Did Charlie Kirk Ignite Christianity? How Some Evangelical Leaders See the Grand Blanc, MI Shooting

Del Tackett was Senior Vice-President at Focus on the Family and served in the George W. Bush administration. He talks about how he sees the effects of Charlie Kirk's assassination and the LDS shooting in Grand Blanc, Michigan.

 Raw Transcript

I really like Dell Tacket. I've done several episodes with him. We did an entire series of his seven threats to
society. Uh a couple of years ago, Dell is an influential evangelical
Protestant. He was uh vice president of Focus on the Family. He served in the
George W. Bush administration and just a great all-around guy. I've got a lot of respect for him. In this episode, we
talk about Charlie Kirk and its effects on Christianity, the ripple effect
effect after his assassination and what that has done. Has it changed much? What
is the status of Christianity today in the United States? And how has this affected it? Uh, this episode is brought
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All right, welcome to Quick Show. My name is Greg Matson and I am your host. In this episode, we bring back my good
friend Dell Tacket who worked in the George W. Bush administration was former
is former senior vice president uh at focus on the family and did a full series with me of his seven threats in
our times a couple of years ago. Dell, welcome back to the show. Greg is an honor to be back with you.
Appreciate it. So, I want to go over some pretty important things here. I think you know a couple weeks back we had um Charlie Kirk's death at the
university at Utah Valley University in Utah. And um man, this is it it feels
like one of those moments, Dell, where where it changed the world. I mean,
you've got not just the United States and and and these this outpouring of of
activity and filling stadiums and vigils and but but you see it even in Europe
and Australia and all, you know, people putting up pictures of Charlie and where does that come from, do you I
mean, obviously, he's a he's a high-profile figure, but this is really
this is really something. Well, it is. Uh, and uh, of course, the
the way that Charlie was murdered, I think, plays into that a little bit. Um,
I mean, to be to be assassinated, the way he was assassinated, I think, uh,
stirs people up as well. Um I I I don't know yet, Greg. I don't
know whether this is something that uh is going to be sustained or not. the,
you know, in a true revival, the it is a sweeping of the spirit of God that moves
in people and uh and it drives people back to Jesus and that he is the focus
of that uh that revival. And so I think we have yet to see
whether or not that is what's happening here. There is no doubt that it has
stirred people. It has moved people. It moved me. Uh the the loss of Charlie in
that way. Uh but as you just said, you know, uh there are these things
happening really to some extent we might see all over the world. And there
pictures of Charlie uh being put up and I think that um that may be a sign that
we have to be a little cautious to say, okay, what is happening here? Because I can guarantee you that if the revival is
for Charlie, then that will that will die out. And Charlie would I if he he
were here he he would say that you know that uh a real revival is going to be
the result of the spirit of God moving in people and drawing them back to the
Lord Jesus. Uh drawing them to a life that is uh turning away uh from the
world and the flesh and all that our culture pulls us towards. Um, and that
repentant heart and longing to walk with the Lord is what needs to be at the
heart of any revival. Uh, I would pray and hope that that is what will happen
here. U, but I think that's, uh, it's just too early to make a statement to
say that is what is happening. Um, you know, we've seen we saw some we saw some
things happen after 911 that uh many people were very hopeful that it was
going to bring our nation back together. We had Democrats and Republicans singing
uh you know, patriotic songs on the steps and uh you know, we're we're more
divided now than ever. Yeah, that didn't last long. Yeah. So, uh let's pray. Let's pray that
this will spark a proper revival. Let's pray that the spirit of God will indeed
uh begin to move and bring about a true uh revival. I I hope that's what
happens. You know, I think part of it is and and I do think I I completely agree with
what you're saying. I mean, are our hearts going to turn to Christ or not? Right? Is is it you know, there's one
thing to say, okay, well, Charlie is a trigger for some of these things. Wonderful. Um, but I do think that there
is part of this is it seems to be the way he lived his
life, right, which was very Christc centered. I have a lot, you know, he's right here down the road from me. His
his offices are and I've been to them and I have several friends that work
with him and for worked with him for for years, Latter Day Saint friends, and
they all admire him, right? They love him because he is and and I get this
report from two or three of them, you know, that he he was always so courageous to be outward in
professing his faith in Christ, you know, whether whether in whatever
public uh uh venue he was in, wherever he was, he's going to bring that up and
he's going to make that a point as to this is where my source for truth is. This is where my source for courage is.
this is my purpose for li living and and I think that you know I do think that that ties to him quite a bit and people
see that and I think that that plays a big role in in kind of what's going on. We do
see, it seems, if you go online, it seems that there's a big change in in in
church participation. Um, people dedicating themselves again to Christ, going back to church. Uh,
but as you're saying, I mean, we have a lot of distractions and and it's it's easy to be pulled away
again from things that are going to center yourself on good values and and morals and right
and on a Christlike life. But but don't Don't you think that plays a role in it? Oh, I do. I mean, I I don't think there
would be there would be any of what we have seen if it weren't for the fact
that Charlie lived the life he lived and uh and the witness that he showed and
the courage all those things you mentioned. All of those things uh are at at the heart of why something is
happening as a result of that. Uh the only question the only question here is
that is that purely a an emotional response um a philosophical political
response or is uh the Lord indeed going to use that and sweep us with the kind
of repentance uh that is necessary that draws us back to Christ. Uh and if that's the case, uh
then um you know, as hard as it is for us to say that, uh there will be a great
purpose in what happened to Charlie as God uh works all things for good. Uh and
as he always takes tragedy and turns it into beauty. Uh the the cross was a
tragic ugly thing, but God turned it into that was beautiful. uh the flood
from from my perspective. Um a very uh tragic judgment upon the world and yet
uh you go into the Grand Canyon and you can see the beauty that has come uh from
that. So, you know, we need to pray. Pray that God indeed is going to use
this that the stirring that we see in people uh will last that it will not
just simply be an emotional response that uh and as you just said it rightly,
Greg, that the world is not going to pull us back again. Uh it's it's very
powerful. It's a very powerful force in our culture today that is pulling on
everybody and it it pulls on us as well.
You know, I've I've I I think that when I was younger, I used to
I used to think that it was hard for one person to make a difference. You know, it it was it was it
and and yet if you go through history,
you you see both for good and for bad Mhm. this this really a short list
of individuals that have influenced the world. If I go run down a certain thread
of continental phil philosophy and I go from Rouso to Kant to Hegel and up to
Marx and and uh into the Frankfurt school and and you know all of this
stuff, you know, I I I end up with something that has profoundly affected the world.
Yes. In a negative way, right? A few a few thinkers, we'll call
them a few thinkers that that have profoundly affected the world for for for evil. And then of course if you go
back and you read go through the Bible and you see all of the prophets and the changes that they stirred and of course
Christ himself in the middle of all of this and and and his life and and martyrdom and death and and resurrection and how
that changes everything. Yeah. You know it's there there are
you know and again I'm not saying Charlie I don't know as you say what is going to be affected from this and how
this is going to last. Uh but I am I am I I more and more I am it confirms to me
that each of us has a role to play if we choose and that each of us can participate and
that we can make a difference in the world. Charlie has made a positive difference in the world
at 31 years old. I mean I'm I'm I'm amazed at him. You know I'll give a quick story. I was I was at a uh at a
movie premiere a couple of years ago and it was uh which one was it? Julie
Bailings's movie. I think it it was uh Wolf in Sheep's Clothing and it uh James Lindsay is somebody that was there and
there were several pastors that were there. Um I forget their names, but you
know, large congregations. You would know who they are. And I I after the
movie, I'm going around as I usually do and I'm networking and I'm talking to a number of these pastors. And one of these pastors says to me, um, "Hey,
yeah, Greg, look at this. You know what?" and and and he shows me this text from Charlie that he had just received during the movie and he's talking about
hey what are we going to do how are we going to change this how are we going to affect you know positively people's
lives basically on in this text and I'm talking to him and 15 minutes later as I'm still in there talking I come up to
another pastor and he was on the phone with Charlie talking to Charlie
and and I just thought who is this guy you know I mean and you know Dan, it's
just I I'm amazed at somebody like this that is that young that has that much influence already in that I He's 29
years old at that point. Yeah. And is But he, you know, he knows the
direction of his life. Mhm. Yeah. Well, I uh you just uh
Saturday, um I flew back on the Red Eye from Alaska uh in time for uh Dr.
Dobson's funeral. And uh it it was a it was a great
funeral and it was uh highlighting and celebrating uh the life of a man who had
impact all over the world and um and he is the founder of Focus on the
Family, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. uh his books and uh his work and his um
his uh heart for the unborn, his heart for the family, his heart for America
and all that, uh he had done, he had impacted a lot of people. Um but at the
same time uh you know we have the story of non in the old testament and the
story of non would not have happened had it not been for the little maiden the
little uh girl who had been uh kidnapped and and stolen from Israel and taken up
uh into Syria to be uh a prisoner of
war, a slave in name of the house, but she was the one that when Non got
leprosy, she was the one that said, "Oh, if my master could only see the prophet in Israel." And so the whole story we
have of Non, which I believe is one of the most incredible uh stories of the gospel uh hidden there in the Old
Testament, that would not have happened without this uh little slave girl that we don't even know her name. So, I think
it's important for people to realize that um you don't have to be a big name.
Uh Charlie Kirk, uh James Dobson,
you don't have to be big name. God calls you to make a difference in the world where you are. You you may uh make a
huge difference uh and no one will ever know your name. God will
uh but the the call is not for us to be big
and popular. Um God raised Charlie up to those positions. He does uh certain people but
he works through mostly he works through the common
ordinary individual who desires to give their life to him
and devote their life to him and to be content with walking that path
um without uh being one that makes the history books. And so, uh, I think in light of
the the whole issue of Charlie Kirk that it's important for us to take note of
how he lived his life, not who he was as a famous person, how he lived his life,
and that I want to live my life more like that than the way I am right now. I
think that's the the important thing. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's the lesson to to be seen here. I
want to move a little bit more toward the the the status of where we are with all of this happening, the context of
of Charlie and and uh the world that we live in right now. We've had a little bit of this discussion before, but uh
you know, we're living in the West especially where just a few stats here. You know,
marriage rates have dropped nearly 41% in the US since 1970,
right? and and they're tied. It's it's an
interesting stat here, but if you look at uh
for example, the Silverstein study, which was last year, came out, shows that 97% of highly religious men were
married by mid-40s versus 65% of non-religious men were
married by their mid-40s. Right? It seems more and more, I don't know if you see this, but it it it just
seems more and more that the idea of family and marriage and kids
and that unit in society that is so crucial as a building block for any society is tied more and more to the
religious and less and less to the secular and that that division is
starting to happen more and more. Is that something that you see? Well, it is uh and I think there there are reasons
for that. Um my concern is that uh I
don't know what your studies show there, but my concern is that um those those
who we might call religious uh are also uh beginning to follow that downward
trend. And that I believe the the heart of all of that
is comes back to this deep selfishness, self-centeredness.
uh when we talked about the seven threats, one of those was the rise of homodas
and that we as a culture, western culture, uh we're we're not just selfish, we've
become obsessed with oursel and that obsession for uh with our self leads me
to then um desire and pursue
pleasure. uh to pursue happiness to pursue all
those things individually. Marriage is a commitment to a sacrifice
to another person. And when we're self the more
selfcentered we become, the less willing we are to sacrifice
to anyone else. uh unless I think I will get some benefit uh from that. So uh
self-centeredness and of course we would uh we would expect that those who are
not in Christ uh would be more affected by a self-centered nature. We're all affected
by a self-centered nature. But but Jesus calls us to deny oursel if we follow
Christ. Uh there is no doubt that not only Jesus but the rest of the scripture calls us away from self-centeredness
uh away to a true a true love of other of others which as I define and you know
that as a steadfast sacrificial zeal that seeks the true good of another and
that sacrificial love is not going to be manifest in uh in an
individual and a culture that is uh running palmel towards my own
pleasure uh and my own comfort and my own delight and all of those
self-centered pursuits that would cause us more and more to say
why why would I make a commitment to a woman in which I'm going to have to say
no to myself uh and and have children in which then
I'm going to have to say more no to myself in terms of how I spend my money
and how I spend my time. Uh and those kinds of things get lost
uh when we become self-centered. And so I I'm not trying to oversimplify the
thing, but um if you were to ask me if we were, you know, 100 years, uh before
now and and you were to ask me what would be the social consequence
of a culture that began to become obsessed with itself, I hope I would say
the first thing you'll see is uh the abandonment of marriage and children,
fathers will not be home uh and so forth. And and that's exactly what we
see happening. And we get this even prophesied. You can go back into Isaiah and see this exact
same thing of what's happening whether and then there's nuance. I wouldn't say nuances. There are other precursors to
this, right? That go right along with it that we see exactly in our society today. The feminization of men.
Yeah. The pride of women, right? And it's almost like Isaiah for example says that you know the women are the kind of the
last stand and if they kind of fall then we're really in trouble at that point. And yet you're seeing a large amount in
fact broadly the the the the Pew research is showing that women today are
are leaving the churches more than men and and it's what that is something that
has never happened in your or my lifetime. Right. and and yet it's and especially
the younger, you know, the millennial and generation Gen Z women are are leaving at that level. What what can be
done? You know, you you've got you've got you've got this new worldview that I
believe comes up through and I'll just say it. I think it comes up through a very woke type of mentality. And it's
not just a matter of policy. It's not just a matter of politics. It is a world view
that changes your mind on things and the way you see the world and it is very
compelling especially for women because it leads with the carrot of empathy.
Yes. And I I see in fact I think you use the term malevolent compassion. That's correct.
I think I drew that from you. So I think it's a malevolent compassion is what is used in as this and it's women are more
empathetic. They're just more compassionate. And so it's a it's a tool that is used more for them to to draw
them away. And yet you've seen a little bit of a resurgence of men coming back to church.
So that now Christianity broadly, you have almost an even number of men and
women in the pews now, right? Sitt sitting in the pews. And so where are we at with that? What? It's
It's just so strange to read these things in in in something that happened 2700 years ago.
Mhm. And and and see this playing out right now. Yeah.
Well, it is it is a phenomenon. You're exactly right because it bucks the trend that that we saw for many many years as
our as western culture became more and more feminized. Then uh the male didn't
didn't know where he belonged anymore. And uh he then became the buffoon. He became seen as the buffoon. Uh he is
nothing more than the the papa barrenstein bear uh who's just a cub in a grown-up body
and u mama bear rolls her eyes at him constantly and he's just out for fun.
And so the male uh lost his his purpose as we talked about in our seventh
throtty. He's driven the the noble male is driven by that lead engine for truth
and wisdom and righteousness. He's driven for that. And when we do away with absolute truth, then he loses that
lead engine and uh and the the female driven by grace and compassion with with
no bridal of truth, wisdom and righteousness, then uh then compassion becomes the prime ethic. And that's what
has happened in western culture. But it is not uh it is not a compassion that is
that is bridled by truth, wisdom and righteousness. It is a compassion that is malevolent and it it produces a
tragedy. And in fact, if you don't mind, I just got back from Alaska where uh I
was leading a retreat for missionary families who are working in the bush
bush villages. And the Alaskan Native family has been destroyed
uh for all of its existence. Uh it was a very
strong family unit uh working not in
what we would call a very wealthy circumstances. Uh but they knew how to work the land.
Uh they knew how to process animals and they and they taught those trades to
their children and they were a very intact group until we gave them
subsidies. And when we did that, we made them dependent.
And now they don't work. Uh the villages are rife with alcohol and and drugs and
abuse and suicide and and so what we have destroyed that
family by making them dependent. And and the same thing is happening uh
and has happened to the black family uh where in the early 1900s the black
family in America was the most intact ethnic family group of any anybody. And
then we and then we threw welfare. I think it's demonic Greg. I really do.
And I think this uh worldview and we talked about that as one of the threats.
It's a demonic worldview. It comes from Marx, but that comes from, I think, the
the pit of hell. And it is driven by or the carrot that you just said, a
malevolent compassion uh that makes everybody equal, makes everybody dependent. Uh and and that is
the prescription for destruction. We see it in Aladdin. We've seen it in the
black families. And I'll go out on a limb here and I say we will see it in the churches. If we make
people simply dependent upon a pastor and and they just they just show up on
Sundays to get fed, then they will not be fruitful. You know, they are not
going to be people who are uh who are engaging with their neighbor and and
being bold in the culture around them and and swimming against the stream. So
all of those things uh are are part of what's happening in our culture. There
is a that worldview, Greg, you know as well as I do. It did not go away with the Trump administration. It is still
there. It is seething. I mean it is seething. It is planning.
Oh it is planning. And uh you know as well as I do if if you know uh we roll
into 2028 with a new a different type administration that it will be a
firestorm. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think that that's right. I mean you've got unfortunately
that worldview owns all the institutions. It does. It owns all the institutions. You know you get a lot of talk about the woke
right now and and these things. It's like okay there there is a a threat there. It is certain there certainly is
some type of threat but there is no power right the power is all in the institutions and the institutions are
owned by that woke left right now and and and that is until you can change
the institutions we we cannot change America it's just not going to happen until you can change
the institutions and they're very much embedded in each of those places especially academia but uh lastly I I
want to go well let me say one more thing on this topic Okay. You know, I'm going to go down and you said you were hoping you're not being too simplifying
things too much. I'm going to simplify it even more. Okay. Uh it seems that especially with men, it
it seems that the problem is this idea of responsibility
and and if I want to be responsible for a wife, I'm going to be responsible for children. And of course it applies to
women too, but um I think men especially need the responsibility to fill a void
and to sense purpose in their life. And the world simply comes at us from
all angles and says, "No, let me strip this responsibility away from you." And
and and you don't need to work for this at all. You don't need to you don't need to bear others burdens, right? you don't
need to do these types of things again looking at uh you know being selfish and
prideful and and you can just focus on yourself but I I think that responsibility is
the world view of we need responsibility you should seek after it in fact
the ability to to build a family to teach a family to preach to your family
and beyond to a I I think that's where we're hurting,
right? Is is it's this feeling that well, what what do I want from my life? Well, it's not about that. What what are
you going to give? Right. What can you give? And so responsibility seems to be squaltched.
Yeah. At about every turn. Yeah. I I I agree with that. the but the
not but in in the midst of that we're back again with why do I not want to
take responsibility and I don't want to take responsibility because it's all about me and so at the
heart of all this is is a new heart you know until an individual
uh has given their life to Christ and Paul says I'm a new creature it is is no
longer longer I who live but Christ lives in me. And that is when we give up
ourself. Uh because it is no longer I who live.
And if it is no longer I who live, then I don't care about my self-centered
pursuits. I don't care about my comfort. I don't care about my pleasure. Uh what
I care about is living for Christ. And and what Christ calls me to as a man is
to be responsible to love my wife as he loved the church, to love my children,
to have children, and to raise those children. Why? Because it's not about me. So I, you know, Greg, I I think
until um I mean the bottom line is until someone has given their life to Christ
and have become that new creature willing to say no to themselves.
Uh then you know they will continue to take the easy way out and the easy way
out is no responsibility. Yeah. and uh abdicate whatever
responsibility you may think I have and uh and a young man will say, "Look, I
won't get married or if I can get a girl to shack up with me, then that's what I'll do." Mhm.
Yeah. Yeah. I agree 100%. I think that's exactly right. And and honestly, I it's
it's the only solution. Ultimately, it is the only solution.
It is. Period. I mean, when you get down to bedrock on that, it it's
it's all there is, right? It's the only solution that there is. Uh, I want to finish with this. Uh, I do some work,
some interfaith work, right? I I I work with uh people from the the Church of England. I've worked with people from
Greek or the Greek Orthodox Church, the the Catholic Church, a lot of evangelical uh Protestants. Um
we had uh you know a very unfortunate event for us as Latterday Saints uh a week ago uh in Michigan where a man came
in and slammed his truck into the side of the church uh fired an assault rifle
and uh lit the church on fire. Yeah. Um horrible, right? Horrific type of
thing. And in fact, we see this a lot in in in other churches that's starting to happen. Um
he was very vitriolic against Mormons, right? Apparently there was there was a
lot of hate and and vitriolic against Mormons. He had a bad relationship with a a Latter-day Saint woman apparently
previously. What
what can we do where where we have we have as you can
see in this conversation we have so much in common but there are definitely theological
differences where we're not really willing to move on either side and that's okay to me that's that's okay
right it's like okay there's there are there are differences I I respect you
for what you believe. I think you are a good man. I I I see
you as an example. I'll be honest. I see you as an example to me. But there there are others that are
when you're working in an interfaith type of a scenario that take a very different view
of things where where the focus is it's almost hateful. It is hateful
sometimes. Yeah. How do we change the rhetoric or what do we do to help solve that type of create
those types of bridges where where we're looking more at a scenario of Christ with a woman at the
well, right? and and and and between different
faiths working with each other, loving each other
and and and still while still holding on to what is so core to your belief,
right? Yeah. Well, first of all, and I want to uh Greg, my thoughts are the
same to you uh in your kind words of me.
Uh, and I also want to offer just, you know, condolences and
just a a heartfelt sickness associated with what what happened there in
Michigan. It is it's more than tragic. It's ugly and um and I don't know anyone
I there is no one that I know uh who would delight in that at all.
I I also think from uh from my study of that that the drugs were probably involved as well. And uh the guy had
gotten hooked on meth and uh bottom line to that is drugs and alcohol
are destroying our culture. Yes. And they drive people to do crazy
things. But you're right that uh there is a
there is a segment and I think it's a small segment, Greg. I don't think it's anything more than a deep deep minority.
Uh I remember when I when I was at Focus on the Family, uh I don't know if you
know this or remember this, Greg, but uh there was a Prop 2 that I think was Prop
2 in California. Yeah, Prop 2. and um and focus on the family and the Latterday Saint community
in California joined forces uh together uh in that effort in in California and
uh and I thought it was uh uh it was a great uh joint effort
that uh that we did because we shared the same values. We share the same ethical value.
Uh there was there was a guy who was
protesting outside of focus on the family. He had a he had a oh whatever
the you know the the death uh the the angel uniform or whatever sickle and and
all that kind of stuff. The reaper. The reaper. Yeah. The reaper. And so he was protesting against focus on the
family because we were linking arms with the LDS folks in California.
Okay, that that that was ugly. Uh I mean, but but I'm telling you it was it
was one out of thousands if not millions. And so
I'm not trying to discount it, but what I'm trying to say is that there are
times where those things can spur us on to a more loving approach to people we
disagree with and that should happen. Uh I I call for that as much as I can in
any situation. You know there is no reason for a Christians ever to be
involved in anything like that to show hatred towards any other person
uh regardless of differences of opinion. And yet uh you know I'll confess even
within evangelical Christianity we have we have battles and strikes against each
other you know based upon whether or not somebody's going to use a set of drums in the worship service. And it's just
crazy. It's just absolutely crazy. Um, and I think we should continue to strive
towards that. Um, but what I guess I would say is that
we need to be reminded that when these things happen,
I wouldn't want the LDS community to then think that's widespread in
evangelical Christianity. It is not. uh and or vice versa. Uh so we need to
we need to acknowledge the how horrific that was, how unbiblical and how ungodly
that is and how contrary that is to our belief in our faith.
And uh but but don't let uh then that
hatred stir up angst or hatred uh as a result of that. So that's when the enemy
wins, right? We don't want the enemy to win here. So yeah,
appreciate that. Those very wise words. I really do appreciate that. Uh and it was prop two originally up front, but
later on the big one, I think was Prop 8 that uh Yeah. Yes. in and and but there was a
prop too that we also hook hooked hands together on. So anyway, Dell, thanks so
much for your time. I really appreciate it. Good luck with everything that you're doing. You still working on the truth project? Uh well, the I'm working
on the engagement project and uh but I'm now I'm doing the understanding our times conference and the biblical path
forward. So in fact, I've got one this Saturday. But um anyway, we're uh we're
pressing forward and and you are as well, Greg. Uh think highly of you and
all that you're doing and thank you for the privilege of of being with you today.
Thanks, Del, very much.