Masculinity's Calling - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Bubba Page Speed Dating W/ Taylor Frankie Paul

Going in blind, Bubba Page stepped into a speed dating scene with Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and sat with Taylor Frankie Paul. We also talk about masculinity, fatherhood, and the role of men in and out of the church.

 Raw Transcript

All right, welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host.
In this episode, we bring on Bubba Paige who made an appearance on The Secret Lives of Mormon wives. He was in a speed dating scene with Taylor, Frankie, Paul.
We also talk about masculinity and the role of men in the church in an environment, in a culture where things are shifting very quickly against men.
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Scroll to the top to warriors. you'll learn what this is all about and if you want you can register there as well. I hope to see you there. Here we go with Bubba.
Welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. In this episode, we bring on Bubba Paige, who had a recent appearance on The Secret
Lives of Mormon Wives. We're going to talk about masculinity and fatherhood. Bubba, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks Greg for having me.
All right. Now, walk me through how in the world you ended up as a as a guest or invite on to The Secret Lies of Mormon Wise.
You know what? It shocked me just as much as anybody else. Uh, the reality was I had just done a podcast about a week before um with a a dating podcast
and they were hosting a speed dating event, which I'll be honest, I'm not a speed dating guy. That's I've never done it before. Haven't done it since. Um,
and when she reached out, she said,
"Look, Bubba, would you please come and support? You know, we we we need another guy to come. There's a group that's" And I was like, "No, that's that's not." And
suh she asked again and I was like, "You know what? I'll come. I'll come support you. I've never done this before. Why not? And it was a a week when I didn't
have my kids. We have 5050 custody. And I, for those who are watching, I was divorced about a year and a half ago. Yeah. I grew up with that.
Yeah. And so, so I didn't have my kids and I was like, "Okay, you know what?
Let's do it. What could it hurt?" She said, "You do have to sign a a waiver because there's going to be people recording." And I was like, "Well, who?"
She says, "Well, we can't tell you who's coming. that's part of the rules with the the production companies, whatnot.
And I was like, "Okay, look, I've I've done little little things like this on camera before, but I had no idea what would be going on." So, I get to the event and it's great. It's casual.
There's, you know, let's say 20 of us or whatnot, and we're just getting to know each other. And about a half hour into this whole thing, the the TV cruise
starts to like pour in and and that's when good old Secret Lives of Morin Wives That's a serious. Yeah.
Yeah. Three of the actors actresses come in and I call them actresses because reality TV is not real. I hope anybody
who's watching this knows that. Um it's not that it's completely and fully scripted. Uh but everything was planned
and they they knew exactly what was going. I think they even knew what angle they were going to take when going to this type of a of an event.
Anyway, so um I had never seen the show.
still haven't seen the show, but I I did know who they were through social media.
Um anyway, uh you know what? I was able to sit down and we did the whole speed dating thing and so uh the men moved
around, the women stayed at their table and and we went ahead and had five minutes with each person.
It was, you know, look, I'm I am in my 40s and uh dating in my 40s is a whole different ball game than when I was in
my 20s. And so I want to talk about that, too. By the way,
we we can talk about that because it's an interesting it's an interesting ball game. And uh this was a unique experience to be able to get to know
people in a pretty quick way. They had different games on the tables that you could do to like break the ice. I didn't touch any of the games of any of the
tables because I just wanted to dive right into questions to get to know these people. And so when I was sitting there with Taylor Frankie Paul and look,
my clip on the show is so short. We had a great conversation. Actually, I just asked her straight out. Um, I said, "How
are you healing from everything that you've been through because I knew enough context from social media to to to know, you know, how are you?"
She's been through a lot, right?
Is this before or after the leak of a video and and Oh, way before we filmed this in like October,
maybe even September. It was like September, October time frame. Um, and because two weeks after the speed dating
event, I got reached out to by two separate casting companies for the Bachelorette.
So, they had not they had not accumulated all of the men that they wanted for the Bachelorette for Taylor Frankie Paul.
And so, they had both reached out. I posted about it. It's on my It's on my Instagram, Bubba Page. Um, with the screenshots of these two different
casting companies saying, "Hey, we've seen your profile. You seem like you'd be a great fit. Would you be interested?" And so, it's funny because I I took a phone call with them to understand what this would look like.
And they said, "Look, you need to be away from your family for three months."
I was like, "Okay, that's never going to happen. I look, I'm a dad with eight kids. I'm not going to be away from them for three months. That's insane." So,
um, because I said, "Well, if anything like this were to happen, I'd be able to either fly them to me or I could go to them in between." And they were like,
"No." And so, that that was already a no-go.
And then obviously I my background and if anybody's followed me for any time frame, um, look, Taylor Frankie Paul,
she was a sweet person. we ended up having a great conversation and uh and we did we we were able to talk a little
bit deeper about, you know, what healing looked like. Um but our lifestyles are obviously very different and our values
are different and our life choices are different. And so, um it wasn't a fit for me to choose to go on on that show as a contestant. Yeah.
To be somebody who has because you're not pursuing what you want to pursue,
right? It would be very inauthentic for me to go on that show. Although I have to be honest, there was a It would be an experience though, Bubba,
wouldn't it? I mean, you go on even if you know you're acting through the whole thing. I was like, "Okay, I I did this." I don't know. Maybe at the same time,
you feel like kind of like, "Ew," you know? I don't.
Well, so look, I I don't I don't really I don't support the show. Like, I just don't believe in its context. I don't believe in the sexual sexuality that it,
you know,
goes into. I don't I just don't It's not my type of show. It's not my cup of tea.
But there was a split second where I thought to myself, could I be a missionary? Could I go there and be a
real Mormon guy who's who's trying his best to live the standards and actually
be someone that uh maybe could be an example. And that was quickly overrun by I have no control over the editing. I
have no control over how they're going to perceive or even take my words and splice and cut and whatever. And um and
that to me felt like a danger zone, like red flags. And so I declined. I didn't go through with anything. And it and it wasn't it's it wasn't for me.
It's like who who are you going to be publicly after that?
It's whatever the perception is from the show and and you don't get to control that,
right? So luckily I have a I have me online. I'm I'm the same online as I am in person. There is no difference when I'm on, you know, when I'm sharing on
social media. Uh, look, I' I've been online. My ex-wife and I were were online for over a decade. And so, we've
we've worked through and with and as influencers. Um, I'm an entrepreneur first. That's my that's my career is as
an entrepreneur and now an an investor into startups. And, um, an influencer comes secondary, tertiary, whatever you
want to call it. But, I do know that world very very well. And I've worked with a lot of people in that world. and um and even been on reality shows
before. And so it's uh you have to be very careful because as the actor you have zero control over what they say and
how they're going to say it and how they influence and splice and cut. So so please anyone who's who's been watching reality shows please know they are not
real. Um they have a lot of pieces that are scripted. They have a very specific angle because they need to make money by getting views. So, they're going to do
get views by making it as wild and as crazy as possible. Um, and it's uh and so just know anyone that's out there.
But here here's one thing I wanted to share. So, as I'm having this this conversation, um I did ask her how many kids she she thought I had. And she said, "Oh, probably four." And I said,
"I do have four girls." And then she said, "Oh, okay. Then you have five."
And I said, "I have four boys." And so then she kind of stepped back.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, you have eight. And I'm like, yeah, I've got eight from one wife, uh, you know, married almost 18 years. And, uh, it's a beautiful chaos.
I love it. I mean, these kids, it's everything. Fatherhood is one of the most beautiful divine gifts that's ever been given to to me. I mean, and motherhood. Fatherhood and motherhood.
Obviously, I'm speaking from my perspective. Um, it's such a beautiful divine gift.
So, but as I'm having this conversation with with Taylor Frankie Paul, um, and I wrote this in my post well before any of
the any of the things came out and the videos and whatnot. Um,
she she was just hurting. I could just feel through her eyes. It's almost like I was given a glimpse into her soul for just a minute and I just had compassion.
11 minutesI just felt sad. I felt sad. It was almost like a little girl who was lost didn't know where to find peace and joy
and that there was so many things that had gone on in her life and she didn't know exactly what to do, how to do, and
be that she was lost and and so I did have compassion for her. Um, and so when I wrote that in my post, um, even though
I don't uh it wasn't the right it wasn't right for me to go on and be a contestant for her on that show. That
wasn't a thing. um for me, but but I did have compassion because when you're put in the spotlight like that and you've made some unique choices that maybe
you're not proud of um it's it's it's going to be really hard. And so anyway,
it was just one of those things that I felt uh I felt like I was given a glimpse um
that not maybe not everybody has had a chance to see when they're when they're just looking at online stuff. So you say you don't support the show. Uh
nor do I. But what sometimes I feel that there there's this idea of of perception
of let's say of the church uh that that is put out there and it's like if you put hashtag Mormon on anything, you're going to get more views right now.
Right. Sure.
And and and it's but but it's unfortunately it's not about our our doctrine or what the church does. It's about pop culture.
Yeah. Right. Somehow Mormons are in the midst of right in the middle of the heart of pop culture right now. Um, do
you I I remember going back and seeing the the the Book of Mormon musical and at the time I I remember a family
member saying this is the worst thing ever and they're just so mad at it and and and and I thought, you know what,
this is a great opportunity for the church because we're we're actually being brought into pop culture and into
the discussion to some degree. And our reaction, of course, was beautiful. You know, you've seen the musical, now read the book. was was an amazing response to
that, right? And so there it did have some discussion, you know, going on and it was back when Mitt Romney was running, too, so there was kind of a Mormon moment. But, uh, what are your
thoughts on that? I mean, is is any publicity good publicity, even if it's bad, does it does it center people into saying, "Okay, well,
this is kind of gross, but you know,
what are those Mormons about? Do I I need to want to look into that a little bit more? And is there a net positive that comes out of this? Or is there at
some point where you have all of these streaming shows that are negative on on on Mormonism on the church?
Is there a point where you would get to where it's just overwhelming and it's it's it can't be good?
You know what? As an entrepreneur and as an investor, PR is PR.
And so I do agree with the statement that even if it's bad PR, it's still PR.
Yeah. And and it depends on what you do with that PR that you can have an incredible impact for good. And and look, having a Mormon moment, uh, right,
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-
14 minutesDay Saints right now is in the spotlight constantly. And and obviously that can be hard. That can be hard to deal with.
And and not a lot of people know what to do or to say. And I've never even seen the play, the Broadway play. And yet
having a spotlight shone on something uh that you know I hold near and dear to my heart even when it's in a negative light
um it brings up questions because look I have I grew up in San Francisco the Bay Area and so I had a lot of non
non-member friends not members of the church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints and so they know me they know who I am
and the people who I've been neighbors with for the last, you know, two decades or three decades. They know me and my family. They know my children. We played
on the same sports teams and we've we've had activities together. I've had them over for swim parties and barbecues.
Like, they know who I am. And so when they see something that's so not representative of our faith,
I think a lot of people are able to distinguish and say, "Okay,
that's not the Mormons that I know, you know, because I know these people who are kind, who are serviceoriented, who are all about their families, who try to
hold their families together at all costs, you know, who are who are looking to do good, and who are genuinely nice
and happy people who still have trials and challenges just like anyone else.
Um, but they've treated me as a neighbor or as a coach or as a they've treated me kindly and they've dealt with me honestly. Now, the law of large numbers
is going to say that there are going to be members of any religious organization who are going to do negative things and who are going to go to jail or who weren't honest or who weren't kind.
That's just the reality of the world.
And and I do have a sense that as we get more and more focused on uh the church
as a whole, there will have more negative things come to light because we are a global organization and we have
multi-millions of members. Uh are we getting close to 17 18 million members of around the world now in the
percentage basis? We're still a tiny organization compared to other religions in the in the world, but um but knowing that there are millions and millions of members,
there is going to be more and more things that come to light that are that I know I'm not going to be proud of that
were done by members of this uh of of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I think I I'm almost I this
is my feeling and maybe I'll regret sharing this.
I have a feeling that as we are in the last days, I truly believe we are in the last days. The signs of the times are
here. I believe that we are living what the prophets have prophesied right now.
And that it is time for us to prepare physically and spiritually and emotionally. Um um and that that we are in this this moment in time where we
will be tested. We will be tested to our absolute limits. And as we've been told,
there is no standing on the fence anymore. You are on one side or you are on the other. If you're standing in the middle, you you are going to be pushed
one way or another. And we need to make that choice of whose side are we on.
Now, that doesn't mean that we are at war with other people. That's that's not I'm not a supporter of that. We can be kind and loving and love our neighbors
as ourselves all across the world. But from an ideology standpoint, what we believe and what we stand for, what we stand for has
to come out now. And so I have felt compelled to share my faith online. And I know that my my audience is not
primarily Mormon. They're not of my faith. But we believe in Jesus Christ.
18 minutesWe believe in the atonement of our savior and that he is the savior of all mankind. That he is the only way that we can make it back to the father. and we we agree upon those those sentiments,
those pieces of our faith even if we don't go to the same church every Sunday, which is totally fine. Um and
and so I I believe though my warning uh that I feel is that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints are going to be faced with incredible incredible challenges. And I believe that the the things that will come out
in the future days, the coming days will rock our world so so much when it may be
people in the the the church that we look up to, um that we have revered,
that we respect, um that have maybe not done things that were appropriate in the past, and it comes out. And I think we
have to be so rock solid in our faith in Jesus and in the gospel of Jesus Christ and not in man
that that when those things come to light potentially that we are not shaken out of our faith. I have I have a sense
that we are we are he's trying to prepare us. he, the the prophets, the apostles, they're trying to tell us to hear him because some of the people that
we we've worked with or that we look to or that we hear from um maybe they're not living the lives that we think. And and when those things come come to bear,
uh we need to be prepared to to hold our faith in Jesus and in the gospel of Jesus and not in the the men or women who are um who are always there. Now,
look, um I believe in a prophet of God.
I believe in the apostles and I believe that we are led and guided um by Jesus Christ through these these people. I am 100% a supporter and a believer in that.
Um I also know that uh Judas was also he did not fulfill his uh maybe he did
maybe that was his exact mission that he was supposed to fulfill on this earth.
But I think there are there are things in the scriptures that are preparing us for the last days that we need to be aware of. And again, I may regret saying
this, but um I know that I'm trying to build my faith in him who is mighty to
save, and that is Jesus. And I look to our prophet and our apostles as leaders and as guides. And they point us to
Jesus as that's their ultimate that's their ultimate goal is for us to have that full salvation through uh his
sacrifice. Anyway, hopefully I didn't cross too many.
No, that that's fine. I mean, I think that's called critical thinking and that's okay. So, it it's, you know, it's interesting because I've had this discussion lately a lot with individuals
about that exact thing. You know, I just did an episode, in fact, it was with Kurt on uh on on prophetic revelation versus individual revelation, right?
21 minutesKind of is there a conflict? What I always come back to is,
you know, when Jesus says the Sabbath was created for man, man was not created for the Sabbath,
right? And so sometimes we take the church and it becomes what we worship,
right? It it it becomes what we trust in most more than God himself because we haven't built maybe that relationship with God as we should. And so when we do that,
we're going to we we all of a sudden if then then things can fall down and break apart a lot easier when something does go wrong as you said or a policy that
comes out that you don't agree with or whatever a talk at general conference is completely opposite of what you expected
and and so but I understand also that there's a fine line there is that that is there because if you push
that too hard then all of a sudden you move over you can move to a spectrum on the side of the spectrum that says is,
22 minuteswell, I don't even need organized religion. Yeah. I've got a direct relationship with God.
I've got the scriptures and and and so I'm good to go.
And so finding that balance in there, I think, is really important. But I think you have to do it. I I think that otherwise you are setting yourself up
for failure. If your primary trust is in the church and not in God,
there's there is a uh there is a wrestle that we all must have. And that wrestle is with God. And we must wrestle and and
we must we have to have our own conviction, our own conversion. And and look, I I have always I was born into
this uh gospel. I've served a mission and loved it. I was in south southern Brazil, Portolegri, um
the happy port and I I absolutely loved my experience and I was and I fulfilled callings and it but I didn't have a in
my opinion and I have I'm sure I have more levels of conversion but I didn't feel like I had the the depth of conversion until 2016. Mhm.
I mean, that's only a decade ago. And I remember I I had to shut down one of my businesses and it was just oh, it was devastating to me because that was my
identity was as an entrepreneur. And oh my gosh. And so I started going to the temple every week. I just everybody says
it works miracles. It says that it it changes your life. And I hadn't had that experience yet. And so I started going
because one, I lived very close and I could go and um and so and and I had just shut down that business and I was
at home. I was able to be with the kids and family a lot more. Um and as I went,
I remember feeling peace. Um but there was no miraculous experience. And I I would go week after week after week after week. And it wasn't until the 50th
time, literally a year of going every week to where the windows of heaven were open for me. And it was such an
experience that I cannot deny the power of heaven that came and and distilled into my soul that it was as if God
needed me to show that I was willing to make that sacrifice. just a simple sacrifice of a couple hours a week of outside of normal Sunday worship that I
would go into the house of the Lord and that I would try to prove that I had that faith and I know he loves me whether I do bad things or good things.
He loves everyone.
But I felt like to me I was meant to go through that experience in order to receive the type of conviction that I
needed for my future. And what was fascinating is that as I as I gained a much deeper testimony of the of the
temple of one Jesus, but then of his house, his holy house,
um it wasn't that I should go to the temple anymore. It was that I needed I
needed that extra worship time. I needed to to feel and remember the covenants,
the two-way promise that I had made with God. I needed that every week of my life
because I felt what it was like without it. And when I felt the true depth that
I hadn't felt before, it changed my life forever. And I make a a promise to anyone who's out there that if you're
willing and you're listening here and you're saying, 'Look, I don't really love it. I haven't had this experience in the temple. I want you to try God. I
want you to in in a in a very respectful, humble way test God's promises.
And if you go with a sincere heart, with a repentant heart, knowing that he can speak to you, that he can inspire your
heart, that he can change the inner being who you are,
that you will find that as you give the time and the sacrifice that he's willing. Look, he doesn't need my house.
He doesn't need my money. He doesn't He doesn't need He needs me in my heart. He needs my whole soul. That's what he's asking of me. That's how I feel.
And uh I still pay tithing even though he doesn't need the money. But I know it's a commandment of God. And if I obey his commandments, then all blessings are
predicated upon obedience to Allah. And I hope that I can get to a point where I don't just obey a commandment because I
fear God. I fear the repercussions of God, the consequences.
I hope I get to the level, you know, the to me I see three levels. Fear is why we obey sometimes. I hope we can graduate
to obeying because of we know we'll receive blessings. And to me, tithing is I just know that I'll
receive blessings when I when I do tithing. I hope though that I get to the third level, which is that I obey
27 minutesbecause I just love God, that I love Jesus Christ, and that's why I obey. And
I'm not there yet. I I do a lot because I'm still afraid or because I know I'll get the blessings. And but I'm working I'm trying to work towards because it's
out of the love that I have for him that I want to obey. And um when I make mistakes,
I come to him and ask for forgiveness because I I need to feel his love again.
And to me, when the when the spirit of God doesn't rest in me because I made a choice that was not optimal,
I need that back in my life as quickly as possible. Um, look, I with eight kids and with multiple businesses and with making life choices,
I feel like I can't do that without his guidance.
And if I'm making choices that are contrary to his will, I won't have his guidance. And in a coming day, we won't be able to survive spiritually without the constant guidance of the Holy Ghost.
This is what we've been told. And I truly believe that angels, as the Doctrine of Covenants say, angels speak
by the power of the Holy Ghost. They speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the Holy Ghost, we can know the truth of all things. And I believe when I receive some of the downloads or words that come into my mind and my heart that
these are my beloved ancestors who love me, who can see me from the other side, who are right here in this room with me,
trying to help guide me, and they're speaking through the power of the Holy Ghost.
And I I know I'm probably on a little bit of a soap box right now, but man, I just feel I feel it in my heart that if if you're struggling and listening to
this where you've had where you've had feelings in your heart at one point, but maybe they've gone away,
let's do a self audit. Are we doing the simple things that God's asked us to do?
Are we reading? Are we studying? Not just reading. Are we studying the scriptures? His roo words and truth will
come and be answers to your prayers. Are you finding the depth of sincerity in your prayers where you're asking forgiveness on an everyday basis?
Because we all make mistakes.
We all have thoughts that could be better, that could be more optimal. Are we trying to find time to worship?
Right? Are we treating our others around us with kindness and with love? Are we able to forgive those who have hurt us the most?
Man, that's been so hard. That's a tough one.
That has been so hard for me. And um sorry, I'm an emo I'm emotional right now. I just
this piece of forgiveness is like to me like an onion. And an onion has many many layers.
And I look at this where I have it in my heart to be able to forgive.
But then it's only one layer and I get to another layer and I feel the pains,
maybe a trigger or something that alerts my body that I have more that I need healing from. And so I turn to the
savior and I try to put whatever that pain or hurt onto the altar, the altar of sacrifi. I know that he can take that pain from me.
And and even though as I've done this multiple times,
it to me is almost like just a little bit of a layer. And I know I know Christ can heal all wounds. He is the master
healer. And yet I know I'm probably thick skull enough that it's taking me multiple multiple times to get deeper
and deeper into the into the depth of my soul to where he can cleanse even the the darkest deepest things that are in me.
And uh oh man um you had mentioned we're going to talk about masculinity. So I'm just going to go for it. I feel like on
this vein um men and women who are listening, we all have divine masculine
and divine feminine within us. We were created it by a heavenly father and a heavenly mother. We have those pieces
within us. And I believe that we were created as men and as women completely on purpose and created even in the spiritual realms as a man or as a woman.
That there was never any question whether or not we were a man or a woman.
And I have behind me the proclamation of the family.
And I put it here on every podcast. I put it here on every, you know, Zoom video I have because this is this is where I find value.
But when we're talking about divine masculine, this is our example.
32 minutesJesus is the example of divine masculine.
He can be the type of man when the woman is caught in adultery, where he's drying in the dirt or the sand or wherever it
was, completely calm, while the people around him in circle with stones in their hand are yelling and cursing most
likely at this woman and at him. What are you going to do?
And he is calm. He's collected. He's grounded.
and he's able to respond in a way that that the entire group in my this is how
I envision it goes silent and walk away and then he doesn't he doesn't agree
with the sin but he and he tells her not to do it again
but he can see that she has so much more to her than what that one thing was. Yeah.
And sometimes I think as men um especially when we're in a romantic relationship and an extended romantic relationship in
a marriage especially one that you've been sealed and over time and decades sometimes when uh your spouse comes to
you full of emotion and some of that motion is targeted at you
that I know when we get defensive and when we react that that is not the divine masculine speaking,
but that if we are able to stay grounded,
stay grounded even when those attacks or whatnot are coming
that we may be able to respond in a grounded masculine way. And if we need to, you can set boundaries with what's appropriate or not. If you know,
let's say voices are raised. I've now learned that I can't control the other person, but I'm able to walk away and
say when we can have a discussion without raising our voices, I'm happy to have this discussion again. That's a
boundary that I'm able to set. And when that person is ready and if they're willing, then we can have that adult
discussion. But if I freak out and react because I get triggered, I have now stepped out of the masculine
and have formulated more into an emotional being at that state. And there was somebody that taught me,
I feel like uh the feminine is more like water. It's flowing and it's beautiful and can be calm like a pond or it can be
a raging thunderstorm and there can be waves crashing and it can be an extremely hard day.
But as men, as the masculine man we need to be, we need to be a bowl that is built and carved out of stone or out of
wood that is solid and secure. That that water has a place for that emotion.
Yeah. masculine containment.
A masculine containment. Exactly. And when we can contain not control, not not
uh you know be above that that's this is not what masculine is but to be able to contain and hold safe space for that
that that's when I would you know in that I can see is the true
feminine can find safety and when there's safety and security that's when connection vulnerability can can live.
And you know, I wish I wish I would have known these things 5 years ago, 10 years ago. I wish that I would have been
taught and I' this is a wrestle I've had with God. I I was frustrated when I started to learn some of these things about healing the inner wounds that we
have that of of combining the atonement of Jesus Christ with with the psychological components of you know
maybe I do have some things of my childhood or my past that I haven't healed from yet and and that's creating
a a more of a triggered response. And when we can find a way to heal deeply
inside and know that are we prone to more of an anxious attachment or more of an avoidant attachment,
how can we get to become more of a securely attached individual?
I I think that something that's really important with this and and and is you know there's marriage is such a laboratory of of life, right? It is such a laboratory.
Family as a whole is a laboratory. We we step into these laboratories unready not really understanding what is but
that's the process. That's the only way it works. Nobody knows. You you you get married and and you have zero experience at it, you know, or you or you have
kids. You've never had kids before. You zero experience, right? It's nice to have others that have gone through this,
parents and others, etc. if you'll listen to them. But uh uh it it's it's a process of growth where we have to step
in with faith. It's just there's just no other way around that. Um but one thing
that that you're describing here is the only thing the the reason I think sometimes we have issues in with with
marital issues is because it's so easy to blame the other person. Yeah.
Right. It's it's so easy to blame the per the other person. And here's the thing, you might be right. You might not, but you might be right, but you have zero control over that.
Yeah. How many fingers are pointing back at you, right?
Yeah. You You don't have any control over that. So, the question then becomes, well, what do you have control over? And what you have control over is yourself.
Yeah.
And so, what can I do? What can I change? And maybe there's nothing I I you know it's possible you may have a a we all have things we can change.
Yeah. But we but but I'm saying that there there might be not anything that that that is going to help in certain circumstances. That's true. But still
moving from look what she did or look what he did or or he's like this or she's like this
to I can only control myself. I I think is a major shift in a paradigm.
uh move that allows you to say, "I don't have control over this person." Yeah.
And my relationship and my communication with him or her has got to be based on what I can control. That's all I can do.
Now, can I influence? Yes. Can I persuade? Yes. But but it's still focused on what what can you do? And it
always is. And and we live in a world where I think I have this this concept called taos versus the oppressors, but
it's it's whenever we look at, hey, this is the problem over here or they're the problem or that group's the problem or
he or she is the problem and we live that way primarily and our focus is on that. It takes away
from the entire gospel that we believe in and the world view that we have that is no I this is about who I am becoming.
How do I become? What do I need to change? How do I repent? How do I focus on on being a better person? Right. And
and so that conflict is is always in place. I liked your my uh my listeners will have a little would have had a
little bit of a grin when you talked about the onion. I talk about the onion all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Shrek Shrek has an onion,
right? He talks about, you know, uh ogres are like an onion. So peel one back and but anyway it's
I I I think that we need to in that masculine energy focus on something that has a duality.
It can't be one-sided and and and the way I like to describe it is as a servant king. You do need to lead.
You do need to lead. I I believe that that is part of the family proclamation.
I I think that that is your responsibility if you pay attention to the initiate initiatories.
It's not the same as the women and there's a reason for that and and so you are to lead but leading doesn't mean
dominating. Leading means taking on the responsibility of a wife and children and the world around you.
Yeah.
And and and it's it's it's it's encapsulated in in King Benjamin's speech. which is a coronation speech for
his son. And uh so anyway, I I think you're right. I think it's uh you got to be able to focus on on on what you can control.
100%. And then I if you think about relationships as a way that uh it's part of God's plan. Men are and women are not
meant to be alone. and and to be able to have that uh equal partner um that you're working towards the the same
goals um is the ideal scenario right um that as part of God's plan to perfect us
and to help us to create salvation as an individual you know Don jokes individual and
exaltation is a familial you know experience um that we are going to be tested
to our absolute core within that marital relationship typically. And I believe now that that is absolutely part of
God's plan, that that there are going to be insecurities, weaknesses of ours that
will be pointed out, that will be touched upon, uh that you'll have wounds that are open, nerves showing, and that
42 minutesthat person will be touching those things because as we some people call it being triggered or whatnot, if you're
triggered, to me, all it is is a a sign that there's something that you need to work on. So if you can recognize when
your chest starts to tighten and your you know fightlight freeze fawn mode kicks in that you look back and say okay
why did that happen? what what was being said or done or what what was creating that experience and then what does that
mean I need to heal within me because as we look at these now now please be by all means any type of abusive relationship or things like that's a
completely different ballgame I I I need to put that caveat on here because um I know that's different but but in these
relationships where where you're being tested and tried um with each other in in unique ways where
That may be part of God's plan for you to be have to go through a broken heart and a contrite spirit to be able to hear
his words deeper and have a deeper conviction of faith. You may have to trust wholly in him. I think that's the
only way every human has to go through what I would, you know, what we call maybe Abrahamic trials.
We have to that's part of our mission on this earth is that we must go through these types of experiences in order to
become the type of person we are meant to become. And that may mean a death in the family. It may mean sickness. It may mean health. It may mean relationship struggles. It may mean financial
struggles or work. It may mean mental struggles or physs
we can become. And I know we've been promised that we'll never be given more than we can handle. Even when it feels
like we can't handle it. Even when it feels like we're completely left alone and that we don't feel like there's any,
you know, glory glorious light coming down from heaven and we're in the complete utter abyss that his the Savior's arm is
outstretched and that it is our job to reach out. And you know, I think of Joseph when he's in the sacred grove and he's being consumed by this evil,
horrible, hellish darkness, this power that was binding his tongue.
And these this type of an experience where he called out, he had to find the muster up the power and God will must
give us the ability to muster up that power to get through any of the challenges we face on this earth. um
because he knows we can. And um that type of a mentality has helped me a ton to get through the trials and
challenges. Um and and I know I'll have more in the future. Even though I feel like I've had Abrahamic trials, I know
I'll have more. And it's almost like an opportunity for us to level up in our conviction, to level up and double
double down, if you will, in our testimony and faith in Jesus. And it's that Jacob's ladder of knowing that we
have this progression that we have to make and opposition in all things will come. And so if you go through something
hellish, then you better believe it. If you can make it through with his light that there will be an amazing thing on
the other side of that. or if you just had an amazing thing happen, you better be prepared because something's around the corner because we must have those types of tests.
Yeah. Well, I've had those too and and I appreciate them now. I I don't know if I appreciated at the time, but I appreciate them now looking back because
they changed me in a in a very big way and and of course they they create a greater relationship with God. Back to
the masculinity. Uh so today in the c our culture it it's um you you have and
the stats show all of this you know men are struggling a lot more than they've ever struggled before. I think that they have lost identity. I think that they
have lost purpose. Part of that I think is the fault of culture. Part of it is distraction advice uh that is so easily accessible today.
Um, but there is also a sense of to some degree with some of these men,
there's a sense of victimhood. No, I this is what culture has made me.
This is who I've become because of culture. And and and therefore, again,
the problem is out there. and and and and you see this a lot in in how there is a behavior of people that begin to
gravitate toward an Andrew Tate or a Nick Fuentes or or these types of figures and and it's it it does turn
into a different types of of of masculinity which is again pointing finger fingers at others instead of actually strengthening yourself.
Yeah. at that point. Do you see the same thing? And and what is the best way for someone who is struggling
to find a divine or gospel- centered masculinity and begin to implement it?
Yeah. Well, let's start with how if you're struggling, how to to overcome those struggles, right? And then let's
talk about the the examples of the world, you know, creating masculine figure. Um, this is gonna sound so lame
to everyone here, I'm sure, because the same answers you received in the primary program when you were a little kid,
study your scriptures, go to the temple,
go to church, fulfill your callings, you know, uh, fasts and do fast offerings,
treat others with kind. Like these small and simple things are where great things can come to pass. And if you're dealing with the absolute depth of struggles,
whether it's an addiction or whether it's uh anger or it's a uh whatever the vice is, distraction,
um these are the things that you start with. If you're not doing these simple and small things, you must start here.
And so when you're pleading with God on your knees in full sincerity of prayer and you're telling him everything that's going on,
he already knows. But it's our job to tell him all that's going on. This is where the heart can start to change. I
mean, this is all taught in the scriptures. Our hearts can be changed.
So, if you have a heart that's full of an addiction or distraction and every day you're faced with this thing that's creating problems in your
relationship or in your physical health or in your mental health,
this can be changed. Jesus is the master healer and it is through his atonement.
Now, for me, I needed both the spiritual atonement and the psychological understanding
for me to have the depth of healing. So do do you need practicality? I need practicality. That's I've got to pull from that to one way or another. I can%
I can live off that spiritual experience, but I need I need to see that in a practical way also.
So the practicality for me, how it came was getting to know myself and my own struggles and wounds. And so
there's a couple uh there's a book that I would highly recommend called Attached. Attached is all about attachment styles and it will help you
to this is non-religious um it'll help you to understand are you more of an anxious attachment person avoidant and
how can we get to be more secure now I believe somebody who is absolutely rock solid in their faith and their foundation in Jesus will have a more
50 minutessecure relationship but because of our upbringing and experiences of the past even if you weren't fully big T
traumatized but maybe little traumas that have created some of these these wounds that haven't be healed. So a book
something like called attached. There's another one called how to do the work.
Now they call it the work because you're going inward and it sucks because you have to look at yourself in a way that
is ugly. You have to see the parts about you that are not pretty and then you have to address them and act upon them.
Now in this process I started uh you know working with Christ centered breath work and I know that may sound woowoo
for some but when I went through these types of processes and I was openly praising God during the process
in a prayer like setting I received download after download six pages in my journal as soon as I was
done with that type of breath work. It was something I'd never experienced before. It was Christc centered and it was focused on him as the healer and I
wasn't looking for outside sources of healing because he is my healer. But I needed for me I needed to experience something different than what I was used
to because I couldn't find the depth of healing on my own with just the scripture stuff that we talked about. So
I and others might be able to. I just I needed to understand my own psychology
and maybe some of the reasons of why I did what I did or thought the way I thought or and that's where some of these these books like attached or how
to do the work and even one that's how to become the love you seek. Um and then there's masculine books that are not religious in any way and you have to take them with a grain of salt because they're definitely not Christ focused.
Um but the masculine in relationship is a book that I I would recommend. Now,
there are portions of that that I don't agree with, but if you read it with a a Christ-c centered lens, then you can filter out the things you don't need.
Um, and another one is this, the way of the superior man. Now, some people who are listening may think I'm a horrible person for recommended these books, but
I needed the understanding as a man from that perspective, and then I filtered out the the ver the parts that obviously
don't go along with my lifestyle choices and and obeying the commandments of God.
Um, but there was enough that taught me uh to see the world in a different way and have compassion for others because I
can now see through some of the things that they've been dealing with. Um, and it gives me more empathy and compassion for others. So anyway, that was a lot of
of books and resources, but from a how you get over these struggles, these are these baby step processes that I think
can really help men's groups. I would highly recommend um it's the one of the reasons why I want uh to start the fatherhoodmovement.com.
53 minutesUm and I know Greg, you've got a men's group that people can come and meet with you and and these men's groups are needed in my opinion. Um we need to have a brotherhood. We need to have a place,
a safe place to express some of those those deepest emotions and and some of the things that are going through our hearts that um that only men can kind of
help with in that regard. Um and in the priesthood, that's something that I would hope would happen more, but I know that level of intimacy and vulnerability
is not currently in most um in most quorums, right? Um, and then if we were
to step so so those step-by-step pieces and then now we look at the examples of the world, the entertains of the world.
I think the reason why they're gaining so much traction is because they are speaking some level of truth and people
can feel truth and so when truth is spoken they can feel some of it. Now I'm say some of it because there's a bunch that's twisted.
Well, it's but but what you're exactly right. think but the the the reason they notice the truth is because they are not getting it anywhere else.
Yeah.
Right. It's like wait a minute you are speaking something that I'm not hearing out there. In fact, I'm hearing the exact opposite. Yeah.
And so there there's a recognition and awareness of this. It's like oh I I don't hear this anywhere over here.
Well I you know look I think our generations um have been taught to be people pleasers, nice guys. And look, if
if if we think about the difference between what a nice guy is and a kind man,
I look at those as two very different things. A people pleaser usually does it out of his own self-interest or for fear of what people will think of him or or or or a mask to avoid conflict.
Absolutely. Absolutely. A kind man should still be you would still say to the person that is a kind person or that
is a nice person but he will stand up for truth even when it's uncomfortable. He'll stand up for what matters.
And to me I teach my kids we are warriors for Christ. We are in a battle a spiritual battle every day. And we
must stand for truth. It is now that we must stand for truth. And so there was I I'm a recovering people pleaser. I hate
to admit that, you know, but I'm a I I have gone the majority of my life as someone who was trying to hide from
conflict or someone who was trying to want people to like me. And it's as I as
I'm recognizing and trying to heal these inner parts of me that came from my childhood. I'm the youngest kid. I wanted everybody to love me. I wanted to
be, you know, a part of everything and everyone. And now it's, you know, one of the reasons I share my faith online is
not everybody loves that. It doesn't necessarily get me more followers or anything like that. Every time I talk about Jesus, I lose people all the time,
but I know that that's what I believe in. That's what I stand for. And I and I I have to I feel compelled to try and
speak what what I I feel like has been given to me. And um so when we look at these examples out that are out in the
world that may be filled with toxic masculinity,
I I want to bring it back to Jesus as the ultimate divine masculine. It doesn't have anything to do about you
know guns and mustaches and tattoos or beards or cigars or money. That is not masculinity.
Masculinity is like we you are the safe container.
You are standing for something. You are leading because you know who you are and you
stand for that truth and you protect those who can't do it for themselves.
your family, your spouse, your children.
And and uh this is to me where this divine masculine comes into play. That is can be lifechanging when we step into this truth.
Now, when they twist the truth and and it's about supercars and it's about the vacations and it's about the women and
it's about the Yeah. And now I look, I'm a big believer in staying healthy and strong. That's
part of being a warrior. But do I need to be a bodybuilder? No, I don't. No, no shame on bodybuilding, for example. But but I don't need to be a bodybuilder.
But I can be strong and I can be healthy and I can take care of my body because I know that's what God wants us to do as as we we have this temple he's given us.
But that is not masculinity in and of itself.
But should we be strong as men physically? Should we be strong mentally, emotionally? Absolutely.
Because he needs us to be.
And when I say he, that is God. He needs us to be that strong individual to be able to to withstand what's coming.
What now? You've got eight kids. Yeah. So, I'm the oldest of seven. Oh, I love it.
Uh you've had a little bit of experience as a father.
Talk talk about that a little bit. I I I saw a post that you put up where you said the three things I want to make sure my kids know is first that you
trust in God and that they need to trust in God. Second, that they recognize accountability, right? They're going to take responsibility for choices.
And third, that you are fun and positive. Talk about that a little bit. I love being a dad. You know what it is?
H it is such a blessing to be a father and to have these eight kids. And uh you know when I got married I didn't realize
we were going to have eight kids. Um that was not my plan. Um uh but as we continued to feel inspired
that there was more waiting for us um it felt right. And you know a blessing for any of for anyone who's debating on whether or not to have another child.
Um, this may not work for everyone, but we were financially blessed even when we had these children. And it was as if he
he lifted us up to be able to carry the burden. Um, because people tell me all the time like, "Baba, how how can you even afford that? Eight kids, that's
insane." And, and it is. It is. In today's standard, it's crazy. Um, I
wouldn't have it any other way. And so being a father, I want them to know that
I trust in God because I need them. It's my duty as their father to teach the principles of the gospel. And if I
don't, I'll be judged for that. I'll be punished for that if I don't do my duty.
And I want them to gain that faith and testimony on their own and not to live it vicariously through me. So I try to help them have their own unique
experiences so that they can stand on their own two feet and fight their own phys uh spiritual battles that they will have to do. When I talk about accountability,
you know, I'm guilty of being defensive and taking things personally. And when when you get defensive and you take
things personally, sometimes you don't take accountability because you're trying to point blame or you're trying to look for excuses.
And so what I want is to be able to teach these young souls that when we do do something that wasn't exactly right,
that we need to face that fact. And that is our job to step in. No matter how painful it is, how embarrassing,
how humiliating it is, if I have done something, I need to step in and be held accountable. That is my duty. Um
with with the kids, you're talking about in your fathering. Yeah. Not only as a father, but as a child,
as a businessman, as a spouse,
we must step into accountability because that's integrity. And integrity is part of being honest.
And being honest is part of the commandments of God. Now, I believe accountability is not just for men. This
is a this is a human job is to step into that accountability.
We must hold ourselves accountable for the choices that we make. And and as men, we need to lead and show the
example. And when we come back and apologize to your your child, for example, I've raised my voice before.
I'm assuming that that may be something others have done. I've raised my voice before with my children. And when I felt
2 minuteslike that was inappropriate and that I needed to like that that is when I would come and I would apologize
and I'd in a quieter moment I'd put my arm around that child and I would apologize and say that's not what I want
to do. That's not who I want to be and I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?
And as I hope to show that example of of when I make a mistake that I try and make it right, that they'll follow suit
and that they'll see that that's something that they need to do when they make a mistake as well. And um but it goes across all elements of your life.
It's not just as a in the home as a parent. Um and then talking about being a fun, you know, uh father, an active one.
Um, you know, my grandfather, I have to share this experience.
Uh, my grandfather and I, Grandpa Beck is his name. Shirley Beckstead, his age
gap between me and him was the same between he and his father.
They had a bunch of kids and he was the youngest. And his father was kind of grouchy and kind of not the nicest to
him is how he portrayed it. And when he wanted to go play basketball or whatever, the dad was get back to work
kind of a thing, right? And it was only when I was a child did he start to realize that he's tired. His body hurts. He was,
you know, had all these things. And when I wanted, as the grandchild, I just wanted to go play and run and do and swing and all the things. He was exhausted.
And he then realized that that was his father. H that his father was his age when he was
grandfathering me and it gave him a new perspective and it gave him a new a new level of empathy for his father that he didn't have
growing up and I just recognized that I didn't want that in my I wanted my children to know that be and another
reason why I try to stay healthy and stay strong is because I want to go do adventures with them. I want to play the sport. I want to wrestle with them. I
want to be able to have these moments that they know that I'm not the one that's just sitting on my phone scrolling.
Or at the pool, I'm not just getting a tan, that I'm going to jump in with them. Or at the beach, I am going to go
get wet and jump in and have fun. Or on the bike ride, I'm the one leading the charge and taking the kids out on camping trips or going out and fishing,
whatever it is.
I want them to have those moments because that's what I want them to do when they're fathers because there's so many life life principles that can be
taught in all of those moments and memories that can happen. And I literally just posted yesterday.
My son's playing volleyball at his high school team and that's I grew up playing volleyball in Northern California and I love it. It's one of my favorite
hobbies. And I, you know, he was he was doing a great job and playing in the game and then he was he was he was rotating out and um and I was able to go
kneel down behind his chair and just say some words of encouragement and how proud I am of how hard he's been working. He's been
excelling and doing phenomenally well for the amount of time he's been doing it. And um he probably won't remember
that moment. Um, but I was lucky enough to have a friend in the stands who took a picture for me with his phone as he
saw me kneeling down with my arm around my son.
Um, but I hope he remembers at least some of the feelings of his dad being proud of him. He may not remember that
moment uh of the many many games and performances he's done and all my kids,
but I sure hope that he knows how much I love him and that my children know how much I love them and how much I care for them. Anyway,
also one thing I have to share while I'm on while while I'm on a soap box here,
being a masculine man does not mean you don't cry.
Ah, okay. I gotcha. Because honestly, I was raised uh you know, my dad um is
more of an emotional creature, but I remember trying to hold back all the tears and trying to be the the man and
you know, get back up and just keep going.
And I've learned um that I am going to now allow these emotions to come because I don't want to shove them down anymore. Mhm.
And I want to allow them to come and get to the surface because that expression of emotion in a healthy positive way is
something that a a masculine man can do and uh and that that can be respected.
So great Bubba. On that note, we appreciate your time. Really really enjoyed this
conversation. You've got a lot to bring to this conversation. And where do people find you? They want to learn more from you. Yeah. So, I'm I'm active on Instagram.
It's just Bubba Page. I'm very active also on LinkedIn because of my career as an entrepreneur and investor. So, you can find me, connect with me there. Um,
if you're looking to find any of my websites, so you can go to bubbage.com and it will list out. So, I run the
businessbootcamp.com. I coach beginner entrepreneurs from zero to to one million. the businessbootcamp.com.
There's a framework and there's education and there's uh you know a group that people can get involved with as an entrepreneur. I run influence.vc
which is an investment group and we make strategic investments in a consumer product consumer tech companies. Um and
8 minutesuh and then also fatherhood.com is coming soon. It would be great to collaborate with your men's group as well um as we as we try to bring in
Christ centered um you know men's group bi-weekly calls you know retreats fatherhood retreats of father son daddy
daughter um and uh and all those things together I am writing a book and I'm getting a little further ahead it's the
father operating system ah and it's one of those that I hope is a resource and a guide um coming from a
man a dad with eight kids and running multiple businesses and I've tried to create a system that everybody can kind of plug into and customize for
themselves. Um, and uh that it brings that it brings the the the correct what I hope to be the most important
fundamentals and principles um as a father into your family as you lead and uh and do your best as a divine masculine man.
Great. Awesome. Well, appreciate your message of Christ centered masculinity.
Uh it's it's so needed today. I think it's there's a little bit of a void there. And as much as we can talk about this, I think we need to get this out so
that people are there needs to be direction. Number one, there needs to be an awareness that there is a void both for men and women that there is a void
for men right now and they're struggling and that they don't have to, you know, it's not a matter of just the economy.
It's not just a matter even though that's difficult. It's not a matter of you know there there you don't have to be struggling if you can find enough
identity and purpose I think in your life. So really appreciate your message and uh maybe we'll get you back. We'd love to.
I love it. Thanks for having me Greg.