At age 18, Sylvia Pollack began smuggling people from East Germany to West Germany. Things were going well, then she was setup by the East German security force, the Stasi. After 3 months in an East German jail without her family knowing what had happened to her, she had a mock trial and was sentenced to 5 years in an East German prison. Silvia grew up in both West Germany and East Germany with family on both sides of the wall. She was a member of the Young Pioneers, a mandatory, communist youth group not unlike the Hitler Youth of the Nazis. She lived in the different worlds of democracy and socialism and gives examples of life behind the iron curtain.
I have a file because I got caught
smuggling people out of East Germany
[Music]
again there's not a lot of editing I do
but maybe a little bit that'll end up
doing but we don't do a whole lot of it
unless you tell me I'm that way I want
you to take that out I really wanted to
express myself on this but maybe I went
too far no you say whatever you want
you're good to go this is this is uh I
kind of want what you're you know I want
your real feelings on this you bring a
certain perspective to this that most of
us here don't have you know the thing
about it is having been on both sides of
Defense and living in the US for just
about just H me it's different story you
get to see things okay so tell me you
were in were you in West Berlin or in
just in West Germany somewhere or where
did you grow up I grew up in West
Germany okay almost Porsche and Mercedes
oh nice you have any connections there
my father used to be a master mechanic
okay so his best buddy is actually the
master mechanic in one of the
productions okay so they do get them in
expense nice so they don't pay retail so
you grew up in Stuttgart and then your
were you born there I was born in
Chicago it was raised between East
Germany and West Germany because my
mother's parents were in East Germany
okay her great-grandparents fled from
Russia because of genocide in Russia
this is during the gulags mm-hmm towards
to choose mm-hmm so it wasn't just Adolf
yes things like that took place even
prior to mm-hmm
so they got stuck because of a woman and
former now eastern Germany former East
Germany and they started to build up a
life over there after they got stuck
needless to say World War two comes
around and defense goes up hmm so now we
have an East and West Germany
and my mother was in Berlin at a sports
event met my father in West Berlin in
Berlin at that time you're still purlins
okay it changed after 62 when they
definitely closed defenses and had no
more exchanges my mother took off with
my father and went down south towards
helps okay and by the time she realized
what's going on not only was she
pregnant but so what year would
that have been
59 okay so there'd already been a
split yeah but there was still a little
more fluidity going between the two
sides with the four powers to accept
their part in it Russia wounded more and
Americans said well then we take this
part the French that we take that part
brush and the British took another part
and they will find what it as far as the
defense goes but Russia wounded and
launched a piece of the pie and the rest
of them said you know what uh no can do
well then Russia decided we're gonna get
released at that time an upcoming
president for eastern Germany and
developed info are the nationalistic
folks army hmm Fuchs army not Somali
folks on me and used it against its own
people and that's when they started to
have at first barbed wire fences the
wall came up used it against their own
people in the terms that they their
backs are their backs or to wit West
Berlin and their guns are facing toward
East Berlin yeah pretty much pretty much
East Germany was the largest living
prison that we had because nobody turns
its
guns against its own people and kill
some to keep them in mm-hmm but that's
exactly what they did so you had you had
family members then in East in East
Berlin no East Germany and he's German
yes okay miss Germany okay Berlin even
East Berlin was an island by itself East
Berlin was candy land for East Germans
mm-hmm because they had everything and
then it went into the rest of East
Germany but everything went to East
Berlin first because it was government
seat they tried to keep a distance from
from the so called socialistic Democrats
yes that's funny you bring that up
actually that name because I've done a
little research on this and it's funny
like even today we'll get into this in a
minute but it's just it's just funny
that you hear that term today even here
in the US democratic socialism or
socialist Democrats and that's the same
term that was used in East Germany and
Russia right and the Soviet Union but I
was just looking at that I saw several
titles and banners and things of the
people that were and they used to say
socialist Democrats but the Young
Pioneers yes we're gonna get we're
gonna get into that in a second so
because I looked into that too that's
pretty interesting it's kind of like the
the socialist version of the Nazi
youth basically yeah but the sad thing
is it's a programming forced onto to use
mmm-hmm by the government and it's
it's using to use against its own
parents mm-hmm well I think that's key
you have to do that right now you have
they did the same thing with Pol Pot you
know they did the exact same thing you
did the same thing with Mao and they
turn them against their parents because
they need to get rid of the old guard
what it is and have purity growing up in
the next generation yeah the sense of
socialism so you grew up in in
Stuttgart and I know my accents off
there what did you know about
the East as a little girl
right what were you taught in school
about the easy we did note and it
was east and west and we belong together
but we were kept separate that pretty
much was about it as far as the media
goes it was suppressed the only thing
you ever heard was when something
trickled through underground now why you
would think that and the East you would
have that why would you have that in the
West West Germans didn't want to stir up
the pot okay it was still a time of
Russians being right behind that wall
mm-hmm you know there was a threat yeah
you know you don't play with the enemy I
mean you keep him at bay you keep an eye
on him but you don't play with him so
information was very limited as far as
sectors the only thing we ever heard was
when somebody escaped successfully or
when somebody got killed on the border
mm-hmm needless to say from the East
German side not to its German sites but
it's a young girl very little
information the only the only thing that
I knew I mean when it really became
obvious to me dead that we had a problem
mm-hmm
within the country I must have been
about seven years old we took the train
over to East Germany and you when
on agerage spend about two hours on the
border where they checked everything all
the suitcases were opened
you got East German marks Ford which
wasn't worth a lick I mean you can buy
much and nothing is you couldn't take
anything out mm-hmm we always took
something in we never came back with
something I would I mean there wasn't
anything
really avail you until needle so when
you were young you were typically going
over there to visit family yeah okay
four weeks into summertime in two weeks
in the window time okay so each year
yeah so there was at least that kind of
fluidity where you could you know
families obviously had been separated
and you were able to visit each
other
well my grandparents weren't allowed
because they weren't retired so they
were not allowed to come and visit until
the age of 65 okay because then they
become a burden to the state so it's
okay to give you yes so you can go to
the rest yeah okay interesting so they
couldn't come visit you know okay what
what were your impressions do you
remember when you were first a little
girl going into East Germany I mean was
it pretty much the same at that point at
it was Germans have a children
sorry I'm too scared kids Slavic
Conshelf the father he touch off we
don't get in Pomona and pummel and this
up to punt it's a war room it's rather
dark rhyme because it's a child little
child sleep your father is in the war
your mother is going to another country
but the country got burned down okay
that's pretty much the feeling that you
have when you go across the portal
because everything is great and cray and
cray I mean it was it was depressing
mm-hmm
not only leaving home which was the
first city in West Germany or the last
before he come to the portal the woods
opened up so you got into a little bit
more open space the Train really slowed
down people in on the train really
became more hush hush hush hmm
you didn't hear much everybody always it
was more of a whisper then dinner talk
anymore and it's like what the heck is
going
I mean you really got that feeling
like you're going into something
really bad so you see you actually
walking around the towns or the cities
there was people weren't talking there
was that much of a difference you
couldn't you couldn't talk and you
couldn't even trust your own parents to
some extent which I find out much later
because I have a star C file what's that
Stasi file the state security of East
Germany I have a file because I got
caught smoking people out of East
Germany do it okay we'll get to that in
a minute but yeah it was it was there I
mean my grandmother used to hang out at
the window and waited for the mail and
she always told us you don't say
anything personal to the mail person hmm
that's like putting it into the pasta
and it's like when you had to puff now
that's the town's cry oh that's like
okay and sure enough we I don't know I
mean as teenagers we did some dumb stuff
typical teenager stuff but it got to the
next largest city which was responsible
for that area which was Hornstein
unstyled and the photo showed up the
police and asked us about it what was
this about what did you mean about that
and that is scary that is excuse me how
do you know you know and I mean we're
talking about being 15 years old and
it's like sure I'll take you on you know
and they're threatening you with
being taken to a work camp and it's like
what and my grandmother you don't
talk about things you don't talk about
things so you don't talk about things
you have to learn to shut up just tell
them it's beautiful it's beautiful it's
beautiful it's like how can it be
beautiful so this is something you know
going from being a little girl and going
into a teenager when you know
because you're going every year you're
visiting but you're starting to learn oh
I mean I don't know you could observe
early on as a girl a little girl
it's not it my cousins friends
girlfriends two of them actually died on
the border because they tried to escape
from East Germany East Germany day one
of them got shot by it by the guards and
the other one got caught up in in the
PowerPoint or and they let him bleed to
death
it wasn't easy but when we had a chance
we talked among us as teenagers and when
you have fear of who to talk to and
about what you have a problem mm-hmm and
the problem didn't fit well with me
I wasn't used to being controlled as far
as my speech goes as far as my gates to
go on this side off the road on that
side of the road
don't peek over the fence because hey
the KGB might be listening in and
and taking pictures it's like come on
now who sits in a government control pig
farming and take pictures of others well
the KGB does it's like excuse me it was
crazy
it was just crazy so you had you know
again it you're going into your teenage
years you're starting to get a much
better idea of what this actually means
and what the difference is between
living in West Germany and living in
East Germany differences like denied
they changed Chemnitz to call mark city
okay the East German stood to glorify
call marks to clarify call marks he's
one of the father of March now he's one
of the founders of socialism as it's
written in a German this and on top over
down Marx and Engels are the ones
dead dead were the basis or being used
as two paces something off I saw a
number of pictures in front of buildings
and on roads of you know they'd have a
big head of Karl Marx in places and do
you remember going through and
constantly this would have been after
Stalin right when you're a teenager so
you didn't see stalling up everywhere
Brezhnev you did have Stalin and you had
Lenin Lenin was a profile picture on
your pins in the Young Pioneers which
was an honor bench that you got and it
was just a small pin size of him because
shortened Lenin also was the grandfather
of former East Germany okay Lenin was
according to East German government the
glorified and justified personification
of a socialistic god mm-hmm I mean
that's how he was presented and it's
like well I mean he tried to kill off
people he cleared out whole villages you
know it's interesting I because I've
read a little bit on this ever a lot of
stalling and a lot of people believed
that Lenin and still do today the Lenin
wasn't that bad you know his
policies may have been bad but he wasn't
like Stalin in the sense that he got rid
of people even in his own government etc
but he did he did that's thing about it
but Lenin then had control over the
medium petals and Stalin did and Stalin
had the problem he took on the West
openly mmm Lenin did it from the
back door in Lenin Lenin did what the
Democratic Party is doing today the US
Democratic Party okay why do you say
that what do you mean because all the
similarities aren't there I mean you
look at it even today when you turn on
TV today all this Trump disturb dent and
we don't care and his mafia boys
and he's using mafia like methods to
get information and using arrogance yet
it's only against Trump but when you
really look at it in the overall picture
the Democratic Party has been doing it
for quite some time now so control
mm-hmm like I said I've been there I've
seen it I grew up with it I don't want
it mmm
and I told my husband and I love him
dearly but if it should come down to it
and we are implementing those kind of
rules in this country here oh I'll be
the first one to pack my bags and move
to New Zealand to count sheep I'm not
I'm not willing to give up on my
freedom that I after 30 years in this
country achieved an inmate mine just
just wander away and to give it away for
somebody that wants to rule take and not
share this country used to be about
sharing being together as a nation not
as a single party where you have a
handful of people controlling everything
the money goes into this handful of
people and everybody else is being held
at babe with crumbs because you're
not allowed to go further than the
crumbs they get the silver platter oh
you can assist a tiny little teaspoon
with hole in it if you're lucky enough
you get a half of teaspoon of soup our
Utah are you talking about the
politicians yeah okay so I've seen it
I've been there I stood in line not
knowing what was at the end of the
line in East Germany just to find out it
was mascara the cheapest oldest mascara
for seven marks at that time who is for
sale but everybody stood in line because
hey there's a chance you get some old
mascara so this our time these are times
where you visited your family and you
were there I think you said for four
weeks of time so when you're there in
four weeks so then are you you're
registered there in a sense they know
you're there they know you're there and
so during those four weeks while you're
visiting your family you go into these
of the Young Pioneers I had to because
so do you had the uniform
I had my you have the whole thing and so
tell me a little bit about the Young
Pioneers what did they have you do is
that is that does that include school I
did do to school just about a week every
summer because our summer vacation fell
different than my cousin's so yeah we
just fell into the same pod it wasn't
mandatory however to keep to keep the
peace because my grandfather didn't
agree with it okay he got expelled from
the party and his rebellion turned into
growing a little Adolf stache okay and
they asked him several times to shave
that off but it was his form of being
rebellious against the system so he
never shaved it until he died what does
that mean if you're kicked out of the
party I mean how many people there in
East Germany are not in the party I
don't know I don't know but I'm pretty
sure what the number boys read off
minimal you probably could count them on
one or two fingers the way it affected
us when we were there when citrus fruit
came in from Cuba the oranges were
rather like straw they weren't oranges
really they're more for choosing
rather than eating but when citrus did
come in and it finally made it into the
village nine out of ten times we weren't
entitled to anything because they were
out just like that so they had their way
so they were they were they were a
little less equal than the other people
right yeah exactly
so my grandparents really did live in
the village they lived outside it's a
good 15 minutes down the hill but
they're there away from everything they
have their own little area and I imagine
because of my great grandmother she was
a very feisty Jewish woman there was a
reason why they left out there because
they didn't quite fit in everything was
limited you
couldn't get just everything when you
needed it so improvising whoa it was
high on the list growing your own
year-round greenhouse that my uncle
actually built to the back the thick of
plastic we brought in in the suitcase so
they have the plastic tube to build a
greenhouse there was no running water we
had a pump outside we didn't have a
toilet in the sense of a toilet it was
when that got bummed out once a year and
it ended out on the fields yes many more
go back to the planer youth oh no
any how did that go we did Scout work in
a lot of ways but we always had to say
thanks to you Soviet soldier which was
kind of strange because there wasn't one
around
mm-hmm they weren't even allowed to come
out of there restricted area under the
Russians we had them down into wits but
they always worked behind a fence but
everything was geared towards a
militaristic uniformed lifestyle you
speak alike you act alike and you keep
an eye on your neighbor
it doesn't matter of it your brother
your mother your father whoever to make
sure they're following the Orthodox day
you make sure they're following the rule
if they don't you tell us we make sure
that's interesting because that's
I mean obviously that's a part of
what socialism is right of communism and
it's an attempt that I the way I
see it it's a it's an attempt to
take a natural hierarchy which is here's
what I could accomplish or here's what I
might not accomplish going down based on
my choices on my agency and trying to
flatten it by force is that's the only
way you can do it because it's a natural
thing and so you force it into a linear
place and the only way you do that is
through tyranny at the top and tyranny
at the bottom and it trickles down it
really trickles down to a point
were brother against brother sister
against sister and still smiling in your
face and living under the same roof it's
scary the thought alone is Gary and in I
have a hard time to adjust to uniformity
because I'm an individual and I think we
each have our own rights our own ways
our ways to express to accept an end
to be and it shouldn't be somebody else
trying to force you into a mold and tell
you when to do what why to do what and
how much you're entitled to if I work
hard I should be entitled to what I earn
I shouldn't have to give it to somebody
that just sits there and tells me you
didn't earn that you give that to me and
you didn't earn that goes back to
Obama he tried the same thing he started
out there's no community organizer but
most of the Young Pioneers go into
communities as little organizers in in
certain areas kindergarten how wonderful
I don't even know how to hold my spoon
but you tell me how to do it right I
don't I don't know how to spell my own
name but you tell me how to say thanks
to you so it's so true
it's hard it's so so frustrating when
you see where it all led and people were
contingently because they were afraid so
afraid of being shot by a handful and
the funny thing is after the Wall fell I
I met a soldier that was on the border
and he said if we want a shunt they
would have shot us and it's like what do
you mean he says if we wouldn't have
taken a shot and whoever tried to get
out somebody never saw that somebody
else would have taken a shot at us from
within not from
you know and it's like you got to be
kidding me so so they were they were
suppressed to a point date they were in
bondage they didn't have a choice
absolute bondage absolute submission to
the rule so time goes by and I know that
you have had had some experience between
going back and forth later on now is
this still you're visiting your family
at these times is that where this kind
of thing starts yeah you're visiting
your family my cousin she's the same age
as me she tried to apply for visa to
leave East Germany unhappy one of the
friends made an attempt and got killed
at the border I mean I was 18 I mean I
was still full piss and vinegar I met a
friend who has family also in former
East Germany and we got together
Terri's or that used to be a group of
people that prepare cars trunks with
liners and stuff and we went to Berlin
West Berlin and you gotta drive to East
Germany in order to get the West Berlin
okay West Berlin was the island in the
Red Sea the Red Sea was the Communists
around and we got caught turns out the
one that we were supposed to pick up and
one of the rest stops
he was Stasi so we got arrested okay
what do you mean he was Stasi what is
that State Security so that's that you
talked about you have a Stasi file okay
so that's why a file comes in okay yeah
and so you're over there and you're
trying to get smuggled well we did
smuggle by that point we had two of them
out already
was this now where did this plan come
from we heard about it and the thing
is there are at that time there were a
lot of people which had relatives of
some sort cousins extended angles
grandmothers grandfathers whatever they
got in in East Germany or that actually
were allowed to leave on a visa usually
it's the elderly that were allowed to
leave on visas so yeah you hear things
you know and my mother had a very
typical East German accent I mean she
couldn't deny it if she wanted to and it
she stood out like a sore thumb so you
get information and it rolls I mean I
don't even know where we picked it
up about the group in Berlin that
prepares the cars but we found out about
them so you found some connections and
you decided that you were gonna be a
part of this you know we're gonna do
this so you obviously is this just
youthful adventure or is this already
a built in you know into your core like
I have got to help these people I did I
think it was building because I got
kicked out of the Young Christian
Democratic Union at 16 mm-hmm because I
questioned the politicians a little too
much so which is one of the Democratic
parties in Germany
West Germany so yeah it was building the
rebellion was building already too we
have to do something we have to force a
change we were surrounded by US troops
and I hate to tell you even the
freedom they had look better than what
we had in West Germany so and now you go
to East Germany and everything is is
suppressed it's down and don't move
don't say you have to do something about
it and that was my opportunity to do
something so you're 18 and you go do
this you're out of school we've done
yeah
graduated I actually signed up with
college at that time by the university
okay sure so tell me exactly what
happens here is you go any trace this
the first attempt that you try this and
there you have it he was the third one
that we were supposed to pick up okay so
what about the other two did those go
successfully one of them we chopped off
in West Berlin because we came from West
Germany to Berlin and on the way over we
picked him up what you do now my
understanding is obviously just so
people may not know this
West Berlin is an island right right so
it's completely surrounded by East
Germany yeah so even traveling down that
corridor to get to West Berlin aren't
you had checkpoints with these Germans
yes you are yeah but you go to a rest
stop that is designated for West Germans
or transit people and it's specifically
designated for transit not for East
Germans or anybody else mm-hmm and you
back up into the parking lot because to
the back is a row of bushes so whoever
comes in can easily come in from the
bushes you leave the trunk unlock take
it in you go in you have your coffee you
have a window of about 20 minutes and
you get into your car you try Falls as
if nothing happens you're coming from
you're coming in this consents yours at
a rest stop and in in West Germany no oh
this is any we came from West Germany
we were on our way to whisper
when the third one happened yeah okay
and so what happened oh what happened
the easiest thing to describe it was
crazy it was just guns and police
everywhere I mean it was it was I don't
know we kind of felt like we killed
somebody I mean okay so you're in enemy
territory exactly and with all these
guns yeah and
so what's going through your mind how
did you get caught
he was Stassi so you've got you've got
somebody in the trunk at this time yeah
who is this I don't even know okay so
this is all kind of setup and you're
just it was previously set up okay dude
a group in Berlin I wanted to get my
cousin owed that was my main thing and
and we try it
but until then you get hate there is
somebody so we did take two people out
and everything was fine I mean
nothing went wrong and then the third
one everything went upside down
so were you at a checkpoint no we were
actually at the transit rest stop okay
which is the specifically designated
rest area for people transiting from
West Berlin to West Germany or West
Germany to West Berlin mm-hmm but you're
in East Germany it's in Germany so and I
mean it was just I don't even know what
these policemen came from gate all of a
sudden they were all around us and
it's like freezing up and in it was just
nuts it was nuts well it sounds pretty
scary it is because they still know
where the machine guns drawn and I don't
know if they were secured if they were
loaded I mean you have no clue you
could treat it like you're the
biggest enemy in the world I mean it's
like wait a minute I haven't even done
anything yet you know I haven't even
made a move yet mm-hmm and you don't
even breathe I mean it's so so hard
to breathe because you're afraid that if
you take a deep breath they're gonna
shoot you because they gonna get
the wrong idea what you're planning on
doing and then it's it was mad before
you know it we were in these hugs he
went off went with a group of men and
and out was separated and I got into one
of the vents and events have little
booze in it with
do we know mm-hmm so you just get locked
in and very small so if you're heavier
like me now I wouldn't be able to be in
there today so today I mean how many
people were you with I had one person
with me you had one person with you and
then whoever you were picking up in the
trunk we're all three of you back in the
back of this van then no Haydn’s he got
into to one when I was taking off to the
other and I don't know what happened to
the person in in the car at the court
date in the trunk yeah at the court date
he showed up as a witness for the state
when it turned out he was Stasi I assume
he didn't go any worse from there on he
went home dude to fool the next ones
yeah okay so they had they had set you
guys up oh yeah I was a definite setup
mm-hmm so what happened how long was the
court date after you were caught being
in childhood the first thing was almost
three months of it was investigation
almost daily so you were in jail in East
Germany for three months separated from
from others at first i oh there's no I
had no other person about me were you in
as were you in a cell by yourself all by
myself Wow you're 18 years old
yeah the interviews the investigations
were a rental strange it was to kind of
like Lauren or a good guy bad guy him
they tried that try to convince me that
oh yeah win the wall falls we're
gonna be all together and it's gonna be
like nothing happened so what happened
and it's like excuse me what happened
nothing happened you know it's like yeah
your family in blah blah blah it was
crazy it was just absolute man and then
a week before the court date I finally
get to be with others in a Cell and
it was eight
women girls two of them were there
because they applied for reasons to
leave East Germany Sony weren't there
for the control of it one of the moist
air she tried to escape to hungry and
got caught and that's a route that a lot
of people took later on yeah my cousin
did - yeah hungry and then tomorrow -
lady Austria in Austria and my cousin
did in and it was a successful one
mm-hmm my brother took him out in the
trunk - to Austria I think there used to
be an electric fence there that had gone
down or some Austrians were rather very
relaxed but um so at the core what
happened to the court my grandmother and
uncle showed up and they were asked if
they know me my grandmother said that's
my granddaughter my uncle says that's my
niece do you know why she's here my
grandmother said I don't even know why
I'm here
what is going on my uncle just not at
the hit and next thing I know I was told
I'm getting five years it's like what so
five years and I not got walked out I
mean it wasn't even ten minutes
errand boys are home so they had that
they had the guy in the trunk came out
as a witness against you pretty much it
he just stood there they asked him if
I'm the one he said yes he told us that
oh he told the courts which was just
one church and in a secretary that he
got in the trunk he got all the
information through us which is not true
but I wasn't allowed to say anything no
I mean everything was preset already and
like I said my grandmother was asked if
she knows me and she says yes that's my
friend daughter but I don't know what's
going on
my uncle was asked if he knows who I am
and I pretty much was it and they got
walked out and so it's just a formality
they're just going through a formality -
right put some checklist my lawyer
wasn't even now
wasn't even my lawyer wasn't even
there and they told you you're gonna
have five years five years but that
didn't happen did it no I did a year in
one day so you did another year in jail
a year only one day oh my gosh yeah
which was um no fun yeah because you
have the yellow misery in boats and it's
close to the Czech Polish border area
it's in that corner was built by Hitler
actually and at that time I've always
called a yellow misery because the
facade outside was kind of yellowish
with a grey hint like most of it in East
Germany the walls were thick the
cells were very small you had two
bunk beds a small table you weren't
allowed to sit you understand
the only time you were allowed to sit
was for your food and Wichmann breakfast
and dinner so two meals a day yeah and
you bunked with another woman
eventually yeah eventually she also got
caught smoking people so she was from
West Germany
she was West Germany would a American
husband how many how many people were
there a lot of West Germans in that
prison it was solely West Germans it was
only West Germans in that in that prison
yeah we had no contact other than the
prison guards there were no other East
Germans no it was all West Germans
except for when she was East German born
her family left early on went to Austria
she had dual citizenship Austrian German
citizenship and I'm not quite sure what
her background really was but it was
somewhat politically motivated
she had a ten-year stay wouldn't the
East German government so what are your
parents thinking at this time I mean
they what had you tell them about
leaving to go to East Berlin were you
just talking about your family or no I
actually was a weekend
and I'd talk my model she's gonna
babysit my son who was six months old at
that time oh you had a son at the time
yeah six months well dude that was
tragic he's German government after
three months informed the West German
government and the police finally window
went to my mother and told him that he
got me but it took him three months of
course she has no idea at all where you
are or what's happening well I didn't I
didn't think we would get caught I'm
sure Weiss twice prior to it everything
went fine I never would have thought of
the consequences like that
were there any attempts from West
Germany to try and get you guys out it's
that that's what is terminated the
legalization of smuggling they give
you a longer sentence and for every day
that you were released early on they get
a certain amount of money so from West
Germany from West Germany so so my
sentence with five years I did one year
one day because I got caught in a leap
year they got four years paid for film
from West Germany so it's like what
that's legalized mm-hmm so they know
you're only gonna be there for a certain
amount of time oh they do they do but
they're it's extortion it is it is I
mean foger which was a lawyer in East
Germany which worked for the East German
government took large fees to help East
Germans to apply for the reasons to get
out then half of the people ended up in
prison even work comes and you do
work in East German prisons you do not
have a choice you do not work you only
get one meal a day you're in the cell by
yourself you don't see anybody else in
order to keep your sanity you
volunteer to work and you do have 12
hour work days so it's not that you sit
around and not do anything
you you're doing your parts and you
have neighbors you can actually talk to
somebody while you do your York
eventually it becomes routine so you get
the dog and blah blah blah
and turn you head then when you get
caught oh they're gonna cut your rations
so you had me get caught talking yeah
okay so it's probably worth it though oh
it was every time yeah you thought you
were gonna be in there for five years
so was it sudden that they came to you
and let you go two or three years they
show up you get separated from everybody
and you get into a cell by yourself a
floor above right under the roof and all
you have is a Cal factor which comes by
and friendship civilian clothes what you
getting is a old Russian military
uniform or East German military uniform
which been taken out of commission
they're bright blue with even brighter
yellow stripes on the jackets the
skirts or the pens have a bright yellow
stripe on the outside the shirts are
white the shoes are I don't even know I
would call them Clongowes
okay what did you eat every day oh gosh
we ate actually in prison it wasn't so
bad
it was jail that was horrible mm-hmm
the three months in jail you get
everything in a plastic bowl and you get
to avoid swallowing anything you get a
spoon that is the size of a serving
spoon because people swallow items to
end up in hospitals to get better
treatment which I found out later but
yeah everything goes in to it doesn't
matter it just like a pig's trough
it's just all put together and end the
whole excuses it goes into one stomach
anyways mm-hmm so yeah I'll leave it on
its collar so you've been in for a year
they let you go
final
oh it wasn't so easy they separated me
from everybody I didn't even know what
the heck out it wasn't even said
anything about but you going home
nothing okay so the following day I end
up in the truck
they actually trucked me over to the
portal at the portal I got a piece of
paper and right before the train left
they put me on the train and told me see
ya you better not come back into East
Germany you're not getting Vsauce don't
even apply that's like whoops that was
it that's like and then in Hope the
police already waited for me and they
traveled with me on the train all the
way just didn't come to take in the view
they didn't take me off they traveled
with me okay so one when about is this
what you're about is this - 79 78 to 79
so yeah they're still in their glory so
to speak in East Germany this time yeah
you haven't had a decline yet or it's
common but it hasn't happened really it
happened rebellion haven't often on
placed Leipzig and berlin berlin was
easy to suppress because it was the seat
of the government mm-hmm so you had way
much more police Forster however late
tick intestine which are further away
even today are strong areas for
neo-Nazis today but also nationalism and
they did to use my age group was the one
that started together and started you to
revolt against the system anything
it got suppressed rather fast with wit
force would you say that maybe some of
those pockets then in East Germany
where there might be movements of neo
Nazism kind of has its roots in
rebellion against the communists
definitely and it held strong - mm-hmm
however what so sad is they turned it
into nationalism and nationalism it's
just another form of socialism yeah I
mean it's just they're going to the
other end of the spectrum and it ends up
the same way but it was it was the
beginnings of it and I mean the whole
rebellion against the system really
started out of life - contest' and
eventually crew I mean they couldn't
they couldn't suppress it's like thrown
a stone into a lake
the little waves keep going and
spreading spreading spreading eventually
have you ever seen the TV series
Deutschland 83 no you should watch it
that would be fascinating for you I
think it's there's a there's a
there's a show on it's in German
and I'm pretty sure it's German produced
and it's Deutschland 83 so it's in
1983 I don't know how long you were in
Germany 83 I was not was in Lenin so I
was in the University still okay so
there's one year in 83 where they're
still kind of in their glory and their
there their ideology reign supreme but
then it has no H line 86 so the next
season is in takes place in 86 and
things aren't the same so they're there
they're scrapping for money anywhere
they can get it they're trying to go to
Africa and places where they that's done
win ting East Germans did anything that
was foreign Cubans
Africans from certain countries in
Africa Angola yeah places like that they
had preferential treatment mm-hmm
it didn't matter if it was in the stores
in East Germany in East Germany they had
prefer and East Germans looked at
him with a lot of hate they had a
lot of names form
just not human mm-hmm because of that
and in a lot of especially Africans and
I'm not trying to defend it but they got
treatments that weren't too nice mm-hmm
the Nazis come to mind when we're not
think of it because at my grandmother's
village which is a rather small village
if you have 500 head living in the
village you have a lot and it does not
include the cattle mm-hmm
they had two Africans living there they
worked in in the closest city while
Ethan buuck one of them were walked at
night anaconda the most horrible beating
the most horrible beating I think that
was absolutely unnecessary but that's
the hatred that came to the top because
they had preferential treatment these
guys didn't why did they why did they do
that why do they give him preferential
treatment that's actually in this series
I saw that why did it get preferential I
don't even know because it's maybe
they want the connections back in their
country probably they need they need
some connection out there currently
because these were privileged guys to
begin with to come now but East Germany
paid for their stay paid for that travel
I mean they really were privileged even
though they could have come out of a
pool in the village well especially when
you're comparing it with the people in
this Germany that have nothing
exactly they'd have no freedoms and
exactly but the whole abundance of
all he probably didn't even know what
the heck was going on mm-hmm but I think
the beating done that one guy received
in my opinion was overdoing it they let
a frustration out on somebody that was
most likely the innocent one mm-hmm I'm
not trying to defend socialism or
anything but the mistreatment of that
individual was uncalled for
yeah so well what happened when he went
home I mean you went you everything
became normal at that point he went you
went to university
an adjustment period okay and then I got
married and came to the US the first
time holy smokes to learn of the
freedom heal mm-hmm so even in West
Germany you still wanted you're still
you're still too controlled even anyway
I mean you even today even today you do
not move without signing in and out of
your local police department from your
town federally town even if you move on
from the third floor to the first floor
you go to your local police department
and you let them know that you moved
from the third to the first floor you
have six week window to do so even today
in West Germany so it there's a lot of
control and lots of policing mm-hmm
so you're back and you're
in West Germany obviously much better
condition there but you still feel that
there's more freedom available out there
so you're saying that's why I signed up
with I stopped which is an exchange
program on the University and I went to
Italy and that was the first realization
that there is more to life than
just what's offered mm-hmm actually you
bought it even in the store you bought
what you don't have to pay what's on the
ticket no you borrow and if you don't
they look at you like yeah we've
suspicious Samuel I know what's your
problem you know you know so yeah you
bought or in and boy you learned the
language rather fast so i hitchhike home
I meet my now ex-husband who was
stationed in in Venice or near Venice in
Vicenza the City of Gold and he showed
me a world that was even available to me
that was like oh wait a minute what you
can do what and you don't have to and
you can go from Wednesday to the other
moving about without having to tell
anybody that you're moving it's like
okay I'll check it out sure and boy did
I like it that's what
Kaymer US citizen I
I appreciate my freedom I love my
freedom but I'm afraid of the direction
Network taking right now well that's
where I wanted to go next what you know
there's so much what has changed it
seems to me in the last 10 to 15 years
is there's a movement of and I
think social media has something to do
with it I'll use the term privilege has
something to do with it in the sense
that we don't have hardships and so and
I say hardships we don't have hardships
compared to a lot of other countries
you know no wars that most of us are
going to a very wealthy country and so
it's easy to start thinking of other
ideas other systems that hey what about
this over here and in the last 10 to 15
years we have this rise of political
correctness for example you say the last
10 to 15 years I disagree with you ok
the roots are way much evil the roots
were set into 50s those roots I know
what you're talking about I guess what
I'm talking about is the is the
controlling of language yeah the
controlling of link it's just now coming
to the surface we lost control over the
educational system that's where it
started it came into the backdoors to do
to school systems the infiltration the
brain manipulation of the youth which
was also attempted in my case however in
my case it was easy to ignore because I
had a French father in a Russian mother
that grew up in East Germany I mean
sorry but somehow your suppression
doesn't quite sit well with me it really
showed up in in the schools and it
wasn't just schools it was two
universities as well and they really did
get infiltrated and then it's coming
to the surface now okay I felt raided
with what duh
the thought of socialism communism this
especially in the humanities department
yeah and it's fine I mean I don't mind
to help my neighbor because that's what
the Bible says okay I'll be the first
one to help but not to the extent you
stand there and you tell me I have to
help and you pocket money doesn't fly
mm-hmm I share I share to my abilities
to the best of my abilities but do not
force me to share do not tell me it's my
responsibility when it's not do not ask
me to support you when you have means to
support yourself there is
something wrong with the picture here
we cannot solely rely on a government
structure that tells us when to do what
to do how to do where to do when we have
freedom of our own agency if I'm to a
point where I need help
I will ask for help but don't tell me I
have to help because I have two pennies
more than the other I worked for those
two pennies more I'm fixing my roof with
those two pennies I'm not willing to pay
somebody else's roof when I have to take
care of mine first so I'm not saying no
but I am saying no to socialism I'm
saying no to communism communism and
socialism the way it's written
it's la-la-land it's magic it's utopia
it's a utopian ideology that says this
is going to be filling and that's again
what I'm saying about privilege and
about Mabon Dhin so we have here you
start you can have a number of people
start to think oh this is they forget is
what I'm saying you forget you know we
we grew up I grew up in the Cold War
period so did I you know when I had
sirens exactly we had drills on how to
protect in school yeah sure I remember
getting underneath the desk it was there
was a bomb test you know and
it's you know you're reminded a lot more
you know there's a constant threat of
another superpower that wanted to change
your world right and it is and it's
taking place again and it's so open now
in our face where you have to share you
have to do this you have to do that and
then oh the other thing is climate
change because in 12 years were all
going to be gone it's too hard to live
here well wait a minute I heard that in
the sixties already mmm oh it's 2019
we're still yeah and it's a long 12
years
it's just forcing justice trying to
uniform everything it didn't work on the
morrow it didn't work on the blessing
yes it doesn't work on anybody yeah and
I think I think I think that that's the
point again I think that I think that
the issue is there's this idea everybody
would like to help everybody else I mean
most everybody right I mean that's a
common thing and that's what that
ideology plays on it's it plays on that
it says well don't you want to be a
helpful person don't you want don't you
think the poor should be taken care of
and the problem is is that when you
circumvent the individual then you
take everything away you can't have a
civilization survive that way now when
you circumvent the individual and you go
directly to a collective and everybody
has to be part of the collective in the
orthodoxy and then you remove
individualism right and so now what
we've lost is our free will our free
agency is gone or it's barely
surviving on a daily basis and you
better not make it obvious
so is political correctness worse in
Germany that yeah because I know in
England it's not in England it's not so
we've been to England we watch a lot of
BBC shows there's no there's very little
political or Trump's in in every other
sentence I know but there's no they're
not worried about finding a different
race different people but in in in West
Germany or in
Germany now it's extreme it's extreme
we're oh yeah you're not allowed to call
them for Enos anymore not allowed to
call them asylum seekers or what you
actually get punished
you can be fined you can learn for hate
speech for hate speech yeah or if you
say it on social media they actually
fuck you four whole months
that's actually starting to happen in
England as well so I mean it's
ridiculous
it's speech control and that's where it
usually starts worst first that's right
no it's my point about what I'd say this
you cannot you have to accept no you
don't have to accept you have to save
what's bothering you
otherwise they want know what's
bothering you and they continue doing it
and it's exactly what it is they'll
continue doing it because you're not
allowed to say it so you see the
political correctness that's going on
right now this control of language has
something very similar to what you saw
in East German yeah and we're
starting here now oh damn not for Enos
what the heck are they I'm before you
know even though I'm a US citizen I can
proudly say to I'm a US citizen or
foreign origins okay so what most of us
are but I don't have to take it what's
gonna come now if we continue going down
that road you can't do this you can't do
that I'm packing my bags
I already got half of it in nerve so I
can count why do why you dealing oh
because he got more sheep than anybody
else
it's beautiful place I hear oh it is it
is actually I loved it I wouldn't mind
to go back okay so you've been there oh
yeah yeah well is there anything else
that we haven't discussed that you
really would want to say what I want to
say please do not vote Democrats I'm a
registered Republican I'm rather
independent oh I'm not a party person
honestly I I don't like either the
parties I don't I do not care for the
past are taking right now hmm I really
don't care and it's Gary
to me it's Gary well on that line I mean
I will say
I mean it there is now a concern
obviously you've got a major
presidential candidate who comes out and
says he's a democratic a socialist
Democrat basically he made already over
a million just in book in a book that
that doesn't even make sense
if you really read it I mean I read a
little excerpt of it and I'm like wait a
minute wait because he contradicted
himself in it what you're saying is not
what you're doing no he's a little more
equal than everybody else again more
equal than everybody else so and I see
this in the kids too I mean you go to
any university even in a red area right
a place that what you would think would
be very Republican and you're going to
get the kids that are you know person
they haven't lived in reality yet but
there there's a lot of a lot I've seen a
lot of surveys of what seems to be a
more right leaning University and when
Bernie Sanders ran I ran last time he's
usually the number one choice choice for
all colleges magic word free well I
really appreciate you coming in and
talking this is very compelling it's
very very interesting
it really is it's a
fascinating time in history that when
you have gone when you've actually
personally had a experience with what
happens with totalitarianism and the
differences from what you have now and
and I'm not what you saw there and it's
it's earned the hard way it's being kept
a hard way and I'm hoping more able to
keep it what do you think of East
Germany's anthem it was risen from the
ruins oh they'll first started I was
ruining I was dreaming
rebuild out of the ruins the thing about
it they're talking about World War two
the runes are the telephone
working a bunch of clearing of the
pricks so it can be rebuild the ruins
are damages that were done 80% by
Russians 20% by Americans and others
okay but 80% by Russian but it's thanks
to you interesting so very interesting
and that's their motto we're coming out
of the ruins which the Russians Basin
was bombed by the Russians before the
Americans even thought about it that's
really fascinating isn't it
that's brainwashing right there isn't it
thanks again she'll be a really
appreciate you
well that was wonderful we just carried
the road that we're taking now just this
forcing of thinking otherwise
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