing opportunity and the gospel being taught to them I don't know but but I had a friend that was
uh um a very very conservative friend and she was just she she had she didn't
come to church for a while she couldn't believe that the church would go down this route it's the first time I saw
someone on the right mhm look at a church the church politically and and and freak out yeah right are we going to
get more and more of that I do you think it's going to be more and more kind of this
Tangled ball of yarn yep that that we're going to feel Tangled into
ourselves and wonder you know with the masks for example you know anything like this it's
like it's like where where do I go and if I have a pure this purest feeling of well I follow the prophet I follow what
the church says and I'm not saying you don't but there are going to be more and more
issues that you may not agree with that are going to be coming forward is in my
opinion I think you're spoton uh I was in the church office building with a few
individuals uh as all the co stuff was happening to talk about that first presidency letter that came out and we
it was with the public affairs folks so it wasn't with any general authorities at all they wouldn't let us uh have that
meeting they they filter everything through all the bureaucracy so we got to meet with the public affairs people and
and we were like this this memo that you've created is is creating all this spiritual destruction you've got members
who are treating the the mask and the jab and everything like The Scarlet Letter the way to identify who's following the prophet because in that
letter it was very clear we urge you to do this it has proven to be safe and effective you know and that's very
different from past vaccination letters that were like consult with your doctor but we're pro vaccine but you know
figure it out for you this letter was very like we urge you to do this this is a godsend president Nelson called and so
we were trying to communicate to the church like this is creating a lot of problem problems within the church uh
missionaries are are being sent home or kept in their apartment if they're refusing to to do this BYU like we had
all these examples of this infighting within the church all pred ated on well
the prophet said we ought to do this therefore and um I don't know it it it
to me speaks to the need to be very selective about when the church engages
in issues again when it's creating this Divine presumption that everyone else who is not acting consistent with the
directive is not following the prophet therefore is unrighteous therefore you know um we our church culture I think is
very unhealthy in that regard and we do get a bit fical in our judgments about one another based on are you
sufficiently you know righteous in in following what you're told I think Co was a great example to your question I
think yes we're going to see more of it I think we're going to see more faith crises from the right um especially as
the church is not really SP responding to the woke you know trans everything
that the left has been doing and that's seeping into our church the number of young Mormons that are that call
themselves pro- choice you know like the the the generational shift in our church is going to spill over it's been kept
under reps because our leaders are octogenarian types that aren't really responding to those kind of cultural
issues at the base but give it a few years a few decades uh there's going to be a Schism and maybe that's more
offshoots of the church and people like you know the rlds when they went Community of Christ and went kind of
woke back in the day and women in the priesthood and all of that they had all kinds of offshoots from that church of
course polygamy and flds and more recently the Snuffer eights and all these people so I think we'll see more
schisms I know countless people who are already trending in that direction and I think we'll see more of it yeah it's
just the the the chatter you know you're online as well there's just so much
chatter about these things right now and it is it brings up something that that I've
been talking about which is which is uh messaging okay and and I mean messaging
from the church right so there's I I think it's when the church is going out
there's two ways to look at this that you have the church which is saying look we are teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ we're shining a light out into a
dark world and we're inviting everybody in right
but is that enough because when you when you
invite my message to you if I'm inviting you into the gospel MH is also an
invitation out of something for sure okay so when I Define the gospel I put a
circle around it and I say everything within the circle this this is the gospel more or less I know we're a little nebulous on that line but you
know this is the gospel but I'm also when I do that I'm I'm saying this then
is not the gospel right and if you don't like Lehi will say opposition in all
things if you don't Define that or reference what is
not then that Circle begins to widen yeah and everything gets included and
brought into it and that's what's happening right now in the US in the west right and so if I'm not
addressing the things outside the circle as being not in the
circle then then that Circle will continue to widen and I've got a definition that is going to continue to
change yeah uh and that seems like a problem to me I think it was J rman Clark who has the quote I might be wrong
in that but that the idea that if if your neighbor let's say you're your front yard you know joining property
with your neighbor if your neighbor has all this refu and waste and old tires and crap all over the front lawn and
then that starts to spill over onto what you believe to be your side of the property linee if you don't know where
that property linee is number one and if number two you're not articulating and defending it to say hey this far no
further MH uh there effectively is no boundary if it's not known and it's not
defended and so if we don't have people articulating what those boundaries are they may as well not exist especially in
a culture that like we have such um what's the right way to say this like like a spiritual Amnesia in the sense
that we we don't pay attention to what leaders said decades ago oftentimes because it's been corrected or Changed by subsequent leaders but you know sure
uh back in the 70s when roie Wade was a huge thing and all up in the news the
leaders of the church were frequently talking about abortion in general conference talking about pro-life this
pro- lifee that I did a a so I have podcast Sunday musings Sunday ms.org if
you pick abortion you'll find this this musing where I I went through the data I compiled all the general conference talks searching for abortion so you can
see the data of this huge spike in the 60s and 70s and then it comes cratering
down to zero there's effectively been statistically zero mentions in the
past few decades so you have all these young kids who aren't reading general conference talks from half a century ago
they're not getting that Insight we're being told well the living Prophet is scripture so just pay attention to General Conference that's the message
that you need to hear for the time that you're in and they're not hearing a ton of stuff that the culture around them is
with a megaphone blasting into their ears and influencers and peers and many
fellow members of the church are going in that direction and it's like we have the The Mists of darkness and the
wandering path over to the great and spacious without the iron Rod that people are being like hey keep hanging on to this iron rod it's right here hold
on like if if we don't ID or saying the great and spacious building is bad yes
right exactly don't pay attention to them don't heed them right like Lehi said so so I this going back to the
church speaking out this there are areas where I think the church needs to speak out far more and I don't know if it's because of fear uh of of image of being
criticized being canceled I mean I'm sure it is but I've just like you were saying the circle is the gospel like in
the middle the example that I uh I call it flag planting more of a marketing term but if I plant a flag in the ground
and I say like use the title of Liberty as an example or What's that name April something on social media she did the
proclamation on the family despain yeah I think that's right so you know let's say Proclamation on the family you plant
a flag and you say this is what I believe what happens well it's divisive you're going to alienate and repel as
she did a number of people who find that odious okay that's sad because the
church's default position is oh we want to be inviting to all we want you know everyone to come join us warm and fuz IES right and so you're going to
alienate a lot of people that has a calculus to it to decide if you want to take that bold stand and repel people
but what does it also do it attracts to you the very people that you need who
want to be there who ought to be there and if everything is milk toast and there's no comment and there's no
opposition if we're trying to be lovey-dovey Prince of Peace I'm like Jesus didn't come to bring peace but a
sword you stand for the truth it's naturally divisive but if we're not planting the flag we're not attract the
right membership base and we're just kind of like wasting away into spiritual mediocrity uh and so I fear for the
future of the church if we're not taking bold stands that like what does the membership even look like we're just drinking milk we're abstaining from meat
uh we're not interesting I know many people who are attracted to our the gospel based on like the Book of Mormon
secret combination stuff Freedom agency like people who are not members of our faith that are really intrigued by those
doctrines and then they look at how the organization functions and what it does or does not say and do and it's like a
turnoff like if you stand for agency why aren't you speaking out against one of these most significant issues happening
in our day right now and and so again leaders of the church may have more insights Revelation Etc guiding these
things I'm just a Seline Observer but but I do worry about our church culture if we continue to go in this direction I
worry about the youth we're losing them we're hemorrhaging hemorrhaging our youth uh because we're not standing
strong uh 1995 president pres hinley introduces the proclamation on the family it's met with a collective shrug
mhm cuz everyone even Democrats at the time were like yeah yeah that's you know Hillary Clinton Barack Obama Joe B all
of them were like oh yeah uh men and woman marriage like it was It was kind of this Collective shrug like well of
course that's what we believe but right before what I would encourage people to go back and listen or or read that talk
right before he announces the proclamation of the family he says that we have felt to warn and forwarn about these issues because of the slow stain
of the world and I've loved that term I think I'm going to write a book uh titled the slow stain of the world
looking at all of the times throughout scripture where the people the God God's chosen people have kind of been slowly
indoctrinated and ingratiated with surrounding Babylonian whatever communities right and how that's
happening today where are the Watchmen on the tower like I would think it would be the leaders of our church maybe
there's some calculus as to why they're not but I think a lot of this boils down often times to appearance and image and
fear and and ultimately and I can totally relate to this uh and concede that this is a valid point keeping the
doors open for missionary work to happen if we stand up to the Soviets or if we stand up to the Nazis or if we stand up
to Fidel Castro or if we say this thing that the United Nations is going to get pissed about you know or whatever if we
take these strong stands then the door the missionary work becomes more difficult to which I say like okay I'll
concede that point but what is the point of missionary work if we are not flag planting and standing for the truth and
calling to us us the right people who are ready to build Zion I don't know that we necessarily should be in the
business of converting milk toast people who are not aligned with the core tenants of the Gospel I I'll stop
talking back over to you well again on the other side of that is is how many people are we not attracting right
because there's there's I I this is the way I see it
you've got you've got a a a a slow stain of the world right you've got a drifting current of Babylon that's getting f
further and further away from core principles order of the family order of God uh Etc
right there's this there there's of course president Nelson's uh um
admonition to to not excuse me to not be contentious right but that's something
very different from conflict right right if if if Babylon is moving Downstream and and you're going to be
paddling Upstream conflict is inevitable right it's absolutely inevitable yep and so if
you think that you know putting your flag down on your lawn is is a problem
because you're going to be contentious I would say that's not contention others
may be contentious about it but it is as president hinley said standing for
something yep and it it is standing against Babylon why can't you stand
against Babylon without without being contentious you've got the bright light bright City on a Hill MH right and
you've got a valley down below it if if if the light is dim or or if the hill is
low you're going to get confused between the valley and the hill sure right you've got to have you've got to have
something to look up to and to grab on to and to inspire you to move in a certain direction that
to me that's a big part of Hope right I want hope for something MH and and I I
feel like and again you say the leaders are uh there may be some calculus there
I I I have no doubt that there is I'm sure that there is but all I can do is look at what is this is this is what is
this is our condition and then try and figure it out because that's what we're left with
right now at this point is how do I figure this out what is going on because I get the messages from so many
different people coming in and saying why is there why isn't this being talked about why
isn't this brought up I just had a another uh guest in here um and she was
talking about transcend you you must transcend the culture right well if you're going to transcend the culture
again you're going to create conflict and you need to within the church and yeah and you yeah well
definitely within the church yeah and and you need to be aware of the
contrasts between inside and outside side of the circle you have to know those things yeah and if you don't know
those things you're going to get carried away with um you know again an untethered empathy and a malevolent
compassion was it the 80s or the 90s when the the the church encouraged people to not do study groups at home
you know and and that was leading to some apostasy and excommunications even podcasts now like I'm sure you get this
too you know the little countercultural messages that you share like I get people that are like oh you're soon going to find your way out of the church
whether voluntarily you're going to be pushed out and and and you know I am someone who has a very thick skin when
when that medical cannabis stuff was happening I had people like saying they wanted to come after my kids I had
people publicly claiming that the church had financially bribed me with $300,000 to negotiate with them uh all
kinds of horrible things said about me and and it just rolls off me I'm in politics I I don't care what all these
people are saying but I'm wired differently I think than most people I think most people is in our suburan
morban nice culture think that contention is of the devil it's not the spirit of contention is of the devil
that's what the scriptures say that when you take a stand for something that is inherently contentious to those who
disagree the wicked take the truth to be hard for it cut at them to the very center we've been commanded not to be slothful servants waiting to be told in
in all things which our culture is completely I think misaligned on you know wait to be told listen to the
church do what you're you know but stay within that bubble and that's about it we don't really have you know
encouragement or incentives or or a culture that that pushes people out on
their own to speak out on these issues and to you know do whatever um being anxiously engaged in a good cause
bringing to pass much righteousness there's all these individual mandates on members of the church but we don't
necessarily have the messaging that these members are getting that like yeah stand up do something even even if it's
not what the leaders are currently saying even maybe if it's a little different than what they're saying like let's raise our voices let's have these
discussions let's come and reason together to try and find the truth um that it's it's it's at odds with our
culture which is let's be nice let's not be contentious um we don't want to create enemies and the best way to
create enemies is to say nothing do nothing and be nothing you know I piss people off for a living but it means
that I'm doing something and I'm I'm marching forward down a field right some
people aren't going to like that but I'm not doing my job if I'm not creating some enemies along the way
and you know Jesus he he he he braided a
whip he didn't pick one up off the ground that he happened to see as he was walking to the temple like there's a
there's a proactive intentionality in what he was doing he braided a whip and
then went into the temple and up changed the money changers tables and whipped people I'm like I think we misunderstand
Jesus if it's this nice fru fru You Know peace all the time it's got to be about the truth it's got to be about
principles it's got to be about righteousness and that's going to be inherently divisive and we need to be okay with that I agree with that I I use
the term teddy bear Jesus that's where we're getting let me finish with this um the
rfma okay um church has uh put a big push out on that uh they were there on
the steps of what it the capital when it when it was passed um the idea there is
again an idea of the compromise with lgbtq community and and rights there and
and a Bol to Religious Freedom okay right so with the church what they
received was uh a a guarantee so to speak of
their themselves and their subsidiaries like BYU that would not be in trouble as
religious institutions for standing up for uh
their beliefs um that are often contrary to now what the pride movement would be
right but citizens members of the church left out in the dark left out in the dark it's
completely different so do you think first of all that the church should be involved in that kind of
lobbying uh and secondarily is that the right approach if it's simply and maybe
it is enough I don't know but it's if it's simply just for the church and protecting the
church I'm not at Liberty to say much here but I will share that I have it on very good author
Authority that this wasn't the church RIT large behind this like what happened
um to your question again I think the church as any organization has the right
and ought to engage in the issues of the day I I want them to be involved I'm not someone who says stop talking but uh I
think church leaders need to be far more fair Brokers about the power that they wield and for the reason that they wield
such a power IM balance because of that presumption of divine backing they need to be very careful about the issues that
they engage in um and you know I I I I
think they handled I I think so that that bill was modeled after the Utah compromise from a decade prior which we
opposed at the time and the reason we opposed both of them is I think the church has it completely wrong this isn't a religious freedom issue in fact
religious freedom doesn't exist religious freedom is this abstraction
predicated on freedom of speech freedom of
Association and property rights if you have the right to own a building own a piece of land and Associate there with
whom you want and say the things that you want that is the outgrowth of what becomes religious freedom being able to
act on your beliefs associate with other people have churches do worship all of that stuff that is an outgrowth of these
core freedoms and for the chur but by but but within writing though you've got the
first amendment I mean the first right am before it even gets to freedom of speech is freedom of Rel religion exactly well I I say this more
conceptually than Constitution so so sure they have freedom of religion but what is freedom of religion under the
First Amendment it's really all of those I think are interrelated freedom of assembly and speech I think they're all connected you're you rais a good point
though um but to me for the church to argue that this is about religious freedom as you said earlier it it tells
the rest of members hey if you own a business and you don't want this crazy trans whatever person for cultural
reasons or whatever your reasons are to be employed there you don't get any legal protections we the church as an
institution do but you got to take your ball and go home or if you're a landlord and you have moral objections to you
know renting your property to certain people well look if the church were defending property rights and freedom of
Association right that would extend to people who are religious non-religious Joseph Smith has this great quote I'm
not going to be able to quote off the top of my head but he says I he said he said something like I fight for the civil rights of all whether they're you
know pist or a Protestant or a Muslim or a muhammadan I think they call it you
know and he's like I I fight for the civil rights of everybody that to me is where the principle lies it's not this
like exclusionary we got to protect BYU so that we don't have to employ gay people it's it's again it's where's the
church speaking out on these core issues that are I think at the the core of Our Gospel DNC 134 talking about the kind of
freedoms and governments I think lays it out fairly well um that to me is where the church ought to be focusing its
resources that is also a very inviting flag planting for people who aren't members of our faith they'd be like hey
someone's standing up for our shared values yes like Joseph Smith standing up for the Muslim or what or the Catholic
um and if instead it's like we're going to we're going to protect our little Turf and all of you are left defending for yourselves without the resources
that we have as a church to get the positions that we want that's not a very inviting position to look like you're
kind of self-serving and just doing it for for your own organization yeah yeah it's a good point Conor thanks so much
for your time I appreciate your insights and your experience sharing all that where can people find you Sunday ms.org
or on YouTube Sunday musings if you look it up there I got a podcast or if you're interested I've got Tuttle twins books
and our liberatus Institute you can find all of that at Connor boo.com awesome appreciate it thank you