it's great to meet you great to talk to you I want to start off here uh I want to create a conversation on these things
uh let people Eaves drop a little bit but I want to start with a fall and and talk about why the fall is going first
of all what your what Your what your understanding of the Fall is and then secondarily how that tees up the
necessity for priesthood and for the temple now in my understanding as I go
through the fall I think you know first of all we have a we have the Tree of Life there where're now going to be
separated from this and I want to just go through a very brief uh synopsis of of setting the stage here with the fall
and and just tell me if you agree don't agree or or add to it all right yeah um
so Eve takes the fruit she is told by
Satan that she can do this because because she wants to become like the
gods yeah okay to me that's a truth right in protest antism and probably
Catholicism they believe that's also a lie yeah we believe that's a truth but
secondarily he says you shall not surely die right you're not gonna die don't
worry about it you've been told this but you're not g to die and in my mind anciently when they talk about death
they're talking in this case primarily about spiritual death secondarily about
Mortal death yeah and so what he's saying to her is you can go into mortality have your full Consciousness
if you will yeah um make full decisions and there's no consequence for this you
don't need to worry about judgment and spiritual death right
you're not going to be separated from God right so that's the lie and so she
partakes of the fruit they are going to be separated from God that creates the
fall and what happens after they both partake of the fruit is there's a new character that comes onto the scene
characters that come onto the scene in the Garden of Eden which are the Cherub and so the cheram come in they
are in my mind judgment and they're they're wielding the the the the the
sword of fiery sword that we say they're wiing the fiery sword in front of the
Tree of Life So Adam and Eve cannot get past that so if we looking at the Tree of Life as we do lehi's vision
then what we're looking at is something that they would be moving toward but now they're stuck they can't get there to the tree
of life because judgment is in the way therefore as we learn in the temple there is a savior that must be provided
at that time for them um but so there's going to be two deaths there is the
spiritual death and there is the physical death and now we need to be able to overcome both of these and be
able to get back back into the presence of God and be there with the Tree of Life we'll go into what the tree of life
means here shortly does that ring true to you is that along the lines of how you think about that yeah it ring it
does ring true and I mean of course you and I could probably sit and talk I'm sure if we were talking privately we
could probably do this for like 10 hours about like just the fall alone you know like there's so much there it's it's
it's like the first thing we get in scripture the first account we get of The Human Experience is completely
enshrouded in allegory and so unpacking that and there's reasons why it's an allegory I think
that there is depths and profound things happening that you have to be prepared
for and initiated into to learn about because them being separated from the
tree has so many implications that when they're coming
out of it to re to repossess the presence of the Lord is to partake of the tree from
a new state of being so they they come out they they go into a mortal structure and now they
which is very very purposeful because the one of the ideas is to come into a mortal structure is to now you're going
to obtain the tree in a new dimension from a new place of being and the re
obtaining of that tree changes you so fundamentally that it's actually the
thing that that capacitates you to obtain the same type of order life
ability as the father and that is something like one of the many ways we could describe this is
you're going to obtain it by your own free will and choice which means that you have to go into a state of
profound um disconnection from that source and then you have to choose and
obtain it through the process of coming back into the presence of the church tree or back and partake of it or back
in the presence of the Lord like um and I'd be interesting to see your thoughts on this I a lot of people disagree and a
lot of people who I respect a lot disagree with this perspective but I I believe the reunion re reun reuniting
with the tree um I couldn't decide if I was going to say reunion or reuniting uh the reuniting with the tree is the
second comforter it's coming back into the presence of the Son and the father
and the mother and you get all of that um begins to be outlined in things like Lehi Nephi's um
Vision dreams so you're coming back into the presence of the father you're you're
rep partaking of the fruit of the Tree of Life in a new dimension on new terms
and the way you do that produces something fundamentally in you so the
coming back is really a transformation process more than anything and so that informs how we understand Covenant how
we understand how Faith Works what salvation is and ultimately it's the way
that we should probably be talking about what priesthood is because priesthood is the order of individuals who are
ascending back into the tree of life or into the presence of the
father and that is one way and I believe it's a primary way that we probably
should be talking about priesthood okay that's interesting we're going to touch on that a little bit more as we
get into the the Ascension to the mountain or or going through the process of the endowment what what then to you
you've kind of described this a little bit what is the tree of life I mean if we're talking allegory let me back up one one second here the other thing I
think that's important for people to understand with with the the story of the allegory
as you put it of Adam and Eve is that this is a
vision and so for example when you look at the book of
Moses and Moses 1 where Moses is going through the battle this is all part of
the coronation process by the way this is all part of the royal procession he's going through the battle with the
adversary um he's told about all the worlds that are made and that but he's going to be told that I'm going to give
you I'm going to talk more about the world that you are on and and and so
he's he's being he's in this vision and immediately then after that it goes right into the creation story yeah right
so he's in a vision on Mount Si and he is seeing this with what I would say is
visionary language and symbolism yeah he's essentially getting the Book of Genesis by Genesis by Revelation at this
point yeah and see that's the the the the I think one of the biggest plain and
precious things that is removed from the Bible is starting off where Genesis does
and say saying in the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth now there's a lot of profound information in
that first verse but yeah but it it it immediately puts in a Christian's
mind that oh this is the beginning right this this is where everything starts yeah right and and and
and then it's all a history that goes on through C Adam and Eve can and Abel and
then down into Abraham and that's not what's happening right right the Genesis
the beginning of Genesis the creation story and the Adam and Eve stories that this is Temple liturgy yes this is a
vision that is given to Moses for the Tabernacle that he is going to build
when he comes back down from Mount siai 100% okay one is essentially Genesis
chapter zero yes yeah exactly and it gives you the context to understand
what's really happening here so it's not a history that doesn't mean the events
don't happen but it is visionary language and it is put into an allegory
because it must be in spiritual language for us yes so that we can see ourselves
as Adam and Eve yes and then we That's History yeah like I can't agree with you
more yeah that's so secondarily you go to Abraham and I'm going to go into my dbr thing here in a bit but if you go
into Abraham 3 first and and you say okay what what does Abraham 31 say it
shows you that Abraham is looking through the UR and Thum all right so he goes through the
whole idea with those crazy names of planets the Egyptian names the Hebrew names and kab and cabam Etc and then he
comes down and talks about a parallelism with spirits but while he's doing that
he's simply setting up the creation story and and and and he immediately
then goes over into the creation story and then the Adam and Eve story so Abraham is looking through the UR and
Thum having a vision of the creation story and the Adam and Eve story
also so it is an allegory because it's like you know if I'm reading about the
visions of Ezekiel or or Isaiah or or John in in the Book of
Revelation I have to if I don't understand that this is a vision I'm
going to lose all meaning oh yeah and this is why in 93 it says you too
shall receive the record of John or ether three or three and four when Moses
um sorry Moroni is saying hey all you Gentiles if you come forth as the brother of Jared did you too will obtain
the things the brother of Jared saw which is this theophany that you're laying out and even I don't want to Rift
too much on this or maybe we shouldn't go down this rabbit hole but like even you say the Y and thumb with Abraham um
it's essentially the connections are more more than strong when we talk about things like the true order of prayer in
In Our Own endowment that is essentially the Y and Thum um and and so what we are doing is
we are being given the order pattern and for lack of a this is a really crash term but the technology so to speak the
tools the principles to obtain for ourselves as the the same theophany that is that is in awaiting
for us if we fulfill the order in the which the way that we're invited to so amen 100 times to how you laid this out
like this is exactly so so then let me with that in mind what do you see what is the tree of
life or what does it represent big it's like the biggest question well let me just suggest a
couple ways of thinking about it that are not going to even scratch at the surface but like that let's just say
first and foremost it's the presence of mother and father um it's it's the fullness of be
it's the fullness of being um and when you partake of the fruit of the fruit of the tree of life
it's sort of like this is why Elma 32 by the way is a parallel endowment text
which is a weird thing to kind of point out because Elma 32 is doing the same thing as Lehi and Nephi's dreams where
the seed is being planted he's taking you through how you obtain the seed
which is basically like kind of thinking about like the the the lowest part of the fall from the tree the seed goes out
it gets planted and it grows up within you so that when you are reunited with
the tree of life it's because as it says in in Elma chapters 32 and 33 you become
a tree of life that Springs up forth from within you you are you bear the fruit of the father you know the fruit
is the son it's the daughter and when when when Nephi sees it he he's asked
the question by the spirit of the Lord Lord just thou knowest the meaning you know of the tree he gives him what feels like the
most generic sometimes generic in my past I felt this generic like it's the love of
God you know so people say well it's just the love of God what do you mean it's just the love of God like the love of God is the is Jesus Christ um the
love of God is mother like if we don't understand how mother is wrapped up and
she is the fabric of this thing we are going to be missing major components and so you know we
could talk about the tree of life I believe it is the reuniting both of your true Eternal
self and reunited with the father in physical and spiritual form in a
Sanctified state so that you can obtain a free flow of light and Truth all that is his into you and you enter into that
theophonic to perceive existence and your participation in it and how you
will then become someone who gives a seed as well you you become a tree of life and you will you will uh fulfill
that pattern into perpetuity into eternity so I know we're I'm talking in a lot of weird Dimensions here but the
tree of life is is life itself but it's the father it's the mother it's it's Christ it's you it's it's it's coming to
the top of that mount where you are reunited with all things that live in that and operate in that
fundamental Dimension that orders all existence so yeah what is the tree it's it's the it's the it's it's where Heaven
and Earth meets it's where your body and spirit meets it's where you meet the father it's where you meet the mother it's where it's all of it so let me add
a little bit to that sorry did I get to what you think of this I I agree with I think almost all of that
um so I I I see uh lehi's Vision his
dream yeah as the second half of the
Adam and Eve Story the camera right here Adam fell that men might be right and men are be and are are the same verb and
and and men are that they might have joy yeah coming back up here okay so it's
the Plan of Salvation and the the Garden of Eden story is the
fall and the Lehi vision is the process of getting back to the Tree of Life as
we reach out to him and and move forward right and then we're told about all of
the you know the way we need to do that and what we should expect in terms of
difficulties in and being able to get back to it but one of my favorite chapters is first Nephi 11 and this is
where the Angelic host is guiding Nephi through lehi's dream and then he goes
beyond that later on into the future and his descendants and whatnot but what he
goes over there is the the focus of that chapter is the condescension of God and
it's interesting because as you start off with chapter 11 it's all about the tree right that's the focus it is the
tree and the Angelic host says do you believe in the tree and that your father
saw which is a really interesting question you know Nephi writing this probably about 40 years later yeah and
putting this in here and and trying to put it into context into how he's setting up first and second
Nephi he why would that be the question why is he qualifying Nei with
the question of do you believe in the tree that your father saw you believe that your father saw the tree yeah and
and now there's a lot of assumptions that can be made about
you know was the tree thrown out of the temple for example oh with the with
Josiah and the uh well it's not jiah Josiah's gone uh is it Josiah at that
time I think it's later than Josiah I wonder trying to remember it's the deuteronomist right it's a stripping of the tree stripping down and and there's
precedent for this right if you go back to you go back to uh Isaiah and
Hezekiah there is another Temple object that is thrown out of the Temple
at that time it is the nushan okay and the nushan is the Brazen serpent oh okay
right so the Brazen serpent is removed as an object out of the temple what does
the Brazen serpent represent right it represents
Christ why are they removing this from The Temple at that time right to me
that's a a statement it is a message and whether it is the priesthood and the temp Temple that is corrupt and or it's
just the people that are changing the meaning of what this is which is kind of how it alludes to in in uh um I don't
remember that's Chronicles or Kings but it's it's it's it's Christ it's taken
out so if you come down to this period of re Reformation after the after
Josiah's reforms and now you have Jeremiah talking about how everything is corrupt the priests the prophets the
doctrine the temple the ordinances Etc it's the heartbeat of what Jeremiah's saying yeah I mean was the tree removed
and that would make a lot of sense if it was if there was another tree perhaps a large manora that is in the holy of holies or
at the veil and is removed and now this is why
Lehi is having this dream yes right it's like wait a minute okay so in Jerusalem
there is a great fall to the theocracy or the Theology of of the people of God
God and they remove the Savior and Redeemer of the world out of the
doctrine as I talk about it they they flatten the hierarchy right into Jehovah
there's no Elohim there's no mother there's no son right right there's no in
many cases angels are hosts of of God and so they take this
and they you know you have to remove this because now they call it an
ashra which is you know most of us will look at that as the goddess of fertility
of the Canaanites but that's probably a Corruption of true
doctrine of a mother right and so they remove this because of course if you
move remove the mother you remove the son right you can't have a son without
the mother and and so you you take this out and now this is why he's having this
dream about the tree being replaced placed and this is actually where you have to get back to you've lost it in
Jerusalem you're leaving Jerusalem and and now you we need to show you we need to get back to the
tree point now in chapter 11 I'm going long here but in chapter 11 the condescension is the central part of
this and and and and the angel says do you know the condescension of God as he tries to explain what the tree is yeah
and then he goes right to Mary and talks about Mary and and so the
condescension is his birth to Mary right but then when he gets done with that he asks it again do
you know the condescension of God it's like why are you asking this again and he goes to the bapt his
baptism right and and showing how this is a condescension because it's a way we really do need to look at baptism is
that you're being lowered down yeah it's a death it's it's a death and it's also
a a humbling or a condescension right and so it's an
immersive death it's an immersive death right yeah and and so here he is you
know condescending again through baptism and then when we understand that that is tied directly to what the the the
doctrine of Christ is because a baptism is condescension and Faith would be
condescension in something greater than you yeah and and receiving the Holy Ghost as you sit down and people are
above you coming down to you with their hands on your head giving you the Spirit
yes right and then enduring to The End by following the Commandments right then
you see what the tree of life then becomes this idea of condescension which sets it up
perfectly just you know you will be you condescend and lower yourself and take on the burdens of
others as Christ did so when you get baptized you take on the name of Christ
you enter into the order of Christ after yeah you enter into his order but you're
you're you're taking on his name and doing what he did which is
condescend and when I say condescend I mean I mean bearing the burdens of others elsewhere in the book other
places in the Book of Mormon you'll see that that's part of the baptismal Covenant is to Bear the burden of others
just opposed to the opposite side of the chasm or or the river you have the tree
the the great and spacious building which is the exact opposite it is lifting yourself
up and there's going to be a great fall whereas the tree of life is no you're going to condescend like Christ which
actually just means love right right and then and then you are
exalted so this gives you this this squaring of
oh I can understand how this applies to things I can understand how this applies to life and and and it adds some context
and meaning to what the tree of life is oh absolutely in fact to your to your point a moment
ago about the hierarchy and how modern Christianity or modern Judaism collaps
this hierarchy the hierarchy of the priesthood the of the orders of condescension are really orders like
whoever's the the greatest has the capacity and willingness to go the
lowest and this is like in DNC 50 when it says you're appointed to be the greatest nonetheless you're the least
and servant of all um that's not flowery language that's that's very it's very um
uh specific principled language um so when we when we come to this earth and
we come in a covenantal way um you know the noas the
Enix the the Peters the Paul's the Josephs the Isaiah they go through condescension in order to to to go low
to bring bring up with them a fruit right or to to come and plant fruit or
bring a PO there's a there's like 50 ways you can talk about this depending on what scriptural Paradigm you want to
use but it's all condescension and you go with Christ do you mind if I share
something that I sort of was an epiphany last week and I just want to suggest it
sure um about this and I think you began talking about the the man in the white robe and that he's that Lehi Encounters
in the beginning of his experience this has been as you know like a discussion around the internet
and different people saying who's that person is he good is he bad what is this what is this what's going on here right
and I've never felt actually that comfortable on either side of those questions like I can really see an
argument for both and so I've been meditating on this question for a long time like six or seven
years last week something occurred to me and I want to kind of just see if it tastes good to you Greg because I think
it because I think it um I think it really compliments what you just laid out uh regarding the temple and the
deuteronomist and the and the taking away of the The Serpent and and the tree
and it's something like this if priesthood is an order that has to
whatever degree you have this order you have the ability to bring people into possession of the tree of life like it's
the order of individuals who go through the condescension and who can manifest the type and and power of Jesus Christ
to the agree that they can so like when the law of Moses happens you have the Lesser priesthood that's
institutionalized which gives you the forms and patterns that if someone wakes up and they fulfill those patterns then
they can obtain the tree of life but it's not being given in the fullness which we would call the mestic priesthood this is why people like
Isaiah and Jeremiah these these people in between Moses and Jesus Christ in
that Moses dispensation Joseph Smith says they all received the mestic priesthood by virtue of the mouth of the
father direct ordination because they couldn't get it from the M from the levitical priesthood does that make
sense so like even Lehi Lehi has the milisic priesthood the question is how
does he obtain it because he can't get it through ordination um I me it's mind-blowing to
even think about this think about Alma 13 what's happening there that's an oses dispensation uh this this type of priest
of Doctrine that's being laid out so let me zoom out again real quick so the the
jewi structure in the day of Lehi in 600 BC in time of Jeremiah they had an order of the priesthood that could get Lehi to
a certain point but for Lehi to obtain the tree he has to obtain the greater priesthood and this is Joseph Smith 101
this is DNC 84 right so when I believe when he sees
this man in the white Robee I don't assign good or bad to him I believe he
represents the level of the order of the structure in which he then possesses
who's leading him and at some point he gets to this point where he realizes he's just treading water in this in this
in this maybe this dystopian uh what what does he describe
it as it's the um dreary world right and then he calls out and then he's brought
to the tree independent of this individual I think this individual I'm not going to say represents good or bad
I just think it represents the order of the pries in which Lehi possessed when he makes a direct connection to the
tree then he it's like he draws a line to it he he he draws he has connection
to it now so he can turn around and he looks at his pot he looks at Nephi he looks at his wife he looks at Layman and
lemel and now he has a direct connection that he can draw his family into the
tree it's a patriarchal mezic priesthood that he establishes and this is why Nephi goes
boom he's into the tree Jacob you are blessed Jacob in your youth youth you you beheld your your savior your
Redeemer in your youth right because Jacob goes in fast enus goes in Fast and
essentially he's brought to the promised land both metaphorically and and
literally with a new mesic priesthood line even though they couldn't give it
by ordination and I think this is why Lei Lehi and Nephi are having the their
endowment Visions because that's how you would obtain it
so I just spit out a lot but I think it compens what you're saying about the order of the priet at
the time they stripped these things out and therefore he had to obtain it independent of that structure yeah that
could very well be I don't so would if that were the case though would everyone
who received you know Alma 13 who received the mesic priesthood after that receive it in the same way or are they
receiving it from Lehi to Nephi and everybody else I think they're receiving it the same way and this is what Joseph
Smith says he's asked how did how did those people during that just I just pulled the quote and he says they were
they were ordained they all had the milkes priestes and they were ordained by God himself that's like that's I think the direct quote this is why in Al
13 it says this has this really interesting cryptic language it says they were ordained after a manners
people would know how to come unto Christ so I don't maybe they had a
laying on of hands but a laying on of hands is really like sort of a a covenantal structural um authorization
to be able to give this like we have now MH right that's unique I think pretty to
our dispensation um they couldn't do that back then fact fact Lehi wasn't even a levite he wasn't even the
Priestly class he's from Messiah Manasseh and so it's it's fascinating
like you have Lehi out there establishing a direct connection to the tree of life and he is not even a high
priest in that structure of course Moses gets the gets the priesthood the mckisic
priesthood from Jethro um Poss yeah I mean it's from his father-in-law right but really what he
gets it from is what you quoted in Moses 1 because he's being brought to the top of the mount well first he gets he gets
introduced at the bush then he's being brought to the top of the mouth like two weeks later then he goes to the
condescension with Satan and then he says there's more I have to inquire and then he gets back to the top and he says
you will command the mighty Waters as if that were God that's a fullness of the priesthood that's wording around the
fullness of the priesthood like like that's sealing power so he's having the theophany so this is the pattern of
Genesis 14 jst when it says all who receive the fullness of the priest to obtain it from the mouth of the Lord
himself like you can't receive it through 14 is that Abraham and mkis yeah
yeah exactly yeah and it's in the jst so he goes through and he talks about how that is received
so um so when we do a laying on of hands in ordination ordination really is an
initiation into the order it's not the fullness of that order so you're being ordained to it
you're being you're being initiated into and really what the L on of hands does is it gives you the right to officiate
in the outward ordinances of the mesic priesthood so like you're 19 you get the mezic priesthood you can go get people
the ordinance of the gift of the Holy Ghost okay let's let's take that and
move it over to the temple specifically um what do you see in the structure of
let's start with initiatory endowment and then maybe marriage and
ceiling there we start off as an example there there is a I think you
call this a calling um in the initiatory where we're
we're kind of told you're not being made a high priest you're not being made a high priestess you're not being made a
king you're not being made a queen but we're kind of preparing you for that
right we're we're setting you apart in a sense to to become this if you're
faithful basically yes and so for me you know I I have this little
principle I talk about that which is the procession the Royal procession and I view this endowment process as a royal
procession and the crowning event is actually the ceiling where you're getting married you that's right that's
where you actually the high priest and high priestess can be done okay we probably
around the veil but you're getting further than that the queen and king is
actually where you're getting married yeah and it's actually even beyond that I think it's the second anointing is the fullness which happens in the which is
the next succession where the woman actually does it to you which we don't talk about much but
yeah yeah yeah okay so anyway um going
through this I you know I I see it as the same process that that probably
happened with the ancient Israelites there was a an annual uh Temple drama that occurred uh
probably in my mind the Feast of Tabernacles others would say it was uh Passover uh but it's you know it's the
same thing that Jesus is doing when he gets on a donkey and he comes in from the East end up going to the temple it's
a royal procession and that's why you get all the verbiage in those that last week of his life about him being the
king yes right it's a coronation yes and um of course he's not crowned in the
temple because for him he's not the king that is acting as Jehovah he is Jehovah
and he has to actually go through the process of the garden the cross and Resurrection he renss the veil of the
temple I mean it's yeah it's all there yeah yeah exactly so that's how I see this is that it's all a a process of a
royal procession that we're going through and we start off being told about being king and queen and high
priest and high priestess to launch us onto that Royal procession and so in
that Royal procession is to me the we get the scriptures you know there's always this
funny thing about John the Baptist in the scriptures where he's all he's
mentioned over and over again either directly or indirectly he's in first Nephi 11 and why why you're talking
about the tree why is it why is John the Baptist in here what does this have to do with anything he's mentioned in Isa
in Isaiah 40 you've got him in uh what is it Zachariah and and and I think Malachi yeah Malachi 3 and so so what
what is this you know why does this matter so much and why is he always tied together with Christ and and and it's
not just his baptism that we're looking at with this I I think that this Royal
procession when we get the verbage of um John the Baptist is one crying
repentance in the wilderness repentance is an ironic priesthood function right anything to do with the
Commandments repentance obedience those are things that we do to reach to God
that's an ironic priesthood function of the carnal priesthood um but he's also to we're
also told that he's the one that's going to prepare the way it's the Preparatory priesthood yeah he's making the path
straight he's making the path straight and what is the path what is the way it's the way of the
King right he's preparing this way for Christ to come in and and and be the one
who is the mzc the prince of of the king of righteousness or the Prince of
Peace uh to um bring in the mesic priesthood well we go through the same
process in the temple we're going to go through the ironic priesthood
first preparing us for the mezc
priesthood and coronation as we get there and so I think that's a really
important thing to understand to put this into a capsule to see the process of of what is happening and tie it to
the scriptures the scriptures speak about this Temple drama and about what
we do as a temple drama today all the time and I don't think that we always
recognize that oh no if you don't know if you don't understand like in the way
that you're Illuminating this that it's a pattern it's a coronation pattern or it's an adoption pattern or it's you
know all these different ways that you can like even with a coronation coronation is is the acknowledgement of a of a of a bloodline
inheritance arising into the place of your father MH right um it's it's a it's
it's that it's that adoption in to that that that family line obtaining the name of the father and all the names that you
need to obtain in preparation for that um so yeah the
scriptures particularly The Book of Mormon is a temple text it's just it's
almost one endowment pattern one coronation after another and if you
start to understand that what the it really is you'll just see it everywhere like it's it's
replete it is everywhere I want to talk a little bit more about now you bring up priesthood and and for the audience here
if if if you haven't studied this but the priesthood really is held in the temple yeah right in other words we talk
about in section 84 the you know the manifestation of the of the of the mesic
priesthood is the ordinances being manifest in the temple that's that's what it is that is the we must have that
that authority to get through the Covenant path and and have the metaphor so to speak of of the Plan of Salvation
to your point though about DNC 84 I mean I think it's sort of and I I know it's kind of cavaliere to say this
but it's a major mistake that we always say where's the oath and Covenant of the priesthood in DN c84 like I remember as
a youth we'd study the oath and Covenant of the priesthood well there's no oath and Covenant of the priesthood in DN c84
it's just talking about it it's just teaching about the oath it's not the actual oath the oath and Covenant of the
priesthood are the covenants and Oaths obtained in the temple endowment that's
where that's where the oath and Covenant of the priest it is like and that just making that
singular Focus go back to the temple you really see that the endowment is a is a priesthood
endowment it's where you go to obtain the order of the priesthood and the covenants that actually manifest that in
reality and if you look at it that way then you say okay well if there's a preparatory
priesthood for the mezic priesthood and that is a temple
pattern then my biggest pet peeve of all people that listen to me know this is
the Preparatory priesthood the ironic priesthood is not the Preparatory priesthood to prepare young men to receive the mesic priesthood no we we
repeat this over and over and over again it's not if we're pulling oursel away
from the temple when we state that it is has nothing to do with the boys nothing
it has to do with priesthood and the temple yeah and so when we are using the
Preparatory priesthood it is preparing the way for the mezic priesthood
function to come in for the King right and once you tie it to the
temple yeah like strictly speaking I think it's in 107 the the Lesser priest
it is the forms it's the outward ordinances so so this is a weird way to put it but we practice the Lesser
priesthood even when we do mezic forms like if you do a mezic endowment or even a marriage cealing when you get sealed
in the temple as you're a 22y old kid
um that's a that's an ironic pried actual ordinance so to speak because you're doing the form that's that's
initiating you into or like you say preparing you for the real
thing and you have to have both you have to have both right it's you know just like Joseph Smith and and the priesthood
he doesn't just have Peter James and John come in with a mestic priesthood and say Here's everything yeah it's body
and spirit you have that both it's it's Genesis 1:1 is you've always have to have those two
things together that is the purpose of what we do in in the Plan of Salvation it's the purpose of God yeah it is the
physical and the spiritual it is the Heaven and the Earth it is bringing those things together the husband and the wife husband and the wife yeah
exactly that's what the temple is a temple is the is the middle Place Between Heaven and Earth right it's the
it's the com it's the place where those two things meet it's the overlap it's it's where Heaven is established on
Earth it's where this the physical and the Spirit come together that's why we get sealed there that's why we we we
meet the Lord in the temple yeah what now you you talk a lot
about you know places where the pr priesthood seems to not be mentioned at times but what is mentioned is the word
order yeah and um talk about that a little bit yeah you know like when we
look in uh I'm G to DNC yeah it's 107 in the beginning of 107 where it gives you
the actual name of the priesthood and he says it's after the order of the high the Son of God I I can't remember
exactly so um priesthood is priesthood actually is just an order so depending
on Whose order you're in it's kind of the priesthood you're in like whether you're a doctor whether you're a you're
a levite whether you're of the order of Jesus Christ like Moses where he's
actually in the order or the pattern of ascending into the presence of the Lord
which is the purpose of the mesic order mesic order is the order of
Ascension into the presence of the Lord like that's like definitionally what the
mezc priest is it's the power that can bring you into his presence while in the flesh this is why in
d84 Moses um it literally says that you can bring he wanted to bring the children of
Israel to the top of the mount into the presence they rejected it they wanted
Moses to go on his behalf so they so the Lord took the greater priesthood and Moses away from them which was this sort
of um official or ordained path through
the structure I I don't want to go into that too much but that's what that was and so
he gave them the Lesser forms which you would practice and rehearse hopefully to
awaken you to the real thing which is what we do in our temples like we go through these endowments endless endowments because we're giving an
endowment to every person who ever walked on the earth it's like the best way to get people to go to it to
rehearse this this this practice this play they're doing
hopefully to wake them up to say wait a second this should be being manifest in
reality um so sorry to back into the question or the point you brought up
though um the the the priesthood of of of mzc is the order or pattern of
ascending into the presentence so if you understand that that's the pattern that's what an endowment is then you can
you can start anywhere in the scriptures and start going through like my goodness that's what's happening to Lehi that's
what's happening to Nephi Jacob literally says let us not uh upset the
Lord by bringing down another provocation and not going into the rest of the Lord let us seek to have a
perfect knowledge of Christ like Jacob is the clearest about this enus does the
same thing en en's prayer is an endowment you get to Alma mosiah 26 when
he the Lord he hears the voice from the Lord he's he's conversing with the Lord through the veil as we would say in our
endowment I'm I mean anyway I don't need to keep rehearsing it but the the point is is that the entire Book of Mormon is
an endowment structure pattern over and over and over and over and over again that teach what is order then I mean
what you know explain what is priesthood or what is order yeah an order is like a is like a pattern and the pattern of
something so like if like a good metaphor is was like uh you you apply to
medical school and I get into medical school so I'm being inducted into an order on the front end of which as I go
to school and I obtain the knowledge and I obtain all the skills and I do all the requisites and take the tests and do all
the things they require of me at the tail end of that I fulfilled this order
of doctors so that I am I I'm I am of this order that has this ability to do
medical things or doctor things so to speak uh Boy Scouts is an order military
is an order uh being a lawyer being a plumber um is there orders that give you
endowments of of something the order of the Son of God the mezic priest it is
the order of individuals who are fulfilling the pattern of coming into his presence and reuniting with the Tree
of Life in mortality that that goes I I I've I've I've talked to you
before a little bit about this but that goes directly to my idea of of dbr right is when I talked about
in in in lehi's time where they flattened the
hierarchy um I would say it's pattern is a good word but I would also say
hierarchy yeah right an order that's that's an order there's a pattern or there's a hierarchy the pattern of the
hierarchy yeah pattern of the hierarchy that's got to be in place and that that's what it is it's an order so as
you said in 84 7 it's uh you know the mesic pries the PE priesthood after the
order of the Son of God you go through certain things and you've got to be ready for it the children of Israel were not ready for it they would not go
through what they had to do to be able to receive that and the Lord's not going to give you something because it's going to damn you
quite frankly if you're not if you're not ready for that right but uh you know dbr is interesting
because it is there's the idea of the logos which is the word
and John in John chapter one right he is famous especially in Christian circles where where John is calls Jesus the word
and and it's tied directly to Creation in that and then later on he actually goes and brings John the
Baptist in there too but it's it's it's tied to creation and this order that is
being created he I do not believe we typically most will go back and look at
John chapter 1 and look at logos at the idea that actually the Greeks gave
us which which is something very different it is a representation of usually a single
individual that that would be responsible for this order but it's not the order
itself right so there's a there's a Philo talks about this and and you go back through Greek philosophy you see
all of this to me it is a Corruption of what actually exists originally if you really study the scriptures and you go
back and look at what order is or and the reason I'm coupling order with word
is it's it's it's the both of them have dbr I better start with that dbr is the
root the three-letter root Hebrew root for the word word logos in Greek it is also the
three-letter root for the word order D found Psalm 110 you'd find it there a
Temple text um it's also the the root for the word
speak in fact this is close to the what what the Jews call uh the book of
Deuteronomy uh and and then it's also for be which is representing an
order and priesthood right so you have Deborah which is the woman of the bee basically
the woman of the order and and then lastly and probably most importantly it is it is the root
for the word for the holy of holies de beir right so you've got all of these
things in place of this dbr that really represent the logos that really represent what the word is and you go
then and you take that and you say Okay order then as you are explaining is a
pattern of a hierarchical structure that we fit into
right we are part of it so if I go back to Abraham
3 where there is a representation of the creation and then paralleled with spirits and they are these two facts
exist these two facts exist one above the other you're you're create he's he's saying there is order yes there's an
order here he he explains it through creation and the planets first and and
then comes down and explains it about spirits and then talk talks to Abraham and specifically tells him you are one
of the great Noble ones he's showing him exactly where he fits in the order right where where he is so take
that go back to lehi's time and understand that they flattened the
hierarchy yeah they remove they remove the context they
remove the priesthood yeah they remove most importantly our particip
ation in that idea of the of of what we get in Abraham 3 and in the temple yes
which is Elohim Jehovah to Michael at first and then Elohim Jehovah Peter James and John
which is just a a representation of the prophets that level of of that level of hierarchy yeah
and then Adam and Eve which is us right so right that in and of itself Abraham 3
and and what we get in the temple is is restoration scripture of the loss of the plain and precious things 100% I mean
even let's take it even in let's Deep dive for two seconds into One Direction on that you know with this hierarchy
it's like this Cascade of light out of heaven like comes from the father to the son to to Jehovah to Michael to Peter
James like you just described right uh I know this is probably the least thing that people talk about in
the entire church but I'm going to say it even though it it gets people a little wigged out the true order of
prayer is you just being placed in that hierarchy yes that's why it's called an
order it's an order it's a true order of prayer you're being ordered like like the word is coming from the father down
through to the the Peter who's in the center of that Circle and then we're repeating the word or we're obtaining
the word and being ordered the word that comes from the father in that in that event yeah I and
that's beautiful I will say I disagree with you on who's in the center of the circle but James we could talk about that another time well whoever's well
it's whoever's in the hierarchy that you're being ministered to it's John the Baptist well so I I'm I'm great with
that like because it's kind of where it's it's whoever you're obtaining from so like when when Abraham goes to get a
priesthood he goes to mzc mzc gives him a Sacrament they come
into they come into a synchronicity he's giving him um oh boy this just it just
happens everywhere like um this is this is Lehi to Nephi he's obtaining it and
then Lehi is getting the vision because he's and this is why Nephi in third in second Nephi 31 which by the way is the
doctrinal explanation of these dreams and he says which was that which where
was that second e531 the doctrine of Christ chapter there is a doctrinal explanation of what's Happening he says
to a frustrated L and lemel if I remember right you know you you inquire
you ask what we should do once we get to this point of being born again and going through the gate he says the Holy Ghost
will teach you all things which ye shall do and then he says I still perceive you don't get what I'm trying to say to you
and then he says the the um then the Holy Ghost will teach you what to pray
then you'll speak with the tongue of angels what's happening in this true
order pattern is that we are speaking in the tongue of the angel or the
minister that's a I mean you can't make the stuff up and you're actually they're going
through the order of the priesthood yes and that's what's happening in third Nei 19 he says they don't multiply many
words for it's given unto them what they should pray right in 351 19 like when Christ is
with them and they're and they're resonating in white like he's resonating so this word is literally being planted
in them and they're becoming in that resonance there and in that hierarchy like you you describe I I'm sorry I get
so excited people who go after the Book of Mormon and say oh there's there's horses in it
it's like oh my goodness yeah there's also like endowment like you don't get what's
happening here yeah or how is the fullness of the Gospel in Book of Mormon from Fu Joseph Smith he writes it like
1829 are you kidding me yeah like anyway sorry I won't yeah yeah that's you know
very true you know that that whole order and that uh hierarchical structure you know
people get a little upset at me when I say this but I call it God's patriarchy oh it's it is a it is the patri it is a
it is God's patriarchal order literally and if we fulfill it the the
matriarchy will be manifest will be revealed um and it's just as powerful
yeah there's a reason why the sisters are separated from the men in that endowment yeah abs and then and then
ultimately in ceiling joined yes yeah but they go through single and SE SE they reive the oath and Covenant of the
priesthood independent of their husbands until they're prepared to come and be sealed I I want
to back up a little bit and talk about this doctrine of Christ here to start off with faith repentance baptism gift
of the Holy Ghost enduring to the end what how how would you describe Faith uh well I would describe it as
well as I could matching what Joseph Smith said and you know this is probably a discussion all in itself but the
lectures on faith is the doctrine of the church meaning if if you really catch what Joseph's doing and and I think a
lot of your audience will probably recognize that though leers of Faith was the doctrinal portion of the Doctrine
and Covenants right like it was that's when we say Doctrine and Covenants leers of Faith was the doctrine yeah the
covenants are the revelations the doctrines was the lecture Faith so if you look at lectures on faith he's
giving you this full Arc of endowment in that book he's starting out saying this is where you start and this is what it
will become as you fulfill it and it's entering into the presence of the Lord It's obtaining the promises so faith is
um to to try to articulate as quickly and as succinctly as possible faith is
the Lord revealing something to you that is true not not fact informationally
true but inlightened truth you recognizing it because it has light and because it has light you yield
to it and then because of you're yielding you obtain the truth of it so
true faith will always increase your knowledge this is what Elma 32 is
teaching your TR if you obtain the word you will have knowledge so the knowledge you
obtain through acts of faith is the current level of faith that you actually
have because you know how it works and you've obtained so much knowledge of God and you keep in that process that is the
endowment that is the doctrine of Christ CHR fully contained in in that
pattern does that make sense I don't yeah yeah that makes sense would
you would would you say it is trust yeah yeah it's learn trust I mean
100% like the whole idea of faith is that you're obtaining something you don't have and so how do you recognize
the thing that you don't have yet it's because intelligence is two parts it's light and it's truth so this is why in
thir this is why in mosiah 3:19 he says the natural man is namey to God unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy
Spirit and then he becometh all of these things he obtains the word sorry I'm
kind of talking fast here but like this is what faith is is faith has to be
exercised in something that God teaches you because the chances of you formulating some view of God that's in
Distortion is like 100% like like most people including my own the vast majority of people's idea
of God is just some sort of projection of themselves on the world well God is love well yeah you want God to just be
love you want to do whatever you want or someone over on the other side is something like God is Justice and he'll
cut you off at the moment you have a bad thought well that's that's your formulation of you on the world and
until God intervenes and starts to reveal to you you can't even get it from scripture
because scripture is going to be interpreted through your own self-deception that's why you have a thousand churches
that read the same text it has to be it's a good vehicle through the I mean
it's a good vehicle of light to come through but it has to be given to you by God you hearken to his word and then you
obtain his word that's why inma 32 it says says you know you you you plant the
seed back to your word right like this is so elegant the dbr is TI the tree
it's it's very tied into the tree and they know this through Hebrew they know what they're doing they know it like you
plant the word and he says is your knowledge perfect in that thing and it says yes your knowledge is perfect in that thing then he says well is your
knowledge perfect he goes no my knowledge is not perfect so he keeps going until he has a perfect knowledge
of God which means he's standing in his presence and he and this is this is Moses's theophany and Moses one this is
ether four the brother Jared this is um Abraham and Abraham 3 the old ones
you're citing is the Fulfillment of that faith process Faith also has a connotation of
relationship right I think where it's it's it's a an Integrity with someone
else it is it is for example I've got a relationship with my wife we've been married a long time right and and
starting off I have a certain level of Faith with her or in her even right I
again I view this very much as trust and uh you know if you go back and even look
at the Latin coming through Jerome to the Vulgate it's it's it's fidere Latin
is fidere which means trust right or you get that's where you get the word Fidelity um but
it's or true right trust also comes from true in English but it's if I if I the
the joy that I can have today and this depends on how your relationship goes but the joy that I can have today with
my wife is really built on this level of what have we built among ourselves it's
not tangible there's nothing physical about what trust or or faith
is but there's something between us where I can have a Greater
Joy because of this relationship that has developed for so many years yeah
right I know her she knows me I don't have a perfect faith in her I
can't right as she cannot have a perfect faith in me you know like unlike what we can have with God
but and and the interesting thing about this Todd is you you can't fake trust it
is the realest thing there is and it's not tangible right I can pretend to have
trust in someone kind of Nod my head yeah yeah yeah yeah but what you feel
what you know about someone there's a level trust there that
you that is you just can't fake it and and it's built from work and love and
and sharing and everything else right and so there's this this idea of trust
which which is built on you know the rules of relationship and the more I can have
faith in Christ the more I can have faith in that that trust in trust him
and his sacrifice what that means for me the more I can have joy that fruit from the
tree right because I have built this level of of
trust that uh it's just this underlying anchor and
footing yeah that allows you to be more stable like like metaphysically this is
DNC 88 light cleaveth to light truth Embrace truth or CLE uh
I think he says embrace it but it's going through all these principles and he's saying they they cling to each
other so when you exercise faith in God his truth comes into you and it's your
binding point it's your connection Point as you and your spouse obtain truth in
unity it's The Binding part of Love is truth that's why like if you if you you
can love somebody and not be bound to them because you don't possess truth
together and that's a whole other dimension that requires Jesus Christ to be bound with Christ in order to have
that love but what happens in a ceiling so to speak is that a two spouses come
together and they are binding with God in truth through their faith ascensions
but at the same time they're binding together and you that like you say that trust develops because you are of the
same you are literally sealed together and so that's why hearkening to Jesus
Christ if a man wants to bind with his wife hearken to Jesus Christ because
it's the only way that you will have enough in that hierarchy enough bonding
that she will trust you to bind and hearkening to you so so the hearkening
is just the marriage like people like get all weirded out by women hearkening to men no it's it's saying do you want
to be married to him that's what it's saying yeah it's also interesting in the ceiling you know
we're not Covenant to we don't make a covenant to each other no each of us individually while we our marriage is
actually individually Covenant covenanting to God yes right and putting
that at the center it's like that that has to be if we don't have the anchor of
a covenant to Pure Truth and Love well neither of us qualify for that
you like and what's weird and this is this has another discussion to have probably but like truth and love are
like the same thing just you're just looking at the Rubik's Cube from a different way like that's why you really
can't have love without truth like it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't bind what happens a lot of people they
think love Is Just Mutual self-deception they're just in a collusion over some sort of distortion and it falls apart of
some point yeah doesn't endure yeah because it's not found on truth is what you're saying yeah yeah yeah that's
interesting I want to move political parties we could mention yeah there you go yeah no faith there at all uh
repentance how how do you how would you explain what is repentance yeah
repentance is just fully orienting yourself towards that light in that Faith process so you say at any one
moment you just say what light is being offered to me that I am not actively receiving and yielding to and if
you if you could Orient yourself fully say I will receive all the light that
God is offering me at whatever sacrifice then repentance is is is this
it's this orientation that allows the the fullness of light according to your capacity to pour into you and in truth
and that's what that's what it means to be born again um is that you're fully oriented
and so repentance is just and it's letting go of any distortions you
possess so that the truth can reorder you into alignment and that's what
repentance is hard is because we don't want to let go of distortions or
self-deceptions yeah I uh you know it's so easy and and we get this from our own
culture and a little bit of a Protestant culture um to look at repentance as
punishment yeah right and it's even discuss this way a little bit in in in the scriptures you know the consequences
the wrath of God or or whatever it might be but first of all I I believe in a natural order and and I think that there
are natural consequences to things um but secondly you know
repentance as I view it if I try to look at it the in the highest light uh is simply trying to become like
God yeah right that's all it is is it cannot and you you put it Al lineing the truth it's that's basically the same
thing you know it's are are we are we trying to become like God in other words
are we changing yeah right and improving ourselves you know not it's not a matter
of let me slap your hand on the wrist here and and look what you did and um
I've I've you know I've been involved with several um from a priesthood
position in in several you know courts and different things and and I always think about that when when I'm I have an
input right it's it's like okay what what is this process what is going on
here and and and I think a lot of times people take this as as repentance is
your punishment for breaking the law of God and and and when you look at it that
way it's like okay well yeah well you you have to do this and you have to do this and you have to do this but but you
know really it's just okay what what can we do to get you aligned again yeah and
help you improve yourself and become yeah you know because that's all repentance is it's how do I become and
and I've gone off track a little bit here and you know I think the first mission to the
Moon I think that thing was I'm pretty sure was I don't the Paulo N I can't remember what it is but it's um it was
off track 93% of the time right it has to constantly correct itself so it's
weaving on yeah I don't know you know maybe not that far but it's it it has to constantly correct itself to get to
where it's going and and to get to that objective and and I think
uh repentance is really like okay I to be true sometimes you have to express it
you have to confess it it's not punishment it's like I I have to oh yeah
I have to articulate this confession is extremely powerful because you're bringing Darkness into
light and one of the things at it yeah yeah like the adversary he's the great accuser and so what he can do is he can
accuse you before God day and night like it says in Revelation he accuse the Brethren I think he says the Brethren
anyway um and what it does is it gets ahead of him it says I will bring it to
light and you and you you you remove the ability for the accuser to do to do his
work against you like say I know I'm a sinner I openly confess my whole being
and and in that confession what I do is I open space for the light of God to come into me and to reform reorder me
through truth and restructure me and that's an endowment right like endowment happens at every single level so
confession is extremely powerful like um yeah that's pretty cool all right
baptism explain to you what what when you look at baptism whether it's symbolism or the act
itself what tell me tell me what you've studied and what what you see in baptism
yeah baptism um I'm going to I'm going to suggest something that's a little bit not in the mainstream view of it and
that is something like DNC 20 uh and in other parts in the scriptures what that
baptism is a sign to Heaven that you've obtained um a forgiven and remission of
your sins so if someone goes and they and they Orient themselves to God and
that light comes into them and they feel that rejuvenating life of Truth flowing
into them because they've given their entire heart which is what we call a broken heart and a contrite spirit it's
the sacrifice mapping it back to the endowment you know the the law of sacrifice that's the broken heart
contrary Spirit what happens is you receive a remission of your sins and you're in a Justified State when and the
the Commandment is is once you've obtained that you go forward and you make the sign of
baptism and that's what baptism is is that you're making a sign that you've obtained this Justified
State and um that might be another conversation that you and I have great because that's a little bit
counternarrative so baptism itself is the sign of something profound having
having happened to you and the reason why you make that sign in immersion is because it symbolizes what it what it takes to actually receive the
justification which is you have to lay down everything like if you think if you think receiving a remission of your sins
and becoming born again is this long slow imperceptible process over a lifetime that's akin to like waiting
into the baptismal font an ankle and then to a knee and you know
justification happens at the moment that your whole entire being is oriented and
um and that's what baptism is and then you're on the path then you're on the way and really staying on the straight
and narrow path is obtaining and retaining a Justified state or a born
again state where you're in Confluence with God as he endows you with knowledge
sufficient to come into the tree of life so something like that what why do you
think what is your understanding of the Gospels when Jesus comes to John the Baptist
he's going to get baptized and John says hey wait a minute here I you should be
baptizing me you know and he says no you need to do this and I need to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness
yeah what are your thoughts on that well if back to your condescension right like
the way why Christ is powerful is he goes into the ditch with you and then he Treads a path back to the presence of
the father this is why Lehi is after the order of Christ when he establishes a connection with the tree
and then he can bring his posterity back through it it's it's after the order so so Christ goes into the ditch he goes to
the depth he goes he goes below all things so that he can be the light and truth of all things so as he's ascending
out and and bringing you back up he is manifesting all of the works patterns
that that you go through yourself in order to ascend back into the father so
so fulfilling all righteousness is to make the sign of baptism think about the
event so this is why the sign is this is one reason why the sign is important
it's because Greg you and I let say we go get baptized like we we repent uh we had some missionaries teach
us and we have this Born Again experience of remission of our sins and
we tell our friends and family about it and we gather to a river or a font and we make the sign so that every everyone
around us can see that thing right and they can feel the power of that
connection and making that sign to heaven and those things come together and and it what it does is it
has a Rippling effect to the witnesses of that sign so we talk about Christ
like you just brought it up you just brought up Christ baptism with John that that's that's enshrined in
scripture now that will Ripple out to the world that Jesus Christ himself made the sign so it gathers people to it it
Gathers people to that that that fundamental connection that that you begin to reconnect to that tree of life
so it's so incredibly powerful people who dis baptism I like that all right holy ghost we're gonna
finish on this receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost you know we're told that uh again I'll go back
to Jesus and John the Baptist at Jordan he says and this is very
interesting to me I I think I I've looked at this for many years in in maybe a different way than most people
do but he says I bapt you know is he's saying who's going to be coming he says I
baptize with water well of course he's got the ironic priesthood right and and then he says
but he who is coming will baptize with fire and the holy and and the Holy Ghost
right in in other words he has the mestic priesthood right and so as I see that
iconic picture we have in in you know oftentimes many of the the rooms with a
with a baptismal font in the in the Chapels and or the churches and then you know with with John the Baptist he's got
his arm up and and there's Jesus and they're standing in the Jordan that to me is dbr that to me is order you have
the ironic priesthood and the mesic priesthood joining together right in this CA in this area
and and and part of that you know fulfilling all righteousness to me is is
he's condescending not only into the water which again I I feel is the doctrine of Christ but it's he he's
condescending below John the Baptist right and and and and and so
there's but bringing those two together the idea of he you know he's going to baptize with fire in the
spirit do you that that's that's the completion of baptism we often don't
speak of it in that way 100% but you're going to be immersed in the spirit so to
speak as well isn't that right yeah it's exactly what it is like the gift of the Holy Ghost is being in a state of
possession of the spirit of God such that it becomes the nature of your being it becomes the new creature it's
the new nature now someone ask well I lost that go in and out of that well yeah you go in and out of that that's
why you're on a path of learning how to this is why you get heum in 335 and you
get like mosiah 5 where he's saying if you will do X Y and Z then you will
retain this state of being anyway that's that's a conversation of itself but the
gift of the Holy Ghost is to be in in Confluence with the Lord that he's
actively giving you his word and you're obtaining more and more light and truth so this is this is
captured like in DNC 50 when he says you know if you cling to light you'll receive more light light and that light
growth and grower to the perfect day which is obtaining the fruit of the
tree so um The Gift of the Holy Ghost is that connection of word into the Lord
where he's sustaining you and and and increasing you in it until you know all things it's Salma 32 I mean it's it's
everywhere yeah it's everywhere that's awesome well Todd I really appreciate your time this is very enriching I love
these types of discussions um you're very well read you you have a very uh clear understanding of the Gospel I
think and have some wonderful insights and we're going to need to do this again on some other topics I think anytime and
thanks Greg for your testimony and all the the work that you're doing this is increasing faith in the earth well
that's that's the hope I I hope that's true so anyway Todd thanks so much and
until next time than
