Cade Alvey is a student at BYU and co-host of the YouTube Channel, All Those In Favor, who has his ear to the ground. He says things are changing at BYU.
wokeness on campus i've got a BYU
student I interview here Kaden Alvie who
says that it has turned That the new
policies and procedures that BYU has put
into place the last couple of years has
made a difference But before we get to
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[Music]
All right welcome to Quick Show My name
is Greg Matson and I am your host In
this episode we bring on BYU student
Cade Alvie Cade How are you doing doing
fantastic Stoked to be here All right
Awesome Well welcome Uh
right to it in this question Is BYU
conquering its wokeness
that is a that is an excellent question
And so the reason I I suspect I'm being
asked this question is because I just
transferred to BYU from UVU Uh so I'm
I've done two semesters at BYU now and I
mean like I' i've seen a lot of reports
and I've seen him for a long time that
maybe made me a little bit nervous like
that that keep the faith at BYU group
that was picking up a bunch of steam and
so I was a little bit weary when I went
into BYU and I I I don't know if I can
say much about the meta the I can't make
like a meta analysis of what's going on
at the university but I can say that
just from an individual student level It
was everything I could have asked for
from for a an educational experience I
my professors were honest and they were
fair Um a couple of them in confidence
revealed their political views to me and
you would have never guessed that based
on their instruction Their instruction
represented both sides of the debates
that were that we were having extremely
fairly and extremely well and the the
family proclamation was upheld in many
of my classes and the gospel principles
were brought in to sort of to to support
and to kind of supplement a secular
education And so and the question to the
question you asked is a lot more direct
than what I'm able to to provide as like
an on the ground student but I think it
is a remarkably fair and politically
diverse campus and I've been just
astounded at how how well they're
implementing everything
So you know one thing you said there in
in terms of you know teaching the
proclamation that's that's something
that I think has always been there to
some degree but it weakened for quite a
while And and I think people were afraid
to bring it up It it is it is still even
in church right it's a lightning rod
sometimes to bring that up because there
is a spectrum of where people stand with
that and how they interpret it and it
brings up some controversial issues and
and so that's really good to hear I I
think that's an important thing and I do
know that one of the changes that was
made there at BYU in fact they really
enforced it fully I think this year the
beginning of this year was in their
hiring practices and annual interviewing
process is is it is a litmus test and
I've been saying that for years you've
got to make the family proclamation a
litmus test because that's going to
usually
uh
it's going to weed out those that are
going to be supporting ideologies that
are are contract contary to the gospel
So so that that's a great thing Go ahead
I was just going to say that the context
in which that that happened it was so
I'm a philosophy student I probably
should have mentioned that So I mean
usually our department is far worse than
any others when it comes to uh
secularizing So in in my philosophy
class I my professor I I just for safety
I won't like reveal his name or anything
like that but he was a wonderful
lecturer like absolutely fantastic And
he was another one of those guys You
never knew what his view was whether he
was describing free will versus
determinism He would describe it
extremely well And you would never know
if he believes this or not because he's
so well at describing and explaining
even views that he disagrees with And in
the last few units we were discussing um
like John Stewart Mills and uh Markx and
we were reading in Markx and he he
talked about how Markx was very
uninterested in having a mother's day He
said that you shouldn't have a mother's
day you should have like a parents day
to kind of remove the the bounds of the
family in order to kind of make everyone
more communal Obviously that was his
goal and and for the first time in the
whole class he said like and this is
probably going to be really really
interesting to some people because if
you believe in the family proclamation
which I do this is going to extremely
this is going to bother you and it
bothers me and I thought that was really
cool to see him step up against against
that and and give his his unfiltered
take and and he did a number of things
that I just was blown away by like the
um we we started studying Saurin
Kirkagard who's this uh existential
philosopher who's very got some very
interesting takes on on religion and and
ethics A lot of Christians love him Yeah
a lot of Christians love him which kind
of surprises me because he's very he's
very not Christian sometimes But so
before we started talking about that he
he did a a reading assignment that he
called inoculation
And before the philosophy of religion
unit he he didn't assign a a text He
didn't assign a a an old book or
anything like that He assigned two
general conference talks about
philosophies that we should that that
that the prophets and apostles have
warned us to stay away from and to be
that is so wonderful to hear What what
were the talks what would you remember
pull them up and send them to you so you
can put them in the in the description
But uh one was from DH Oaks Um and he
talks about avoiding moral relativism
and like nihilism kind of saying that
there's like no purpose to to life and
uh saying that there is no absolute
moral truths So and and those are the
two that I can remember off the top of
my head But one of the other talks was
also fantastic just about avoiding the
the certain philosophies and and and
obviously everything else was fair game
Like we we talked about atheism We
talked about materialism like the view
that there's only material things would
like things that are controversial as a
Latter-day Saint like that like you're
talking about atheism in the BYU church
school and he did it fairly and he did
it well and yeah and he should and he
did an excellent job And then when it
came to uh when it came to Markx and the
family and when it came to the the
philosophy of religion unit he stepped
up and he assigned us excellent reading
materials and excellent uh inoculations
as it were and he he he gave his un
unadulterated opinion and and I
shouldn't say that it was just when the
family obviously he'd step in and give
his issues with the arguments for
atheism or or whatever just as he would
the arguments for theism but it was just
it Awesome So awesome Yeah that's great
education You know I I when I you know a
couple years back when things did get
you know especially during co when
things did kind of looked kind of grim
with some some especially the humanities
departments Um you know I used to get
some feedback from BYU professors that
were a little more on the radical side
and it would be and some of them I met
personally and went to lunch with them
right up in Provo But it's they they
would say "Look do you don't believe in
an education you think they should als
you know the kids should always be
sheltered The college kids should always
be sheltered and you don't want to open
up these other ideas." And I was like
"No I don't care about that That's not
the point I do think you need to talk
about the philosophies I do think you
need to talk about atheism I do think
that in an interfaith class you go out
and you talk about the other religions
and what they believe and show the
positives of all of these things." That
is a and thinking of the term in its
classical sense that is a liberal ed
education that opens things up and gives
you a view of things But then you need a
professor
that is guided by faithfulness
and doesn't have an alternative agenda
to put It's kind of like this You know
you'd go through a philosophy class and
and you have you have a a uh a professor
that all of a sudden would say "Okay now
I know we're talking about Markx Let me
tell you about Markx This is my favorite
and this is what I believe in and this
is what I believe all of you should be
doing." Right and and what you get is
that in other classes that type of a
thing I'm using it as a sort of metaphor
for other other classes especially in
humanities And that's what you would get
with these with these professors where
they would take a stance
oftentimes against the family
proclamation oftentimes against
principles of the gospel and and start
leading
leading students down a different path
But you haven't experienced any of that
not at all Like I I I cannot explain how
awesome it's been And I and I came from
UVU So like I was almost done with my
degree at UVU and I made the the
controversial choice to switch over to
BYU which we can probably talk about If
you're interested we can talk about why
I did that But the is it UVU I would
never complain about my education UVU It
was absolutely fantastic Um on my
mission I went to West Texas and I was
my eyes were open to what Protestantism
was like And then I got home and I
started studying philosophy at UVU and I
was one of two theists in the whole
entire department that I was aware of
And the other one wasn't even religious
Yeah So that's not even even in Orum
Provo That's not surprising
Yeah Yeah Was that like is that is that
what uh triggered you to kind of make
the move
yeah that was a big part of it That was
a big part of it Um and I'm so grateful
that I was able to really understand
secularism and atheism and people who um
lose faith A lot of them were former
members of the church So I I I was
really exposed to another side of things
that I'm able to understand and
appreciate in a way that I wasn't Um but
Elder Holland gives this devotional
where he he talks about BYU as a school
being the fulfillment of a prophecy and
he he talks about this this instance
where they were they were just a
struggling college and they they're
deciding on if they should sell off
portions of the land that they own in
order to um in order to to sort of make
ends meet and pay the bills And I can't
remember I'm trying to remember who it
was It's it's his name is escaping me
now but um one of the early leaders of
BYU stands up and he shares this
visionary experience he has where he he
looks into the future almost as as the
sun is rising over the Salt Lake Valley
and he can see a a a beautiful
university up on the hill where people
are walking into hundreds of buildings
when they at the time they just had two
buildings or something And he said they
knew they were students cuz they were
carrying books in their hands And when I
was uh so I in in my philosophy degree
I'm really interested in philosophy
religion and ethics and epistemology And
there's this uh club at BYU the BYU
faith and reason club that they had just
founded and they asked me to go um give
a presentation at this club on uh ethics
and the restored gospel like how we
should view ethics and how that plays
into apologetics and how a lot of our um
critics are very how they have some
contradictory views on ethics especially
when they're critiquing the church from
an ethical point of view But it's beside
the point because when I was going up to
this presentation I I just kind of saw
myself in the place of those those
students that were walking up the hill
in Elder Holland's talk and I just could
not get out of my mind the thought of
going to BYU and being able to openly
and freely express my religious views
and not having to be stealthy about it
And
so I I I applied got in My wife goes
there so it also makes things a little
bit easier But the the experience has
just been absolutely fantastic Like the
in my first economics class I got in
there and the professor like day one
said that like taxes were bad because
like if you want to maximize the uh the
amount of wealth in the nation taxes
decrease the amount of wealth And I was
I was like looking over my shoulder like
you guys hear that he just said taxes
are bad That is crazy That is bonkers
That's not allowed He shouldn't be able
to say that And it's and all my classes
were just absolutely fantastic So what
you're saying is based on your your your
experience and I know that the same
thing I've talked to a lot of ASU
students here and and that have gone
through philosophy classes and is that
you feel there there's it's almost like
you're you know there there is a sense
of kind of a cancel culture there where
where if you speak up too much about
religious views and use that as a as
your own context for the philosophies
that are being taught in class that that
is kind of a no no and you shouldn't
bring that up You might be ridiculed
might be uh you know that the the
professor might specifically
uh uh give a a retort that is un
unpleasant uh for you and and make you
look bad and uh but yet you go to BYU or
religious school and and yet they're
going to talk about atheism They're
going to talk about all the philosophers
They're going to talk about what they
actually think Most of them are not
religious and and open that up so that
you've got a point of a viewpoint of
both Correct
Yeah And so at UVU at least it was just
a little bit different Uh I wouldn't say
it was like a cancel culture but it was
like you would I would get very serious
push back for for religious opinions And
not that it was like they were
attempting to to silence my opinion or
anything like that which I don't know
necessarily what um like what we're
defining as cancel culture here hard to
have a typical philosoph philosopher's
answer but I I would get very serious
push back and I'm super grateful for it
because it made me a lot more able to to
defend my own views and to make a lot
more sense of my own views But it it I
definitely was in the minority and I was
in the minority in sharing opinions in
class and it and my professors would
push back on it and other students would
push back on it and in private
conversations after and before class my
classmates would push back on it So
absolutely I I feel like it's been a
much more balanced education at BYU Not
to say that UVU wasn't great or anything
like that but the the experience at BYU
is just it's unmatched It's been amazing
How do you see your experience and and
education and philosophy there
uh helping you in your testimony because
that's usually not the case and and
preparing you for the future
oh that's a great question Um
so I would say that this that my my
study in philosophy has given me the
tools to navigate difficult questions
within my faith whereas before I feel
like I was kind of uh a drift almost and
just being well-versed in philosophy and
how people have handled life's biggest
questions and just seeing examples of
that over and over and over and being
able to to contextualize these
seemingly minor questions that I have in
my own faith journey with the the
biggest questions of all time is it's
really enlightening And in one of my
classes it was the it was first day and
he he put up that DNC scripture where he
says uh where it says learning wisdom
from the best books And he he pulled up
our reading list which was like Decart
and like just all the all the greats
from the early modern period and he said
these these are the best books We are
seeking wisdom from the best books
Interesting We are we are listening to
prophetic counsel when we study how
these great thinkers and great men were
able to navigate these questions And I I
I resemble that entirely in my own view
I I feel like reading and understanding
logical reasoning and and these amazing
men that were writing and and thinking
for centuries about stuff that we're
only still now just figuring out It it's
it's inspiring and it gives you the
tools to navigate problems in your own
faith walk
Yeah Yeah I think and I think that's
very true and again that's the that's
the idea of education the way it should
be without taking an agenda because you
can take negative thinkings from Dart
You can go through through Hegel and
Kant and all the way back Rouso all the
way back and you're going to see a lot
of bad stuff especially through the
continental area but it's it it's still
important to learn it and and you know
we live in an age today Kate I think
where you know I I think that Latter-day
Saints have been put into a culture
where we kind of just we become very
myopic and this is our religion
everybody everybody else and every other
idea is outside of us and and so this is
just all we have right here and if
anything comes in that's really bad um
where the opposite I think is true and I
think that what we need to do instead of
looking at everything as a threat is
understand it with a faithful eye right
and so we take in the education we learn
about it we actually can help others
that way that may absorb some negative
philosophies and some nihilism and and
uh and and help them in those in that
regard and be able to articulate things
because your information that you're
learning that is positive in your
philosophy classes and from your
professors
is of no value I don't I don't or it's
of a lot less value if you don't have
the context of the things that are
negative or or different in in their
approaches to certain questions
because you can't articulate it as well
right you've got to have what's what's
inside and what is good and righteous
and true And you have to understand what
is outside that circle also Oh yeah And
and that's why I mean I'm so grateful
for Latter Day Saint content creators
like yourself And that's part of the
reason why Baylor and I with all those
in favor are doing what we're doing is
because for a long time I would um I I
would go to my philosophy classes and
scarcely hear a
I mean I every time I heard a
philosophical idea I would kind of have
to create my own scaffolding for how it
meshes with my faith and kind of see
where it where it plays well and where
it doesn't play well And the only place
where I would be able to learn about any
of these ideas like the rejection of the
family for example is on uh on quick
media or on uh Jacob Hansen's channel or
something like that So just if there is
if there is anyone listening that is
kind of like me maybe they're going to a
more secular school or in a more secular
department just uh just know like all
those in favor we're here Greg Madson's
doing his thing there's people out there
that are that are talking about these
important issues and they're doing it in
order to educate but with like you said
the lens of faith I think that's a great
way to put it So let me back up Let's
talk about this a little bit Um you've
got a YouTube channel that's called All
Those in Favor I've seen several of the
episodes are very good very well done
Both the commentary and the interviews
What What inspired you to start the
channel and how long ago did you start
it
so we started six months ago and
I think we I mean it was a culmination
of things that kind of led us to
actually get it done but
Baylor and I were really annoyed with
the the public perception of the church
online And we both had these experiences
where like growing up in high school we
had these intellectual questions about
our faith and we just didn't really have
the resources to answer them And like
people like fair were existent and
interpreter and they do amazing work but
it just didn't reach us Like it doesn't
reach the the younger generation doesn't
reach the high school age kids And so a
big reason that we started our channel
is because we want to make public and
accessible the best possible reasons for
faith and to do so in a way that every
every audience and every age group can
can understand and and just it can reach
them So that's like our mission
statement after we uh after so we had a
video blow up really early on It was
like our first video started going
really fast and we we didn't expect to
have to deal with anything that quick
and we were like okay we got to go
figure out what we're actually doing
here before we keep going forward And we
went to a little sports bar by my house
and we wrote down on our document we
wrote down make public and accessible
the best possible reasons for faith So
that's that's our goal That's all of our
all of our motives signed up and summed
up in one statement
So do you think how give me an idea of
how
do you have uh negative comments people
that are against the church that come in
and comment on your on your videos yeah
absolutely How do you how do you handle
that
um we're still trying to figure that out
what what our best uh method of going
about things is because for we're still
responding to quite a few of them and we
try and do it in a in a in a way that's
cordial and and respectful without
letting it ruin our lives because
there's just so many of them But they're
we our goal is really to just not allow
like uncontested
slam dunks like we don't want
individuals to come along and leave
something in our comment section that
someone who's maybe struggling with
their faith uh just scrolls along in the
comment section and finds and is
troubled by it That's the last thing we
want So and hopefully we we'll get to
the point where we have a content
library that addresses criticism so we
don't have to be dialoguing as much in
in negative comments But the negative
comments are absolutely there And if you
make any like no matter who you are if
you make content about the church you're
going to see negative comments that that
come your way It's just just part of the
game So for you you feel responsible for
the comment section
I I almost do in a way I I I don't feel
com or I don't feel um responsible for
what ends up in my comment section but I
I do feel responsible to get a faithful
perspective out on certain comments that
may be troubling to people who who come
across them Okay I'm still trying to
figure it out after seven eight years
here I I I uh I I am by nature a fighter
so I want to go in sometimes and just go
at it I've done it too many times
Usually what happens is my wife reads
all of my comments and all the comments
on every video I don't I don't have the
time She'll go through and she'll read
everything and then she'll she'll be the
one that comes back and said "You have
to delete that You have to take that out
or you have to change that." So I've got
kind of someone checking me a little bit
when I when I when I say things that I
shouldn't And so that that's a big help
for me But usually I it just depends on
what it is Sometimes I I don't have the
time to engage online in a comment
section where I'm going to end up with
20 comments back and forth trying to
explain that uh you know Joseph Smith is
not a pedophile or something like that
It's just it's it's very difficult for
me to manage And what do I do do I just
leave it do I do I challenge it strongly
to begin with uh you know there's a lot
of things there that because usually at
least at the point of my platform those
are people with an agenda that are
typically not questioning something even
though they might start that way They're
they've got an agenda to try and get as
much of their negative content in the
comment section as possible
Yeah So it's still tough So I'm
Yeah it's it's an ongoing battle and
it's it's hard to figure out We have had
some success uh reaching out to people
privately If someone is kind of having a
heyday in our comment section we'll say
"Hey send us a DM and let's chat." And
usually they're a lot more uh when
there's no public audience they're a lot
nicer And uh we've had some great
conversations with people sent out a
couple Book of Mormons um books of
copies of the Book of Mormon I don't
know how you say a plural Book of Mormon
but uh the Books of Mormon that that's
been a Yeah I don't know
Yeah So so what has your favorite
episode been so far
oh that's a great question I uh
I really our our interview with Carrie
Mulestein was fantastic So much fun Um
and then we did a we did a video
responding to an Orthodox priest which
was fun because I I love the the
abstract the theological issues Like we
we can sit there and talk about Book of
Mormon translation I'll be my brains
will be bored off But if we're talking
about like theology God's foreign
knowledge anything that's a lot more
abstract and most people don't care
about that's my that's my niche Um but
I'd say probably my favorite episode so
far is one that we haven't released yet
We just did an interview with one of the
leading cult scholars of the world He
studies new religious movements and I
had a conversation with him this week
that we're going to be posting hopefully
this weekend and he goes into the the
the just the empirical literature on
what something means or what does it
what does it mean to be a cult and he
also goes into brainwashing and he's
very very antagonistic to to both
concepts He says the word the word cult
is basically just a it just throws
people off these days Doesn't mean
anything anymore We use the word new
religious movement So anyone saying cult
is probably just digging up old 70s and
80s psychological jargon that has been
discredited for years and brainwashing
is a topic that he was also very
passionate on He said that certainly
doesn't exist That just was picked up by
evangelicals in the 70s So that I'm
really excited for people to hear that
episode because that's one of the most
common comments we get is is that is it
a Latter Day Saint guest uh no he's not
a Latter Saint He is a uh he that's
better he is not a religious person and
he Okay He's an excellent scholar So it
was it was an awesome interview I'm
really excited That's great That's great
Um well where do people find you then is
there anywhere else you guys have a
website or anything else um we have an
Instagram and we have a Facebook so
people can go follow us there We're
working on getting a Tik Tok and even
though I I hate Tik Tok So we'll be uh
we'll be hopefully doing a website and
the and all the rest of the platforms
but right now it's just Instagram
YouTube and Facebook And uh our
Instagram has picked up the most
traction YouTube's also doing well but
we're we're happy to have anyone
wherever they're they're willing to
follow us
Very cool So on YouTube it's all those
in favor We'll put a link in the
description box so that people can go
over and catch your new episode coming
out soon on Colts which I would be
fascinated with So I'll be sure to watch
that But anyway Kate really appreciate
your time Great stuff I wish you all the
luck in the world uh there at BYU And
maybe uh down the road here we'll we'll
get you back on the show Perfect I'd
love to Thank you so much for having me
on Uh Quick is a a legendary outlet and
I I'm super grateful for it Thank you
