LDS Idaho Abortion Letter - First Time Position On Active Abortion Vote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Area Presidency put out a letter on the Idaho abortion issue - Proposition 1 It came out the day after President Oaks' compromise address at the National Cathedral It's the first time the Church has come out with a statement on an active abortion, political abortion issue. While the church has denounced abortion many times, including by Dallin H. Oaks and Russel M. Nelson, both from the pulpit at General Conference, it has never come out against a specific political decision outside of Roe v Wade. Those who advocate for Pro-Choice, are using the ridiculous "Agency" argument trying to cram in their worldview into church doctrine. Polls show 60% approval to pass Proposition 1 in Idaho.

 Raw Transcript:

All right. The Idaho abortion letter from the church. That's what we're going to talk about. Signed the day after
President Oak's address at the National Cathedral on compromise.
And this is what I've been talking about. This is there is a an element of compromise that uh President Oaks wants
to put forward. However, that does not mean that you compromise on everything and you you you keep to
your core values, which is exactly what the church is doing here in a little bit of a surprising move in putting out a
letter specifically against abortion, an abortion uh proposition in Idaho. The church does not typically do this. They
don't typically get involved with politics. They do every once in a while.
Of course, there's a record of this going through all the way back into the beginnings of the church. However, it just doesn't happen that often, and it
doesn't happen really hardly ever on abortion, if at all on on abortion. So, this that's kind of new. So, we want to talk about this.
Welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson. I am your host. This episode is brought to you by the Three Continents Tour. one of my very favorite church
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there. All right, getting to the letter here. This is interesting. What is new is a letter on abortion from the church.
That is definitely new. Uh what is not new is the church taking a stance on these things, but even though it doesn't
do it very often. I want to talk about that. And then the timing on this is just so fascinating and something we should draw from and learn from.
the the discussion was interesting and I've done an episode on this already from the address from President Oaks
uh in that the spirit of compromise and how the founding of America was put together is an important thing. However,
there were core values in that constitution that were put forward that are not negotiable. that a lot of that
has to do with liberty and freedom and the ability to have a pluralistic society and not have a state overrun its own citizens.
More there as well, but that that is the founding the founding principles that allow us to have a constitution and a
[clears throat] pluralistic society. Um, the next day the letter comes out from the area presidency, not from the first
presidency, but come on, it's certainly going to go through the channels on something this hot and comes out in
Idaho against Proposition One, which is going to open up the pretty strong ban on abortion in Idaho uh to allowing you
basically selective abortion for those that are inconvenienced by this and uh are not wanting to have the
consequences of promiscuity typically or of you know engaging in an act that is a
creative act. Uh I think that's a big part of our culture today is we're trying to remove consequences outcomes
from our decisions and we do this in our own religion. We do this with treat how we treat Jesus and God and who he is and
his nature by trying to remove all consequences and judgment from God. And
you you see this more and more and this is just a big part of it. We're part of a society more broadly in in the West
and in the United States where where we are adopting unfortunately a number of these ideas of not having consequences
and with our decisions. Um the letter is very specific in how it
is against abortion. And let's be very very clear, what is surprising perhaps to some
is not just that the letter is put out, it's the reaction to the letter and how many people online have been fighting against this. Their number one argument being agency, which is sorry, it's crap.
Uh, and we're going to cover that, but it's that might be surprising to some individuals in the church. It shouldn't
be anymore because there is a a a has been a slow I'm not even going to say slow. I mean there's been a a a a
drift to the left in the church where these things are more tolerated
6 minutesand more accepted and sometimes often advocated even within the church.
And even though it is completely against the church teachings, against the gospel, against the words of the prophets, these ideas have been accepted
more and more. And as you have people drift more and more to the left, especially honestly the women in the
church, you're going to have more and more of the left's positions accepted because you naturally fall into a new
world view. And so you start adopting the other positions. So you might have parents that have an LGBTQ child and
they've started to change their mind on positions of the that the church takes on LGBTQ issues and same-sex marriage
and things like that. Well, once you bring that in and you start opening up your information silo online
to those types of voices, what comes in with that are the other voices that
advocate and push and preach for other positions that are contrary to the
gospel. And it's not that the right doesn't do this. They do too. That happens also. But I'm just it's typically in the past been from the left
where you get these ideas from and this world view and an opening up of uh
new new thoughts and practices and advocacy for a number of different things that
the church has never supported and has preached against constantly. And I'll go through that also. The church has a very
very strong position on abortion and church members need to know that because they don't always hear it which is why
this is a good thing that this is getting so much attention online.
It has been talked about at general conference. It has been talked about uh in in other addresses. It has been talked about in articles from the church
from the brethren. It has uh it is in the handbook. It's very very clear. And
yet there's been a drift of of of members of the church that have started to move over into pro-choice
positions because of this idea often this idea of agency which is
preposterous. So what is the letter? Um the church it states this is in the letter the church opposes this initiative.
Very clear. The church opposes this initiative. That's a quote. It's urging members to study these things and
study them out, but it's making the church's position very very clear on on how it looks at this. I don't know if this is something
new that is coming up because uh you have a president Oaks as president.
People that are left-leaning in the church may not like this because they have seen him in the past as a very conservative uh leader of the church.
um and and and especially those that have been advocating and and accepting uh
abortion for convenience as an option for women generally again the idea of
abortion is tied very very strongly to feminism.
Why? Well, because a woman tied to motherhood to several children is against what feminism teaches.
Feminism is looking for a more masculine role for women. It is looking for careerism.
Um, and being tied down by children is something that is going to hold women back. That's that's ultimately the
position of radical feminism. People will push against that and say, "Well, there's other options in feminism." Whatever. The core seed of this comes from an opposition to motherhood.
And and it it it might be diluted down certain channels of feminism eventually, but that is the core seed of all of
this. So, there's also coalition framing. It it talks about being involved with others. We joined, it
says, with other like-minded individuals and organizations. So, they're part of a coalition that is fighting this. This is interesting.
This is going to be for many uh Christian groups, conservative Christian groups. They're going to be very happy
about this because the church honestly has taken a different approach based on President Oak's compromise idea and
fairness for all idea with LGBTQ issues as an example. I have spoken to several
very prominent high-end pastors on this and and they're their question to me
every time is what's going on with the church because they've seen the support for the fairness for all act that uh President
Oaks talked about in 2015. They don't like it. And then the RFMA, the federal act that President Oak supported also
the church supported. We sent general authorities to the capital on the signing on this along with the LGBTQ advocates which was very interesting
scene and and so they're like what is going on? Why is this happening? And so they're going to like seeing this that there's a coalition that the Latter-day
Saints are a part of this. Now that doesn't mean that whether that's good or bad has nothing to do with it. I'm just making you aware of of the dynamics that
are happening in especially the evangelical world and one side of the world uh
where where the church has not been involved as much or at all and supporting things that they are completely against.
That has been kind of interesting over the last several years.
But they are working with a coalition here in with other organizations and individuals to try and fight this in
Idaho and it's it looks like this might pass, right? It looks like this proposition might pass. And so I've been
contacted by a number of different advocacy groups for pro-life advocacy groups trying to say, "Hey, what can we
do? How are we going to get this uh word out? We wanted we want you to talk about this." That's not why I'm doing this. I planned on doing this from the very
beginning once I saw the letter, but they're worried about this and so they want to get the vote out, right?
Uh, Proposition one, let's just go over a little bit what this means and then I want to get into this point of agency and and the the the doctrine behind this
and the possibly surprising to you actions of many church members and words about
why they why they believe uh uh abortion should be allowed in the church. It's preposterous, but we're going to cover
it. So, a couple of things. This is Proposition One certified by the Idaho Secretary of State on July 14th, 2026
for the November 3rd ballot. So, this is voting uh for voting up coming up on the November 3rd ballot. It establishes the right to reproductive freedom. All
right. It's going to loosen everything that has been put in place by the ban uh the the abortion ban in Idaho and allow
for the uh uh the choice of selective abortion for inconvenience. That's the number one
reason that this happens and it's not even close to other reasons. It's about 97 plus% of all abortions are simply I
don't want the pregnancy. It's an unwanted pregnancy. Period.
Um, it's a statutory initiative. That's important to understand. So, it's not a constitutional amendment. That means
that the legislature will be able to take this and make amendments to it and they'll be able to change it. So, if it is wide open, the legislature can come in and and qualify this a little bit.
This happened to the measure in Utah in 2018 as well. Uh but that's that's
there there there is some wiggle room as far as to what can change with this through the legislature uh based on um this being uh a statutory initiative.
All right. What about the polling? Where does this stand right now? A 2026 Boise State Idaho Policy Institute survey found roughly 60% support.
60% support in Idaho.
Understand what's happening. Yes, you have people coming in from other parts of the country and moving into places, especially in Utah, which is starting to
turn them, I believe, purple soon. And yes, Utah will be a blue state. Make no
mistake about it. Utah is going to be a blue state. and and it's going to be because of a certain segment of
Latter-day Saints that is going to help change the way people vote in Utah.
And and and that's another that's another episode that we'll talk about. Uh you have 92% of Democrats in Idaho that are for it.
63% of independents and 46% of Republicans, 46% of Republicans.
I you're you're in trouble here. You're in trouble on this if you're if you're
not wanting this to pass. Right. Um the backers, the Idahoans united for
women and families gathered more than 100,000 signatures and cleared the distribution threshold in 19 of 35
legislative districts. The opposition right argued by Idaho votes life and the dio dascese of Boise.
The measure is presented as protecting things already legal in Idaho. They say while in substance removing the physician only requirement weakening
parental consent. That's that's a big one to me. I to say that you can have a 14year-old girl.
This is the the state interfering, intervening
in in child parent relationships on massive decisions is a massive alarm for us in the United States and in the West.
it is the the the ability to socially trans uh uh transition. You know what's
happening in Massachusetts right now with those parents where the the the the state came in and will not let the
parents near the kid because they don't want the kid to trans
to transition and a counselor at school called these basically uh uh child protective services. I don't know what
they call it in Massachusetts against the parents.
That's that's where we are at at especially in these blue states.
So having a 14-year-old girl who says I want to go have an abortion and being able to do something like that without a
parental consent is is in it's it's hard for me to imagine that we live in that world right
now. and we do and in a place like Idaho of all places to be able to do that is
is very concerning to me. Um uh they permit late term abortion
represent the fairly uh yeah late term abortion. Okay. Now how often has the church done this? How often has the
church come out against abortion and and advocated politically for something,
right? They can come against it doctrinally, which they've done several times. We'll talk about that. But what do they do politically out there? They
they get involved with certain things sometimes. Let's take a look at what the record is going back to 1973, right? the first presidency responding
to Ro by calling abortion. And get this, these are the quotes of the first presidency when Roe passed.
Quote, one of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day.
One of the most revolting and sinful practices in this day. All right, this
is morally emphatic, right, from the church. and and I don't know that you're going to get anything stronger anywhere
against abortion. That statement right there, uh the historians of the period note
that the Catholic Church stood nearly alone in calling for the decision to be overturned. The LDS church condemned the
ruling without recommending political effort against it. Right? So again, a statement uh without political involvement.
That's that's often times where the church has been involved. That's usually where they are. They're making a recommendation. They don't want to step
into the political circles of of telling you what to do and what to choose and what decisions the Supreme Court should
make. They're not that has not been their policy. Typically, in some places, obviously, they have. Prop 8 in
California is a big one uh that they got involved with heavily and were probably the difference in that not passing.
Right. Okay. 1978. All right. A proposed Utah ballot initiative to restrict abortion failed to gain traction in part because the church stayed out of it.
They stayed out of it. The institution political that's in Utah itself. the institution's political capital was committed to the equal rights amendment
fight instead. Now, I remember this. I'm old enough to remember the ERRA fight.
And I remember uh the church being very involved with this at the time. And uh even in California, in Southern
California where I grew up, I remember uh my mom as an example and and and women especially of the church would go
down on freeway exits with signs trying to, you know, giving a message about don't pass the ERRA, don't don't
go with the ERRA amendment here. And uh so that was that was a very heavily involved
church uh uh initiative politically at the time and and I guess they were too focused on
that to get into the response to row on this uh politically. Anyway, then go to 1991.
The official statement read that the church as an institution quote has not favored or opposed specific legislative
proposals or public demonstrations concerning abortion.
Right? So they have not that language remained on the church's website for decades.
Okay? So they they again statements from the pulpit, statements in articles, statements from the pulpit in general
conference, but not suggestions or advocacy politically of getting involved
with the fight on abortion. That's important to see and to understand. and and and and it's it's you see more why
the why those that want pro-choice are in it's kind of like kicking the hornets nest right now with them, right?
They're in a bit of a frenzy because they've been happy the church has not politically gotten involved with abortion.
All right. 2022 after DOS, the church issued an update
updated statement. Still no legislative position on any specific measure.
Right. No position on this. Okay. Now, October 2024, just a couple years ago, this would be under Nelson, President Nelson.
uh with abortion measures on ballots in roughly 10 states.
The church reaffirmed neutrality politically and said only that members quote may appropriately choose to participate in efforts to protect life.
So that's about as far as they go. I'm going to repeat that statement that that's quoted, right? They said that uh
members quote may appropriately choose to participate in efforts to protect life.
So that's about as far as they've gone in the past on the abortion issue.
Didn't they didn't name any measures, propositions, uh statements primarily against any of these. There were no spec specifics on
this whatsoever. So what has changed then? Right. What has changed? Well, in September 2026,
this appears to be the first time in the modern area that that the institution of the church has actually taken a strong position, a position against a very specific political measure somewhere.
And they've done it here in Idaho with with the Proposition W. Now that that a lot of members in Idaho and
maybe one of the reasons that they've done this uh even though they didn't do it in Utah is they know that the influence of their statement and their
letter um with that many members can make a difference with this because they're going to lose. It looks like they're it
looks like they're going to lose. Now it'll be interesting to see the polling after the letter. Give us a little time to sit. We are at midepptember.
Um you do something here over the next two to four weeks to get another poll on this. It'll be interesting to see where
the numbers go. And I think it's going to move in the direction against Proposition One. This will make a
difference. How much? I don't know. I um I I think that these ideas and this
political worldview and not just political I mean just the the the it is polit it's all
political but the the world view is changing so much with so many members of the church even in places like Idaho
that I don't know that even a letter like this is going to be enough to swing as much as it did say for example in California on Prop 8.
Uh I it'll be interesting to see. And uh it'll also be interesting to see, you
know, on Prop 8, they had members of the church from all over the country
calling people in California. Do you remember this? getting involved and calling people to they they'd be
selected and called from wards to call people in California about this about Prop 8. So, it'll be interesting to see
if they take another step and get that politically involved with this. I I I I don't think so, but who knows? Okay.
Where has the church gotten involved politically in the past? Not with abortion, right? the ERRA, the Equal Rights Amendment in the 1970s and early
80s, big time, big time involved with that in the West. Uh, Prop 8, of course, in 2008, very strong letter read from
the pulpit and and mobilization organization at a high level from the church, allout effort on on Prop 8. Uh,
they may regret that. They may have regretted that afterward. In fact, their positions changed once
once you had same-sex marriage uh coming through. I I you know, things
changed. Things changed. It's kind of like, okay, this is the world we live in and we're going to compromise on certain issues. That's changed. Will the same thing happen with abortion?
We'll see. We'll see. uh prop P proposition 3 Medicaid expansion
uh 2018 ballot the church state on the sidelines there and then outside of the United States they get involved every
once in a while also on on issues issues of especially of same-sex marriage where they've they've been involved with those
things. Um, I don't know that you could say that outside of this letter from the area
presidency that the church has gotten more involved under President Oaks. It wouldn't be surprising to see us get more involved under President Oaks. Um,
but I I I I don't think at this point that you can say that that's going to be a trend. Uh, we we don't know that yet.
What has President Oak said about this?
This I want to get to this agency argument now and finish up with this.
This agency argument is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. And I cannot believe that people are falling for it.
You have a you you those that do advocate for these things within the church, right? Those
that advocate for pro-choice and are firmly entrenched politically and activists for pro-life
push this argument because they think it fits within somehow our doctrine which it does not. And their argument is very
simply we believe in free agency very strongly. And because we believe in free agency, we need to allow prochoice for people.
In other words, the law needs to change so that they people still make up their own minds, but there's no law punishing
anyone for having an abortion. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That you have rules and laws for everything that people choose to do. People murder.
They choose to murder.
To say that agency is supreme, which it is.
And because agency is supreme, you don't want to have laws against murder because people need their agency is ridiculous.
Or apply it to stealing someone's property. Well, people might choose to do that.
They might steal choose to steal someone's property.
So, let's not have any laws against it because it's agency or or to drive drunk. Well, it's their agency.
So, because it's agency, we're going to let them We're not There are no repercussions to this.
You're talking about again life. You're talking about ending life with abortion.
It's it's it's sickening. Honestly, it is disgusting and it is sickening. And it is very unfortunate that our our
civilization has come to this. I mean, what would how would it change the birth rate if we didn't have abortions?
And and the most marginalized parts of the United States, the demographics of the United States are the ones that suffer the most from this.
Their families are destroyed.
And and and it supports promiscuity.
It it is against motherhood. It's against family. It's it's a disgusting practice.
Absolutely disgusting practice. Here's President Oaks um
in a couple of places here in general conference and we have had a couple of talks on
specifically on abortion from President Nelson, then Elder Nelson on this and a talk from Elder Nelson.
I'll get to that in a minute. And or an article, I think I want to say it was Elder Anderson that also spoke on this,
but this is President Oaks um talking about this from general conference. He says it's that abortion
is quote, "One of the most serious abuses of children or or excuse me, one of the most serious abuses of children
is to deny them birth." [snorts] Right? That was from President Oaks in his address in 2012.
In that same address, he ties the birth rates, of course, to abortion. He went over this on his very first address after President Nelson passed away.
President Oaks went over the birth rate.
It is a massive problem that is going to cause the calamities from the last paragraphs of the family proclamation.
It it is the biggest temporal ultimately spiritual problem that we have on earth and and and no one cares about it.
Um he tied it to birth rates uh citing a an estimated 40 million abortions
worldwide then in 2012 each year and made the point that this is not only a religious concern because societies that
stop having children hollow out. that that's the problem they do. They they fall. Civilizations fall. This is the same thing that happened with Rome with
the birth rate. The exact same thing happened and it was primarily feminism quite frankly. And that is
substantiated. That is not a guess. That is that is uh the the coined women's
rights which is really not about women's rights. It's about not being a mother.
uh is really what it is. So that happened. So then also um
in that address he says our commitment to God's plan requires us to oppose abortion and euthanasia.
Requires us to oppose abortion and euthanasia. So you ask yourself, why are there more and more members of the church that are supporting abortion?
That's that's that's a very good question. that I think should be asked.
Why are more and more members of the church supporting pro-choice abortion?
Uh the agency argument in an article from or an address from uh uh uh President Oaks in 1999 at BYU called
weightier matters. This is cited very many times for different reasons, but in in in weightier matter matters, this was
on February 9th, 1999 and it was republished in the January
2001 enzyme. He says choice is a method, not the ultimate goal.
Choice is a method. Right? So his argument is basically the pro-choice framing has unusual pull on Latter-day
Saints precisely because agency is central to the plan of salvation.
He concedes the appeal rather than dismissing it.
So that's he he's addressing directly this whole stupid idea of of agency,
right? agency in in LDS doctrine is not an end in of itself.
The end is righteousness. The the end is making the right choices.
Okay. So he also discussed this in free agency and freedom kind of separating agency and freedom and how agency should
not be uh um placed over the freedom of others. So for unburn unborn children
that was at BYU also in 1987. President Nelson on abortion in general conference in 1985
states that his first and most direct treatment or excuse me uh this is the Saturday morning session.
He says I dutifully warn those who advocate and practice abortion.
Okay. He's making a warning, a prophetic warning to them that if you not only practice it, but that you advocate for
it, he is warning. He's giving you a warning against this
in choices. uh a a a an October 1990 general conference 5 years later he says
such choice would deny that developing individual both life and choice themselves. So you are by your own choice.
Think about that. Your single choice removes all of the choice of that new life. Okay. So,
[cough and clears throat]
a lot of things to look at and to parse out in this the address from President Oaks on compromise and yet the letter coming out
the following day. So, can we put those two together? Can you see that that that that compromise does not mean tolerance
over the lines of of principles and gospel doctrines. You you there is no compromise on that, right? We we don't compromise on on those things.
And and that should be very clear signal to people about how you work with others without
crossing a line. So, they're part of a coalition and and they're you're they're still
going to get involved politically with this even the day after that address was given from President Oaks.
And then in the agency argument, the garbage agency argument, please understand what that really means. We have agency in every one of those areas
of murder and stealing and drunk driving and and hurting someone and what whatever that is. It's all agency.
You're all always making the choice. The problem is you made a bad choice, right? The problem is making the bad
choice and the repercussions that go along with that. So, the agency argument is just garbage.
It It's preposterous. Please don't fall into that.
And from me, I will say the same thing is what the church is saying and the prophets have always said. If you live
38 minutesin Idaho, go out and fight this proposition.
It's wrong. It's wrong. It's really, really, really wrong.
And you you you have an opportunity to make a difference. and doing something right with this.
We should be involved politically with things and we're going to see more and more with the church.
Abortion is a very very big political issue. One of the biggest, if not the biggest, a very big political issue.
Marriage, same-sex marriage and and heterosexual marriage is is a bigger and bigger political issue. And it's going
to get bigger and bigger as as the the g the groups of single individuals increase and those of marriage decrease.
It's going to become more and more political and having children is going to be more and more political.
It's all going to be political. It all is political. Please understand that the core doctrines of the church will all be
front and center politically, including the doctrine of Christ.
That is what the Book of Mormon actually teaches.
They all become political. They all fall with these dissenters against the doctrine of Christ. And what is it that Captain Moroni is fighting for? Five
things. He's fighting for five things, and this is one of them. He doesn't list abortion specifically, but he does family.
Those five things are God, religion, family, land, and liberty. Those five
things is what they have to fight for and that they don't compromise on at all. And we shouldn't either. Thanks for listening.