Walk - Yes, I "Know" The Church Is True - Polygamy Hornets Nest

Note: Since recording this episode, Michelle Stone has agreed to come on Cwic Show for a conversation.

Cruises 2025 - https://www.cwicmedia.com/momentum

Free Book - Putting On Christ - https://www.puttingonchrist.com/cwicshow

We all gain knowledge with experience in life. The scriptures tell us that our faith is built on "evidence" and this experiential knowledge.

Follow-up comments on my recent episode with Jacob Hansen on Polygamy.
Also, I have invited Michelle Stone on the show.

 Raw Transcript

all right let's go for a walk as you
know quick show is the official sponsor
for going do travel one of my favorite
uh trips with going do travel is the
momentum cruises the momentum cruises
are really something because you have
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are in January and February 2025 one on
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coast in the Caribbean uh would love to
see you there all right
see I'm walking through
a a Botanical Garden here in the desert
so there's a lot of different Cactus uh
you can see the uh fruit here the cactus
fruit that is something that we used to
eat in Mexico quite a bit when I was on
my mission so you would pull this fruit
put it into a blender throw some sugar
in it and uh it's it's pretty tasty
actually especially these red ones a lot
better than the green ones I want wanted
to talk about something that I hear a
lot that we get a lot in culture in our
Mormon culture so to speak that uh I
want to address and probably push back
on quite a bit when I was
younger uh I used
to uh hear some CR some CR some
criticizing of saying I know the church
is true and and and that has continued
through today and even gotten to be a
bigger deal I think right or it's like
no you can't say I know the church is
true no one can say I know the church is
true um but I'm going to push back on
that a little bit and not necessarily
with kids I think that with kids it's uh
it's probably the case that they ought
to be taught to speak more from the
heart about what they actually know what
they've felt what are good things you
know it's it's I understand you're kind
of training to some degree with kids but
you know what I've come to
believe is that it's best
to help them speak in a way that is
based on their own
experiences right I think that's a
that's a very big positive thing but as
for myself as an example I know the
church is true I can say
that and and we think in a modern
Western World and a scientific world
that that means okay I've got this proof
right this absolute physical and it's it
is a physical proof right that we're
we're speaking of that the church is
true and and I don't believe that that's
the way it works at all I have a not to
know is to have a knowledge and I do
have a knowledge of this right I want to
go back to Hebrews uh 111 right the the
the famous scripture on faith which says
now Faith is the substance of things
hoped for the evidence of Things Not
Seen I unlike some people believe that
faith is based on evidence that is
knowledge it's based on knowledge it's
not some blind you know Faith idea
that's uh completely nebulous that you
just decide you're going to believe on
something that to me is a mistake to
think that faith is is simply belief
it's not and and if you think it is
then my opinion you're wrong and so
faith is something that is built on
evidence if you go to Elma 32 you will
see that this is exactly like the
scientific formula where he says that
you need to try it out in fact he uses
the term
experiment you know use this experiment
and see if it doesn't work see if the
tree if the if the you know if you don't
nurture it if it doesn't grow within you
and and I believe that 100% you have to
prove these things you've got to try
them out for yourself and gain your own
own knowledge knowledge about these
things so I can't say that it that that
the church is true and I can't say that
I have a testimony and a
knowledge that Joseph Smith is a prophet
that the Book of Mormon is
true right the these are things that
that the temple is an essential Doctrine
in practice for
salvation these are things I know
because I have gone through them I have
that experience and a
familiarity uh uh with with those things
that's a knowledge so I have no problem
in fact I believe we should lean into it
even more as long as that's what we
actually have
experienced and have that knowledge of
right if not then talk about things you
do know talk about things that you have
had an experience with and and you know
I think the mistake comes when we push
things and everybody says I know this to
be true and and
let's talk about what you know
experientially what what what you have
put together in your mind through study
or through the Spirit uh Etc right but
secondly you know if you go to Ether
39 which is a temple experience if you
read it closely that the brother of
Jared is having up on the mountain with
the
Savior uh here's what 3:19 says and
because of the
knowledge of this man he could not be
kept from beholding within the
veil okay because of the knowledge of
this man he does have a knowledge we all
gain a knowledge as we go through life
we gain an experience and an
understanding of things and if we look
at Faith properly then we take
principles that we learn with the gospel
and we actually prove them we actually
try them out and say what are the
results going to be
you know and what if I go away from all
of these things and these orders what
does my life look
like th those are you know that that's
the idea of of by their fruits he shall
know them and I believe that's true
that's a knowledge you shall know by the
fruits he shall know I think that's very
important thing to see and lastly about
talking about the actual the true church
I know the church is
true I think that this is also true
if I look at Doctrine in covenants
130 which says that the only it says the
only that this is the only true and
Living Church upon the face of the whole
earth I believe that now that doesn't
mean there aren't truths in other
religions or cultures or anything else I
I do innerfaith work I think that that's
an important thing I do believe that and
there's a lot of goodness out
there um but it is the true church and
it is the only true church in the sense
that it is the only church that has the
authority it is the only church that has
the
priesthood and and so I also don't have
an issue with anybody saying
that and saying that it is the true
church right so a knowledge and a true
church I think that if we parse that out
break that down take a look at it
closely I think that for me
I lean into that and and and if I'm
bearing my testimony I'm going to lean
into those things and explain why
right okay I got to figure out how to do
this without that Sun hitting us too
hard here and watch out for these Palo
days because they are very very
thorny since moving here to Arizona 23
years ago I have had my fill of cutting
down palde branches they grow like weeds
these trees they just the mosquit and
the pales just grow like weeds now I
want to interject something here from my
friend Steph Bishop he's an author wrote
a book called putting on Christ we are
giving this book away for free if you
look in the description box there's a
link there you can click on it it's a
wonderful book about being born again
and and putting on the image of Christ
uh free absolutely free go to the
description box click on the link and
you will get your free copy of putting
on Christ all right now uh last one of
the last videos I did was on
polygamy and got a lot of controversy
there there was a number of uh
interesting interesting comments uh
there are people that are very
invested very invested
in believing that Joseph Smith did not
practice polygamy or believing that he
did on both size it's it's a it was a
brand new experience for me really I I
have never seen this
with with this issue before just how uh
how s you know I wasn't trying to stir
the pot I really wasn't but uh that's
what
happened and and so I want to just talk
about a couple of things here first
first of all a couple of the arguments
that are being made just from fresh eyes
on this because I am not an expert on
this at all I don't claim to be um but
just from some fresh eyes and looking at
a couple of the arguments if you are one
who believes that Joseph Smith did not
practice
polygamy just a couple of things number
one I saw a lot of people not just a
couple a lot of people that have
contacted me or that have have been in
the comment section that have said the
following well if you believe that
Joseph
Smith uh practice polygamy that must be
that you desperately want to practice
polygamy also that is a horrible
argument I'm just telling you it's a
horrible
argument believing that someone did
something or had to do something does
not mean that they want the same thing
so I'm just telling you would recommend
that if that is on the side that you're
on don't use that argument and don't
make those
statements because that's going to turn
people off completely because it's not
true there are very few people with any
experience in life men uh especially
included that want anything like
polygamy I I think that's just
ridiculous don't make that argument not
smart right like you can believe
something uh that may have happened in
the past without saying that that's
something that you want so just just
think about that a little bit secondly
there are a faction of those
individuals uh unfortunately for those
that don't go along with this but are on
the side that Joseph Smith didn't
practice polygamy
that are are are pushing against Brigham
Young was a prophet are pushing against
Russell M Nelson is a prophet are
pushing against Temple ordinances I know
that's not everyone all right I'm not
saying that but that's not a good look I
mean not for me I I I am one that
believes that Joseph Smith did practice
polygamy and I'm going to get to that in
a minute I mean that's probably nuanced
but but if you're pulling away from
those areas I am a faithful member of
the church not because I am a puppet not
because I I want to just follow along
like a sheep but because I believe but
because I have faith in certain things
and I'm going to fight to to defend the
church I sustain the Brethren I don't
agree with everything that they do I I
am part of a group of fallible
individuals all the way to the
top right and but but I am going to
support the church I'm going to fight
for the
church and and if you're coming in
telling me that the temple along with
these other with Joseph Smith not uh
practicing polygamy the temple doesn't
exist shouldn't exist never was a thing
with Joseph Smith now you've got me on a
different plane because that is not true
that is absolutely not
true and I mean the temple is everywhere
it's in the scriptures it's everywhere
in the scriptures it's all throughout
it's the first thing that Maroni really
is talking to Joseph Smith about when he
visits him in his room and he's quoting
Malachi 4 he's going right to it before
before Joseph Smith has even seen the
gold
plates so I'm I'm going to Egypt
tomorrow
and all over the place there in in Egypt
you're going to find the ritual Embrace
you're going to find the abrahamic
Covenant the uh Passage through
different degrees so many the Garb of
the priests I mean so many different
things that have nothing to do with a
more modern time that have nothing to do
with a Masons that have nothing to do
with the tropes that are thrown out
there to criticize the practice of the
temple it's
ridiculous I I so that's an issue for me
I'm just telling you
personally there is a faction of those
individuals that seem to go along with
this idea
that that that couple those things right
again I'm not saying that's everyone but
that I think is an issue and what's
interesting to me
is and and nobody talks about this but
these are teachings from the reorganized
Church of Jesus Christ of latterday
saints Now The Community of
Christ and somehow I think that a lot of
these thoughts and study and research
for their position and they have every
right to have that position but for
their position has leaked through the
internet and has gotten to a number of
people and a number of people have
grabbed on to these things all right so
there's a few major issues right number
one Joseph Smith Never practiced
polygamy number one right number two
Brigham Young is not a prophet that
would go down through Joseph Smith III
right and number three temples aren't
real and so those are teachings from a
different
church and that's fine if that that's
what you believe and and and you know
but I will tell you in the comment
section I've been doing this for several
years and you'll have people that are a
member of The Community of Christ Church
that will come in
acting because they'll talk about the
Book of Mormon they'll talk about Jesus
Joseph Smith Etc acting as if they are
LDS Latter-Day Saints and then little by
little
reveal that they are not right and they
start preaching these
things uh against Ram young against
temples against uh Joseph Smith ever
having polygamy and so it kind of turns
into a big mess it's a problem and and
and and I'm just throwing these things
out there so that people are aware that
look you've got to kind of find the
signal among the noise here right
there's there's there are a lot of
motivations from people here there are
also a number of people that just don't
like the church or have a problem with
the church and they may be and again has
nothing to do with politics it's people
on the left it's people on the right and
they want to push against the the q15
right and and they've got a problem with
them okay right that you've got a
problem I get it but but when you start
going in and and and trying to break
down these other doctrines I I just want
people to be aware of this know that
those people are out there and sometimes
they don't always lead with
uh their true intentions and their true
back background now having said that you
know it's interesting with polygamy
because you know when I'm someone talks
to me about polygamy I'll I'll go over
it and they ask specific questions about
it and again I'm not I'm not an expert
on this at
all but I'll typically go back and talk
about Joseph Smith and say look I mean
there's really not a whole lot of
evidence that Joseph ever consummated
any of these ceilings that he had with
others and you know maybe one maybe a
couple but it's it doesn't look like
there's much of this at all and maybe
none right maybe
none so that's something to keep in mind
uh you know if he was practicing
polygamy what does that really look like
what does that really mean in the life
of Joseph
Smith right secondly
the knowledge of the
ceiling and Temple work was raw it was
very new and so
it's there there's a general idea from
what I've seen if you guys you experts
in in church history if you want to
correct me on this please do but there
is this idea apparently looks like there
is of early church members
just wanting to get sealed not
necessarily married right not what we
would call maybe married Temple marriage
but I need to get sealed to somebody
else who's already sealed so you had all
of these people getting sealed and that
includes men getting sealed like Joseph
Smith or Brigham Young and others people
who were sealed because the idea is well
the family of God must all be sealed
through the temple
ordinances and ceilings back to God
himself and so the idea of the order of
family here on Earth inside of that
doctrine of ceiling is a little
ambiguous I believe and so we don't know
exactly how that worked with them and
what they did now obviously with Brigham
Young that completely changed he had
numerous wives he obviously consummated
those marriages uh marriages with those
other women so there is a difference
there's certainly a clear difference on
how that
manifested right how that was working so
I think people ought to keep that in
mind and understand that now again back
to the other
side I don't I it's not a good reason
for me I had someone say to me
um and and I get this kind of thing all
the time it's not that big a deal to me
but someone said to me who had been
listening to me for quite some
time uh boy I've got a totally different
view of Greg now right because he now
believes in this satanic practice that
Joseph Smith would do these satanic
things and you know again bad argument
bad
argument uh let's go back and look at
Abraham and this is what po is often
times in fact compared to is
the the sacrifice of Abraham and and
Sarah but Abraham is told to kill his
own
son right is that worse than
polygamy is that
satanic
uh there are trials that we need to be
put through and if I think that Joseph
Smith was put through some type of a
trial or the early church was put
through some type of a trial some
members put through these trials that
doesn't mean I believe it's a satanic
practice I think it's a horrible
practice I do it is a horrible
messy part of of
difficult um but that doesn't mean that
I want it and that doesn't mean that I
believe it's satanic
I think that's a bad argument too and I
think what those that those that believe
that polygamy never really should have
happened uh that it was not directed by
God I think that in looking at that
side you're trying to steal man your own
position by putting blame
and uh evil on those that disagree with
you just my thought on this I wouldn't
do that that's you know let's just look
at the record let's look at what we
believe um my issue with it also is look
I I don't believe that it would be
satanic if that's what God
commanded and I do believe that Russell
M Nelson is a prophet that he has the
keys and and I'm going to stick to that
so does that mean I'm not open to things
no I am open to things but I
I don't like the fruits of some of the
things and motivations of some of the
things that I see from those that argue
that of of what's been called polygamy
deniers and for me again ultimately if
you're going against what the Brethren
are going to be saying that's going to
be a problem that's a very high value
for a lot of members of the church and
that doesn't mean that they're just
sheep and that doesn't mean yeah that
they've looked into it and they've
studied this completely I certainly
haven't but I have really really good
reason to support and sustain the
Brethren polygamy is a very sticky
subject just some of my thoughts on this
thanks for listening