What is Hope? How do you develop it and why do we need it? Also, how does it fit in the Attributal Triad of 'Faith, Hope & Charity'? I talk about these questions and really try to get at the heart of HOPE in a conversation with Award-Winning author and speaker, Heidi Tucker. Heidi has focused her writing on hope. She pulls from her own experience and struggles and gives stories from her books of others that have faced immense hardship and most importantly, she gives solutions on how to move through those struggles.
LDS Mormon Faith Hope and Charity
what changed my world and rewired me
completely rewired me
[Music]
so Heidi I'm kind of excited about this
subject it's something actually that
I've studied quite a bit one thing I
have is a series that I started over a
year ago and didn't complete yet but
I've I started off with a faith hope and
charity series and so I did faith and I
haven't moved on since then
so this is this is something that can
kind of maybe fill that gap a little bit
for us for awhile you're the right
person to talk to about this but I'd
like to talk to you about your
experience you've written a couple of
books on hope and you have your own
personal experiences you have the
experiences of others that you've
written about I mean very open-ended
question to start with what do
you think hope is I mean I've got my
little ideas but what do you think
hope is for me I don't write or speak
about hope in sort of a superficial way
it's for me hope is not when I speak and
write about hope it's not something like
a wish like we use it interchangeably
right boy I wish I could go to Hawaii
boy I hope I get to go to Hawaii mm-hmm
when I when I study and think and write
about hope I'm talking about the
confident expectation in longing for a
promised blessing we don't know when
it's gonna happen but we know that it
will happen at some point that's
interesting so you look at it as an
expectation then yes it's you
you are expecting a blessing yes or
you're expecting something in the future
yes or things to be made right or you
know obviously if somebody dies that
they're not going to be you know
recreate reincarnated right in front of
you but the confident expectation and
longing for some promised blessings that
you believe or promised to you at some
point in your life or in your
understanding of the gospel so it seems
to me that that would that would change
your state of being wouldn't it I mean
it would change your
attitude of life if you constantly have
that sitting right in front of you if
that kind of a confidence as you say yes
and that expectation have you seen this
as you've talked about this or heard of
others experiences or your own
experiences where there is an
actual change in your attitude a change
in what would come from that attitude if
someone can live more with hope
absolutely because it you know it helps
you continue to move forward as opposed
to just sort of curling up and turning
inward you know the whoa is me and why
me
and to ask all of those questions why me
well you know we're here to be tested I
mean these things are gonna happen
there's going to be all kinds of things
thrown at us and if we can have an
external view that says okay I've got
this expectation that somehow these
blessings are going to happen and
somehow my life is going to go the
picket fence is down
I see no white picket fences right now
but somehow that's all going to be made
right I like your term there of external
view yeah what do you mean by that I
mean what I mean by that is that when
the storm rages inside and we all have
them right we're all carrying a cross of
a different kind so we've all got these
crosses and as we sort of go through
life at some point you have to look
outside of your own storm and when you
do that that creates an entirely
different trajectory of your life and it
pulls your focus off of yourself and it
puts it on to the feet of others
that are going through other issues and
what do you feel is the difference why
do you think that works I mean really
why why does that work so I'm guessing
that if you're tuck is you've talked
about in your books you've talked about
and you're and you're speaking you know
how service is an important part
of maybe moving out of struggles I
talked about a transition period that's
coming between your struggles to hope
yes and you see the service is a big
part of that why would reaching outside
of yourself make a difference how does
that make you transition yeah well you
know it makes it helps you understand
because when you're in the middle of a
struggle and you're really sort of
self-absorbed and consumed by your own
whoa when you step outside and do
something even just little for a
neighbor you know bring your garbage
cans in I mean you can start really
really small when you do that all of a
sudden you sort of start to realize it's
not always all about you and it just
it's a it's an external focus of all of
your attention and your emotion and your
drive being placed outside of your own
self I think that's really interesting I
I talked a lot about Lehigh stream and
how he has this dream of the tree of
life right which I believe my definition
that the angel gives to Nephi my
conclusion there is that is the doctrine
of Christ right so it's everything
about who Christ is what he does he
comes down to earth he takes on our sins
he resurrects you know it's all about
the this doctrine of Christ and the
opposite of that on the other side of
the chasm is this great a spacious
building and we're told that that great
and spacious building is pride yes right
and so you have these opposites
that are set before you in your journey
on life right and one is all about
you right and it's the spite and the
opposite of all about you really is this
underlying and again this is my opinion
but there's this underlying current of
the doctrine of Christ which is
following his example right which is
it's all as you say external it's it's
it's going out side of yourself and it's
sacrificing for others
serving others it's loving others and it
you know when you kind of I don't break
those down to their rudimentary elements
there you have this is all about me and
this is all about others yes and you
have those two choices right yeah look
you know when we're all we're all headed
towards the tree right and there's gonna
be some mud puddles and we're going to
do some face plants every one of us
right and so you know you hit the fit
your face hits the mud puddle and at
some point first you got a wallow a
little bit and that's okay we're all you
know or we can all have our own pity
party and we're entitled to that at some
point we get on our knees and we plead
for help and at some point we stand up
and guess what you know we've got a new
gift because of what you've been through
in that face plant
you have the ability now because to
change someone's life and to make a real
impact because you have a new
perspective and you have a new empathy
in an area that you never fully
understood it before because you hadn't
in there so if you can find the strength
just stand up and to just reach your
hand out and maybe help somebody else in
need or to just reach outside have that
external focus you know pull your head
up wipe that mud off of your face look
at the tree you've got a new gift for
the rest of your journey forward you put
a new gift to help others with that and
that when you use that gift and it can
be really simple when you use that gift
and that awareness that changes people's
lives you make a better place and I
think it's easy to develop a an attitude
and ideology whatever it might be to do
exactly that like you say I mean if
you're if you're face like you say all
of us have got her face is dirty plenty
of times yeah but it's easy to say ok
this journey then is a glass half empty
right right and I can take
that way and it's the same thing it's
the same experience that everybody else
has more or less alright I'm going to
take it as a glass half empty moving
forward and that's how I'm gonna see the
world but it's limiting I mean that's
going to limit you and limit those that
are around you as compared to as you
said which i think is great is you
now have an extra little tool you know
in your journey here in your backpack
toward the tree that you can help others
with it's gone through it yeah
and I'm not saying it's easy you know
it's not easy to get up out of that mud
puddle and wipe your face and take
another step it's not easy
was it meant to be yeah exactly yeah it
caused us to dig really really deep into
our soul and it forces a bridge to a
higher power and that's why we're here
is to find those bridges and those links
and those moments that testified to us
that there is something bigger than just
us yeah
that's been my experience I know that
when things are their toughest that's
when I feel closest today it is
unfortunately because I'm forced to do
it yeah you know it's just that little
push you know darn it get you're there
and it's not fun no you talked about
enduring it well and you talked a lot
about this I mean you kind of couple
this this idea of struggle and hope
right everybody's struggling but there
is hope what is it what does it
mean to you to say to someone or what
what is the asset of enduring it well
going through your struggles yeah okay
well I see I think they look really
different you know to just endure we
hear ourselves and we talk about a lot
of times in the gospel or with others we
talk about I'm just enduring well to
just endure
you know maybe looks like you're curled
up and under your covers praying away
your circumstance that can be enduring
right it's subtle
to some degree clench my fist and
grit my teeth and I'm just gonna get
through this service yeah and just pray
my circumstances away every single day
mm-hmm
to endure it well means to reach outside
about and with those gifts that you're
learning and those gifts that you've
received in the past you are making
small differences in the world with
individual people that you can make an
impact on while you're struggling I
think that's the difference between
enduring and enduring it well is to
function throughout the struggle and
still recognize others okay around
travel what you also say that
there's always hope yeah right and I'm
guessing you say that because we all
know sometimes we don't feel that way
right right if something's tough what
what do you what do you do to you
know when you're really at that the
end of the rope yeah what do you do
to remind yourself of that you know that
there is hope yeah well I think it I
think it really goes back to a belief in
it right a belief in what my definition
it was when we started which is that
confident expectation and longing for
some promised blessing that I believe
that that is true that I believe that in
my heart and soul and I can say to
myself I don't know why everything feels
like it's falling apart but I trust for
me it's trusting in God for others you
know whatever your belief system is I
trust that maybe it's not falling apart
maybe it's falling together maybe the
pieces are being put together to teach
or to take my path on a different
direction or to take someone else's path
who I'm concerned and caring about so I
think it boils down to a belief system
in that
and so for me what that looks like is
reaching out and it alters my prayers a
little bit I don't initially write we
all pray that that circumstance will go
away you know tragedy happens or
something happens in where we're in the
mud puddle right and we're just
desperately praying for that
circumstance to disappear we want that
mountain removed we don't want to hike
it
we just want Heavenly Father take away
that mountain and at some point my
prayers changed to help me climb that
mountain help me climb this mountain
help me take another steep step and help
me trust that this is something bigger
than I can see do you think there's ways
that we can prepare ourselves for that I
mean it'd be nice to be already prepared
to go through a bad situation then just
to a hundred percent react right yeah
right how would you prepare for that
maybe you know that's really hard I feel
like that's a certainly a process not an
event mm-hmm and I'm better at
recognizing that then I was in my 20s
and my 30s for sure so I think it's
really a lifetime of study for me what
changed my world and rewired me was an
early-morning calling to teach seminary
for four years mm-hmm completely rewired
me like how I
I got glimpses and I got messages and
that I had never seen before I I know
that I was blessed in that Colleen to be
able to take a chapter in the New
Testament or the Book of Mormon or in
any other scripture to take a chapter
that I had studied for and to instantly
flip it into teaching those high school
kids how that made a difference in their
life what is the message here for you
and so I was able to do that over and
and over again and just through a
process of applying the script
hi yes applying it and taking a
different attitude as you read as to
what does this have to do with me and I
still do that you know I haven't taught
now for 10 years but I still do the same
thing in my mind when I sit down to read
you know Mosiah this week I sit down and
I say hey what does this have to do with
me and it's a different way to approach
it really is a different way I
think it's the way you're supposed to I
really do it you know it's so hard with
the Scriptures because you're talking
about well they're old they're old
they're old they're all grown in a
foreign land this strange culture the
string you know all the translation that
goes into it and you know it's odd
that we have that as our primary manual
really I mean in a sense right it's like
so why does the Lord do that you know
and why do we have these old writings
you know for us today but for me I
think it's part of well the title of one
of your books you know where he's
talking about the journey there's kind
of a journey like you experience
teaching you know of discovery right and
if you can keep moving down that path
with the scriptures of all of this
discovery of new context and new meaning
and purpose and practicality I try
to talk a lot about that there
actually
the scriptures are very practical if you
can learn to apply them to your life and
it's different every time right if you
take that approach in your study and in
your reading Messiah chapter 12 his dip
going to be different next year than it
is this year sure right and so you take
that old text and it's not though here
we go again
Messiah 12 it's going to be different
because if you're asking that question
and the you've got a prayer in your
heart of what does this mean to me what
am I supposed to learn it's going to be
different every year that's a great
point
you know I talk in this series I've
started and not finished as I've studied
this my I've come to the conclusion that
faith hope and charity are there they're
this triad of attributes right that are
they're always brought together and I
can see it in the Old Testament even
when it's not given the same exact words
I can see it in stories but it's to me
it's a it's a it's an attribute or
progression in other words the way I see
it taught and often III I can't help but
think that the authors of the scriptures
don't believe this they take an
example of faith say Enos right he's
praying and he wants repentance you know
he wants to go through the repentance
process and he exerts his faith in the
sacrifice of Jesus Christ right right so
faith is put out there and then
immediately he has this new state of
mind after he has gone through this were
painted repentance process it's like
he's a new creature it's being born
again right and with being born again
there's this new attitude and
this new outlook and perspective on his
life and you know you can kind of see
this as you read through the story and
then and I what I what I would look at
that is the hope right that's so
to me hope is a result of faith I don't
believe it all that they're the same
thing they're very different right I
always tell people my belief is that
faith is trust it is it is not belief it
is it's learning to take a principle and
exercising it proving it yeah and then
if it's true you can rely on it right
it's uh it's like the atonement
right if I can try that out and I can
lean on it that's trust right and
that if I exercise that then I have hope
mmm-hmm right I can have hoping that
principle I see it's going to work in
the future if I can have that
expectation as you say especially the
big prize right the eternal life
exaltation if I can have that hope for
that and live with that I'm a different
person and then what Enos does once he
feels that is he immediately he turns
and he starts talking about his brother
in the Nephites and how he wants to
preach to them and help them and then
even further out he talks about the
Lamanites yes right and you can see this
process happening throughout the
scriptures where there's this like
there's this attribute of progression
right I'm going through all three of
those phases but it seems to me you know
I don't know if you've thought about
this before but it just seems to me that
that hope may be you know the way we
gain hope and have that kind of an
attitude and perspective on life is to
be thrown into struggles you know
everybody's gonna have to be tested like
Abraham and Sarah and develop faith
through those struggles lean on the Lord
lean on principals lean on the plan of
salvation and then we can have that hope
start you know blooming for us right and
then when you've got that hope when
you've entered I feel like when you've
entered that phase of you've got the
hope that you're sort of toying with it
right I think I've got some hope here I
think we begin to look for it hmm that's
when we position our hearts differently
it's not gonna be on a billboard maybe
it is you know you hear about stories as
someone sees a word on a billboard and
they go that's my answer
but in general it's going to be so small
that it could be it could very easily be
missed if you haven't positioned your
heart to find it so you've got a trust
you've got to have that faith and then
when you begin to hope you begin to
search for it in very very discreet tiny
simple very beautiful ways
that Heavenly Father is saying all right
here you go here's just a nugget for you
it sounds like what you're saying is
that if you've developed that as you say
that it builds on itself yes absolutely
so you're a are you saying you're more
receptive kind of maybe or you just like
everything else I think practice makes
you better
mm-hmm at finding hope if you practice
it and if you work at it the
scriptures say that well one thing you
say is to make sure that you know
that you're not alone yes right with
that man that would be an ingredient
somewhere in there with hope
right and it's kind of like also we can
tie that into what you're saying about
being you know something that's external
right if when you're alone and you feel
alone obviously you're not
external at all right you're your if
you're lonely then there's something
missing in a bond between those around
you or the Lord or whatever right so if
if you're you want to know if you want
to feel like you're not alone in times
of struggle and depression and anxiety
whatever it might be and you need hope
the scriptures say that you can't have
fear and love at the same time right can
you can you have can you have loneliness
and hope at the same time sure sure I
think so
I can give you an example of a moment
that was huge for me
I write about this in my first book my
son had come home early from a mission
called to Russia and so he comes home
early right he comes out of the MTC at
about 11 weeks and comes back and so you
know my whole world
you know just exploded in that moment
and I he's going through one thing and
I'm going through another right as mama
bear and
it's not the way it's supposed to look
and I just I'm devastated for him and so
I'm trying to pray that boy back on a
mission all right I'm gonna I'm gonna I
have the faith to get that boy back on
the mission mm-hm and so that's where my
prayers are all day and all night long
and I felt very alone in that I see no
progression in that direction I felt
abandoned my faith is tested I feel like
I'm the only one going through this and
there was one particular day that I'm
out hiking I was up in Utah for the
summer and I'm out hiking in the
mountains and I wrote about this in my
first book but it was probably my lowest
day and I'm out there crying I'm just
bawling my head off hiking in the
mountains and all of a sudden and I'm
praying and I'm kind of yelling at God
you know and I and all of a sudden here
comes a white butterfly and here comes a
second and here comes a third and I'm
not kidding Greg there were a hundred
white butterflies that came out of the
grass surrounded me and just fluttered
around me as I hiked that mountain for
about a minute and I said to myself okay
God knows who I am he knows where I am
he knows my struggle and he knows and he
loves my son he is aware so in that
moment where I have never felt so alone
and so abandoned I also felt hope
because I recognized that that wasn't
you know fortunately I'm grateful that
my heart was able to recognize that as a
moment of hope a glimmer that God gave
me that he was aware and that it wasn't
just a coincidence Oh what are all these
butterflies doing out here you know if
that will never be a coincidence to me
nobody could ever convince me otherwise
sure yeah well I'm not going to try and
commit you otherwise yeah
[Laughter]
the first quote in your book Servie’s song
that you use in the first chapter is
from my favorite prophet is David O
Mckay and he says the greatest battle
of life is fought out within the silent
chambers of your own soul yeah and I
think that's it's a great quote but you
know there's there seems to me
like there's this great duality of our
mortal experience here and in that and
it's my belief you know we have I'm
going into some of my things here but
but I I believe the Aaronic priesthood
is the priesthood of the individual and
the milk acidic priesthood is the
priesthood of the family and the
community right and so we have this
these two areas here where we have the
individual and then we have reaching out
beyond that and going out to
others right so well kids increases
first marriage and family and then Zion
right and but it really I mean I
don't know if there's another time I in
anybody's life where maybe that
loneliness comes in more than when you
are again at the end of your rope and
that a whole defining of an individual
because you can you can be in a happy
long-term marriage have great kids
everything is hunky-dory in all of your
life and you've got all these
relationships you're a people person a
great network and but when there is
something that just hits you square in
the eyes and it's just going to drag you
through the mud you are in a sense for a
while there by yourself
I mean you are experiencing this in a
very individual way yes and yet the way
out of that is apparently to reach out
to others right so it puts you back in
as this individual
but then and what I'm trying to say is
it seems to me that again also in that
there is a progression that happens with
our struggles in that the Lord is saying
I want you to understand your
individuality because with that comes a
certain identity and an understanding if
you'll follow the process properly yeah
that you are my son or daughter right
you have a direct
relationship to me and that
intrinsically right is going to say that
you're not alone right right if you have
that relationship and then of course
through service or whatever else it
might be reaching out to others that's
how you then move yourself out of
struggle and into hope which is going to
produce joy right and the fullness of
joy you talk about the difference
between joy and fullness of joy yeah
yeah essentially you're going from the
why me
to the what now you know that's a higher
that's a higher question to say what now
instead of winey winey is internal it's
it's all focused on me and all of my
issues and troubles and it's okay to
be in that space for a little while
because we all are we are that's
the turmoil within the soul which is the
greatest animal is when we're just it's
just all internal we're just can't you
know can't sort of get ahold of
something in at some point we do raise
our head up and seek for guidance from
friends and from leaders at church and
from God and then it's not quite as
lonely a journey you feel like you've
got a little bit of a spiritual team on
your side yeah you'd said I'm quoting
here from your book you said suffering
is universal how we react to suffering
is individual exactly
right I think again I think that's right
it just kind of you know struggles are a
part of life yeah and unfortunately we
need to say well it's a good thing
because we're never going to be pushed
otherwise to strengthen that faith to
find the hope to you know develop battle
scars right and to increase you know
our understanding of who we are with
without that right but do you think it
helps knowing that other people go
through the same thing
absolutely it helps a little bit there's
been of a team that you're a member
you're in a club now right yes but it's
still it's still an individual
battlefield you know when it when you
take it take it right down to its bones
it's still between you and you and the
Lord
in making that work within yourself and
coming to terms with that and how you're
going to react your react to that
struggle your reaction when you had your
your moment with your son
it's in you know did that kind of
pull you away from the white picket
fence absolutely right it's kind of like
I mean just that one jarring thing all
of a sudden all the pieces fall away
everything look it looks differently now
yeah and it doesn't mean what your
expectations had been before and that
wasn't in my plan do you think that
changes you
I mean before you're going through the
struggle that is it a feeling of like
I'm not who I thought I was or at least
my life isn't what I thought it was then
or well first for a short time you know
as I'm as I'm rolling around in the mud
these were my thoughts I didn't I should
have had better family home evenings I
should have had more family prayer with
my kids I didn't know I should I should
have I should
I really started to beat myself up and
then at some point I didn't let myself
go down that road too long at some point
I said wait a minute you know wait a
minute this is not this is not about me
and my failures as a parent let me pull
my head up a little bit here and
move forward in this and let's see
what I'm supposed to learn here it's a
different you know I think it's no
different than many other struggles that
we encounter whether it's illness or
whether it's a child leaving church or
you know all of these issues you
initially want to beat yourself up and
they used to say wait a minute no that's
not what this is about it's uh free
agency stuff to deal with yeah we all
want it but it's it can be a hard thing
to deal with you believe we
enthusiastically yes I want to feel joy
yes I want to struggle in that free
agency thing is the bomb let's go for it
yeah but you know what that's
kind of a strength though if you do
think about that right I mean it's kind
of like okay I knew what I was getting
myself into
yes and I was happy about it yes and
maybe that provides a little bit more of
an eternal perspective it's huge for me
really it really is huge for me to have
a complete trust and understanding that
that really did take place and that I
really did believe that I wanted to come
here and go through everything that I'm
going through
it's everything yeah your first
book was finding hope in the journey
your second book was Servie’s song yes
right tell us just a little bit kind of
a capsulated version of the story of
Servie Servie is this beautiful woman
whose mother wife in
Zimbabwe little tiny village in Africa
who has six children and her husband
dies tragically in a car accident within
the period of two years it quickly
becomes very apparent that she can no
longer pay for food and she cannot pay
for their education
and she and her husband knew that
education was the ticket out of poverty
in Zimbabwe there in this poor little
village right and so she has to make
a decision and it becomes that she
becomes made aware of an opportunity to
come to the United States and to work
and send money back so she leaves those
children in the care of family members
has never left her little village in
Africa an airplane goes to New York City
if you pay imagine that right skyscraper
capital and goes to New York City to
find work so that she can mail money
back for the care of her children for
the education of her children so that
they will be more educated and better
off than she is that's chapter one
mm-hmm so the story continues on and we
see tragedy after tragedy we see her get
down on her knees and you see her get
back up again over and over so many
times that you wonder helping this woman
go forward and but you see this
beautiful transformation of her heart
and you see incredible blessings that
she finds here in the United States and
you see this story of Hope unfold from
her perspective and it's really
inspiring it's inspiring to those of us
who see our problems is overwhelming
which they are in our own life but we
look at some of her problems and go
right okay I'm gonna be a little more
grateful tomorrow mm-hmm she do you see
I mean this might seem obvious but what
what role does hole play in in that
story I mean is are there other
attributes that she has that how does
someone you know cause I know she has she
loses her one or two or three of her
children I can't remember how many and
you know what she's I think mostly while
she's here in the US and in there back
home and of course she lost her husband
she's got other trials she's got to go
through it's a and obviously if we all
need context when we all need to see
examples I mean a savior obviously is
the example of what somebody goes
through right but how do you keep
getting back up yeah she was raised by
this amazing I've met her mother before
she doesn't speak English but we just
communicate through the ice you know
it's just heart to heart and I met her
mother and her mother is the God loving
woman who carries around her Bible
tucked underneath her arm wherever she
goes she's got that Bible with her
so serving was raised you know that I
don't believe the LDS Church is if
anywhere in this in this village where
she is from but she was raised by a
mother who loved God and she taught
those children that he is aware of you
and you need to talk to him every day
and he will never ever leave you and so
she had that sort of deep belief that
she never let go of now as you as you
learn in the books and things that she
does to within her grief she saves her
money and is able to fly back once a
year to see her children to save enough
money to do that and so one of the
things that she does is all year long in
preparation for that trip back she goes
over and over and over to second-hand
stores to Goodwill Industries you know
to St. Goodson’s Nepal and she goes
over there and she purchases for pennies
any items of clothing that she can for
the
orphanages back in Zimbabwe so when she
gets on that airplane every year she
packs a small suitcase with you know
shirts and pants and things for her just
bare necessities and then she also ships
a very large suitcase it's just filled
with little dresses for girls who never
have a dress for sandals for boys who
run barefoot in the streets and for
little shorts and little shirts and she
brings those all over to Zimbabwe every
time she goes and it gets to the point
that after several years word travels
you know within the kids on the
street and they know that she's
coming sir he's coming sir he's coming
and so she gets off the bus after a
two-day trip you know from airplanes and
buses and all of that and gets off the
bus and they all kids from a street
homeless kids in the orphanages they
they found her around her they know that
she's coming bearing gifts and that
she's going to hug each of them and give
them all a gift that's what she
does with her grief as she loses some of
her own children she gives to others who
have no parents that's very
heartwarming that's amazing yeah yeah
that's the kind of person that she is
yeah how do you way she'd give me a big
hug whether you wanted one or not
this is the kind of hugger that doesn't
let go you know you kind of go to
release she doesn't release you're in
there for a while yeah amazing yeah I
love it if you were to give advice to
someone who is struggling with something
right now they need more hoping their
life or even to say giving advice to
someone who needs to live daily with
hope right with that attitude
what advice would you
give my advice would be take a really
take a really hard look at what your
keep pouring your prayers what are you
articulating are you or your prayers
asking that that your situation be
removed and I think that's okay
but are you also asking for help in
finding those glimmers of hope are you
are you doing some things in your life
are you looking at your scriptures are
you know are you doing some things
that built yourself up spiritually and
emotionally so that you can recognize
just a glimmer of hope when it happens
and ask God and your prayers to help you
to see that and you will know you will
if you do what you need to do to prepare
for that in building yourself up and
then you ask for it you know in a real
and a real prayer desire from your heart
you'll see that and it'll be in the form
of whether it's butterflies or whether
it's a scripture or whether it's a hymn
its son at church or whether it's a book
that you read or whether it's a friend
that comes over and says something to
you and you think that's exactly what I
need to hear it comes in all forms and
that's what the first book is
about really is all the different ways
that we can position our hearts to see
and to hear and to feel glimmers of hope
that are so often missed because we're
just trudging down that road with the
blinders on because that's how we get
through struggles right it's we trudge
you put the blinders on and we just look
at our own two feet and you trudge up
that mountain and so it's a conscious
effort to pull your head up to ask for
glimmers of hope and to look from side
to side at other people's feet because
there are others trudging up that
mountain with you in on their own trails
and I promise I promise you you'll see
glimmers of Hope it's an opportunity to
grow and maybe experience even greater
joy
it may not take away you know what
you're dealing with but it will help you
it will give you peace and it'll give
you comfort to deal with what you are
dealing with well I have it from very
good source that you've been a very
positive influence to a lot of people so
thank you keep doing what you're
doing
I didn't want to say is that I do in the
aspect that you're never alone I do
really honestly believe that we are if
there are angels both seen and unseen
that enter our lives when we most need
them and so if you know if that's
whether it's a friend or something I
feel like in the scriptures we talked a
lot about the Savior's arm there are a
lot of descriptive phrases open extended
outstretched inviting you know those are
all adjectives that describe his
arms and sometimes we need to be saviors
arms and other times someone else needs
to be that for us and that's all part of
that service that you've talked about
which helps us get through and get on
that train of faith hope and charity
which is where we all want to be yeah
great well good luck are you are you any
plans on another book I'm
finished with my third book and it's
just sort of in the ropes right now of
getting published and I hope it'll be
available in the fall how's your
experience been and being an author you
know I never I never set out to be an
author but here I am Here I am on this
path and it's great I feel that they
have an opportunity to reach a lot of
people and make a small difference in a
way that I can do that and it's sort of
this taking me on a speaking routes also
I do a lot of speed
in ships conferences and you know just
any group that wants to chat about coal
or not sure yeah it's been a really
great opportunity for me to make a small
difference well a little better it's a
great topic and all I look forward to
your next book
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