Sharon McMahon OUT At UVU - US LDS Membership Drops In 2025!

Utah Valley University caves, drops Sharon McMahon LDS Growth Is Surging… So Why Is the U.S. Shrinking? A Black Eye for UVU?

 Raw Transcript:

ll right, welcome to Quick Show today.
My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. Today is April 17, 2026 and we are covering two topics. First of
all, Sharon McMahon, the invited speaker for a commencement at University at Utah Valley University has been cancelled.
She will no longer be speaking there.
This is a little bit of a surprise to me. Uh, I think it's the right thing to do, but I'm I'm surprised they actually did this. Too much backlash, I suppose,
for them to to keep her there. So, she will no longer be speaking. We'll talk about what the reasons actually might be of why she is not speaking. Secondarily,
something you may not know with all of the hoopla and fantastic numbers for for the number of conversions for the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 2025, I think it was 384,000.
25 almost a 25% markup from the previous year in 2024. And yet underneath all of
that umbrella of fantastic news, the US's net number for membership actually
dropped in 2025. So, we're going to talk about that as well. This episode is brought to you by Go and Do Travel and
the Wavemakers podcast or cruise. This is November 14th through 21st. A a fantastic time. We're going to have
Hannah Stoddard, Andrea Woodmancy, Jacob Hansen of Thoughtful Faith, Cardinal Ellis of Ward Radio, Hayden and Jackson
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be there and it's an opportunity to bring that online community together. You'll be with very likeminded people.
It's it's a great great time and a fantastic experience. November 14th through 21st. You can find out more and register at quickmedia.com cwicdia.com.
Go to the top to trips and events and scroll down to wave makers. Here we go.
Okay, so Sharon McMahon, we covered this earlier in the week talking about why in the world uh Sharon was invited for the
commencement speech on this. It is one of the most tonedeaf things I have seen in a very long time. Look, Sharon
McMahon speaking at a commencement speech just about anywhere else is probably fine. I doubt Hillsdale College
would invite her to go or Brigham Young University. I don't know. Actually,
maybe they probably would. But it's uh it it's it's the tonedeafness here was was remarkable.
Uh it's not a matter of her politics even and her self-aclaimed bipartisanship or nonpartisanship as she
calls it. It is a matter of her remarks after Charlie Kirk's assassination. And that is the problem. You don't go,
first of all, you don't go a after somebody and about what they who they are or what they speak,
you know, the same day or or a couple of days after they've been assassinated on video in front of the entire world.
And you want to qualify this. You are qualifying this because you disagree with things and you're saying that he
said hateful things. That that's that is it's obtuse. It is uh myopic. It is a
ridiculous thing to do for anyone except for the most vile type of person
uh in society. And so someone who claims to be a bridgeuer
and uh someone who who who tries to take a look at at at how do you bring things together, right? That was not the best
example of it. It was hypocritical and it's not because it was Charlie Kirk even. It's because of what happened and
it happened on the grounds of that on the campus of that university.
So to not understand this is shocking to me that that the the university would
invite her in as I mean what is the what is UVU known for above anything else in the world? It is known for the
assassination of Charlie Kirk and probably always will be known for this.
So why would you do this? this would be the most important thing in considering
who it is that you are going to bring in and just absolute tonedeaf move by the
president of UVU and and those that were involved in any committee that was involved in in bringing her in. So,
5 minuteslet's just look at this real quick. The reasoning behind this is uh I'm guessing very false. I don't know this for sure.
and he could put this up and no one's going to know for sure. But if we take a look here, this is Axios, left-leaning
publication. UVU drops Sharon McMahon as commencement speaker due to safety concerns. This is the positioning of all
of this, which I'll be honest, I think is another slap in the face of of
Charlie Kirk and his family and of those that supported him. And and to be clear,
just for transparency sake, I have never been a big Charlie Kirk fan or or someone who follows him closely. I think
he did a lot of great things. I I uh am very supportive of the fact that he he
is so young and went out and accomplished so much and was very outspoken on things that he believed in.
I didn't always agree in his approach,
but uh I I thought that I I thought that he did some pretty miraculous and courageous things, but I had barely
watched much of Charlie Kirk previous to his assassination. I went in and looked a lot more into him afterward, but I know about him and I know about TPUSA.
I've been to their office a few times.
It's right here in Phoenix. I know people that work there um and have been
affected by all of this. So I I it's it's not because I'm I'm holding
you know Charlie Kirk as some iconic figure even. It's not that and it's not the fact that
um you know she again that Sharon wouldn't be brought in as a commencement speaker to some other university but here after
her remarks no and people online with their remarks and and comments since then since she was invited have t and
since she was cancelled disinvited here is really what happened uh have said many things like oh she was
just repeating his own words no she was qualifying his death. That is what she was doing. She was qualifying it. She
was putting an asterisk on the most public assassination in history. That that's what she was doing
days. I think it was two days maybe two days after his assassination, maybe even earlier. And that's a problem. Number
one, it's highly inappropriate to do this. Highly inappropriate.
And second of all, you're inviting her to the same university where he was killed. Now, I want to talk about the reasoning behind this, right? She's
dropped speaker due to she's dropped as the speaker due to safety concerns.
Again, toe deaf to me. Absolutely tonedeaf.
Is she putting herself kind of in the same shoes as, you know, a threat of of what might happen there because of what happened to Charlie Kirk after her comments?
Th this is likely. I don't know this,
right? I'm going to make that very clear. But there is not a single reference that I have seen to any group
or individual where there has been a threat and a safety a legitimate safety
concern for Sharon. Now, I'm not saying some idiot online hasn't said something.
I mean, th those people, look, I I I do YouTube for a living. Those those idiots pop up every once in a while.
you know, down in the basement of their grandma's house. So, that's possible.
But framing this the way that they're doing this, I come on. Come on. And and and putting this in as some type of a
safety issue, just like it was a safety issue with, you know, almost referencing and bringing in the entire
September event with Charlie Kirk is, I think, also very tonedeaf. I think that this is a silly thing to put into place.
I think it's another PR snafu, right? It's another PR faux that UVU has put into place. Let's go over
this article just a little bit and see what they have said here in regards to uh this happening here. Again, a
left-leaning publication. I like going to these publications because you can read the through their what they do. Look at their transparency. I want to see both
sides on this. Um, Utah Valley University has dropped educator Sharon McMahon as its commencement speaker
after a wave of GOP le backlash triggered public safety concerns. Okay,
the backlash, yes, that is what did this. You had Burgess Owens, you had Mike Lee, you had several organizations that were very upset about this choice.
And again, how do you not see this coming? How do you not see this coming?
I I I am I it it is I I know that I I keep going back to this, but I just it's just hard
to understand. It's hard to understand the someone is not plugged into social
media into the world that that's making this choice.
It it is it is blind. It is an absolute blind choice. It goes on. It says the decision was made in coordination with McMah and public safety professionals.
the university said in a statement on Thursday.
Maybe, you know, how do how would I know? I I I I would guess that this was
very much more just UVU and Sharon McMahon and they decided one of them pushed forward and said this is not going to happen.
Um, and it's the right move as I said in the the episode earlier this week. So,
it will no longer have UV will no longer have a commencement speaker.
Um, the partisan criticisms of McMahon focused on remarks she made on social media about MAGA podcast. Of course,
they're throw this in there. MAGA podcaster Charlie Kirk shortly after he was assassinated on the UVU campus last September. Yeah. Well,
in in in since deleted posts, right, why did she delete them? Here's the question. And if she if this was no problem for those that are making
comments about what she she commented on shortly after the assassination, why did
she delete them? She should have left them up if she was okay with it. She should leave it up and support what she
said. Uh but instead deleted posts that angered Republicans. McMahon called Kirk's death horrific. So she they they
put this in place. We see how how this is framed here, but said many marginalized Americans did not see him as engaging in good faith debates. Now,
notice that they did not quote all of that. It's just good faith debates. So,
that's the reasoning. There was nothing bad that she said. She they don't bring up anything bad about his the way she qualified and put an asterisk on his death here, his assassination. Um,
they're not going to do that obviously.
So there were a chorus of voices that were out here uh of Utah's congressional
delegation, Turning Point USA. Um it was uh Mike Lee and and Burgess Owens and
college Republicans and and others that were fighting against this and did not want her to speak. I want to go here to
ABC4 News and talk about this and UVU's statement on this. Uh UVU issued
statement on commencement changes amid controversy due to posts about Carly Charlie Kirk. Utah Valley University
released a statement following a debate about their chosen 2026 commencement speaker. quote due to increased
increased safety concerns related to the speaker and in consultation with public safety professionals and Sharon McMahon
Utah Valley University has decided to proceed without a featured commencement speaker for this year's ceremony. We look forward to coming together as a
community to celebrate UVU's largest graduating class in history. Okay, stop and wait for a minute. We look forward to coming together as a community. Well,
that'll be easier now. But if that was your goal, this again, why did you make this choice? Not not real wise. With more than 13,4 that university is huge.
With more than 13,400 graduates, imagine standing in in that commencement and and attending that commencement.
You're going to be there for a while.
About onethird of whom are the first in their families to graduate from college.
Okay. Well, I again safety concerns. I I don't know that this is really the issue here. Uh
you have Republican Representative Burgess Owens called the decision morally bankrupt. I agree with that 100%. Again, if she was at a different
university, it doesn't matter. I It's not a big issue. And again, if you are a real conservative, you're like, why
would you ever invite her anyway? I look, you're never going to get a perfect person to to to be able to speak at a commencement. She's not an
imperfect person that is uh should not be the person at a different university.
If she went to Utah State, what's the big deal? Not not not a real big deal. I can see some people still protesting, but it's not tonedeaf,
right? Uh, Congresswoman Celeste Malloy posted on X saying the decision to bring McMahon was tonedeaf. Unbelievably tonedeaf.
Mike Kennedy issued his own statement also labeling UVU's decision as tonedeaf. Senator Mike Ri Mike Lee
released a statement claiming UVU is disrespecting the tens of millions of Americans who are still mourning Charlie Kirk's death. Yes, it is. Uh again, if
you go to a different university, that issue is still there, but it's not the university where he was killed where where these students were there.
It is it is preposterous to do this.
Both Turning Point USA group and UVU and the UVU College Republican issued the following statements condemning the university's choice and calling it an
insult. Okay, we've gone over this previously uh with these statements.
She framed a post as an explanation for this is Sharon why there is so much backlash to post eulogizing his death.
Um there there these aren't sound bites taken out of context. She said she did take them out of context very much so.
Millions of people feel they were harmed and the murder that was horrific and should never have happened does not magically erase what was said or done.
Again, imagine this if if would Sharon do this if this was a left-leaning pundit and and there was a backlash on uh
people that were saying something about that, you know, that leftwing pundant after he that he or she was assassinated
and talking about how they hurt many people and how they were whatever Marxist or whatever it might be that they might be saying from the right.
I don't know. I don't know if that would be the case.
I I'm just not sure. I want to get to this right here also because this comes from a spokesperson for McMahon in a release statement that was sent out just
two days ago, the day before she was cancelled.
It says, "Sharon unequivocally condemned the murder of Charlie Kirk." That is true. She did. She did. But she qualified it, right? Repeatedly and
publicly called his death a trag tragedy and stressing that public debate must never be met with violence.
haron's goal is to unpack what is happening in society and help people understand how government works. I appreciate that. But that's not what she
was doing. That spirit is reflected in her work bringing together voices from across the aisle in closed door conversations with her book club
community from Amy Coney Barrett Barrett to Kamla Harris and in interviews with Utah Governor Spencer Cox and Nikki Haley and blah blah blah blah blah.
Right. Fine. It it's but what happened here was inappropriate.
She a put an asterisk on his on his death and now she's being invited to the commencement speech at the university where Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
Desireette News real quickly. UVU says commencement will no longer feature McMahon amid backlash.
Uh state leaders called speaker choice tonedeaf and morally bankrupt. We've gone through this now. It's interesting because Emma Pitch
is the one that wrote about and completely supported Sharon,
right? That was very much a puff piece that she put out uh when there was backlash on this. I think it came out
earlier this week from the same uh writer here, Utah Valley University, she said Sharon McMahon would no longer
appear at the university's commencement ceremonies due to safety concerns. The university released a statement. We've
gone through the statement. After UVU named America's governor government teacher McMahon as its 2026 commen commencement speaker,
criticism surged across social media,
including among Utah's GOP congressional leadership who sharply criticized UVU's decision to invite McMahon. I just wonder even with a Desireette News, why
do you always pinpoint it's true, but you always pinpoint the Republicans or right-leaning or conservatives,
but if it's the other way around, you don't say it's left-leaning, it's liberals and progressives. It's it's it's very rarely brought up in those cases.
The controversy centered around comments she made about conservative activists and Turning Point USA founder of Charlie Kirk just days after thousands witnessed
his assassination on the thousands thousands in person. I suppose maybe that's what she refers to. Millions and
millions, probably hundreds of millions of people,
maybe more, witnessed this. On September 12th, 2025, 2 days after Eric after Kirk's death, in a since deleted post,
McMahon shared multiple quotes of Kirk's with little context with the caption,
"These aren't sound bites taken out of context. Millions of people feel they were harmed and the murder that was horrific should never have happened does
not magically erase what was said or done.
Again, that's a ton-deaf comment. Um, and then the statement about Sharon unequivocally condemning
20 minutesthe murder. Many, including UVU's Turning Point USA chapter, President Caleb Chilcat described her comments
last summer as tone last September as tonedeaf.
and she goes over these other points here. I I I will say on these articles that have been coming out here from
Desireette News, these have been very odd here uh in in the way they were very one-sided on this.
It's it's it's it's disappointing. I'll be honest. It's disappointing in in the way that this was covered early on.
Um, we're going to go beyond this now with with this. I'm glad that this happened. I'm glad that she was dropped.
I'm glad she glad she was disinvited on this. I think that it is a a honestly
it's a black eye for UVU to have done this. Uh, again, still reeling from what
21 minuteshad h has happened this academic year in September. to do this is um these are people that are not plugged
in. They they don't have their ear to the ground. They don't understand. They are up in these levels up here 30,000 ft
looking down seeing things very generically.
And yes, they're tonedeaf, completely tonedeaf to these types of things.
And I was a little upset when I gave did the original episode on this for this very reason. It's just shocking to me that this level of eliteness, I'm sorry,
it is eliteness that that is blind to to something like this.
Doesn't make any sense to me. Doesn't make any sense. All right. I want to go to the membership in the church and what's happening there in the United States. I think most people would be
very surprised. I mean, we had the numbers that even in the United States,
our conversion rate was high. We had done really well, better than we've done in the past, which is all true. is fantastic and love this, right? It's
it's fantastic. Now, I want to put this into context.
This is not just a Latter-day Saint phenomenon, right? It is a Christianity phenomenon.
There has been a strong turn especially over the year of 2025 and late in 2024
where there has been an uptick in activity in baptism in membership for Christianity as a whole and Latter-day Saints are enjoying that same upturn.
Right? There are record numbers for Catholics. There are record numbers, not ever perhaps, but you know, the first in
a very long time for Catholics, for the Orthodox. Uh it is all ticking upward right now,
which is a fantastic thing that there that the US is getting more religious over the last year, year and a half,
maybe two years now. And and so that's a fantastic thing. And of course, it's fantastic that the that the conversion
rate is so high, baptisms are so high for the Latter-day Saints worldwide and in the United States. But the numbers in
the United States, the net numbers dropped.
And there are a couple things probably to look at as to why that is the case.
But with a a large number of conversions in the US overall, that that number decreased. So
again, let's go in here and take a look at some of this. This is from the Salt Lake Tribune. Uh latest from Mormon Land. LDS membership drops for the first
time in the United States. Right? So this for them, they're saying that this is the first time ever that our net
membership has ever dropped. Okay, that is a red flag that is being swallowed up
with the the excitement over all of the baptisms that we've had.
It is the first time that it has ever dropped. Now, I think there are some things to look at with this, but let's go over some of the
first of all, let me back up here. It says the global south is up. Really,
what we're talking about here, it's not necessarily the global south. It is three areas. And I think that this is an important thing to understand about what's happening with the church,
right? Where are the places of greatest growth? It is Africa, Latin America, and the Philippines.
All top 10 countries are in one of those three areas. Okay. So, let's look at what we have in those areas. We have areas that are not very progressive.
They are a lot less secular. Those two go along with each other.
They are more familyoriented in terms of areas of you know they're they're povertystricken
lands and so they live with more reality of gender roles. They live with more the
reality of economics of labor. Um anytime there is more money somewhere
you're going to find less religion less commitment.
So, these are areas that are more conservative. They are more uh familyoriented. I'm not going to say that that the families are perfect as
far as like the proclamation on the family and and tradition. There's certainly a lot of womanizing going on in these areas. There's a lot of, you know, in Mexico they call it machismo.
These things all happen there. So, it's not a perfect thing, but they're having kids.
They are having kids.
uh unlike the United States and that makes a a big difference,
right? There is okay, are we going to sacrifice for these kids? Do we have to bring them up? We that it just changes everything. It changes everything. And
and and people in those situations are more susceptible to the gospel, I would say. And and and if they have if they're
not as wealthy, they're going to be more susceptible to hearing the gospel and and converting.
So that is the future of the church,
at least as it looks now, the future of the church. And we can start seeing it in in all of this leadership that we've seen in in the area presidencies that have been formed. And it's fantastic.
It's wonderful. Right. So, so in you see in Latin America a lot more Latinos that are in those area presidencies, a lot more Africans that are in those African presidencies.
those those places are beginning to mature in in the church and have even generational some degree certainly in Latin America
uh generational members of the church Philippines too Africa is a little less that way and so this is the future of
the church and let's see what happens going forward but if the US numbers continue to
decline and I would say even I haven't looked at Europe as far as a net number because those numbers have gone up also in baptisms,
which is exciting. It's fantastic. But I don't know what the net number is there.
Um, you know, have those dropped? Have those stayed about the same regardless of the conversions, the baptisms that have happened in in Europe? But the
future is in Latin America, Africa, and in the Philippines.
Those are where the leaders are going to come from. Those are those are where the baptisms are coming from. That's where the new wards, the new stakes, the new
missions are all being formed. It is uh interesting to see that. And you have to
ask yourself again, are we seeing the sunset of the day of the Gentiles? That's a little hard to swallow.
If that's the case, it's pretty hard to swallow.
And yes, there's still the charge that the Ephraimite Gentiles are the ones that are to carry the gospel to the
world, which is what we have been doing since 1820s.
But you know, the future of the church is in the Philippines, in Africa, and in Latin America.
So we should see that. We should understand that that that right now that's the trajectory of where things
are going. And you know what? That is probably a very good thing.
If if the West continues to decay and and and
essentially is is is in a suicide mode right now, then we need help.
and and that is where it will likely come from from unlikely areas that you would think but that is likely where that help is going to come from. Okay,
so just an interesting thing. Now let's break these numbers down a little bit.
This is coming from uh ldsgrowth.blogstoot.com.
This has been in place for about 20 years I think maybe earlier maybe more than that but there is uh
some interesting numbers here to look at we've got here the top uh what do they
have here top 44 places this is where there has been an increase 44 different countries experienced an increase in the
numbers of baptisms and from baptisms so an increase in the membership in these
44 countries top at the very top. And it's hard to understand this as far as percentages go, but the Solomon Islands
is number one. Why? Because it has a 98.7%
increase. Well, there's a total of 3,232 members there now. So, they had the year before around 1,600 members.
And so, that's, you know, they've added about 1,600 members, which is huge.
huge. I mean, I wonder how that happened. That'd be really interesting to know. If if somebody has served a mission there recently or has any
information on that, please put it in the comments section because that's fascinating.
3232 is the total number there. In Montenegro,
they have now a total of 65. So, they ended up with another 30 or more uh members in Montenegro, right? So, this
is how you see the percentages. And this is based off of percentages first, not the number in the growth, right? That not the number in the growth.
Percentages. Georgia of all places, the country Georgia 59%, there's now uh 500
there. So there there's been an increase there of roughly what couple hundred in that in there. Rwanda has gone up 45%.
Israel up to 422. So a couple maybe a hundred 50 to 100 that have been added as members there. That could be
everything from embassy numbers to organizations to business etc. Right?
From people that are traveling more than likely that's where that would come from. And then you start getting into numbers here that make a little bit more sense in terms of of percentages.
And you'll see where a lot of these are,
right? You've got Malawi. You've got Central African Republic uh small small place. Tanzania
uh has now got 6,200 members. Mosamb beek has now got 39,000 members in that
country. St. Martan uh small small island. Uh new I don't know where that is. Malta of all places.
Okay. Small. Now here's Sierra Leon.
32 minutesOkay. Africa again up 21% 41 almost 42,000 members in Sierra Leon Leo Leooto
Angola at 8779 members down further here the DR Congo 159,000 almost 160,000
members now in the DR Dr. Congo. Um the de Democrat Democratic Republic of
Congo. I went back and looked at this in 2009.
So this is these are 2025 numbers. So 16 years ago there were about 23 24,000 members.
So in 16 years this has grown six times plus. It looks like six times plus in in the DR Congo.
That's pretty impressive. They've got 160,000 members as of December 31st. So that's probably well beyond that now
already. Madagascar, right? Coming down to Kenya again is in here. Uh Namibia,
other numbers are Zimbabwe is up to 52,000 members. The Republic of Condo, which is different, is at 15,000.
Botswana.
So you've got all of these numbers that are in, you know, Liberia 25,000, Zambia 7,800,
uh, Cameroon 3,600. You know, a lot of these are in Africa that you have here in these top in these 44 countries where
it has increased. Now the following here are 12 ter countries and territories where there was a decline in church membership for 2025.
Bahrain. Okay, hardly any members there. Barbados, is of man, Gernzi, Armenia, the Cook Islands, Trinidad and Tobago,
Netherlands, Albania, Indonesia, Jersey,
and the United States. So there were 12 countries that had a decline. The United
States was one of those. Now the number there is very small. I don't remember the exact number, but it's about 180 180 people. So, it's it's barely there.
That's why they've got a 0.00%.
Um, but there was a decline. Now, one thing to consider here with the United States is immigration.
And with the reverse of immigration, you had a large number of of immigrants that were coming through, a very large number
of immigrants that were coming through in the previous years. Some of those would be members of the church. Some were converted uh while they were here
in the United States. And now you've got a number that have gone back to Mexico and other parts of Latin America. So you
have a number of Latter-day Saints that are members of the church in the US that are Latinos that have either been deported or selfported.
Uh, and that probably has an effect on that because again, you were you could let's just say that number was 5,000.
5,000 members left and are now down in in Mexico and Central and South America. That would make a very big difference.
Or maybe it's 10,000. Maybe maybe it's 20,000. I don't know.
But I'm sure that number is somewhat significant. So that probably has a a bearing on on the numbers overall in the
United States that I would guess. But still still in the US that that is an issue. Good
numbers for the United States last year for for conversions for baptisms. Uh not great numbers for retention. And that's
the other side of things. It's a matter of retention.
and and are we why are we not holding on to more members? Why are there still so many women that are leaving the church?
Um that is a big deal and and I'm sure something that the brethren are very focused on.
I think we need a lot stronger male members in the church to be honest. I think that that would make a very big difference.
So I wish there was a little more focus on on that side of things.
Probably a surprise to most of you that that the numbers went down in the US.
Immigration an issue, retention an issue, and honestly culture is an issue.
As culture moves further and further away, it seems to me that if we separate ourselves from that culture and make
sure that we are the light upon the hill, the city of light upon the hill,
and we are not down in the valley with the culture,
then those that are down in the valley and can see the light up on the hill can make a clear distinction. and we'll have
several of those people leave the valley and come to the city of light. I I think that that would make a lot of sense.
Have a great weekend and we'll talk to you Monday.