The LDS Church Just Changed Bible Study Forever

Jeff McCullough and Greg Matsen: LDS Members Are About to Read Scripture Very DifferENTLY Can Scripture Be Trusted Across Translations? Jeff McCullough and Greg Matsen tackle the biggest questions. Could the Book of Mormon Ever Be Modernized? What Happens When Latter-day Saints Read Other Bibles?

 Raw Transcript:

So, which version of the Bible is the best one for you to use? The best one for you to study from. Complemented, of course, by the King James version with a
new, what do we call it? Permission, open book, so to speak, on using different Bible versions and translations.
Let's be honest, most Latter-day Saints have never opened up another translation of the Bible. So, I brought on my good
friend, Pastor Jeff Mcola, who has studied numerous different translations of the Bible to talk to us about his experience with them, what he likes,
what he doesn't like, and how we might use them. Why will it make a difference in our scripture study? Which version
should you use? This episode is brought to you by Wavemakers Latterday Saint podcaster cruise coming November 14th
through 21st of 2026. This is an opportunity to bring the online community together. We just did this last November. It was fabulous. A lot of
energy, enriching fun. We'll have Jacob Hansen of thoughtful faith there. Hayden and Jackson Paul from The Stick of
Joseph, Andrea Woodmancy, Jonah Barnes, Hannah Stoddard, Aranai, Cardinalis of Ward Radio, and more. Come join us at
wavemakers 2026. It's just a great experience. Go to quickmedia.com up at the top to trips and events and scroll
down to wavemakers 26 and we'll see you there. Here we go with Pastor Jeff.
Welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. On this episode, we bring back my good friend, Pastor Jeff McCulla. Jeff, welcome back to the show.
Hey, Greg. Thanks for having me. All right. So, we're going to talk about something that is brand new to Latter-day Saints for mo the most part.
Not everybody, but I would say that over 90, maybe 95, maybe 99% of Latter-day Saints who have at least
have been lifelong Latter-day Saints have not ever even broken open a book of scripture that or of the Bible that was not the King James version.
So, this is something brand new to a very broad spectrum of of Latter-day Saints. Um, I'm guessing that a number
of people after the announcement of this giving us a little bit more uh leeway on on studying and referencing
other versions of the Bible. Um, they've probably gone into this and looked at this. I want to get a little bit more
insight from someone who has already done this for quite some time and just give us well let me start off
with this. What was your reaction to this being announced by the church?
Yeah, I mean, as someone who um grew up in a Protestant evangelical paradigm who were passionate about the scriptures, I mean, as far back as I can remember, not
only are the the scriptures being presented on a weekly basis by our pastors, but we're in Bible studies. Um,
and it it's just it's our rallying point for anything and everything. So that being kind of hardwired into my DNA and
and then you uh to the extent that I'm I've got a master's degree in biblical studies like I went to to school to um
to make that central to my focus and my calling and then to have this familiarity with the Latter- Day Saint paradigm and how there are distinctions and how we regard
scripture and some of the push back that I've gotten from both Latter- Day Saints and evangelicals in that you know no
man's land between our faith paradigms of like, well, we just we view scriptures differently. We have different considerations for what is considered inspired and not. You know,
there's all these barriers that seem to be present uh specifically around scripture, even when it comes to a
Latter Day Saint evangelical relationship.
Mhm. This was the first move that I've seen made and it was on the the part of the LDS church to say we we're we're
going to expand, you know, the our recommendation on different Bible translations and that moves that moves
us not only closer to um one another because there's going to be not complete overlap but a closer
proximity to how we're regarding some of the scriptures. It it kind of puts to bed some of the the things you hear people say that like
well Latterday Saints don't believe the Bible's trustworthy. They don't read the Bible. Um they they believe that anything other than the King James or
the Joseph Smith translation is, you know, part of this abominable, you know, weward creedle path.
Now we're saying no, we can we can look at the different translations. So, not only does it put us closer in proximity to one another, which made me really
happy and excited, but ultimately anything that's going to increase Bible
proficiency in any group of people or in any individual to have a greater clarity on
the truth of God's word. That is always a good thing. The Lord is calling us to truth. So, I was elated. It it
um it was really exciting. It was an exciting announcement for me to hear for sure.
So, hearing it, I mean, you you brought up a couple of points here. One, that maybe this will bring us closer and I'm guessing you're saying at least in
communication, a closer communication and and talking back and forth on what the Bible is, a belief that
Latter- Day Saints actually do study the Bible, maybe. What What else is there that that would excite you about opening this up? Are Let me give you that. Let
me ask you this. Would you refer more to other versions of the Bible with Latter-day Saints
now that you'll have Latter- Day Saints probably studying from different versions of the Bible?
Well, whenever I launched the channel, I had a lot of people both on the Protestant side who were familiar with Latter- Day Saint thinking and also Latter-day Saints saying, "If you
reference any scriptures on Hello Saints, you have to do it in New King James. If you do in any other translation, you're losing credibility." Mhm.
So that's and that's true.
Well, it was, but not anymore. So, um I would still do it anyway if I needed to, mainly because I I want to be
I want to be sensitive to the language that is spoken by the individuals I'm interacting with, but I also need to feel comfortable in the language I'm speaking. And I'm comfortable speaking
in a biblical language that um references and finds value in the different translations. So yeah, I
whereas before I was a little bit more hesitant, but I would still reference other translations, now I feel like the chains are off. I can just I can
reference any of these trans, especially the ones that were were um adjusted in the handbook. Um I'm going to feel free
and ready to be like, hey, this is what the ESV says compared to the NLT and the King James. Let's let's glean what we
can from these different different lenses. So, give me an idea going back as you're going through
uh your theological studies, what versions are you using? Are you using pulling from several different versions when you're doing this, or are
you in one specific version to keep things consistent in your study?
Um, well, there's a few things with that. uh one it's recognizing that uh Bible translations
are on a spectrum based on the the method not just a method but even the the goal of the translation. Um the
spectrum on one end is what you would call a formal equivalent translation.
The other one would be more of a dynamic um equivalent. So what that means is there are certain Bible translations and of course they're speaking in English
translations that when we say there are formal equivalents there's a lot more um effort on the translators parts to um
get as close to a word for word translation as possible. Now, we know that that can that's very difficult when you're when you're going from one
language to the next because there's almost there are no two languages that are one to one, right? Like even in Spanish, which I got a D minus in in high school, but I still got I passed,
so I was good. I I didn't walk away enough knowing that adjectives are in a different order than you would speak in
English. So, you're not going to be able to get a full word for word in any language, but can we get as close as possible? Um,
so different translations that have a more word for word or formal equivalent approach by the translators are going to
be the New American Standard Bible. Um, the ESV is kind of in that realm. I think King James would be considered
more in that that formal equivalent. But on the other end of the spectrum, you're going to have the dynamic equivalents. And these
are translations that will they're not quite as fixated on like we have to get every single word as close as possible.
We need to make sure the ideas are being translated accurately. We still want to be true to the language, but we might go a little bit further for the sake of a
modern ear really understanding the ideas that are being conveyed that some interpretive decisions are made. Now, that's an issue though because as an
example, let's say that you are if you're saying you wanted to be to the
ear of a modern English speaker and yet you're taking a individuals that are Aramaic,
Hebrewspeaking through a Greek filter and a an ancient culture
where the words even though you're if you're if you're you're you're bring I mean for One example would be one, right?
If I'm taking the word one as in God is one, right? Or whatever it might
be, and I'm translating it and and putting it through, am I capturing that word or any other word in the same sense
and idea of what the ancient culture understood? Sure.
And and pulling that through. Now, if I'm looking at something that's more of a literalist trans translation, then I don't care, right? I I'm looking
at what is the word and and I'm going to move this over here, but is it the same meaning as what we would use today?
And I will say that great great care, great care and accountability is in place um so that the fidelity of the
meaning matches other translations. Now where your concern is valid and I didn't name some of the more dynamic equivalents like the NIV or um the NLT.
So in New International Version or the New Living Translation, which are both versions that the church has said are appropriate.
Um we you if you compare those versions, you can see the responsibility, you can
see the accountability that exists when you compare even an NASB or an ESV with an NLT because they do match. Now, some
of the areas where they might change some of the language, for example, like when you're talking about masculine words, like talking about that all men would be safe, right?
But they might change it so that everyone would be saved, right?
Things like that. Um or we could even see why this is necessary when we do look at a um a King James
translation of the Bible or even King James speech. Let's just So, one of the interesting things to do is to recognize that the King James Bible was translated while Shakespeare was writing his plays.
Mhm.
So let's just look at the language of the day. Let's move away from the the New King James and go to Shakespeare.
He worded things in ways that would have made complete sense to people sitting in the Globe in the early 1600s who were
watching one of his plays. But words have changed meanings even how they use like the word lot. It means something very different than it did right now.
There's different qualifying factors to how language evolves. So those things are taken into consideration in these dynamic equivalents so that where it
might have made complete sense to the original audience, the original time, we're going to have to tweak it a little bit so that it it reads more naturally
to a modern audience. Are there risks involved in that? Sure. But there will always be risks in Bible translation.
Period. The question is, are we protecting the method? Is there uh oversight, accountability, pure
review? to make sure that we're staying true to as close as possible the source material that we're getting these
translations from. So, um I don't know if I remember your original question, but I think the the the point I was getting at is for I think it was you're
asking what do I prefer to use uh as I'm studying and some of those things. I use all of them because they all bring together um
clarity by sort of compositing them over one another. Um, now that said, when I'm
studying for like um a sermon or, you know, studying for a paper when I was in grad school, I would use more of the formal equivalent. So, I would use an
13 minutesNASV or an ESV, English Standard Version. Uh, New Revised Standard is also a little bit more of that formal.
Um, when I'm doing my own personal devotions and Bible study, I will use the New Living Translation because it
reads just so much more naturally how I talk. When I preach, I typically will use the NIV.
Um, interesting.
So, it depends on the context, but would would a congregation expect a certain trend? I mean, do they expect the NIV in preaching?
Not necessarily. No.
I mean, do you feel that? Okay. Well, because I mean to some degree I would say this about anybody who who studies
the Bible and any denomination, but it's like, well, no one's going to care what
they might not even read it to some degree, right? They may have not even read this. It doesn't matter what version I put up.
No one's going to care. Or are there are there versions that are used primarily by specific denominations?
Not necessarily. Um, I mean, I'm sure that there are I mean, there are definitely groups out there like the King James only group, which is a really
small fragment of of Protestants that would say, and their reasoning doesn't hold up in my opinion, that it's the the
closest thing to what God has revealed as possible. And there's a lot of reasons why there's a problem with that line of thinking. But beyond that, I mean, maybe by reputation, there are
certain um translations that are used by certain groups. So for example, Presbyterians
and uh people that are really extremely reformed in their views like John MacArthur or John Piper are known to be
really passionate about the NASB and the ESV versions of the Bible. That doesn't mean that they don't equally honor,
which they would the NIV, NLT, and NRSV and all the other ones. But you might in a like Baptist or sinners of God,
they're going to be using NIV or NLT. in a non-denominational church probably more NLT or there's one now I think it's called the um Christian
uh the gospel I can't remember what it's called it's a newer translation um my friend Kyle Bashers who's a pastor that
is involved in Latter Day Saints Face he prefers that one um so yeah um just because of how it reads again
language is you is is really important to how we not only function but think and relate to one another and one of the
greatest barriers that exist on planet Earth going back to the Tower of Babel or going to whenever I'm in you know Chinatown in New York City can be one of
the the the greatest ways we feel that division or barriers to relating to one another to knowing one another to understanding certain things and um that
becomes really important when we're talking about truth and what God has revealed. So it it's really important when you're preaching to a large group
of people that you there's not a distraction of words that actually don't mean or
don't capture how we currently think. It doesn't make it a less true version. It
doesn't make it a even less valuable version. But just I'll give you an example right here. One of my favorite passages of scripture is in Hebrews 12:1
where in like an NIV um standard, I'm sorry, NIV version of that passage, it reads the way I grew up hearing it.
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles us and
let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Okay. Now, listen to how that's worded in the King James because that was pretty straightforward.
That's that's very much how we would speak and you want to do much explaining there. But in the King James, it says, "Wherefore seen we also compassed about
with so great a cloud of witnesses." I'm already squinting. Yeah, I'm already I need to focus.
Right. Let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us.
and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
So, as I'm preaching, if I'm having to explain the English, that's an extra step of me having to
explain the meaning and the original ideas that are coming out of this passage.
Whereas, while some people, like I said, will will preach out of the New Living Translation, if we pull this one up, this one is going to be even more clear.
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially
the sin that so easily trips us up and let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. That's how we would
talk in 2025, right? So functionally it starts to make sense like when you are preaching to a large
group of people we want to speak as plainly as we can as to not distract from the scriptural points that we're
wanting to make if that makes sense. So speak again a little more to I think if people have hesitation on this and they're naturally going to although I
will say that I do think for the most part you're going to have with gusto members going out and giving
Sunday school lessons and come follow me podcasts and everything with other versions right I think that'll happen well it is
happening already and so I think that's the case but what about somebody who's hesitant why why would they not need to be hesitate hesitant. Why would they? I mean,
because you can imagine, okay, you've got a a 70-year-old couple that's gone to church their entire lives and they've
heard one thing in one way, you know, one specific verse and it might be near and dear to their heart,
right? And then all of a sudden, they're going to start hearing this in different words.
19 minutesOkay? Am I talking to a Protestant or a Latter- Day Saint? A Latter- Day Saint.
Okay? cuz I would answer that question different whether I'm talking to a Protestant or a Latter Day Saint or maybe I would put the focus on something different to Latter- Day Saint like it's it's pretty easy.
Mhm.
Your church leadership has very clearly vetted the considerations surrounding the different translations and are telling you that you can trust it.
Mhm.
That's what I would say to a Larry saying. Okay. Now, if we want to go a little bit further into critical thinking, and this gets into what I would say about Protestant, we have we
have thousands of years at this point, uh, we have centuries of responsible scholars who have painstakingly not only
preserved but been very intentional about protecting the fidelity of the word of God. Whether
we're talking about the Maseretic text, the Dead Sea Scrolls, you know, Codexus or Vaticus, like we have all of these different schools of manuscripts of the
Old and the New Testaments that they acknowledge the different variants. They name the variants. They um
nobody's hiding the ball with the major English translations that we have. And this is going to get in more of what I would say to a Protestant. There are no
major doctrines that are determined by different Bible translations.
There might be different wordings that you might have an opinion as to why a a formal equivalent makes more sense
than a dynamic equivalent. And that's okay. Like we can we can have a range of of what we're comfortable with there.
But when it comes to the trustworthiness, keeping in mind that these translations are not inspired. The word of God is inspired. These translations are a witness to the word
of God. And I know that's going to get into some secondary questions that people are going to have like, well, how can we trust that these are true to the original autographs and some of those other things? Those are valid questions.
But when it comes to just the overall trustworthiness of the different translations, me having a discomfort sitting at my
kitchen table doing my devotions matched up against thousands upon
thousands of educated scholars who want to protect the integrity of God's word
and have gone through very textual, scientific, historical um means to make sure that's taking
place. We can comfortably trust that these other translations aren't going to lead us astray. That that's what I would say.
Okay. Yeah. What is your favorite version?
Um I mean, let me tell you what I've always liked, right? I've always gone the NIV. Mhm.
I've looked at a few different ones and and and I'll go to them sometimes and I almost always use one or two or
sometimes three, but in in whenever I'm studying a topic or or anything else, right? I don't want to go to these other versions and go through them. Um
the church, interestingly, they actually went through and said, "This version would be great for young teenagers
and this would be and I look at this and I really like the NIV and and the NIV was the one for the young teenagers. So, I think, okay, I think I know where my
mindset is, you know, in terms of of scripture, but uh that that's just one I've always liked. It's just very easy to read.
Well, um I'm going to sound like I'm dissing you, but I'm not. Um I I'll tell you why. The NIV was translated so that
it could be read by people with a sixth grade education and Mhm.
Okay. So that was taken into consideration and that's something we haven't really talked about. Educational the context of an educa educated people
factors into what's translated. So when you get in translating Bibles into other languages, the translators are going to factor in the median education level of your everyday reader.
That's a that's a way to responsibly do that. Um I prefer the NIV. Um my Bible that I use that I would have brought
23 minutesthat I forgot even though we were doing a video on Bible translations. The one that I I have on the podium with me when I'm preaching every Sunday um is an NIV
Bible. And I I usually will reference NIV first um as my favorite. I really like the NLT when I'm doing my
devotions. It just it reads like someone I'm talking to.
But if I'm I've I've read enough of the scriptures, I've studied it enough. I've had to write, you know, graduate papers on
different scriptures. If I'm in the NLT and I'm like, I don't know if I love this wording or this this I've never heard it worded this way before, I'm
probably going to go back over in the New Testament to the original Greek or the NASB, the new New American Standard
Version or the ESV and see if I can dial it in a little bit closer to to what I think the text is getting.
It's going to be a brand new world because if for Latter- Day Saints, you know, and they make the recommendation, look, if you're in church, use the King
James version. And I think the reason is is because, you know, we we're already used to it. Number two, you don't I and this is inevitably going to happen.
I mean, there's a Pandora's box that's opened here, but it's, you know, you're in Sunday school and the Sunday school teacher is using the King James version and going through that.
And especially starting out, I see half the time someone Yeah. But the NIV says
this, right? And then somebody else, you know, well, the ESV says this over here.
I thought this was really interesting how they put it. That's going to happen all over the place. That's okay. That's that's part of growing pains in terms of going through this.
Yeah. And you I think you're more likely going to have and I say this because this is how it is in a in an evangelical context. You're not going to use the word but.
You're more likely to use the word and, right? Yes.
Not but as in Well, but I don't think the King James is right because the NIV says this. We almost never get that.
There are very very very few in instances of that.
The and is more of like, oh, this really clarifies what's what's being stated here to to read it in the ESV or the NIV. um where it might not be clear in
the in the in the King James. Um but hopefully the Elders Scorn president will just be able to say, "Guys, the Himlick says it when we're meeting together, we're use the King
use this." Yeah.
So, what about someone who is um really into study? Mhm.
What What version are they probably going to gravitate toward? I mean, this is someone who's educated. All of them. All of them. Okay.
Use all of them. Whenever I'm in intense study, um, I use a program called Logas and it I will I will bring up three or
four different translations up at one time and I'm reading them what's called parallel. I'm reading them in parallel with one another. If you're really into
studying, have two, three or four open at a time and you're really going to dial in. And here's the cool thing about that. This is actually how the translators translate.
Um, when they're looking at the various manuscript schools and the different cotices, they they look at them all side
by side and they want to see where there are differences in variance because that is actually what helps you zero in on
the essence of really what's being communicated. So, um, if you're really into studying, I would say use two or three at least.
Two or three at least. Yeah.
Find which ones you like the best and and I would range the spectrum of the formal equivalent to dynamic. So I would maybe have um I think a lot of is going
to want the King James open and I think um from there I would probably do ESV or NIV. Mhm.
And then an NLT living translation. And it's cool. The scriptur is going to just jump off the page at you. It's really fun. It's it's
it's it's kind of a a crude way of putting it. It's almost almost like a work work smarter not harder type of thing.
Like I don't want to have to figure out what is meant by wherefore seeing we also are compassed about.
I don't I that's a lot of work. I rather be well this thing since I'm surrounded by a large crowd of witnesses that was
just talked about in chapter. I think it I mean honestly I understand uh you know first of all Joseph Smith said the King
James version Bible is is is great right say it's perfect or anything but he was also only 200 years removed from it
true we're now over another 200 years removed from that and a lot has been discovered since then and back then also you've got that is
the number one book that is read by everybody that's what you learn to read on everyone's used to that English.
Yeah.
Whether you you know it's so it becomes a little bit more of your everyday language. It's what your reading language is.
No, the the the King James was the New Living Translation. The 1611 audience. Yeah. After Gene the Geneva. Yeah.
And then after 16 I think they revised the the King James. There's a lot of revisions of the King James.
28 minutesI think in 1620 or 1629 they did another revision. it would have read to I mean most people were uneducated back then
but even if someone was was it was being read to them and that's a whole other thing scripture is meant to be heard not
necessarily read and studied we have the luxury of being educated and having the medium for us to be able to on screens or on paper read and study
these things but even to a listening audience where we want to say that and that King James language is a higher
more round form it is not because like I said Shakespeare uses King James language and They said a lot of super inappropriate things with these and those, right?
Um, which today sounds formal to us, but was not to them then. It was not. It was the opposite.
It was the way they talk. Like I said, if you read the New Living Translation, which sounds like how we talk in 2026. I think I said 2025 earlier, but it's even
um King James would have sounded like the way the New Living Translation sounds to us.
Yeah. You know, and you know, I know you got a D minus in Spanish, but but you know, in Spanish, as an example, you know, the the tut in the to as in you.
Yeah.
Right. Is the that is the familiar.
In fact, that's what you say to your friend, that's what you say to a little kid, right? The formal is is
right. It it's it's it's that would be what we now see as the the vow. Sure.
Right. But for them back then that was poo. That was that's how you spoke to your friends. Sure.
All the time. And so we look at it the opposite of what we really should be understanding in scripture if we're reading the King James version of the Bible.
Yeah.
As this highly formal language, which it was not. Yeah. At all. It was friend language.
Sure. That they were speaking.
Yeah. Exactly. And and I think another thing too that that is really important for us to to name as well just when it
comes to the process of translation, the new translations aren't just trying to put it in a modern day speak from a previous version or pre previous
translation. That's another thing that's important. I think there's been a misconception that the NIV and the NLT is a modernized version of the King
James and it's not. The New King James is a modernized version of the King James and pulls on some of the original
manuscripts or older manuscripts, but also is really just pulling on the original translation of the King James.
But the NLT, NIV, ESV, NASB, NRSV, all these different ones. Um, they're they're going to manuscripts. They're
they're they're drawing from the original language. They're not just going to some other English translation and modernizing.
Yeah. going back to the Greek and back back to the Hebrew Hebrew and the Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.
Yeah. That's interesting. Uh I think for me it's very exciting because I I think as people read these other versions,
it's going to open up. First of all, it is it's as we've been talking with the King James version, it is laborious.
Yeah, it's very laborious to go through and read it. I mean, in some ways, you could say it's enlightening, maybe even rich,
um, to speak this kind of language, but boy, to go in and say, "I'm doing my scripture study every day. I'm getting up at 5 in the morning or 5:30 in the
morning to do my scripture study every day and go through the King James version." What night and day that is to go to an
NIV, as an example, and and and start reading and it's like, "Oh, this is I've removed a laborious portion
of studying the scriptures just makes it a little more accessible.
And that's okay because that's also what your elders porn president is trying to do. Yeah.
That's also what the general authorities doing at Journal Conference. They're trying to make the scriptures more accessible and more applicable.
Yeah.
And and that's always a good thing, especially if it's going to lessen the intimidation factor.
Mhm. and and allow or or inspire people to hunger for it a little more. You know
what I mean? It's almost it's it's the difference between, you know, having a null on a steak versus, you know, a hamburger. Sure. Easier to eat, right?
Um, so yeah, I I think that it's it's is a great thing. And one question I I was thinking about with all of this,
I know that we we just stated that the modern English translations are coming from original language. they're not
coming from previous versions. So, we don't have that luxury with the Book of Mormon because the plates are no longer accessible. Um, do you think there would
ever be a modernized version of the Book of Mormon?
I was I was getting to that. I was getting that. I don't know because this is what what is going to be I think people are going to be very
excited about reading new versions of the Bible, new translations of the Bible. and and yet the other scripture that we have. So
the Book of Mormon, it's not just the Book of Mormon, but the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine of Covenants, which are written
in a Jacobian, but let's just call it a loose Jacobian style, right? King James style,
they're not quite as rigid, but but they're still reflective of what you get in the King James version of the
Bible. And so that's going to be like, oh, and all of a sudden I've gotten used to the NIV as an example and I'm reading Bible this way and then I'm going, you
know, and I've got come follow me in the Old and then the next year in the New Testament, right? Then we move on to whatever is next, I think.
Yeah. Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon. And so now boom, I'm back to this other language, right?
That's going to be a really interesting dynamic for Latter- Day Saints because it'll it'll So I I I don't doubt that. I I here's
the problem with it. Here is the problem with it. Because for us,
we have the issue with the Bible already, right? Where we say that we believe in the Bible as far as it is
translated directly. I mean, of course, our idea of translation is a little broader than most people think it is, but um and so and and there there's such a
deep feeling of well, are there plain and precious things that have been lost? Mhm. especially in the Old Testament.
But but and so it's like, okay, there is such purity in our theology and
in the DNA of going back to what we believe is
a prophetic pure plates called the brass plates,
right? That are written by the hand of prophets. actually by the hand of prophets used as the scripture for the Nephites.
Mhm.
A bridged a bridge. Sure. Later later a bridge, right? Well well we don't know if the brass plates were a bridge. Okay.
Themselves but but the there that's what their book of scripture is, right? Or this brass plates. So now they're writing down
um their own books, the prophets of the of the of Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon. Okay. I see. Yeah.
And then Yes. It's a bridged, not all of it. Yeah.
Right. But all the most of it is a bridged by Mormon, a prophet of God, and then Moroni, right? And and then
it's actually Moroni, the last one to write in it, who delivers the plates to
a prophet, to Joseph Smith. So you have this, and it's all throughout the Book of Mormon, this line of everybody who is in charge of it,
right? describable DNA to where it comes to Joseph Smith and then Joseph Smith is the one that is
that does the translation by the power of God. Right. So that would disrupt it. Mhm.
I mean I because I don't the prophet the president of the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today is not going to take that long.
Mhm. Sure. that that's not going to happen for another prophet another day.
That's maybe for somebody else at some other time. But and the scholars aren't going to do it.
Now, the scholars may do it on their own, but that is not that's the problem with that is is there that that is going to
disrupt that line of purity that we see in the Book of Mormon especially.
Well, what about translations of the Book of Mormon into other languages? Are they using I mean obviously they're not using King James English, right?
So is is it in in other and I if you don't know the answer to that it's just a a question I have because the Book of Mormon is translated in how many languages? I mean lots and lots of
I think more than any other book in the world.
You go to MTC and there's like bookshelves of the different translations of the Book of Mormon, right? Um, I wonder how formal the language has been because we've now
jumped languages and has that compromised the trustworthiness, integrity or fidelity of the Book of Mormon in Swahili or not? Mhm.
Um, and I would argue if I were Larry Saint, which I'm not, but I would argue, well, we've already jumped languages here. We're not all going to be speaking
in 19th century speak forever, so let's update it.
No, that's a great point. It's a great point. I just don't know. I mean, obviously, unless you had a prophet
again who would be translating that, I I I I still think prophets translate the Book of Mormon into Spanish.
No.
So, I don't I guess I don't understand why a prophet, if we're if we're going to preserve the 1830 version or 1838,
whatever, whatever the the the version is it's held now, we're going to keep that Mhm.
as sort of the Rosetta stone, if you will. Um, why would you need a prophet?
Why can't he use a bunch of scholars that are experts in 19th century language? Mhm.
And linguists of the current day to say, "We're going to we're going to harmonize this." Yeah, you could. Yeah. Again, you you could. I just I have an opinion here.
Yeah. I just I I just don't know if it will happen, right? Just because of that. Yeah. So, yeah, I would love to see that.
Sure.
I would love to see that. I think that would be great. And if I always had the Rosetta Stone there to pull from. I mean, you've got some examples of it's
very very minimal, you know, but but a few words here and there that have been revised because of uh um
it's not 1830 anymore connotations. Yeah. Of 1830 to to 2026.
Um but so at a very very minute scale that has already happened. Yeah.
Right. So, I don't know. But that's a very interesting question. I I would have loved to see it just to read it like that. Sure. Like, yo, I'm Nephi, you know.
Well, you guys have two years before you do that and come follow me. Yeah. Yeah.
I might I might put a wager even though I'm not a betting man to see if that change takes place because um shameless plug here. I'm I'm going
through Come follow me on Hello Saints this year. Okay. Um Old Testament.
And that was another reason I was elated cuz I planned on doing that. I was like, Old Testament's coming up. I want to start doing some Hello Saints Bible study videos because there's nothing greater than people coming together to study the Bible.
Sure. So, let's do come follow me together.
Um, so when that announcement was made in December, I was like spiking the ball in the wind zone. I'm like, this is awesome. So, that means I can
I can safely use the different translations without people in the comment section saying, "Yeah, you're using a Yeah. terrible version." So, yeah.
Okay. What uh w with this change where do you see any other what do you see in
the future of studying the scriptures for Latter Day Saints?
The more passionate get the more passionate people get about studying the scriptures, the more they're going to want to
communicate it. So I think not just I read my scriptures today and it was really edifying. I think where it will
come up in conversation and even the reciting of scripture, the memorization of scripture um might be easier for kids
to do in a non King James. I mean, we we do a lot of Bible memorization in the evangelical world. And there's there's
so much to that. So, I think that it becoming more part of the vernacular of how we speak and not just how we're
studying and reading, but how we speak and how we think um is going to be, I think, really exciting to see what that does in the lives of of Latter-day Saints and and
even in the in the culture and the community of Latter- Day Saints. Um yeah, there there there are certain passages of scripture too that I think
are really important to us as evangelicals and Protestants that live saints don't know about just because
there has seemed to be sort of this trim down focus on specific passages to sort of butress assertions assertions of
Latter Day Saint belief when if you're just reading it and you're like taking it in. um like one that my wife used.
She was doing a Bible study with a bunch of Latter Day Saint women a few months ago and it's um he who began a good work in you will be faithfully completed.
That's like a go-to passage for every evangelical on planet Earth knows that passage and all the Latter Day Saints were like I've never heard that in my life.
And Joy was like really like that's like a go-to for us. And then they had this amazing conversation about what is being
said there when that he who started this salvific redemptive work within me is not sitting back waiting for me to continue to get it right.
But since he is the one that brought me to life, he in his faithfulness is going to carry it through to completions and it will be made sight when I'm in his
presence. Like that's a powerful passage of scripture that's easy to remember and easy to recite that I think the more we run across verses like that, the more
that becomes part of our conversation and the clarity of who God is and what he's doing in our lives. That's always a good thing.
Have you always studied from different versions? What about as a kid?
Yeah, I always Yeah, NIV was really popular in the 80s and 90s it was sort of the go-to. Um,
but I would say as early as middle school, um, I was using the, um, a
translation that has since fallen out of favor called the Living Translation. Not the New Living Translation, it's called the Living Bible.
That there was a realization, not a realization, there it was known at the time when it like hit the scene to not
be scholastically messy. And people caught it immediately.
like different people like Russian was like this version just came out.
Set it aside. It's more of a paraphrase. Same like there's one called the message that Eugene Peterson did.
Um he was a big Christian author thinker. Same thing. It's very very very much a paraphrase scholar as soon as and that's the other thing people will say
like well how do you know we can trust these? Because when a translation hits the scene and all the different peerreview scholars of all the different
denominations look at it and they're like time out. The message isn't even a translation. It's a paraphrase. That's almost more of a commentary.
So, let's let's be careful with that. I mean, that's how much care and um hypervigilance is
applied to making sure we're using trustworthy translations. So, I as I was growing up would dip into some of those other ones,
but I stayed pretty true to the NIV, NASB, um, ESV, and NLT. Those are probably the
four that I've used the most going back to middle school. Yeah.
I mean, some of those came on the scene since then, but yeah. Well, and again for Latter Day Saints, I mean, going back to the 13th article of faith and Paul, it's believe that anything that is
virtuous and you know, true and you know, we want to pull from that and and that goes right along with this. And Latter- Day Saints,
44 minutesI mean, anybody who's studied a lot, for example, has also used so many Christian scholars in studying
the Bible, right? Right. I mean, Entr Wright is just anybody who's studied Paul has studied Ant Wright. Yeah.
That's a Latter Day Saint, right? Or even going through like I use Bible hell a lot and and you know, there's commentary all over the place. I pull from that all the time. Yeah.
And and and you should you should pull from those things. Obviously, you want to pull from Latter Day Saint if you're a Latter Day Saint uh Latter Day Saints
scholars also, but uh there's just so such a large amount of of
uh archived commentary and knowledge that uh that you can find in these different websites that offer all of these different uh these different versions.
Yeah. Yeah. There's there's so many tools out there. I think that's the other thing to answer your previous question. How do I think it's going to impact Latter- Day Saints? you you you
there are so many tools out there that um utilize different translations that's just going to it bring more to your disposal to really dig into the scripture.
Well, give me an example to finish up here. Give me anam a few examples of of some of the websites that you would use to it's probably one you like the most, but I mean yeah, Blue Letter is always good.
Um the one that I've always used, I don't know why it's almost like a habit at this point is Bible Gateway. Mhm.
Um, whenever I'm doing rigorous study and sermon prep, I use Logos, but that's on a website. That's an actual program.
Um, there was one called Bible Works for a while. I think I might have changed names, but um, the thing I love about like Logos, for example, is whenever I
pull it up, I've got I've got it saved so that when I pull up any passage of scripture, we'll just talk in the New Testament. um these these windows appear
that I've sort of pulled together where it's the passage in Greek and the NIV and the NASB and the ESV all right there
with some selected commentaries below it and I can click on any word and it's going to take me to what's called BDAG which is the basically the Bible
46 minutesdictionary for um people that want to look at original like the range of people original languages and stuff like that. So, um,
if people want to invest in stuff like that, Logos, hands down is my favorite, um, Bible program that's
not just a web-based like read the Bible online type of thing. As far as phones are concerned, the most popular app, I think it's the most popular app in the
world. I could be wrong. It's just the U version Bible app. Yo, U version, I think they've said that there's been like
a couple billion downloads of the Uver Bible app. So I when I'm on my phone, I'll use that, but I have Logos on my phone, too. So often times
I'll pull Logos up on my phone. So Awesome. Cool. And Logos is logos. LG OS. Yep. All right. Well, thanks so much, Jeeoff.
Appreciate it. This is a a new chapter for Latter-day Saints and one I think is very exciting and uh we'll see how this
unfolds in in culture and in study and in church. But, uh, I think it's going to be pretty a few growing pains, but I
think it's I think it's going to be very much a positive thing.
Me, too. I'm excited to study study the word with you guys. All right. Thanks again. Yeah. Thanks