I'm very
excited about this interview with Dr
Carol Swain this is someone I have
followed for the last couple of years
she's been in the media a lot more the
last 30 days because she is one that the
former Harvard president Claudine gay
plagiarized she pulled a lot of her
ideas took some exact quotes from some
of Dr Swain's work Dr Swain is so
someone whose voice needs to be
Amplified and heard more her last book
is the adversity of diversity she talks
about why Dei does not work and how
these things are breaking down our
civilization I think you're really going
to like this here we
[Music]
go all right welcome to quick my name is
Greg Matson and I am your host in this
episode we have invited Dr Carol Swain
very special guest onto the show Dr
Swain welcome to the program thank you
so much for having
me well in the news here recently over
at Harvard again we have the chief div
diversity and inclusion officer Sher
Anne Charleston who was just hit with 40
plagiarism accusations including
claiming the credit for her husband's
writings this is just another Domino
here at Harvard what what is going on
over there I mean I could say that the
high-profile cases that we've focused on
involve individuals that were hired
probably to advance diversity equity and
inclusion but there are certainly are
white researchers and white authors and
journalists that have been caught
plagiarizing but in the case of Harvard
because everyone thought it was the gold
standard you know the the flagship
International University where all of
our Supreme Court Justices heads of
newspapers and elit should come from uh
it's even more a startling the low
standards there I for one hope that it
leads to a dethroning of Harvard for a
long time I felt that because Harvard
has the reputation of being Harvard that
people who should not be in positions of
authority were placed there just because
they had a Harvard
degree okay
so this is very odd to me I mean this
goes right to what you talk about even
in your book with with Dei your book The
adversity of diversity great Title by
the way um what are we going to here we
have the flagship University where we
seem to have lowered standards to put
Dei it's almost it's almost a parody in
in that case and you know we say
Flagship University to refer to our
state universities Harvard was above
that it was the world class
International
University uh the gold standard of
universities and what is going on is
that critical race Theory I would argue
and Marxism has led leaders to uh
endorse a set of ideas and values that
have just led to a Lauren of standards
and we find also at Harvard they have a
chaplain who is an atheist he's the
university chaplain uh it's just so
um dismaying because the ivy league
institutions I believe all except one of
them were established uh for the
training of Christian ministers and so
they uh almost started off as seminaries
most of the great universities uh of the
western world started out um as
religious institutions the fact that
they have been turned upside down and
that they are full of corruption
immorality uh many of the worst ideas
that have impacted our society came from
uh scholars in these institutions and we
find that at Harvard even in the the
medical field that there are doctors in
cancer research in Neuroscience that
also plagarized and they're having to
retract their papers and these are
people that are impacting public policy
these are the ones who get appointed to
high cabinet
positions you know you're you're kind of
right in the middle of this you're
you're a political science and legal
scholar you've written and gotten
published several times uh you are one
where at least in a couple of cases
cloudine gay ex president of of Harvard
plagiarized you in your works from your
books so you've got a direct feeling of
exactly what this means as far as being
plagiarized and then she puts out a
letter uh in a resignation that and she
doesn't even acknowledge this in on the
on the side of about the plagiarism how
does that make you feel with this and
and more importantly what does this mean
in in terms of put putting someone up in
that position right there how do you
what have I there lots of things going
on first of all I'd like to make clear
that uh I didn't just publish a few
articles I have 12 books that uh were
either single authored or edited but
claudon gay has no books and my first
book Black Faces black interest the
representation of African Americas in
Congress won three National prizes
including the highest prize a political
scientist can win it was cited uh uh
three times by the US Supreme Court in
in two different cases and uh and it was
the seminal book on representation it
was a pathbreaking book that opened up
many areas of research for other
Scholars that's what she pleasu in her
dissertation and and so it how it makes
me feel first of all I didn't know that
the pleasur ism occurred and in the late
1990s during the time that I was about
to leave Princeton I kept hearing about
this Brant black woman and by then my
ideas had started to cause me to fall
out of favor because I questioned race
based affirmative action and I was not
with the program and this was after I
was ten yet uh but I heard about
Claudine gay and her brilliant she was I
had no idea that she was still in my
research to have frame her dissertation
and that when I looked at her early
articles I would see U my ideas of
really being used to frame those um uh
articles she cites me in the
bibliography of of many of those papers
but she doesn't uh site me as the
inspiration of her work and she doesn't
site me in many places where I should
have been cited if you were
intellectually honest and how it makes
me
feel uh you you know I feel like uh she
her whole research was built on my back
and that she does not have a record that
would warrant Tenya at a tier one
institution much less in Ivy leak school
and that she's not really doctor gay
because to be doctor you have to
successfully defend a dissertation that
has original ideas she did not uh she
borrowed from many people's research for
her dissertation so in my opinion and
she's not even a doctor and how does it
make me feel that she's drawing a
$900,000 a year a salary she's on the
faculty and she blamed racism for um her
exposure uh it doesn't make me feel good
for higher education and academic
Integrity when Harvard chose to stand
behind her and instead of uh admitting
at first the pleasur ism they called it
duplicative language and they're still
trying to make the the case that what
she did doesn't rise to the level that
would warrant her dismissal I disagree
but if Harvard starts uh dismissing all
the people that they're catching for
pleasur ISM there's gon to be a lot of
job opportunities at
Harvard that's that's
interesting well so we look at here we
have clouding gay the example of
clouding gay what we have uh really what
seems to be this what brought this all
out was the hypocritical uh opinions of
anti-Semitic attitudes on campus at MIT
at uh uh upen Etc it it was
what how has Academia gotten to this
point where where it's almost as if
everyone's had their head in the sand on
what is happening here and now all of a
sudden after George Floyd this explosion
of of it's almost like the curtains been
pulled back right on everything how did
we get this far without mainstream
culture knowing what's
happening but they became an activist
more interested in Social Engineering
than in truth and there's a h article
posted on X this morning or Twitter this
morning about Chris rufo and he's being
accused of of of sharing an article by
some people they accused of scientific
racism and during the time I was at
Princeton uh the human genome Pro uh
project had a number of Princeton
Scholars uh working on it high-profile
and I remember attending some of their
uh lectures where they discussed
findings uh they're making a decision or
at least uh it was known that there was
certain findings that they would never
um share or reveal because uh they f
felt it was too troubling and so when it
comes to you know differences between
human beings or people groups uh or even
you know the human genome product would
settle everything about whether men can
be women or women can be men it's all
there but because of the desire to
engage in Social
Engineering uh we find that scientists
are not totally honest with us and I
think it happened because of the Marxism
the ends justify means and universities
see themselves as the vehicles for
social and political change and they
believe that they the elite structure
that they get to decide how the rest of
us should live our lives and they do
this by punishing people who they
consider apostate and by withholding
information and by distorting science
and they're activists they're not
Scholars well you know you you bring up
Marxism right this is something that I
think a lot of people have an issue with
they hear that and they say come on this
is conspiracy theory um and yet anyone
who has studied the roots of a of Dei or
or some of critical social justice uh
what a lot of people call the culture of
wokeness it goes right down through well
you go right down whether it's Kimberly
khaw Derek Bell going back into Angela
Davis going into uh mark C in the frankf
for school and Grampy and then it goes
right down to Marks and Eng Les why is
there this push back on on understanding
that these are what we're getting today
with Dei these are marxian rooted
tenants well some of the uh people that
push those ideas don't deny that it's
Marxism they think Marxism and is great
and they would like a Socialist
Communist Society in fact you see how
communist China has SP so well whenever
there's a democr
president uh I think that they really do
believe that capitalism is evil they as
Elites believe that if they destroy
America and the Western world that
somehow they will be on top and um and
so for the people who have less
education are the ones who are very
trusting of leaders it's easy to say oh
they're a bunch of conspiracy theorists
don't pay any attention to them
but we do know it is Marxism it has
seeped into every sector of our society
and it's part of the destruction of the
family the destruction of uh differences
between males and females the
transgender isation of children the
pushing of
pedophilia every uh decadent thing the
pushing of the Church of Satan above the
Christian Church the
anti-Semitism all of these things are
connected and in in many different ways
uh some of us know that uh and you know
I don't mind being called a conspiracy
theorist to me it just means that you're
getting too close to the truth whenever
you get too close to the truth they try
to discredit you by calling you a
conspiracy theories it means you over
the
target yeah definitely I think as you
pull you you bring up all these
different ideas the the sexual
Liberation that goes right along with
the idea of critical theory and throwing
off the shackles of the oppressor or
anybody else they're throwing off the
shackles of of social norms and and and
sexual some order of
sexuality they destroy civilization and
even this crazy Looney situation in
America on the campus is where there's
so many students that are pramas and
they think Israel is evil and uh these
people can excuse uh the weaponization
of of rape and the brutality that took
place they pretend that it didn't take
place and they would choose barbarism
over civilization you know that uh when
you see these things happening that
there's something terribly wrong with
the universities that they have allowed
young people to be on those campuses
that hold those views unchallenged there
doesn't seem to be any adults in charge
and of the adults that are in charge if
they are member of a quote protected
group group a Dei group they are pretty
much they have free reign to do whatever
they want to do they're not going to
lose their jobs they're not going to be
suspended they can get away with saying
and doing anything that's why those
three University presidents could not
they struggled with condemning uh
genocide whether or not it would be
against that school's policies to call
for the genocide of Jews they struggled
with
that yeah that's uh you know I'm pulling
a quote here from uh your book The
adversity of diversity you say we'll get
into the Dei here but you say Dei
training breeds racism pure and simple
it's workers and Advocates know that and
they don't care that the rest of us know
that they believe they are in total
control of this stuff and that there is
nothing the rest of us can do about it
so that's exactly what you're saying
there there is this level of of
confidence that that they have because
they're not checked
right there there's not a whole lot of
checking and you've got Academia where
you've got really what used to be a more
of a classical liberal environment 50
years ago has has moved into a Marxist
environment and and there just seems
doesn't seem to be many checks on on
that side of the political
Spectrum well the arrogance that they
have and they've gotten away I would say
they've gotten away with merido they've
gotten away with so much and if you look
at the Americans that are incarcerated
because of January 6 there are people
that are in jail and in prison who have
not even had a trial and and they're
seeing you know most if not all are
probably white uh it seems like they've
set up a system where if you are
conservative if you a Christian if you a
white you don't get the same rights as
uh the protected groups to protest and
to exercise your first amendment rights
and even with um any uh in in Tennessee
we have a case where there were six
people that pro-life Ordinary People
your neighbors down the street uh they
were protesting at a and an abortion
Center they were charged under a new law
that the Biden Administration passed
called the face act where they have been
they can be sentenced to up to 11 years
in prison they've been convicted of
violating a federal law that was put
through to really stop protests at at
abortion clinics and so the January
Sixers have been made
examples little by little the First
Amendment rights of conservatives are
being Stripped Away and we find that
with the truck Convoy that that uh that
has been organized or is in Pro process
in progress uh headed towards um Eagle
Pass
Texas that only about 20 trucks showed
up uh and the left would mock that but
what it is is that I think people got
wise they did not want the uh FBI uh
setting them up and creating a situation
where they end up being stripped of
their rights like the first amendment
protesters I call them protesters it was
a protest uh some people got out of hand
and they rioted but they certainly
didn't come close to what was done uh
after the death of George Floyd and
after many of urban riots and what took
place in Portland not even comparable
the things that the left has done with
no
consequences yeah that's it's
it's again the hypocrisy is absolutely
incredible and what this what this
intersectional intersectionality Dei has
done is it has as you say it protects
certain groups elevates them and it
lowers others and those groups are not
just from immutable characteristics they
are from political positions as well CH
for example I mean they they they're
participating in a
settlement million dollar multi-million
dollar settlement and you know many of
them are just white people that are
affiliated with BLM and so they're
redistributing income but they're
putting money into the hands of their
activists and we see every time that
there's something being planned by
conservatives there are there are these
job notices that have been posted where
they're looking for crisis actors why
would the government be looking for
crisis actors and be hiring people you
know to participate in these events um
you know these things are taking place
and I would argue that the proponents of
Dei they don't care about the groups
they purport to represent they don't
care about blacks they don't care about
gays and lesbians They Don't Care About
Women if they cared about women they
wouldn't allow men to take over women's
uh Sports and men to beat up women in
some cases kill women They Don't Care
About Women it's all about destroying
America as we know it and eroding those
Traditional Values and principles and
just the things that we have known
uh throughout the centuries as truth
their their goal is to destroy
everything and to elevate that which is
evil yeah Dr SW that that is that that
is so true there's a this pernicious
idea with this you know I call this the
Hydra because it's it's all again comes
back to marxian tenants and then there's
different heads that seem to kind of
represent the humanities departments at
universities but it's it and the ever
growing disciplines that are brought up
within the the university but it it all
points back to uh this idea of let's
find vehicles that we can use that are
Laden with with
empathy in in order to try and push
forward this this marxian agenda of of
Bringing Down the systems the status quo
Liberty Western thought so that we can
replace it with something completely
different different and but but most
people they've done such a good job of
this of of branding these things as no
this is about helping racism this is
about helping people with sexual
orientation that that to come you really
have to pull back the curtain to
understand that they don't care about
the means right that you know for them
the means justify the
end and you know they have kept us so
distracted and some of it for uh Trump's
supporters have had to do with the many
many cases uh in his he and uh that
egene Carol dominating the news
meanwhile the Biden Administration is
very quickly changing uh health care
care laws in a way that's detrimental
they've been able to sneak through uh
administrative rules where you don't
have to give inform consent anymore to
be experimented on and unless people
wake up and and can get enough
mobilization in May of this year the
World Health Organization will be able
to control our health care in the case
of another pandemic that and we know
that the World Health Organization is
affiliated with communist China Bill
Gates helps fund it and they will be
able to dictate medical protocol which
means if you were to go to a hospital or
go to a doctor they might be able to
force you to take certain treatments
because it would be the World Health
organization's protocol that is an issue
that I think most of us forgot about it
back in 2022 Biden uh the senate pass uh
under Biden legislation that Republicans
were not able to block they're calling
what they're doing an agreement and not
a treaty but at the end of the day
unless enough people wake up and push
back that authority over our Health Care
system will go to the UN because the
World Health Organization isn't a
affiliate of the UN most of us uh know
that the UN does not like America it
doesn't have our best interest and
there's so many things that are going on
so many things that are wrong uh and
we're so distracted that we allowing
these things to take place and what
Obama Started as far as I would say the
destruction of America and Western uh
civilization uh the Biden Administration
has taken it to a whole new level and
having biten someone that's clearly
struggling you know with cognitive uh
disability I don't know if it's Dementia
or what it is he serves that purp their
purposes because they're able to do all
these things around him and while a
conservatives may be laughing at him and
all the mistakes he's making and um they
have us focused on what they're doing to
president Trump meanwhile they're
slipping all this stuff
through yeah that you know I want to end
on this I I did an episode recently that
I called MLK versus
Dei and you know so much of what we see
here with with intersectionality which
is just a broader umbrella of of
critical race Theory um has to do with
this idea of color
blindness and right you know Martin
Luther King and his very famous speech
what he's most known for and remembered
for was all about the character of the
individual the individual right as
compared to the color of our skin and
yet those that came together and and and
pulled in from critical theory and
pulled in from postmodernism and radical
feminism created this critical race
Theory and Beyond and this is the world
now that we live in um they never liked
that they never agreed with that they
pushed off on that they did not want a
civil liberties uh push that fit within
the framework of the Constitution right
they wanted something completely
different how do you see the idea of
color blindness today how should we be
approaching it I mean it's totally been
rejected by the left in fact IAM X KY
who has become uh you know one of the
Saints of the left he argues that for
racism racism in favor of racial and
ethnic minorities he labels all white
people as racist and so uh the notion of
a colorblind Society non-discrimination
no they want discrimination in favor of
certain groups and that's how someone
like Claud and gay and this other uh
lady the the Dei woman and various other
groups of the pro Palestinian groups
that are on campuses they have been able
to rise and have inordinate power
because of the system ideally we would
go back to the 1964 Civil Rights Act its
goal was to prohibit discrimination on
the basis of race sex um gender color
national origin and uh and and later
disabilities were added it was to stop
discrimination it protects whites Asians
it protects men as well as females uh it
protect Christians as well as Muslims uh
and
Jews uh that was good
legislation and it created an
environment where uh equal opportunity
was sought people got their feet in the
door they were able to prove themselves
but Equity is about equal outcomes and I
think that Equity um should be
eliminated there are corporations that
are moving away from uh Dei we need to
go back to the Civil Rights Act of 1964
that would bring us closer to the
original colorblind notion and our goal
of integration at one time we wanted to
be integrated we wanted assimilation but
just like color blindness has become a
bad word so has assimilation I think we
need to reclaim what we once knew and uh
and we need to educate people and
there's so many people that Dei sounds
great it sounds great on the outside but
when you look under the underneath it is
racist it is evil it harms racial and
ethnic minorities and women uh Dei has
allowed men to take over women's sports
men to uh steal beauty pageant uh uh
contests from women men to invade
women's faces and all they have to do is
feel like a a woman that particular day
or say they feel like a woman they can
go into the ladies room that is
ludicrous those ideas come from our
University yeah well Dr Swain your voice
is needed we need to amplify your voice
much more and that's what I'm trying to
do here I've read your works and uh love
what you're doing and and whatever I can
do to help out in leveraging your voice
I would love to do that thank you so
much for coming on the program thank you
it's my
[Music]
pleasure
