Nehor vs Korihor- Battle of the Deniers!
Mar 14, 2019
- Nehor is religious, but denies a Christ
- Korihor is an Atheist, and seeks signs and evidence before faith
- Both remove the godly attributes of Faith, Hope & Charity
- A primer for 'The Nehor Principle', a filter for studying the scriptures.
Raw Transcript
so nehor versus korihor want to go
over a couple of different principles
that we find in each of these as the
book of mormon calls them anti-christ
and of course when we say the word
Antichrist we don't mean someone who is
sent from the other side so to speak but
rather someone who does not believe in
Christ that's what that means it's
someone who is against the belief in the
atonement against the belief in a savior
of the world someone who has died and
has taken on the sins of the entire
world and redeemed mankind that is an
antichrist based on what the book of
mormon has to say but there are two
different Antichrist as the Book of
Mormon focuses in on and gives that
title to the first is nehor and here
with nehor we find in Alma one a
character that is religious that wants
to form in a sense a new church and who
is focused only on the lower law that is
all mankind is automatically redeemed so
God created us and God has redeemed all
of us and therefore consequences to our
decisions do not matter that's something
that gets pulled out when you take out
Christ
now nehor is put into the Book of
Mormon narrative specifically by Mormon
so that we can see what happens when
Christ is removed from religion so we
can keep religion in place we can have a
belief in God we can have a church we
can have a community of common belief
but when we remove Christ from that set
of beliefs we completely change the
spiritual economy of the individuals
that in in that belief system and here's
what I mean by that
the attributes of faith hope and charity
those are completely tied to the Savior
we have first faith in someone who has
died for us and who has borne our
burdens right we have to have faith in
somebody else something outside of
ourselves it changes who we are it
changes our outlook on having spiritual
support it changes our outlook on being
able to grow and progress outward
towards something else it gives us an
example of love and mercy at the very
highest level right our our focus is at
the very highest level is of a God of an
example of a savior of all mankind that
is full of love and mercy that changes
everything it's not just a god of
creation and it's not just a god of
judgment but it is a God that
participates fully in the spiritual
economy not just from prayers not just
from helping to guide us maybe or from
answering some of our will but rather
someone who has completely participated
in fact given the very largest part into
the spiritual economy that allows us to
move forward and to grow so that's
removed without Christ
so having faith in that act in that act
of love and that act of payment in the
atonement changes our theology
completely it changes who we are it
changes how we worship so imagine if you
are a believer in Christ if you are a
member of the church and you took Christ
out of there you still had a belief in
God but you removed the atonement from
the picture then you leave a massive
void obviously of how the spiritual
economy is going to work
now it's just a matter of judgment and
therefore you are the same way right you
are simply going to be working off of
judgment or zero judgment in the sense
that there is no hell and no reason to
have a savior to begin with so faith
first is removed on the atonement
secondly hope is removed and what do I
mean by hope well we can have a hope in
a heaven or a better life if we still
believe in God as nehor does here but
it's not the same hope and that hope is
reliant on us improving on us taking on
our own consequences and guilt and then
laying it on to the Savior that changes
everything
again putting proxy the concept of proxy
in changes the spiritual economy and it
changes what our hope is a hope of us
improving a hope of us progressing not
just being taken and put in it put into
a better state but actually having an
understanding of a hope of a better us a
better future because of who we are
becoming and how we change if all
mankind are automatically redeemed
that's taken out of the picture and all
fulfillment of who we are and how we can
become like the Savior and like our
Heavenly Father is removed from the
picture and and therefore hope is
removed so faith starts everything off a
consequence of faith is hope right faith
in the atonement allows us to have a
look forward as to who we can actually
become not just put into a certain place
where there are harps and constant
singing of hymns and then of course that
hope gives us what the Savior has and
that is love that hope of becoming who
we want
to become is based off of the love of
the Savior that he showed us and that we
are to exemplify because without that
charity that hope is useless because
it's not a hope of just making it to
heaven it is a hope of who we can become
through our own experience and through
the faith before that that we have in
the atonement and so charity then to our
fellow man charity even to God
love is what that means love to mankind
is how we get to that state of ourselves
not just a different environment and us
also then following the example of a
Savior in participating in the spiritual
economy allows us to have that faith
allows us to have that hope and that
hope gives us then the charity the
understanding of the process of becoming
like the Savior right so that is all
removed when we take Christ out of the
picture it's a completely different type
of a religion think of Western
civilization the big difference one of
the two major big differences of Western
civilization is the whole it's it's it's
a even though we're living to some
degree on the fumes of religious
Christianity today we still have in our
minds in as a bedrock in our culture the
idea of a God that suffered below all of
us and paid the price through love and
mercy that changes who we are when we
believe that in that when that is who we
are tied to and that is our bond and
that is our ideal then that is going to
change who we are individually and who
we operate as families and between
fellow men that is going to change
culture dramatically nothing is more important in
culture than religion and so that's a
very big change the other difference
would be the ideas coming from say for
example the Greeks that's the Romans and
and then previous to that actually the
Egyptians but that is one of the major
differences in Western civilization is
the ideal the idea of a suffering loving
God that is fully invested fully
invested in the spiritual economy now
how does that relate to you directly
apart from what your belief is well in
one way I think we ought to be looking
at this is what happens in my life when
I remove myself or I remove Christ from
the situation or from my life in any
degree if I am NOT leaning on the
atonement if I do not have Christ up as
the ideal of what I rely on a loving
merciful God then how does that change
my life how does that change how I deal
with other people the answer to that I
believe is that it reduces your faith it
reduces your trust it reduces your
participation in the spiritual economy
it reduces your hope which puts you in a
completely different state of mind in
your life and then it's going to reduce
your charity it just is it's going to
your your aura if your ideal is not
there before you of of charity of
bearing the burdens of sacrifice then
that is going to change the way that you
live your life and so it's crucial that
we have Christ there as the ideal now we
can take nehor and contrast him with
another Antichrist in the Book of Mormon
who is core whore and in core whore we
can see in Alma 30 we look at somebody a
little bit different
korihor is not like nehor is not religious at all korihor
does not believe in a god period he does
not believe in a community of a church
that worships a god and so his big
difference is that he not only is
removing Christ obviously as an atheist
from the scene but he is also moving any
kind of a god or a supernatural being
that is the creator of all of us and so
his biggest issue Mormon puts the Nair
in the narrative here the biggest issue
here in the conflict in the trial here
between Cora whore and Alma is that Cora
whore wants a sign so as we've discussed
with faith hope and charity Cora whore
here wants to take everything and not
only eliminate it he wants to turn it on
its head completely invert it and he
wants the sign first he doesn't believe
in faith there's no faith there's no
process for us to go through
there's nothing external from us it is
simply signs actions merit he is someone
we might recognize many times over today
who is a an atheist and a an extreme
libertarian maybe and what I mean by
that because I know probably a number of
you that listen to this are our
libertarian or consider yourselves
libertarians but what I mean by that is
that it's a hundred percent merit-based
that's what core Whore believes in he he
believes that every man accomplishes
based on his ability and of course
there's truth to that
but that's all there is there is no
mercy
there's no charity involved with that
here's what he says in in in chapter 30
says that he began to teach against the
prophecies concerning the coming of
Christ it says here in verse 6 and he
was anti
Christ that's how we need to think about
it not as a specifically a title
necessarily as much but as a statement
he was anti-christ he was against the
idea of having Christ and he says that
he did not believe what was spoken by
the prophets concerning the coming of
Christ so he was not gonna look forward
to a redeemer but he believed instead
and he goes on here in the chapter to
say that he does not believe in any kind
of a prophecy or believe in anything
that you cannot see so think of the
atheist a very very libertarian type of
people that would be very focused on
science science is great right but those
that would say look science is basically
my religion science is truth and science
is at the very top of my values and of
my truth hierarchy if you will
that's what Korihor is he is going
to believe specifically in science and
only science and he's going to not
believe in any kind of possible prophecy
no revelation whatsoever does that sound
familiar and he asks this question he
says why do you yoke yourselves with
such foolish things why do you look for
a Christ for no man can know of anything
which is to come so along with obviously
the lack of a belief in God obviously
there would be no belief in Revelation
and then he goes right to the heart of
the idea of Christ this is it right here
this is a great scripture says and many
more such things did he say unto them
telling them that there could be no
atonement made for the sins of men so he
goes right to the idea of proxy he won't
believe it of course that's the entire
gospel is bearing other each other's
burdens right well the entire gospel is
built off of the idea of proxy the
entire gospel is built off the idea of
mercy and atonement payment from
one person to another that is love that
is that is mercy but he says that there
can be no atonement made for the sins of
men but every man fared in this life
according to the management of the
creature right so that's the libertarian
statement right there and again I'm not
saying libertarianism is bad unless it's
it's completely by itself as it does
here with core Whore and he is saying
that look if you're really capable then
that's how well you're gonna do and if
you're not very capable too bad for you
that's just the way it is there's no
mercy going on here whatsoever so live
and let live completely which means nope
no participation in the spiritual
economy with each other and so it says
that he led many when men and women to
commit all sorts of sins because there's
no belief in having a faith in something
outside of yourself in leaning on
something by proxy therefore there is no
hope for a future because obviously if
you don't believe in an afterlife or you
don't believe in the ability to have you
don't believe in eternal progression and
you're not going to have at least as
much charity or love for each other if
you don't have that ideal at the top of
your of your values and then again he
gets right to the crux of everything and
and inverts this this is out how Mormon
is is stating this here he says if he
says us to Alma if thou wilt show me a
sign that I may be convinced that there
is a god yay show unto me that he hath
power and then will I be convinced of
the truth of thy words as Alma has gone
and tried to testify to him about the
existence of God so he wants a sign
first and you can see how that goes
hand-in-hand with someone who would be
an atheist because if I have to have all
of the evidence up front
then I'm gonna have a real problem with
faith and building up to receive that
evidence and and by the way this is a
very important issue that doesn't mean
that you don't ever receive the evidence
that's the whole point to say that faith
is not based on evidence if you've
watched my video on faith is wrong you
faith is based on evidence the growth of
faith is based on evidence but you can't
invert the process if you are a few are
wanting the sign first and and then you
can believe in something then what the
Book of Mormon is teaching us here what
Mormon is teaching us here is that you
have just lost all of your own personal
growth the value is so high on the
ability to trust in principles and to
trust in the atonement that it is at the
center of the entire gospel it is the
first principle of the gospel and
without that we cannot have personal
progression we cannot move forward and
become more like the Savior if we are
signed seekers first then we lose out on
our spiritual progression obviously
becoming like the Savior has everything
to do with exerting and building faith
and having that trust in these
principles and in the atonement and he
wants to say no it's the other way
around
but if we do build that faith and have
those principles where we learn to work
with them just like we would with
someone else we have trust in then the
evidence does come if we are exerting
the faith then we get greater faith as
the evidence pours on more and more and
more and more but not evidence first we
plant the seed we nurture the seed and
then we get the fruit
that's how life works and Cora are here
watch the fruit and then he would say
okay now maybe I'll I'll plant the seed
right he doesn't want to go plant the
seed and nurture it and build and water
the tree and fertilize the tree and then
receive the fruit that's how everything
works he wants to do it backwards and
that just doesn't work so we have these
two competing anti Christ's or against
the idea of Christ one on the one hand
is Nehor who is religious who is a
believer in God but he is focused only
on the lower law and he does not believe
in anything that needs to participate in
kind of a participation in a spiritual
economy with God that would include
faith and hope and charity and burying
each other's burdens and we can see that
in ourselves sometimes I know that I can
then on the other hand we have Korihor who there's where there's no
belief in God whatsoever
and in that position Mormon couples it
with being a sign seeker and not being
able to have the faith first and then
the evidence but to turn it on its head
and have the evidence first and then
have the faith afterwards which doesn't
work anyway you're skipping a major step
in that position so this applies in our
own life we all have a little bit don't
get too defensive on me here we all have
a little bit of Nehor in us and in a
little bit of Korihor and these
are places that we just don't want to
spend much time in or move down those
paths where we remove Christ from our
lives or the idea that Christ represents
for us in how we're going to live our
lives
consider this a small primer to the
fourth filter that I like to use in the
scriptures that I call the Nehor
principle and I will be focusing on that
a lot more in the lessons as we go
forward in these episodes and I will be
doing a an episode or two specifically
on the Nehor principle and what the
loss of Christ means to the ancient
Israelites those in the Book of Mormon
and elsewhere that we find in the
scriptures I'll talk to you next
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