Eve And The Patriarchal Order

The love story in Genesis almost everyone misses Hannah Stoddard on anxiety, identity, and God’s order for women Beauty And The Beast Is A Story About Marriage And The Fall Eliza R. Snow Had a Better Answer Than Feminism Pictographs, the rib, and what Genesis teaches about husbands and wives The Woman’s Role in the Patriarchal Order Women Are Hurting. The World’s Cure Is Making It Worse What Paul Actually Meant by "Wives, submit"

 Raw Transcript:

Um Brigham Y. Young said, "It is said by Moses the historian." History um that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib
and formed the woman that Adam called Eve. This should be interpreted that the man Adam like all other men had the seed
within him to propagate his species, but not the woman. She conceives the seed, but she does not produce it.
Consequently, she was taken from the side or bowels of her father. This explains the mystery of Moses's dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve. So, I
have mixed feelings on this whole topic when you're like, "Okay, let's try to understand and and undo all of the feminist brainwashing that we really are
all laboring under. Like, we actually don't realize just how bad it is." What is a woman? Well, the answer may start
in Eden. Ask young women in almost any young singles ward how they're really doing and you'll hear about anxiety, depression, not feeling like they're a
part of things. Hannah Stoddard thinks this is what happens when we try to become something that we're not. So, we go back to Eden, the rib, the Hebrew
word for woman. Why Adam partook of the fruit? And we even discuss Paul's words about wives submitting to their husbands. What does that really mean?
Oh, and also the original Beauty and the Beast story is about the fall. So much to unpack in this episode. But first,
this episode is brought to you by Go and Do Travel and the Gospel on the Nile tour. I am leaving on this today. Very excited about this. Bringing a group of
people to go see the pyramids, have a camel ride. We're going to cruise down the Nile where Moses was sent in a
basket. Walk in the footsteps of Abraham, Joseph of Egypt, and Moses.
Walk into brightly colored tombs. And by the way, you're going to see the temple everywhere, your temple, and you'll
recognize it right away. The education is fantastic. The sites are amazing, and the experience is one that you're never going to forget. To find out more, go to
quickdia.com, cwycia.com, and go up to trips and events, and then scroll down to Gospel on the Nile. Would
love to see you there. Here we go with Hannah Stoddard. Right.
[music] So Hannah, we have discussed previously a couple times the patriarchal order.
We're going to continue doing that here, but we're going to take it more from a a woman's perspective, a woman's role.
What was the f what's the first thing you would want to say or talk about in talking about women in the role of of the patriarchal order?
That's such a good question. Um, so I've thought about this a lot because especially I think especially when I turned 18 and I moved into a singles
ward and you know it's just a different environment. You hear a lot more from I don't know the ward I was in a lot of
the girls just felt comfortable sharing kind of like the concerns and things and I started picking up just how prevalent you know anxiety and depression and
those things were going on and I hadn't realized that in my teen years. I I feel like I came from more of a pretty happy
in environment. [clears throat] And so I mean I mean of course there were girls in my young women's that struggled and I was aware of that but to just realize I
just started realizing in lessons I was I was in the relief society presidency for a time in one of my wards and I just
started realizing wait like this is universally like there's there's something broken and women are really hurting and that has only increased the
more the more um older I've grown the more I've talked to women I'm like okay we haven't women are hurting and And I was
doing some research recently on statistics to kind of see, you know, how widespread is this? And and some of the
statistics, I mean, you can always looking depending on the statistic, but in general, um, anxiety and mental health is ranking
right up there as a top EP epidemic um, among women in America, women in the world. Um, there's also stress about
family, stress about money, things like that. But a lot of women are complaining.
Complaining might be the wrong word, but gre g grieving, feeling like, okay, I don't feel like I have a place. I don't feel like I have value. I don't have um
I'm not maybe I'm not appreciated. I don't I feel like a failure. You know, there's just all these emotions. And as I've kind of pondered this more and
more, I keep coming back to all of us become broken when we try to be something that we're not meant to be.
if you try to be someone you're not supposed to be you you you can't you you'll never measure up you're never going to fit that
and I of course coming from the background obviously we've already had the conversations about the patriarch order so was kind of already coming from
that perspective but I was like okay we need to better understand women need to better understand what is
my role what am I supposed to be doing what what's the difference what is what is a woman right [laughter] that question everyone's asking, but it's actually what is a woman?
And we laugh like, "Oh, we know." But do we actually understand like the differences and and the more I've
studied and the more I've been compiling everything from history to prophetic statements to we'll get into lots of stuff today, but
the more I found out is that the gospel really does have the answer. And sometimes sa Satan always has this mean little
trick he does where anytime there's a problem he creates the solution is the problem. So he says, "Oh, you know,
families are broken. This is what he did in the 19th century, right? Oh, the problem is men. The problem is God, Christianity, the problem is the Bible."
When really a lot of that is where the solution is. Um anyway, we'll we'll get into more of that, but I guess maybe I
just want to preface this whole thing first before we dive into all the fun juicy details. Um, I've been going to
the temple a lot this summer and something that keeps sticking out to me is um I'll be I'll be careful like
because I don't know like the boundaries of how much to say but um they've changed the opening now to open up with an invitation
and expressing how this is a gift and that has been on my mind so much as I have studied the teachings of the prophets and the scriptures when it
comes to the role of women that sometimes we look at commandments as this threat and this thing that's going to like ruin my life, you know, and and
it this is a gift. The celestial order is a gift that God wants to give to women. And it's an invitation. No one is
saying you have to do this. No one is saying you have to believe it. It's just an invitation for gifts and blessings and joy that you never even knew were possible.
7 minutesSo that there's my little preface. That's that's your little preface. Okay.
So looking at this, we've talked previously about let me back up and say that what is let's go over again what is the
patriarchal order [clears throat] and lay that framework before we get into women.
Yes. Okay. So the patriarchal order is essentially the government of God and how it is structured in the celestial kingdom. Um it was John Taylor or
Brigham Young who gave a good definition of priesthood. He was like everyone wants to know what priesthood. He was like it's just the laws that run everything. It's whether it's nature,
whether it's um politics. So prophets of the church have taught that the government, you know, today we have a president and a congress and a senate.
In the celestial kingdom, it's patriarchal. So it's structured by the family with a father at the head. And
every single father has a father who's ruling him. And then he has sons under him who become kings. And it's it's just
this beautiful generational family that's all welded together and linked together with priesthood.
So where the patriarchal order gets a bad rap of course where it's like ah like
you know we start skin starts crawling is part of it is um experience negative
experiences with it being abused. A lot of it though comes from Satan coming in and giving us a lot of false narratives.
Um, I want to talk about this a little bit later. Um, but I've been diving a little bit deeper into the whole like history of feminism. It actually has
crazy connections to the occult, to
[gasps and sighs]
all sorts of stuff that people don't realize. And a lot of it you start realizing is we we're we're sold narratives about how the world operates
um what's going on that isn't even based in reality. So, um, so we got to unpackage all those layers. And that's anytime we're coming
into a conversation like that. It's just like, okay, everyone breathe, take a deep breath. Let's just have an open mind here and let's let's let's start
fact-checking, you know, things we've been told, the way we see things, and just allow the Lord to kind of expand on how does he see things and how does he I want to inter interject something here.
Also, I've always I've had I I've had uh other women on that have s talked about feminism and and they'll even call themselves
anti-feminists, but they also say there is a type of feminism that I subscribe to and and and it gets a little bit confusing. I my
thing is because I've also done that that rabbit hole and and and looked at the origins here and I go back to the
the French philosophers in the 18th century all the way coming up through Marks and Angles and and to me it's a bad seed to begin with.
The seed is bad and so what is the fruit going to be?
Yes, that's that's kind of how I see it. It's like okay it's the same idea as like socialism. Well, they just haven't done it right before and so let's try it this way instead. my socialism will work.
Yes.
10 minutesAnd I that I have a hard problem with, you know, with that. I have a hard I I I I understand that there is
a call it a cultural void that that women are uh not maybe well
they they're not feeling appreciated in some ways. They're not feeling that they're in the right role. They're not feeling happy. Mhm.
And and so there's a desire maybe to maybe the issue is equality, maybe the issue is equity,
uh and and therefore the patriarchy and and other oppressive systems are are the
problem and we need to take those down, right? Because it's always goes back to critical theory, I think, and because that's what the seed is.
But anyway, I just I I agree with what you're saying to a degree. It's the the seed with that is difficult and and
viewers have heard me talk with with others about this topic of feminism and um anyway I know that that relates to
some degree in terms of the cultural pressures that women feel and maybe conflict, maybe don't. I don't
know. I mean, find out for what you have to say on that with this patriarchal order.
Yes. Well, um, everything you're saying is is really important and and before before feminism even got linked more with, you know, Markx's angles, the take
down of the family and all that, if you if you even go back to the whole suffrage movement, you've got women that were leading that movement that were,
you know, Christian, believing, um, pro- family, but you had others like Elizabeth Catty
Stanton and others that were hated the Bible. They hated God. They were involved in spiritualism, going to
seances. They um the three tenants of feminism really were free love
and the occult and then um hate the patriarchy like you know take down take down men and and now okay this is like
this is like a whole can of worms because there's the whole debate like the whole thing is rotten to the core.
Throw it out. We're not feminists. We don't even want anything connected that with that. And then you have others that are like hey well some of these thought leaders have good thoughts. They're good people.
There's something to this, right?
Obviously, we know we have a broken world. What is the solution?
And I've thought about this and I keep coming back to Eliza Arseno. So, Eliza Arseno, of course, is
the second Relief Society general president. In some ways, she's kind of the first because she's the one that helped kind of put it back together after it was not functioning for a long
time. So, in Utah, um, she gets it all going with Brigham Young. She's the one who starts the primary. She's the one, she's really the reason we have so many
programs in the church today. She was called the prophetist and president of the church.
Like she's a very influential woman and she lived during the suffrage movement. She learned lived during all of this.
And her approach was you guys back east, you know, in the in the states, you have a broken world. You don't have the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And so you're trying to stick band-aids on things that are just broken to begin with and and you're never going to fix.
And she she even wrote a poem where she said to women, she was like, all of you women that are clamoring for equal
rights and saying, you know, you can't respect men and you don't have men that can lead you. She's like, come to Utah.
She's like, this is where we have men that women are proud to acknowledge as their superiors. That's that's [clears throat] exactly what she writes in this poem where she says the
priesthood is the solution. the priesthood is the answer. And yeah, if the men out there in the world are too dumb for this, come here and you can
live God's order in a beautiful way and it is enobbling. Um, and so I think that was kind of her approach. And of course,
I mean, Utah was one of the first um, states giving women the right to vote.
There's a whole history of that though with plural marriage and everything.
That's not our purpose for today. But really the solution that Eliza Snow and so many others had were
more worldly philosophy isn't the solution. The solution is going back to all of the principles in the scriptures.
And that includes the patriarch order, includes all of the values, the temple, everything they felt like was actually the solution to fixing the whole women's rights issues.
Yeah. So counterfeits is you know if [snorts] we looked at most of feminism anyway you see some type of a counterfeit
to what might be the you might say is the patriarchal order. So going back to you say biblical going back to the Bible you know we get
examples there aren't very many but we get examples of these things in Genesis and we go through this in the temple over and over and over and over again.
Yes. Um now those uh how would I say the account has changed slightly in the temple. Um it doesn't change in scripture.
I would say maybe instead of changed maybe it's just a little less clear. Okay. It's a little less clear.
[laughter]
You know I wouldn't say that we've changed the doctrine. I just don't think the doctrine chang but it's still there if you want it.
Okay. That's a good way to put it. Good.
That's a good way to put it. Let's go back to that right away. I mean, can we can we start there in in Genesis? Back to the beginning.
Back to the beginning. We're looking at
[laughter]
Yes. If you've got uh, you know, in the temple, we are, you know, pet peeve of mine has always been that that we look
at that as history and and it's like, yes, it is history, but it's also a drama. And we should be
putting ourselves as we're told to, yes, in the position of Adam and of Eve. That's us. Yes.
Right. That is us. And we're the wrote on that. And I didn't bring it today. I was like, I won't need this.
[laughter]
Yeah. It's like, no, stop looking at this like you're just looking at Adam and Eve's history. This this is you. This is you.
And you fall, you partake of the fruit in a sense, and and you need the messengers, and you need to accept the gospel, and and you're tempted by Satan, right? It's
all that's you. And you go through the covenants. Yes.
Um, so we're putting ourselves in the position of Adam and Eve. And if we just even looked at the biblical account Mhm.
as men and as women. Yes.
We would be putting ourselves in that story. Yes. In a sense, what would that mean?
Yes. That that is the best place to start. So I'm just going to open up.
Let's open right to um Moses and Genesis are pretty similar on this. So um so of
course you have I'm just going to open up here to the creation of Adam. So this is before the fall and um so this is
Moses 3. I'm just gonna This is after he names the animals. Verse 21. The Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon
Adam. Um I'm not the world's expert on Hebrew. So on this I'm going to refer to like other people but some scholars I
have read have explained that the word for sleep here in Hebrew is not so much like sleep like we sleep each night but
it's a translike visionlike state kind of um when God makes the covenant with
Abraham um Jacob has his experience with um the angels and and everything. So it seems to be associated with covenant.
Yes. So, Adam is having some kind of an encounter with God, some kind of a visionary experience. And this is when
he, the Lord says, I took one of his ribs, closed up the flesh and the stud thereof, and the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman,
and brought her unto the man. Okay. Um, what is going on with the rib thing? And of course we always hear the
um simple which is true you know like okay here here's a woman at the side of um Adam but I want to this is a quote
18 minutesfrom Brigham Young and um this was in 1877 it's in the journal of El John Nuttle. Um Brigham Y.
Young said, "It is said by Moses the historian." History um that the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and took from his side a rib and formed
the woman that Adam called Eve. This should be interpreted that the man Adam like all other men had the seed within
him to propagate his species, but not the woman. She conceives the seed, but she does not produce it. Consequently, she was taken from the side or bowels of
her father. This explains the mystery of Moses's dark sayings in regard to Adam and Eve.
So, the reason why I think that is really profound is because of what Adam is about to say next. But it taps into
this beautiful and powerful once you actually kind of dig into it and start to understand it better. Um, understanding
of the role of men and women. Um, I remember the first time I read that quote, I was thinking I was like, I've never thought of but it's basic biology, right?
Yes, it's basic biology, but the man has life. Like a lot of times I think we um will talk a lot about like oh like women
can have children and men can't like the life comes from the man. Like this is this is not something like oh men can't
do this like women could not have children without the man. Basic science, right? Um but the power of this is um
the man he has life he has something that needs to be developed and birthed and it is the role of the woman to take
that to develop it. So you see this with children in a be in a beautiful sense develop it nurture help it to grow and
then return it to the father to be used for something. Um but it's the same concept elsewhere in life. A man brings
home money. The woman takes that money and uses it to create a home. He creates um he brings the groceries home if if
that's how it works, you know, but um and she creates a meal. It's her job to nurture and flourish and kind of develop something out of this.
And um I'm gonna Yeah, I'll go I'll I'll go into this because it's kind of fun. Yeah.
Um so well, okay. where um let me read the next verse.
Okay. [laughter] It all kind of fits together. Yeah. So, Adam says so so so this woman is brought
to him and it says, "Adam said, "This I know now is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." Okay.
I'm just going to say this. Go to the temple and ponder the names and signs and tokens um in the ironic priesthood.
And um Brigham Young also has a quote which I won't um read here because it's kind of coming from a a journal. I don't
know if it's like necessarily meant to be made public, but he talks about how um the signs and tokens in the ironic
priesthood are connected to the premortal life and the mortal life and um and
relationships there and relationships here and the link between the two.
Essentially, if you kind of ponder that with the temple and then what Adam is saying here where he's like bone and flesh, this is a woman who is connected
to him from the premortal life and mortal life and together the two probations are kind of being fused together for some kind of a mission and
the Lord is bringing that they're connected.
Um, this is again like so I'm just not just spouting off myself but I actually like
have like sources. Well, we we'll go to she shall be called woman. That's how he kind of um summarizes it there. So, in
um in the temple, of course, she's called Eve woman. I think they're both true. They both are revealing different aspects of the creation story, but let's
just go with woman here. So, something that is kind of fun with the Hebrew language is a lot of people know that Hebrew is very layered and descriptive.
Um, it's not it's a it's an eastern way of thinking, not a western. You know, in Western one plus one equals two. In
eastern, it's like, well, it depends on how you look at it. And there's lots of layers here, right?
And ancient Hebrew was actually all pictographs. So, it's all pictures and images.
And so, there's the there's two ways of reading it. There's one way of reading, okay, here's just the word and here's
what it means. And then there's another that I've seen some scholars take where they'll take a word and they'll break
down each picture and the pictures and the symbols together tell the story.
Now, I'm not the biggest expert on like Egyptian and stuff. You're you're way more expert, but I'm sure it's a similar concept elsewhere.
So, as I was pondering this, I was like, you know what? I know I know that the word for man in Hebrew, yes, is it's an
olive and it's a bait. It's it's the symbol of an ox and then the symbol of a house. It essentially is the strong leader of the house. That's literally what man means.
And aba is father. Mhm.
And um and and so I was like, you know what? Let's break down the word woman because it's very similar. Um so man and
um woman, they both have um and I have pictures. I don't know how to show these and maybe I just give them to you after
and you can see if there's a way to put them up like on the camera. Um but you have show it right here.
Yes. Okay. So, so this is the symbol for um the word for man and it you read it
from um right to left and so you have the olaf which in the ancient pictograph would have been more
of an ox head. doesn't look like that today. This um symbol is it's basically a hand. And if you think about that um
in biblical language, you know, the Lord is like my right hand, my hand of power.
Jesus Christ is the right hand of the father. The the hand is is it's a symbol of having power, authority, you know, the one that puts things into action.
And so the man has that symbol along with the sheen, which is this all-consuming fire. A woman has two of
the same symbols. She also is a strong leader. She also is a consuming fire for
good or for ill. But then there's this other symbol and it is hay. In the ancient pictograph it was a man with
hands raised up and it um signified revelation. Behold um also open hands to
receive. So revelation there's two aspects of it. I'm ready to receive with open hands whatever is going to be given
to me. But then also I'm taking what I have received and I'm witnessing or revealing it to the world. So again if
you think of like in a bio biology sense the woman she receives life and then she brings that life and reveals it to the
world like the world cannot see the life that the man has till the woman reveals it to the world. Um, also in a sense of
mission and testimony, I'm going to use um, Jesus Christ as an example. So, um, as a preface for those that are not
aware, it was very commonly taught in the early days of the church that Jesus Christ was married. Um, [clears throat]
if hopefully that doesn't set off too many people here, it's actually pretty obvious once you know Jewish tradition,
Jewish history. Um it was very very commonly taught in the early days of the church. You read the New Testament, it's very very clear these women following
Jesus everywhere were tied to him in a marital sense. And the reason why I think that that's actually
important like some people will be like oh it doesn't really matter to salvation. The reason why actually I think it is powerful is if you read the
New Testament understanding who these women were the understanding of the role of a woman is unleashed in a powerful sense in a priesthood sense of what her
role is. So, as an example, the story where Mary of Bethany comes right before Christ dies um and [clears throat] she anoints him
with the very expensive oil um with her hair. And this is when Judas is like, "Why didn't we give this to the poor?" And Jesus is like, "Do not."
[clears throat] Um so, there are prophetic teachings explaining that what she was actually doing was a very sacred priesthood ordinance to prepare him for
exaltation, the resurrection, to lay claim on him. That's a whole another um topic, but tied into the second anointing and everything. Um but if you
think about something, who was the first woman to see Jesus Christ after he was resurrected? Mary.
And sometimes people will go like, "Oh, that just shows how much he loves women." That is true, but there's
27 minutesactually a whole another deeper level that it was her responsibility and her role as a witness to her husband. She's
the one she witnesses. He is alive. He's been resurrected. And then takes that message to the disciples, to the
apostles. That's not an accident. She's fulfilling a very special role she has of witnessing, revealing, being a
revelator for her husband, both to bless him in their personal life, but also to say, "You have a message. Let me take this message out to the world."
Um, so there's there's so many layers you could go into on that. Um, is the
understanding, but it it just goes into men and women have this mission together. Okay, let me be careful. It's not men and women, husbands and wives.
This is something that sometimes I take it for granted and then I see conversations about the patriarch order and I'm like, oh boy. Okay, [laughter] let me remember some false traditions
28 minutesthat we have. patriarch order or patriarchy, whatever you want to call, is not about men running women, men ruling women. No, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no. The only man who has any responsibility to lead you as a woman.
Period. Period. Is your husband. And then if you're not married and you're still in the under the protection of your father, then you know your father.
Period. No other. And I it's not that I have to say that but I do to both
clarify false traditions and also we do have some problems. I I have had personal problems in my life with I most
of my experiences with men are very good sometimes not so good and sometimes I've had to be you know and I I'm a bit of a
fireball and so I say no and put up boundaries [laughter] when I have to.
Um just some yeah understanding of that I just that is so important to understand that when we're talking about headship and we're talking about men and
29 minuteswomen rules. This is about covenant structures. This isn't about oh just like men are better than women and
that's just how it fits. Like this is this is about priesthood. This is about order. This is about who you've made covenants to who's made covenants to you
in return. Um, and that is why I believe, you know, Eliza Arseno's response to the women's rights movements
and the suffrage and everything was like, well, we've got bad answers with bad answers mixed together. This isn't going to work. what you guys need is to
scrap all that and we've got to re understand our whole you know so so yeah because what you're saying is
really the crux I think of the problem of understanding this and and it's like whoa wait a minute here you know we'll
see we're going to see it in the comments section of this of this [laughter] video but it's it's we are we are our culture has been
put into a a critical theory lens right it's very victim and oppressor.
And and it's very hard and and we've accepted the role culturally of women as the victim and men as the oppressor.
Yes.
And so to say anything about well men are to lead women. [clears throat] Or again, now I just made the same mistake you did.
No. A husband should lead his wife, right?
Yes. Then then we automatically start think first of all in a knee-jerk reaction well well so you're so he's better. Yes.
Or he's more valuable or or he's the oppressor. Yes. Right. Whereas that's not the order.
And [clears throat] you talk about the covenants that are made to each other. That is the distinction. Mhm.
Because if anything, the way I look at it, because I do
uh no pun intended, espouse the the patriarchal order.
If anything, the man has the man is given it to me, it's just more responsibility.
Yeah, we're going to talk about that, right? It's just more [laughter] responsibility and that's based on the covenants and and the order that that that God has laid out on this, right?
Right. Yes. Yes. That's that is so a key and that's why I think it's important to go back to it. It it really all does
hinge back to Genesis. Like if you even go read everything Paul writes on marriage and all of that actually he
he's just expounding Genesis. He's just elaborating on Adam and Eve. You go back to Eliza Snow Brigham Young when they
were trying to teach this they actually are all going back to Adam and Eve.
They're like let help help you understand where this all started.
what's going on, priesthood order, covenants, the plan of salvation. And that's why I feel like having a conversation like this, it cannot be
just oversimplified. You have to sit down and have good conversations, understand like, whoa, why are we here? Where did we come from? Why are we here?
And where are we going? [laughter] Three basic questions. We're still trying to answer them.
So, if we go back to Genesis Y and we're looking at this, what about the term helpmate? Yes, we are we are here's again and
[clears throat] this is a natural reaction and it's part of the culture that we're in. But the way I see this right now playing out in
thought in LDS thought. Yep.
Right. is from an academic standpoint is is trying to
and there's justification for this, but is is trying to make it where first of all there's a clarification that this does not mean you're lesser.
Mhm.
Right. And that that does need to be clarified. It needs to be put in there.
But then there's there's like all these new translations of the Hebrew and I'm like, why are we
having to try to say this? Why do we have to try and say what this is? And and now we're forgetting some of the uh
the newer statements from uh Latterday Saint academics and scholars on on what this means. Yeah.
33 minutesBut it's always it's it's in reaction to the victim oppressor uh uh paradigm, right? That's and so I
get it, but it diffuses to me the role of man and woman. Yes.
In the patriarchal order when you're trying to justify against the in other words it throws it to the other end of the spectrum. I'm saying a lot of words trying to say the same thing.
Right. It's just I don't I don't think that the defining the definitions that and the way people
are trying to explain this is has any pertinance to the patriarchal order.
Right. Yes. Yes. So, so I have mixed feelings on this whole topic when you're like, "Okay, let's try to understand and
and undo all of the feminist brainwashing that we really are all laboring under." Like, we actually don't
realize just how bad it is. Um, and there's two aspects to this. One, we do
34 minuteshave sometimes legitimate misunderstandings. Like sometimes we do, you know, say, you know, okay, like the father is supposed to leave and
everyone's like, okay, that means I don't have a voice. That means I can't like if I have a need that's not being met, it's just like I zip zip it. Shut
up. Like and and if I'm being abused or hurt, I have no recourse. You know, there's there's that kind of thing. It's like, okay, just for just you're okay.
No, no, no, no, no. Trust me. Like, when we explain how this whole thing is set up, you're all good. on the other hand
is though we all do have a natural man and women have it just as much as men do
and men have it just as much as women do and if we go back to okay back to the beginning but let's go even further back
and I actually love that this is how the endowment starts because I think this is one of the most important parts of the story you have the father presenting a
plan and you have Lucifer and you have Jesus And the differences between the two of them is very very critical.
Lucifer gets up. This is so fascinating to me and it ties in to what you're saying. So just bear with me here for
just a moment. So when Lucifer gets up, what he actually says, if you think
about it, doesn't sound too bad. He says, you know, the father is saying, I have this mission that I have. I mean, okay, I'm implying that in the text, but right, we know there was this council.
Father has this plan. And Lucifer says, "Behold, here am I. Send me." That sounds pretty good, right? He says, "I
will be thy son." That's pretty good. I will redeem all mankind that one's soul shall not be lost. That's all actually pretty good, too, because if you
actually understand the father's plan, the father's plan is that everyone except for the sons of predition will not be lost. Mhm.
So that's that's great. But he says, "Surely I will do it. Wherefore give me
thine honor." When Jesus Christ gets up, he says, look what he says. He doesn't say, "I'll
be thy son. I'm going to redeem all mankind. I will do it." He says, "Father, thy will be done and the glory be thine forever." That's it.
So that is the crux of what it means to be like Jesus Christ is to be someone who instead of thinking what's in it for me, where's my spot? Where's my glory?
What am I going to do? Even even sometimes Satan works on us to do this in the sense of like I'm trying to do good, right? Like what can I do for the
kingdom? What can I do? like um the Jesus Christ's perspective was father what do you want me to do and I
don't want any credit for it. Now these are the two things that feminists
in and feminist ideology hates to the maximum. This is where and when I use the word hate I mean hate
like breathing cruel hate. Mhm.
If any if any woman was to stand up and say, "My husband has a mission. My husband has a vision, and I'm going to
support him in that, and I don't want any glory for it. I'm just here to build that up." Dying in the aisles.
Absolutely. Dying in the aisles. [gasps] And then also the second idea of, you know, I'm I'm willing to change my
mindset. I want I want to change. I need to change. I'm not perfect the way I am.
I need to develop. I need to improve myself. Someone is better than me in areas and I'm going to listen to them and I'm going to obey them and I'm going
to become a better person. These are the fundamental tenants of Jesus Christ message and mission. And yet to actually
put that into practice will bring all the gates.
Well, it's funny you bring this up. Just yesterday they had uh I don't know if you saw this on social media, but there was a uh Taylor Swift.
Yeah, I haven't been on social media for the last week, but [laughter] So tell me the layout.
She's she's watching her husband play the NFL game. She's recently married. Okay.
And and uh I I I think that there was a play where um he's a tight end, so he gets he gets a pass to him and he gets a first
down or something and something happens or a touchdown. And so she stands up and she's cheering and she points to a ring
and she says, "That's my husband." You know, "That's my husband." Uhhuh.
And it blew, like you said, everything blew up. I mean, there people were online saying how wrong that was. So terrible.
So terrible. So terrible.
Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. And and then of course there was the other side as well. But but so yeah, it plays out all the time, right? Yeah. And so I think this is
something that the more I actually study family order, the more I study women's rules, what keeps coming to my mind over and over is Hannah, this is so simple.
Actually, the more we live the gospel is actually all of this is sometimes we get stuck on like, oh exactly like whose
role is this or that. The more we dive into this, the more you realize that all the Lord is asking a woman to do is to
be like Christ and to develop those parts in her that understand what service is, understand what selflessness
is, understand what humility and meekness. And on the same flip side, he's asking the man to do that with him.
So, AB, absolutely. and and and I I came into this today and I was like I am not going to slip into the doing the qualifiers which I do that too all the
time, right? Where where it's like we can't have a conversation like this about like well you know a woman should do this without being like but but that
doesn't mean that and we need to make sure we talk about the man and I'm like I'm not here today to talk about men's roles. So if anyone's like, "Oh, like so
does the man ever have to be me can teachable?" Like, yeah. And guess what? There's a million resources out there of men talking to
men. That's great. That's not why I'm here today. I'm just here to talk to women. We're not going to do this with qualifiers. Um, but actually
understanding, you know, what does it mean to be like Christ and have Christ's attitude versus Lucifer's perspective?
Like Lucifer was like, "Yeah, I'm going to save everybody. I'm going to do I'm going to do this. And Jesus Christ had this meekness where he was like, the
greater you are, the more you are the servant. And we talk about that sometimes with priesthood, but sometimes
I don't um it's it's it's fighting words to exhort a woman to develop that as
well. But I can promise you, I know this from personal experience, there is nothing that brings a woman
more joy, fulfillment, satisfaction, um a closer bond with God, spiritual
experiences, than truly building up um a man and the mission a man has and and
doing that in the proper order and context. That is it. It's powerful. It's profound. You have to do it to see it.
But if you do the Lord's will, you'll know his doctrine. Um anyway, back to help meat. Is that what help me is?
Okay. Yes. So, um I mean there's lots of layers. So, yes, there's a lot of conversation today. It is based in this
Hebrew word that is sometimes used as an attribute of God um and rescuer
um even savior in a sense. And that is 100% true and should be true. Um it's
how you are a rescuer. It's how you are um a a divine help. Um that is sometimes
where we get off. And um I don't think we also realize just how toxic media is
and movies. Um, it's it's this thing that has become this vibe that, you
know, a a woman is the realest. A woman is a little sarcastic. A woman's got that jaded edge, you know, and we even see this slipping into good movies.
Like, okay, I'm just going to use a specific, this isn't offensive. I love the Joseph Smith prophet to the prophet of the restoration movie. I I absolutely love it.
Um, and the and the sequel they did on Emma. But there are some there's some dialogue in there that reflects this. So for example, when Joseph Smith gets the
revelation to build a temple and he comes Emma and he's like glma like the Lord is going to wants us to build a temple and her response is like
how like and he he was like we can do it you know and and she was like and she's like and how long did it take you to put up four walls because they had been building this home for this poor family.
Um, and that I people may think I'm being a little nitpicky there, but it is reflective of
this cultural epidemic that we've kind of included that the way you help is by nagging. The way you help is by being
the dream killer. The way you help is by being like, "That's nice, but let's be realistic. Like, you can't do that. Um, and you're doing this wrong. Can you
please like pick up your dirty socks for the six millionth time?" you know, and the more you again, this all of this
goes back to the attributes of Jesus Christ. Um, the way how does God help us? Does God sit there like a dripping
faucet? Just drip drip drip just tearing at you all day long, you know, like Greg, isn't that what it's like all day long? You just wake up and it's just like he just sits there nagging on you,
nagging like dripping. Like no, like how how is how does the Lord help? And so if
women truly want to become this rescuer, this title that is tied to an attribute
of God, um they have to understand how does how does Jesus Christ help us? And this goes into understanding honoring of
agency, longsuffering, patience, charity. You know, one of the top things if you go study words from the prophets, the counsel that they give over and over
to women is love your husbands. love, love, love. And
I I it seems simple, but it really does go back to the charity scripture. And it's all of those things. Charity um
suffers long, is kind, envys not, seeks not her own, you know, does not envy,
all of these aspects. And so a lot of this when you know people are like, "What's my role?" Well, a lot of it in
my life, the Lord has continually led me back to, you know, let's let's let's start understanding meekness. Can you can you can you become a meek person?
Let's understand what love is. Selfless is the more the older I get and the more I work with the Lord, the more I realize
he has so much of a higher standard of selflessness, of love and compassion than you ever think. Like sometimes you're like, is that a little overboard?
Like really? like [gasps] bite the tongue here. Yes. Yes. Bite the tongue there. Um and truly developing
that Christlike um attribute. But that's kind of getting into some of the details. But it from a big picture just kind of zooming out um 500 foot level.
The repeated council from Eliza Snow different prophets is the man the woman was made for the man. Again, that's
going to be a hot take right there. But um it's repeated repeated quotes. Um they they say the man was not made for
the woman. The woman was made for the man. That's direct prophet quote right there. Um in the sense of she's there to
to help and to aid and to support. Now with that um people are like okay so men
just sit on their thrones and right like just have servers everywhere you know to to at their beck and call. Um, it's
understanding what that man's mission is. You know, if if a woman's like, "Okay, I'm here. I'm supposed to help.
What what's he doing that I'm helping with?" And that is um I know I'm going a little bit long here, so if you want to interject with something, you're good.
You can or maybe I want to go over to Ephesians 5 because you know where we were at in Moses is really good where he's saying this is but you know, she shall be
called woman because she was taken out of man. Then it says, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife." Um that is a prophetic foreshadowing of the fall.
But to really understand that we got to go to the New Testament. Go ahead.
I would say also that that that is to me covenantal language. Uh as far as the separation, right? So you take
covenant has two parts. It is it is to separate first. You have to have a separation.
Covener is the Latin which means to come together. Mhm. But you have to have separation first.
And covenants were were in in Hebrew, the Jews, the Israelites, they didn't make covenants. They cut covenants.
Cut out bed. Circumcision.
Yeah. It's all cutting. And so, you know, Abraham, the Abrahamic covenant, he's slicing the animals in half and walking through the middle of them.
Um, when there were treaties made or anything, they might slit the throat of an animal. And and then there's the penalty that they would say at the end which is you know if if I don't follow
through on this may what happened to this animal happen to me basically and and so that separation of the rib right
from Adam is the separation of a covenant of marriage. Mhm.
There has to be a separation at least in the language, right? Yep. And then and then the cleaving. Yep.
Which is another interesting word because you have a cleaver. Mhm.
Which is actually the cutting like a knife and then to cleave is to cling and to to come back together. So So there's the separation and then there's the bringing
back together in an eternal marriage essentially.
And so it is covenantal. It's a covenant relationship right from the beginning.
Yes. Yes. And that is a perfect intro because what we're going to see in um Ephesians and is basically what you just described is the fall and the atonement.
Creation fall atonement cre um so creation fall and atonement right is not just the history of the world. It
happens in our individual lives. It it's the cycle of progression. It's how God takes an intelligence from something that is not godlike into transforms it
into something that is. And so you have men and women united. And you see this in some quotes from the prophets about
the premortal life. In fact, John Taylor talks about how he's he's addressing
the Relief Society women. And he tells them that in the premortal life, you made a covenant with a man who was going
to come here. Let me I should just get get the quote, but that the man that you're supposed to marry. Um so this is
from John Taylor's um the origin and destiny of women I think it is called and he talks he he's saying okay latter- day saint women in the premortal life
you were willing you wanted you were anxious to imitate your father and mother to obtain a body a resurrection exaltation and you made a covenant with one of thy
kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel you made a covenant with two others male and female that you'd be their child and
you also chose a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world and had permission to come to this planet and
take a tabernacle to be your head, stay, husband and protector on the earth and to exalt you in the eternal worlds. So
this is when you're talking about something that is united that is then separated. You have that happening
literally with celestial covenant marriages. Um, now of course this gets in the whole thing of like like
soulmates or like that that's that's not necessarily um what I'm talking about here more in
the sense of if you are a Latter-day Saint in the priesthood. Those priesthood covenants began in
premortality. This is something really taught in the temple. It's taught elsewhere by prophets. There's um co
covenants is something that began before and it continues to after. It's this binding thread. Um and I think there's a
lot more to be revealed about marriage covenants and where they started and this whole thing even with Adam and Eve.
Like it's very clear. I mean it's a metaphor in Eden, but it's very clear there's something that's united. It is then separated
and then the Lord commands Adam to cleave to her and to bring her back.
And that is where we're going to get with the fall and where the whole patriarchal order came from because it
actually started um with the fall. This is something Eliza Snow was really really emphatic on in Eden. She explains
that men and women were she uses the word equal on equal standing but because of the fall the woman that is when the
covenant for the woman to obey the husband began. It's and so this this corrects sometimes an idea where you know sometimes when I talk and and
people are like well that's all nice you know you're talking about this patriarch order that's for an ideal world that's not for a mortal like we're here in a
fallen world so there's exceptions to that and that is a misunderstanding not understanding that actually these laws
were given specifically for our fallen world and Eliza Snow teaches that by obedience by a woman filling her role
she will be enabled to overcome come that fallen condition and be restored as
a perfect equal. So every time you know there's this big thing about like oh equal partnerships and all of this I
always always am very fascinated where the adversary will come in and he'll start dripping ideas in that are rooted
in something that's true but it's missing the picture. And um so that's a whole another conversation like what
does that mean like with Eden, what changed and coming next. But um we'll try to stay simple here because this can
go a lot of areas. So Ephesians 5 is where Paul's teaching, let me just throw out this before we get into the New Testament because the minute you start
going into the New Testament, we have this big really big problem among some members of the church that are like, "Well, we don't believe that stuff in the New Testament, right? like that's
not translated correctly and or it's just cultural is it's just cultural. And something that's very important is when you study
latter- day prophets, they quote all of these verses. Joseph Smith quotes first Peter 3. The
authoritatively um Ephesians 5 is found elsewhere in other prophetic teachings.
um the I have not found a single prophetic statement disqualifying the New Testament teachings on marriage at all. If anything, the opposite.
So anyway, I I'll have that debate with anybody [laughter] who they want to, but we're we're going to believe in the New Testament today today. In fact, um Eliza Snow in one of her quotes on
the patriarchal order, she starts it out, we read in the Bible in which we believe da da da da. She uses the Bible to support what she's teaching the
women. Um, sorry, I know I'm going like a million different directions. Perfect.
Um, so this is Ephesians . This is the famous one. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as unto the Lord.
It's like, whoa. Okay. [gasps] Um, that's a little intense. So, let's keep going here. For the husband is the
head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church and he is the savior of the Bible. Okay. Of the body.
Of the body. Sorry. Yes. If we can if we can get over the knee-jerk
reactions and over and just just take a deep breath and just Okay. Yeah. Let me step back for one second. A few years
ago, I've never had a problem with the patriarch order, but a few years ago, I had an experience where I really felt
like the Lord was like, I really want to teach you what the new and everlasting covenant of marriage really is, and let's start like, and it's it's really that's when the temple came alive to me.
And before I had never studied like Abraham and the temple, and now I'm like, I get why all of you guys are so excited about [laughter] it.
[snorts]
Um, but I remember um, a couple months into just this study, I felt prompted to
open up DNC32. And a lot of people are all like, "That's just the plural marriage section." The majority of that section is not even about plural
marriage. Like, it is powerful. It's about calling an election and sealing keys and everything.
Um, but at the very beginning of that, the Lord says, "Joseph, you have a question." And then he says, "Prepare
yourself to receive the answer to this question.
Prepare your heart to receive it." Because he says, "If I teach this to you, you have to obey it." Um,
and that has come to my mind so many times when we are trying to study this.
If we go into this conversation with our minds already made up, with our body armor on, ready to like, no one's going
to take away my rights, you know, just like the the Lord can't can only teach us when we're really in that soft,
gentle, open position, the open the the open hands like I was talking about that letter in the word woman, that ready to receive, to just be like,
"Okay, my heart is prepared. Help me see this." If we approach the scriptures that way, we'll actually see that this
is beautiful, very beautiful and powerful. So, so here he says this is
the this is the model that marriage is supposed to reflect the relationship
between Jesus Christ and the church. And we sometimes love to talk about that when it's all about the husband laying
down his life for the wife. But sometimes we forget what is our relationship of the church to Christ. Like do we boss
Christ around? Do we challenge him? Do we nag him? Like I mean sometimes people do [laughter] have that relationship with God I guess. Um but it's supposed
to go both ways. But the reason for that is um
he this this goes back to um well let's let's keep reading here. So instead of me saying it, let's just have the scriptures say it. So he says,
"Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water
by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing that it should be holy without blemish."
So where this started was in Eden. And this is where we have to have the
conversation about what happened with Adam and Eve. Um, so
something that I have a big issue with is we are on this hatefest right now with Adam. It seems like where Adam is
Adam is the loser. Adam Adam is the bum that can't get his act together and figure out the plan and get the plan [clears throat] put into action. You know, yes, the pendulum is swung quite a bit.
Quite a quite a bit. right now. Let me say first off, I I love Eve. I respect
her. She is the queen of this earth. The pre, you know, Adam holds the keys of this earth. She is she is she's an
incredible, amazing woman. But we don't have to destroy Adam's character because Adam is
this is what I call one of the greatest love stories ever told. the true story if you read the story of in the temple
in the scriptures and um the words of the prophets Brigham Young the way he would expound and teach on the garden of Eden is Adam is a type of Jesus Christ
in the garden so Lucifer comes to Adam and is like Adam do this Adam's like no
not doing it and through that experience Adam proved his integrity and this is what Brigham Young said that this is why
Adam was put at the head because he proved that he would not disobey the father no matter what. Um Lucifer goes
to Eve and Eve was deceived. This is scriptural beguiled. Yes.
Book of Moses, Abraham, Genesis. Yes. And the temple.
Now what is that beguiling? Obviously we do not believe it in the sense of the evangelical Christians, right? that she
wanted to like I want to be better than God and you know [clears throat] this way they portray it it's this that's pride pridem
like it seems very and I mean if you have different insights on this please please share them I feel like it is a sense of um beguilement and the sense of
confusion of um and I do like some of the research understanding like if if you did dig into serpents and the
saraphim and luc Lucifer was essentially presenting himself as Jesus Christ, right? I believe that.
So, she's she's confused. I'm the God of this world.
Yes. She thinks she's doing the right thing, right? And you see this even in the temple where she's like, "You're my brother." Like trying to figure out,
she's trying to figure out what's going on. She makes the best decision that she can. when she is reunited with Adam,
that is the moment when the scales come down. And you'll notice this in the temple, she she does not recognize who
Lucifer is until she gets back with Adam.
And she's with Adam and something happens there where she turns around and is like, "Wait a minute, wrong guy." Um there's something very profound there about discernment.
um that that's something that can be pondered in the temple, but um something
that's not Yeah, I won't go I'm always trying to like where's the line where there's some stuff that was um in the temple before,
but there there were there were lines in the temple before that revealed that Satan's chief target was Adam, and he used Eve to get to Adam. In fact,
the his first response as soon as Eve partakes of the fruit is, "Okay, go get him." Like, "Go get him." Um, I think that goes back to the
premortal life. If you read Revelation um 12, Michael and his angels defeating Lucifer, like there is this battle that's been going on and Satan is like,
"I hate these priesthood leaders that cast me out before I will take them out." Um, well, and Adam's the one who led the
armies in the premortal world. He's he's out for him.
Yeah, he's out for him 100%. But like it says in Moses, Lucifer didn't understand the mind of God. He didn't understand this is actually a good plan. And like
Brigham Y Young said, we don't we didn't I do not fault Eve at all 100%.
[laughter]
Because she was willing to make that sacrifice like in her mind, she's trying to figure out what's the right thing to do. And can I give you my take on that?
Go for it. Yeah.
So I look at that and and and that's something that's been in that swing of the pendulum. Mhm.
It's it's put in as if she knew exactly what she was doing the whole time and she effectuated the the plan of salvation and Yep.
Uh but in every book of scripture, she's beguiled. Mhm.
And and that's repeated by prophets many many times.
So the way I look at it is there are two things that Satan says to her. Uh one is you'll become like the gods.
Okay, that's true. Yep. And and God confirms that afterward.
They become like us, right? [clears throat] And that's not a negative uh thing to desire, right? The evangelicals. Exactly.
Awful.
To attain godhood, right? Yeah. No, that's the righteous desire she has. Yeah.
And that's how she's beguiled because she has a righteous desire, right? She has this righteous desire and that maybe is instinctive and and and
etc. But the second thing he says is that ye you shall not surely die. Mhm.
And for me in in ancient language that's not just the mortal death. Yeah. Yes.
It's it's the spiritual death. You're going to be separated from God. There's going to be a fall. Yeah.
Essentially. And and what would enter at that time is what that means is that separation is judgment.
And so she's beguiled with that. That's the beguiling. She So, Satan uses her righteousness and her morality
and her her good choices, her good desires, her good desires and manipulates that. She doesn't realize the consequence.
She doesn't realize the consequence.
And so, and you can see this because there are characters that show up in the
account afterward that aren't there beforeh before the fall. And that's the cherubam.
Right? They show up after the fall in front of the tree of life protecting it.
That's the judgment.
That's the death. And and anciently even even in the Book of Mormon, they talk about uh the second death. Elma talks about the second death, which is the spiritual death, right?
And that's what happens.
So the the cherubam stand there in front of the tree as jud God's judgment. Yep.
Because now you know the difference between good and evil fully. Kind of like you've been given the law. And now you're responsible for it.
Yes. And you're not perfect.
So there's God's judgment that stands in front. So we will provide a savior. Yeah. To get through the cherubam.
Yes.
In order to get to the tree of life. So that that's how I Yes. Um, I love that you shared that because I was actually when um I was remembering that I had a prompting a
couple years ago that the beguilement was tied to that the the death, the separation, not realizing like, oh wait, now we have to fall.
Yeah. And this is not going to be pretty.
Yeah. [gasps] So her response with that notice is basically what h is happening is she's
going to Adam crying I'm sure saying please do this to
come with me I can't do this by myself he is he's playing a level um I'm trying
to use the right words so I can communicate what I'm trying to say because Jesus Christ is the savior But
the Adam or the husband or the man plays this salvific role as well. And this is what you're reading right here in
Ephesians 5. He's explaining this is why wives submit to your husbands because your husband has a responsibility to get
you home. In other words, that's why Adam partakes of the fruit. He he doesn't partake of it because
of the same reasons that Eve did. He's He does it. He They're having this conversation. He's and she's like, "You will be left alone, man." And and the father commanded you to stay with me.
The father commanded you to cleave with me. I'm going to hell. Like, please come with me. And he's like, "Yes, I will
follow you through no matter how dark it goes." This is like actually one of the most beautiful love stories in the
world. And we totally miss this. Um, and it it actually breaks my breaks my heart because you're missing
um men men now miss their role. What is their role in their wife's life? What is their role in their family's life? Why why are they going into the world and
trying to battle the evil and overcome it and conquer it? You know why? Well, because you have this mission to to
sanctify, to cleanse the world, a home for your children, for your wives.
You've got to get them home. you're responsible to get them home. Um, and this is this is a quote that's pretty
important to um, read on this. This is Brigham Y. Young 1861. It's in the complete discourses of Brigham Y. Young.
He says, "A few remarks on woman. She is the glory of the man, but she is not the head in all the creations of God pertaining to his children on this
earth. She is not accountable for the sins that are in the world. God requires obedience from man. He is Lord of
creation and at his hands the sin of the world will be required. Could the female portion of the human family fully
understand this they would see that they are objects of tender mercy and greatly blessed. That's what this is our what I was saying at the beginning like this is
a gift. This is the father saying okay you're not um and and it is suited to
roles and strengths. Men have strengths that you do not have. Yes, you have strengths that you don't have, but you are vulnerable in certain ways. And you
you need you need this. This is protection. Um we're and this is also plays out in the temple and the initiatories.
Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Um this no doubt on a casual view appears to my sisters a glorious do action for them. Some might
be tempted in their ignorance to take unwarranted liberties. And this is actually something I it kind of confused me. Eliza Snow when I was reading her discourses, she goes over and over like,
"Women, you are responsible to overcome your sins. You do need to repent." And I'm like, "Well, what's what's the
confusion? Why why were women at her time having a problem thinking she's like, you can't depend on your husbands for everything. You've got to get yourself together. You've got to learn.
You've got to have a relationship with God." And I was like, and then I realized, oh, it was because they were being taught this other aspect. and
they're like a happy day. Yay. Like he'll he has to do everything and he'll get me there.
Um so he's saying like that's not what we're saying. You can't just corrupt yourself with sin and then take doc take shelter under the doctrine that the man
is culpable for the sins they commit. He says interesting.
He says no. He says women must atone for sins committed by the valition of her own choice. So yes, if you go and do
something and you know it's wrong like you are accountable. we're still, you know, we still have accountability. Um, but he says, "But she will never become
an angel to the devil and sin so far as to place herself beyond the reach of mercy." So, this is a protection. This is a
shield. Um, that men have this other responsibility. [laughter] I'm sorry, I don't want it.
I'm grateful to be a woman. Um, and of course, there's so much to better understand what this all means. Um, but
I think this ties into why men are required to go on missions and women are not. Um, it's a it's an understanding of
um why God has things set up the way the why why God is like, "Okay, man, it's your job to go have dominion to go fight
these battles. Woman, it's your job to help him." Like, you know, he he has this extremely overwhelming burden. Adam
has this overwhelming burden to get his family back into the presence of God.
[gasps] That is heavy. He just needs help. He just needs some comfort. He's he's going to be fighting battles you
don't know. And and Brigham Young goes on to continue. He he talks about how women have more of this responsibility of the pain and suffering with
childbirth. and there he's like that that's unique to you but men have unique suffering you don't have so you each have different roles different
responsibilities um on this journey but this is then what Paul is going into where he's saying husbands you are like Christ you are
like Christ like this isn't just like a warm cozy little quote for a a meme on Instagram [laughter] right like this is
this is tracing back to Adam and Eve yes this is tracing back to Adam and Eve, he's he's like, "You have a responsibility to sanctify, to cleanse
her with the washing of water by the word." So, this goes into imagery of baptism and revelation. You're you have to get revelation for your home. Um that
he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy without blemish. So ought
men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. Um, we won't get into all of that like but there's a lot you could
say there. Um, but he says 31, for this cause shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall be joined unto his
wife. They two shall be one flesh. So he quotes that scripture from Genesis or Moses. I I personally feel this verse is
referring to Adam leaving Eden, leaving his father and mother, leaving the safety and the beauty of his home to
come with Eve to a fallen world to stay with her to then in that process redeem her and bring her back home. And he
I'm trying to think in that account where does it say that he's going to cleave to her? Um, it's right there at the creation of Eve.
Yeah. So, this is before the fall.
Before the fall. And I think that's why so it's it's it's it's uh uh what is the word I'm looking for?
It's not a premonition. It's a a foreshadow a foreshadowing of what is going to happen. I've never thought of that.
Yes. It's actually so beautiful. And that's what I think when Adam is sitting there making this decision like which
law of the father do I follow? going to leave God in a sense. He's leaving his father and his mother.
It was a sacrifice. He made a sacrifice for her.
And then Paul says, "This is a great mystery." Now, what do we understand mysteries are? Mysteries are things that
only the father can reveal to you like from the Doctrine Covenants definition.
So there are things that in you know in the temple and prayer between you and the Lord the Lord can teach you more things about this. But he says I speak
concerning Christ in the church. So he's saying there's Christ in the church.
There's your marriage. They parallel one one another. And the more you understand what Christ did, how Christ left his
father, how he condescended, how he took upon himself the pain and the suffering and the burdens of the world, he's like
that is the same thing that your husband is doing. and did do I I feel like there
is so much that we'd have forgotten about the premortal life that if we
could remember everything all of a sudden women would understand you know wait this is why I'm married to the man
that I'm married to this is why this is what he did for me this is and this is why you can have patience and so I want
to use with this the story of yeah go ahead so would we look at this then as in the premortal world we all accept this we've
made there was a quote you brought up that maybe I think it was Brigham Y Young that talked about these covenants almost that were made is that what it was a covenant
yeah yeah John Taylor John Taylor yeah and he he doesn't use the word covenant but he what's the word that he uses but
I think it's essentially covenant but keep going so so you would
in a way you're going through again in those in that circumstance you'd be going through the same thing as Adam and Eve. Mh.
In that time period in in the premortal world you're already going through that.
So you are Adam and Eve. So you are given you've gone through the same thing. So funny how it says consider yourself.
Yeah. consider yourself and and if you have made those covenants or promises
um then you're you're you're again you're just doing the same thing because you're going to go through the fall also.
We are we're in it.
Right. So you're already promising as a man that this is what I'm going to do for my wife.
Yes. Because notice the covenant of obedience is made in the garden.
It's not made in this world. So a lot of people think like oh okay like if I you know mar you you made this covenant
before this life and I'm okay I know today they're like oh I don't have to covenant to obey my husband. All you covenant is to obey the commandments.
Mhm. Yeah. These are them. This is the commandment.
But in it was just more clear. I'm going to say [clears throat] in the older version it was just more obvious. Well it was very straightforward.
Yep. It's it's like Jacob 4. The Lord takes away the plain things if people don't want it. Yeah.
Um but he the Lord tells Eve, he says, "If you will make this covenant to obey
Adam, then I will provide a savior for you." Jesus Christ is sacrifice is
this covenant of obedience and celestial marriage is a preerequisite to Jesus Christ atonement being activated in your
life. So there's a connection even there and I think that's something I want to better understand everything but it's it's right there in the text very clear and plain.
Yeah. So, Adam and Jesus Christ, they're kind of connected in this teamwork, team relationship of um saving Eve, and Eve is a type of
the church, but then individually, I think there's a lot and it's just so funny because we we go through, you know, I think a lot of
people question, well, why am I watching it used to the movie? Why am I watching this PowerPoint [snorts] on over and over
over and over again on the Garden of Eden?
17 minutesYes. [clears throat] Well, maybe this is why because you don't understand. We don't understand.
And the very basics of everything is found in that account. Yep.
And and we're still so far from it and it's so short and simple.
Yes. It's not just the principles. I cannot tell you the times that I have been in the temple and I'll be sitting there watching it and the Lord will give me a flash like this is what this means
to you personally. This is you know this is so yeah if there is one thing I can encourage with the temple is liken
yourself you this is your journey don't don't over simplify it to just being
like oh it's just this general story no this is your story and and the reason why I think this is important is because respect is often tied to gratitude
and so why why does your husband why why are you commanded to love and respect your husband husband. Why? Why does God
command you to do that? It's not just because he's a man. It's not just because his DNA is different than yours.
You [laughter] know, it's because there's things that he did. There's things that he will be asked to do that
the Lord knows. And and when you begin to understand those, I think the natural result is just gratitude where you're
like, "Wow." Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like this is the price and the the path of hardship you're willing to go through for me. Absolutely, I'm willing to be
patient with you. Absolutely, I'm willing to love you and submit to you and and listen to you and and and follow.
It's interesting here at the end then in verse 33, the last thing. Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular so love his wife
even as himself and the wife see that she reverence her husband. There is social
research on this um that that says love and respect. Yes.
Yeah. Men crave respect and women crave love.
Y and that goes right along with that verse. Yep.
So um with this I just want Can I say one more thing?
Absolutely. Go. So the the the Christopherson, Elder Christopherson
repeated this uh uh back in a talk. It was a general conf general priesthood talk I think in 2016. I want to say it might have been 2012, but he he he
repeated the idea of women are born women. Mhm.
And and men become men, right? and and and so I think that part of this is as
far as like respect from a wife to a husband
it probably it's like faith okay I'll put some faith forward but ultimately it also has to be earned
right it has to be earned as well that that uh uh respect is not it should be maybe there are things that were already
done in the premortal world and there should be an understanding of that. But I think that that that also is important to understand. Are you
living a life that would be more Christlike?
Where you are able then to be in a position to call it spiritual law naturally be a leader for your wife and your children.
Right.
Yes. And I think I think absolutely I think also on the flip side of that too is if we get too far into the
conversation of who starts first, you know, like I'll respect him when he's respectable. Well, what if he in turn said I'll love her when she's
lovable, you know, like what what if your husband was like, I'll love you when you're lovable, and I'll love I'll love only
the parts of you that are worth loving, right?
No woman wants [laughter] like no. And again, that does not Jesus Christ. Why do we love Christ? We love him because he first loved us. Because
he was willing to love when we were completely unlovable. He was willing to lay down his life and suffer and bleed when we didn't deserve squat, you know?
And so, um, again, like we're not talking about cases of abuse. We're not talking about if you're physically unsafe and criminals and stuff like
that, but we're talking about um bringing also that out of a man. And
this is where um I am going to give a shout out. There's this lady named Tilly Deah. She's um she she has two podcasts.
She was on the culture apothecary. It's one of Turning Point USA's podcasts. And on um wifehood, she she has the something she calls the wife school.
It's a six-week course. It's absolutely phenomenal. She she goes through the scriptures. She's she's not LDS, but it's absolutely phenomenal. But she just
goes through the scriptures of being like, "Okay, woman, as a wife, like you are to model Christ." And again, this is
it it first Peter 3 like first Peter 3 talks about, you know, even if your husband is struggling, how do you help bring him to the Lord? And it is by
modeling gentleness and meekness and honor and respect and chastity which I
read is like loyalty you know. Um and uh Peter teaches this is Peter in this
case that that is the Lord will work through you to bring him back to the Lord. So even if you have a a man who is
in a rebellious state who isn't obeying the Lord, this is how you win him back.
And it's not through words. Very specifically, and Joseph Smith actually quotes this passage. This is the famous passage where Sarah called Abraham Lord.
And and Peter says, "You will be counted as Sarah's daughters if you follow her example and are not afraid." Not in
terror. other translations because a lot of times the first response of a woman like coming into this is like it is
scary to put yourself into the hands of someone who is fallen, right? Because like the here here's the reality again.
We can talk about this like oh this is such a beautiful picture if it's Christ who's perfect.
If it's Yeah. There's the ideal and then there's reality and how do we close that gap?
Right. 100% of temple goers today are fallen. like you're not going to find a man out there that is perfect. Guess
what? You're not perfect either. Um, so it's this this understanding of trust
and putting faith in God. And I feel like this is a call. These teachings are
a call for women in the church to build their faith. A lot of times we talk about having faith, but when you I don't
know, just over and over, I was talking to my sister about this yesterday. I was like, the more I live, the more I'm like, "Oh, this is what faith is. This
is that faith we're talking about in the scriptures, right?" And and first Peter 3 is all about you can't let Satan conquer you with fear. He's going to use
fear. He is going to use fear to get women to break their role. That that's how he's going to work. And I can
promise you that is how he's going to use it. And it's you got to have the faith in God over fear. And it's when
you have faith that's when miracles um unbound. Um I don't know how much time
we have. There are two things that I would like to share. Do you have Okay.
One is with this whole conversation I want to bring in the beauty of the beast uh fairy tale and I want to use the
original. So if you go read like the original long like it's almost like a novel. It's long. Um, Madame Deer,
[laughter] I'm trying to remember the name of the author. Um, but in the original Beauty and the Beast story, it's actually very beautiful and
powerful. So, we we we all know the story. Um, the Disney version's got tons of feminism.
Feminism isn't. We could break that down another time. But, um, in the original, you know, Beauty comes to this castle and every night that she's in the
castle, Cers, she meets the beast. She's terrified of him. this like you know and and he asked her the first night like could you love me like could you could
you marry me? [laughter] No way. Are you kidding me? That is crazy. No way. I have compassion on you but absolutely not. Um but every night
she this um this fairy comes to her in this dream and gives her these dreams of this be this handsome amazing incredible
prince. So every night she's having these dreams showing her about this incredible man and she falls in love with this guy. She's just like, I just
got to find this guy. Like, who where is this guy? I want to marry him. You know, and every night it's the fairy that's
giving her the dream or the prince in the dream says, "Beauty, help me.
Beauty, break my enchantment. Don't judge by appearances.
Don't judge. Don't things are not as they appear. Things are not as they seem." And she's like, "What does that
mean? Like, is he like hidden in a dungeon like here in the castle? Is he like hidden somewhere and I got to find him.
She's missing the message, right? And of course, you kind of know the end of the story, so we already know what's going on. And every day she spends all day
with the beast and she just dies to go to bed at night so she can have the dream of the real guy, right? [laughter] Not realizing that she's been being
given these dreams by this fairy. And then in the end of the story, she finds out actually that the fairy is either her mother or her aunt, that her family
was not really her family. She she was adopted and she comes from this royal bloodline and that the beast like in the Disney
movie and I hate that they like did this. In the Disney movie, the prince becomes a beast because he's mean to that old woman and so he's cursed.
That's not in the original story. In the original original story, he's battling evil. He is battling
um the the demon or the witch or whatever. And in that battle, he comes
under this enchantment, not because of his own sin. So again, I I feel like the whole Beauty and the Beast story is really this allegory that is tied very
much to the fall. It's Adam, who's this amazing prince and king who in the battle with Lucifer has to go
through this enchantment. And it is when the woman is able to see
the reality. Don't judge by appearances, right? Like and and I do I do um the
rose isn't in the the rose is in the Disney. It's not in the original, but I do like the the element that they brought into the rose because I feel like the rose is all a symbol of the
atonement and it's this passing of time and all of this this hardened exterior.
So I the anyway the whole poem I want to do not poem the whole fairy tale I want to do a full breakdown of it because it is
packed with stuff like you're reading it and you're just like I really wonder if some of these were original temple dramas actually is my gut feeling on a lot of the fairy tales cuz so many of
them um Sleeping Beauty Cinderella it's just like there's too much stuff that you're just like yeah know this is all Israelite and
doctrinal like stuff in here um but to bring that to this whole situation if you understand
the real story of Adam and Eve which is your story which is your marriage and it
in the real nitty-gritty like sometimes you are married to the beast right he's married to a beast too you
are not the same person you were before um but it but I I love that I feel like in that story the the dreams is like a
parallel to spiritual experiences that we can have where the Lord can show you like this is who he really is. Okay, yeah, he's struggling in this area, but
understand he's going through this because he is carrying the weight of the world. And that weight of the world, the sins of the world, it's it's nasty and it does things to you that are not nice.
Um, and your mission is to be like beauty, to help to love even what seems maybe unlovable.
Um, and by that means true celestial marriage going both ways. That's how Satan's power is broken. We live in this
world where Satan is everywhere [gasps] and it just seems like he has way too much power and we're wondering like what can we do to turn the tide. I think it
actually this is a huge fundamental big piece. And to back that up, I just wanted to read this one quote because
I'm like I could summarize it, but um Brigham Young kind of um likens this. He was speaking to women who were saying
like, "Oh, like I just like I can't stand like my husband. Like it just I hate who he is." Um and he says this beautiful wife. Oh. Oh, here it is.
Okay. He says, "If the disaffected wife," because he had these women who were coming to him and were like, "Yeah, my husband's not like committing
adultery, but I just I just don't love him. Like, I just can't love his personality. I just I just can't do this." And he said, "If this disaffected
wife could behold the transcendent beauty of person, the god-like qualities of the resurrected husband she now
despises, her love for him would be unbounded and unutterable. Instead of despising him, she would feel like
worshiping him. He would be so holy, so pure, so perfect, so filled with God in his resurrected body, there will be no
disaection of this kind in the resurrection of the just. Um, could disaffected ones see visions even of the
future glorified state of their husbands? Love for them would immediately spring up within you, and no circumstance could prevail upon you to
forsake them. And so I think that is we just need a little bit more grace and
mercy and love in our culture. That's what really all this comes down to. You know, we can get into nitpickies of like, okay, what does submission mean
and what does this look like and how do we reconcile a disagreement and who has the final veto power? And at the end of the day, the biggest and most important
aspect of all of this is be like Christ. And marriage is for a
woman and I'm this will be the same for the man, but I'm going to speak for the women. Marriage is the best place where you can learn how to become like Christ.
It is where you are going to learn how to wash the feet better than anywhere else. It's where you're going to learn how to love Christ in with charity
better than anywhere else. It's where you're going to learn how to not to be selfish. It's where you're going to learn how to have self-control and self-discipline. Um, but there's a quote Hebrew C. Kimble. I won't take the time
to read it, but he says he promises the women, he says, "If you will follow the law of obedience, if you will follow the laws of submission," that's the context.
He says, "I promise you, you will have visions, you will have dreams, you will have spiritual experiences like you've never had before. This is um the Lord
will bless you, you know, and um I think that's probably why I like that so much in the Beauty and the Beast story because I'm just like it's it has all these elements and it's so beautiful.
Sometimes it's hard, but I feel like if we can pray and have the spirit help us to see things the way they really are,
um, again, it's it's just beautiful and it's powerful. Yeah. Wow. Well, appreciate all of that.
That's it's in in a world where, you know, it seems like we're getting divided more and more between, you know,
it's it's hard because when I come up with these topics or we talk about anything to do with men and women or marriage, it's it's there's, you know,
it's the right message, but there and so many people agree with it, but there are some that are, well, yeah, but the women and some are like, no, yeah, but the men,
you know, and that's not going to work. Yeah.
It doesn't work that way. [music] You can't just be right. Yes.
You know, you you you there is an order to things and uh the man is nothing without the woman and
the woman is nothing without the man ultimately. And and so anything that can help with that I think is a positive. But it's great stuff.