Cwic Show- Amazing Story of Church Work in the Military

When the environment requires it, the church must adapt in its organization and approach. Graham was part of a group made up of a Branch President and eleven, yes eleven counselors in a 'pressure cooker' known as the MCRD, or Marine Corps Recruit Depot. He is a fabulous story teller, and he has an incredible story to tell. You will want to hear this.

Stories of personal growth and redemption all within a 13-week boot camp period. Baptismal interviews, ten investigators with ten different missionaries, blessings of healing, priesthood ordinations all happening at once in a single, large classroom. Take a listen. You will enjoy it!

Graham Bullick has a PhD in Biology and has been a Senior/Executive Officer in a number of public companies. You can also read about him here- https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2006/10/the-breath-of-life?lang=eng

Podcast Links:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cwic-media/id1428167000
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3BNjs4EJqo0iK4LURdTPDb

 

 

this morphed into something really

pretty amazing

[Music]

so you received a call from the state or

where does that come from yeah we got a

cut like our call came from our stake

president which obviously for obvious

reasons but the stake that controlled

the branch that we went to or the MCRD

was actually and now what's the MCRD I'm

sorry MCRD is the Marine Corps Recruit

Depot okay and I'm gonna use that term

in our commerce now is that tied

directly to Camp Pendleton or is no okay

no it's a specific training camp for

recruits for Marines that recruits

there's two of them the United States

the East Coast one is Camp Lejeune or

Parris Island the West Coast is MCRD or

Marine Corps Recruit Depot and that's

where all Marines are trained

we get everybody west of the Mississippi

comes to MCRD everybody east of the

Mississippi goes to Lejeune and all

female remain Marines go to Lejeune oh

yeah and how long are they there for

they're there for about thirteen weeks

if everything goes well okay it doesn't

always go well but the goal is to get

him in and out in 13 weeks but a lot of

them spend a lot more time so what was

the calling that you received was it

what was the title what we were called

to do was to go down and conduct church

services for young men in the in the MC

OD undergoing training our goal or our

objective was to just go down and

conduct a sacrament meeting I do what we

could to help them and support them and

then come back from there it

evolved into something much much bigger

than that and candidly but that was

really what it was and that objective is

really what's going on in all camps

across the nation for any all of the

services Marine Corps Army Navy all of

them have groups that come in and

and do that there it's a group

organization like who's that a church

yeah I use that term in the church sense

it's a group it wasn't an organ most of

them are not organizing branches like

the MCRD was okay

we had some unique reasons for that we

did we wanted to do things that were

impactful to these young men to do that

we really kind of figured out that we

needed their church membership we needed

their membership records to have an

impact on these kids lives mm-hmm and so

that's where we morphed into but most

camps are most boot camps across the

country for the other services just form

groups so their membership records never

come in they just come and they go

to church while they're in your training

and then they leave how does the

membership record help well what it

helps us to do is it tells us who

they're who they are what their

priesthood is if there's any action

sitting on their on their records it

tells us a little bit about who their

home Lord was you know to make to make

changes or to help these young men and

both the experience they were having and

in the church we needed to talk to

people before they came to us to find

out who they were and what was their

experience and those were frankly great

some of the most fascinating

conversations we'd have because they get

to us and they'd have major changes in

their orientation to the church well

we'll get into that I hope and so we'd

call bishops and things and we'd say you

know Johnny been coming to church she's

been doing this he's been doing that

he's born his testimony he's bringing

friends he'd like to have the priesthood

and the typical reaction from a bishop

would be silence and then it would be

you're talking about Johnny

yeah Johnny yeah yeah I had that

experience actually when I was younger

like that's Greg I don't think so yeah

okay so did you have any idea what

you were getting into at the time I mean

I had a little bit of an idea the

the group was originally organized in

our steak and it was organized if I've

got this right and I may not I think it

was organized by our state president who

is now elder Lance Wickman elder Wickman

is the general counsel for the church

okay and he's been there for quite some

time but he had a background and if

you've ever the name means anything to

you or anybody you'll recognize it from

the talks he's given in conference and

things and he frequently refers to he

was an Army Ranger or Special Forces and

he talked a lot about it and so he had a

special feeling in his heart about this

then the steaks in San Diego started

starting to rotate among

those steaks to fill it but the

personnel who went to this to a branch

came from all steaks they weren't it

wasn't isolated in a particular state so

if the Poway steak had it it wasn't just

Poway people who served there that came

from all over the yeah all over the

region okay so if you get called and you

go into is this does it feel like a

missionary calling is that kind of it

was we were set apart as missionaries

and it was we were service missionary so

it was what it was we were called

originally for 18 months and we ended up

spending almost eight years there mm-hmm

I think they forgot about us and we were

delighted so you go down as a missionary

now the church also sent full-time

church missionaries down there

were military missionaries these were

senior couples and they would come down

they'd serve for a period of about a

year to 18 months depending on what

their calling was but these were people

with prior military experience and they

were also assigned to the base but they

would have other assignments within the

mission and do other things also no is

this a full-time calling it was we

were on base probably three to four days

a week on an average week now it's

speaking to you this morphed into

something yeah really pretty

amazing it really did and what

happened I mean you were there how

long were you there and then how did

this start to change into what really

something were miraculous well what

happened

it was kind of an it it's the classic

story by small and simple means the Lord

starts to accomplish things and the

other piece that we saw very clearly

here is that as we needed things things

would show up the Lord is a master at

giving you the resources that you need

at the time you need it and to do

that when it began we were down and

there was a branch organized and there

was a single branch president who

operated primarily as a branch president

and he did the he did most of the

interviews the typical Bishop per branch

president would do what became obvious

to us

as we as we struggle through that and to

do that was that there were many many

more young men who needed to talk to him

and needed that one-on-one relationship

members of the church it was the church

that just were not getting there so what

happened was is we began to realize that

what we needed here

was not a traditional three member

branch presidency but a branch

presidency that was composed of men who

could hold the keys to be able to do

what was needed for these individuals in

their lives so the branch morphed from a

small organization a very traditional

organization to an organization that

had a branch president that was kind of

a loose term although he operated as

such and then eleven councilors eleven

councilors but all were bishops okay and

we were all former bishops and that's

who we went looking for in session we

slowly moved maybe moved is not the

right word but we slowly watched the

organization morph out of people who did

well did a great job but needed some

keys some understanding and some

experience so you say they had there

were former bishops there was 11 of them

yeah so our what keys do they hold in in

this branch at that point I think you

know once the bishop always a bishop but

yes what are they what are they well we

we just we dealt with all of the issues

than a normal Bishop would happen what

happened is these young men would

come in and their initial companies and

they get in and they'd have an interview

with us we tried to interview everybody

who came in and during that interview

we'd established what was needed to them

well our goal was the question we wanted

to answer was really two things one was

is what ordinance to these need to these

young men need what's the next ordinance

they need in some cases it was the

sacrament some cases it was baptism some

cases it was the priesthood what was the

next ordinance they needed and how do we

get them there and to be able to do that

we needed to have the keys to be able to

to do that and that's it I mean just

sorry to interject that that is a great

approach because I mean what you're

saying is that their progression then

completely depended on getting to the

next step things that the next ordinance

precisely and so you saw the ordinances

as progression yeah for each of them

that's what we nets what we wanted to be

able to

and the other thing we needed them to

see in it to understand is that we

understood very quickly and very clearly

that the traditional church unit was not

going to be something that they were

going to be a part of for quite a while

they were gonna leave that particular

training base and they were going to end

up in places in far-flung places in the

world that where traditional units just

simply didn't exist so we had to train

them and teach them on some basis on

some level about how to get be both

comfortable and be able to sit down and

say okay I've got three guys here who

are members of the church we're gonna

hold a sacrament meeting how do I do

that

mmm do I do with it so we learned very

quickly that the ordinances of the of

the branch could not be performed by us

who understood it needed to be

performed by the recruits and by the

Marines that were there so we gathered

the missionaries and everybody who I can

still remember this meeting we gathered

everybody together and sat down with

them and said we have to stop doing

ordinances here the ordinances that need

to be done in this branch need to be

done by fellow recruits so if you've got

somebody who wants to be baptized find a

recruit to do it if you want somebody

who's going to be you know confirmed a

member of the church ordained priesthood

you got to get somebody which is which

is the way it should be you know it's

interesting I had this is again this is

a personal opinion but and everybody

does this differently but when my

youngest daughter was eight years old

and she was getting baptized yeah I had

my son do it right and it's like he was

a priest yeah and sometimes you know

you might say well I'm the father and I

wanted to do that and that's fine I

understand that but my perspective on

that was I thought it would be just as

special for my daughter to have her

brother who they were very close you

know how to have him baptized her yeah

but for him you know two and one great

to have that and to do that early on

exactly I thought I mean that's what a

priest is supposed to do right is to

baptize so I really appreciate that I

think that's great it's almost like you

had a boot camp boot camp training

center yeah in in place of an MTC there

right because they're going off into a

off into a mission for five years yeah

it depends on what their contract was

then it would be anywhere from four to

six okay but that's exactly what we

tried to do now it was interesting

because we'd always stand in the circle

to perform the ordinance and I have to

say to you there were many many times

that we'd be whispering in the young

man's ear who was performing the

ordinance about how do I want to say it

what to do sure it was so fun because it

would culminate in the thought of okay

now go ahead and give him a blessing and

the blessings that we heard were just

astounding they were not they certainly

didn't have the verbiage and they didn't

have the I don't know what the word I'm

looking for is but the protocol the

protocol of the traditions of what we

would normally say sure but the heart

and the fell and the feeling and the

spirit was just overpowering I mean it

was it was a very cool thing but our

objective there was just to make sure

that that they left that place with

a number of experiences and we can talk

about that but also that they had a

fundamental understanding of how to do

what they needed to do you know it's a

it was a it was an eye-opening

experience to look at that group as a

former Bishop and not see a priest

quorum

hmm but see young men who were going to

you know battlefields for at least

mostly 18 19 year olds these were all

eight seven basically 17 to 21 was what

they were most of them were 18 19 and

these were kids that were right out of

high school I mean we'd have you know I

we'd sit down that first interview and

we'd say well you know tell us about you

know where did you come from when I

graduated from high school last week now

I'm here you know June June 5th I

graduated the end of the world yeah I'm

in and in a way they'd go we just had a

major objective to make sure what that

happened and that takes some education

to church leaders to be very candid you

know as bishops you know that the you

know the prototype is that we do it you

know we make it happen we're the ones

who stand in there you know and the

missionaries are the same way mm-hmm you

know missionaries they love they've

taught them they you know they've

experienced the growth and things that

they've seen with these people they love

them appropriately so

and they want to perform these

ordinances and so they come to us and

they'd say well you know so-and-so here

is requested that he get baptized we can

talk about that request in a minute if

you'd like but as soon as I wants to get

baptized you know he want me to do it

you know you have to put your arm around

the missionary and you'd say you know

elder that's wonderful I'm glad that

you've got that relationship with him

but it's much more important that one of

his platoon members do it because he'll

be with him at 14 weeks and then you

won't be right right and it's important

that those bonds get built and those

established and the Marine Corps did a

spectacular job of creating that

dependency and that that love for one

another they did not be sure they'd

probably shut her a little bit if I told

them that they'd let that happen but

that's what it was well that's actually

an interesting point because I don't

know I mean I don't I want to go there

but even anyone in a mission right

now the missionary is going to be gone

yeah I don't know if it's not such the

worst idea in the world that someone in

the ward yeah does that actually does

that you know and you know you do build

a special relationship on your mission

with your converts obviously but if you

could help build the relationship with

someone in the ward I don't know that's

an interesting thought yeah so let's

talk about that a little bit some of

these changes so you have a branch

president and you have eleven councilors

yeah and I think you said at one point

you were operating in a one room yeah

everything that occurred in the in the

on Sunday and the church occurred inside

this one instruction room and it was a

very traditional classroom it was a

sloped floor came down to a chalkboard

at the end had had it probably seated I

don't know maybe three five hundred

people all so large it was a big room

and in that room everything that was

going on was going on I'll tell you Greg

I used to stand at the back sometimes

and just sort of pinch myself because in

one there'd be missionary scattered all

across that would be teaching individual

not just not just non-members but

members of the church also we taught

missionaries so a number of them yeah

well we had actually yeah we'd usually

have

anywhere from four to six sets six

companionships that would come oh wow

and the mission presence gave us great

missionaries I mean we got the we got

the top guys not that leadership means

that you're the top guy right right well

we got the assistance we got the zone

leaders and we got others who came in

but we'd watched them teaching out there

and in fact and there were so many

people to teach that they didn't teach

in pairs because they were in a single

room sure I could see their companion

they didn't have to teach in

companionships

which was a fascinating so wait a minute

so you have four to six missionary

companionship so you had eight to twelve

eight ten twelve so and each of them

sometimes or at least few of them are

teaching individually most of them are

so all of them maybe so you have you

know 1012 missionaries individually yeah

teaching ten plus people yeah at a time

yes so there's that much activity oh

yeah that cycle repeated itself over I

mean in a given church period where are

these people coming from they're coming

out of the recruits they're coming from

the from the guys that are there in

there to be trained the guys that

are in there being trained that are 17

18 19 years old they're spreading the

gospel oh yeah let's go back and talk

about what happens before they sure

let's do that go ahead let's let me give

you a it's a fascinating glimpse into

that whole world they get picked up from

the airport or wherever they're coming

in the Marine Corps pays their fair in

to San Diego mm-hm and when they get

there there's a bus that shows up and

picks everybody up and they all get on

the bus and sometimes they have one

sometimes they have two buses and the

bus pulls onto the base and stops in

front of a big hall outside of which is

a whole bunch of yellow footprints and

if you talk to any marine and mention

the yellow footprints don't know exactly

what they are they're traditional

they're yellow they're literally

footprints that are painted on the

sidewalk right outside the bus stop and

all of them get off all the recruits get

off and stand on one of those set of

footprints and that's been going on at

that base since the early 1900s 1907 I

think was

first time somebody stood on those

footprints and they're told a little bit

about military conduct and then it's a

very short thing but from that point on

their life is just filled with noise

chaos a dark it's dark a lot of times or

even dark dark in terms of just a

difficult place to be and it's and

sometimes would border what on what

people would say is brutal mm-hmm I mean

it's a varies the military it's a very

focused system of getting them to

understand who they are mm-hmm

they come off of the yellow footprints

and they go inside the building and then

what happens to them and this is uh this

this starts about nine o'clock at night

on Thursday Thursday or Friday night and

they go into the they go into a central

place and everything they've got is

taken away from them okay now told not

to bring anything with them but these

are young kids these are people these

are 17 18 19 year olds and of course

that couldn't possibly mean that they

did leave their cell phone at home but

nevertheless that's exactly what happens

and so they take everything off and they

put everything in a cardboard box and

they write an address on it

letting course ships it out gets rid of

it they got nothing and they're given a

complete uniform then they're taken over

to the barber and given a very stylish

haircut then they're brought back in

again and they're issued some other

other equipment minor things then they

get to make a call home and every one of

them talks about their call home they've

been up at this point by now it's

probably midnight 1:00 2:00 in the

morning and they're still you know being

harassed this is the first day this is

the very first day and there's a phone

bank that they all call home from and

they stand there and they have somewhere

between 13 and 17 seconds to make that

phone call and actually there's a card

above the above the phone that they're

that they're read and what it basically

says is you know hello this is

recruit last name you know I've arrived

at the Marine Corps Depot I'm safe and

that's it full-time they're saying that

there's a drill sergeant right here

screaming at them to get off the phone

so it's a it's a very quick thing so the

bottom is that

and they'll go they'll continue with

this until they come to church and it's

just this harsh you know pointed

environment well by the time they get to

church they're shell-shocked I mean

they're I don't think there's one in a

hundred

that isn't trying to figure out at that

point how to get out of this mm-hmm they

do not want to be there anymore they're

just they're finished and so they know

how many days would this be what do they

usually christen be this is probably 48

hours out of they've got off the bus

when they come into church and that's

the beginning and they come

understanding and kind of realizing that

they need something significantly so

they need some significant force outside

themselves to get through this and for a

lot of them it's a brand new thought you

know there's no idea that there's been

no real understanding of that for a lot

of them and a realization but they come

in at that point into the into the

church service and then that's where

everything begins that first week is

unique for them they come in as a

group how often are they coming in they

come in almost every week the recruit

the new recruits yeah we get a

new company every week almost every week

sometimes there's 13 companies in the

Marine Corps and then they get we get

them almost every week and after that

first week the standards are not the

standards are relaxed but they're their

movement is relaxed a little bit and

they come to Churchill's alone with it

but the first week they come with their

drill sergeant and their drill sergeant

marches a man puts them up against the

wall of the bulkhead as they say and

he'll point it I used to give them what

was called the welcome speech and they

point at me and say okay you listen to

everything this guy says and obey Him

and you know do nothing else and do not

leave this room until you see me again

is that understood yes sir is barked

back and that's how it begins rude

awakening it's a very rude awakening so

so they're coming in and they're

starting to realize that life is not

going to be what they thought it was you

know they're okay with their recruiter

but they wonder now if the recruiter

told them anything that was true and so

the procedure so the process kind of

begins there you know there's a lot of

directions I could go from here but

but just to follow the development of

their process once they've once

they've come in we try and then

interview every one of them what's

unique about it is they feel a marked

difference between what was outside that

door and what's inside the door and that

is almost revelatory to them and to us

to be very candid they walk through the

door and they realize that what's inside

is just a totally different environment

that what-what was outside and so we

used to start I'd start the talk by

saying welcome to the Church of Jesus

Christ of latter-day saints Marine Corps

Recruit Depot military branch and I

would say 80% of them had tears coming

down their cheeks at that point it just

was so powerful and so impactful and it

was a fascinating insight to hear you

know many years later President Nelson's

change on the name of the church I felt

we really felt like we saw that and

understood that so clearly and what they

were feeling is the difference between

the two environments from there we'd

conduct a simple interview with them we

tried to interview everybody that came

so we talked to all of them so basically

what that first week was pretty

important in the whole process because

it gave us it established we got the

information we needed to pull their

church records first of all which was

important to us and secondly we had an

opportunity to start to talk to them

about what the objectives were and one

of the questions we'd ask them is

that you know we'd say well what do you

think the Lord wants you to learn in the

next 13 weeks and that was a new thought

to a lot of them they hadn't really

considered that the Lord necessarily

wanted them to learn anything mm-hmm

and so they would think about that

and we'd get answers to that question

sometimes weeks later as they'd start to

look at that but the circumstances that

they were in gave them kind of a unique

opportunity to take a look at their

lives in many ways

I'm sure bishops all over the world wish

they could send their priests quorum to

boot camp because it would have been it

helps them kind of prioritize a lot of

fathers yes

but what was interesting about it is

that we used to do tongue-in-cheek tell

them if they were in the Garden of Eden

mmm and say you you've just entered the

Garden of Eden I mean in the room yeah

you may not you may not think you've hit

the Garden of Eden but let's take

a look at what circumstances you find

yourself in and we'll talk about it the

bottom is that there's no temptation

here you know if you had a problem

before you came in with you know alcohol

tobacco whatever some substance you

don't have it anymore you don't have

access to it it's gone if you had a

problem you had a girlfriend you were a

little too close to and you had a

challenge there that's gone you don't

have that anymore she's not here you had

a media issue you know the computer or

pornography or something else that's

gone none of that stuff is available to

you now and the truth is that all you

have to do is just sort of follow

instructions you don't have to really

think a lot for yourself either so

you're kind of in this Garden of

Eden situation and this will allow you

to make some significant changes in your

life if you choose to because you'll be

here long enough that some of these

things will lose their hold that they

have on you now they're gonna be back

when you get out there's no question

about that but you do have an

opportunity to reexamine things and to

look at things very very differently

than what you were before so let's so

start thinking about that so Graham is

this all taking is are you're up at the

front of the room no this is with an

individual all this is per individual

per individual we're talking to we're

talking to individual people here and we

also got an understanding of you know

once they hear that and understand

that they started to think through it I

started to look at the experience a

little bit differently perhaps the

second thing is that the whole

objective of the Marine Corps boot camp

is really to instill three things in

these young men and these are not the

words that they'd use but you'll see

very quickly the dovetail that happens

with the gospel they wanted the Marine

Corps wants warriors of instant

obedience that care much more about the

guy on their left and their right than

they do themselves that's the

whole objective of what they do the

Marine Corps is

Nikken in one case in that the

weapon of the Marine Corps is the Marine

mm-hmm and the other services its

other things the Air Force obviously

it's some kind of plane it's a it's a

plane in the Navy it's a boat you know

the army it's some kind of mechanized

artillery and other things but the

weapon of the Marine Corps is the Marine

now the Marine Corps

has these other accoutrements to it and

do it but the fundamental issue is

it's the marine who's the weapon

and that's what they're looking for and

that's what they want and so because

they're looking for you know warriors of

instant obedience who care about left

and right what that dovetails into is

humility obedience and sacrifice and

that's really the process they take them

through so they break them down through

a process of mostly physical training

and push them way beyond what a lot of

their what a lot of the ideas that they

thought they could get through and that

and that's done on through physical

training through obstacle courses they

have a big confidence course or oh

courses they called it on base and this

is the process that they get into they

get very little sleep they're going to

bed at 10:30 11 12 o'clock at night

they're getting up at 3 4 5 in the

morning and so they're just constantly

in this case of being broken down and

this is how it begins and by the time

they come to us on that first week at

church the contrast they feel in between

those two environments is staggering to

them and so they start to think about

what it is and what they want to do one

of the objectives that we had when we

first start talking with them is to

teach them how to pray one of the

primary things we wanted them to do was

to have a spiritual experience in boot

camp that they could remember we wanted

them talking about what happened to them

there and what happens to them there can

only be termed miraculous in thinking

about what they need because this really

would apply to every anybody outright is

and you wanted to first start with

prayer yeah so whoa that was because you

wanted them to have spiritual experience

we wanted them to be able to understand

who their Heavenly Father was and the

piece of knowledge that we wanted to

give them was who they were we'd start

out usually with a conversation about

them being a son of God

and this was everybody this didn't miss

we these remembers the church and

non-members of the church everybody got

the same talk everybody haven't talked

about non-members yet so you're you

have non-members coming in about thirty

percent of what we who he had were not

members of the church you know everybody

needed to understand and have that and

and what was fascinating about that what

was so cool about that is that once

they began to understand who they were

they began to get an a glimpse of the

fact that if there was a if they were a

son of God and that rang true with them

they could understand who God was and

with that as a basis of just a little

piece of knowledge they could start to

develop faith and trust in their father

in heaven and it would build from there

and it would it would it was like

opening up a floodgate you take a

fundamental group of people in that

circumstance that's humble obedient and

willing to sacrifice and the Lord is

unrestrained I mean it's like in a

lot of ways without going too far it's

like the brother of Jared mm-hmm

you know he cannot be held inside the

veil mm-hmm it's just it's just an

extraordinary experience and so we talk

to them about and you're seeing this day in

and day out we watched this day in and day

out that we were down there every Sunday

we'd see it and we'd see it over such a

compressed period of time in their lives

we just watch this we watch this

development take place we just see that

thing you know begin and run through it

what was so cool about it and what was

so fascinating about it is that to a

lot of these young men prayer was not

something that they'd experienced ever

mm-hmm many of them had had no idea how

to pray I remember if I could share

with you just one quick story I remember

this young man who came in and I'd sat

down with him and I told him he talked

to me and he says you know I don't know

if I believe there's a god you know I

said that's fine I said I just hope

you'll come to church I said you'll find

some peace and comfort here and just

come to church you'll be fine

you know it's ok I can do that and so

the conversation progressed and I got to

a point I said you know it'll help you

if you'll say your prayers I know you're

not used to praying but can I talk to

you about how to pray

and so I walked him through them just a

fundamental four steps of Prayer got to

the end and he looked at me but just you

could almost see that you could almost

see the faith descending on him

and he looked at me and he said he said

he'll really do that

the answered prayer I said yeah he will

you'll get that just yeah I'll do that

yes sir they always yeah it was always a

very quick thing and he sat there for a

while and he thought about it and you

could just see that he was taking that

him and he looked up at me he said

because they referred to themselves in

the third person he said and sir how

long would you like this recruit to pray

so it was just this beautiful transition

of watching that happen and because we

talked to them every week in the

subsequent weeks we'd ask them about

that you know did you pray this week

what happened how did it how did it come

through you know what and then they tell

us the stories and the stories were just

miraculous so that that was the intake

that was the first week and then after

that we talked to him every week and

just sort of see that come through it

was interesting too because so they were

probably looking forward oh yank yeah

they get to church it was so funny now

they were at home that may not be the

case I mean there was no question we

were not under any misgiving that this

was a humility that was not forced upon

this is 32 33 somewhere in there okay

yeah this this is no question about the

huh you know these are the guys that are

outside the synagogue yeah I can't get

in and are trying to figure out what it

does I know no illusions there at all or

no misgivings about what that was but

what was so fun about it was that we

would watch them slowly come to the

realization of some of these thoughts

and concepts and understand it and

they'd get two points because of the

physical nature that they were because

the physical stresses that they were

feeling that they'd start to pray and

they'd feel these things instantly kick

in and they'd feel a difference I mean

we constantly I don't mean to trivialize

this in any way but we constantly heard

stories of people picking them up

literally picking them up their packs

being lifted off their head they off

their backs and turning around and

looking to see who was helping them and

nobody was there we heard those things

over and over and over again there's an

experience they have at the end of their

training and a camp called the crucible

and what it is really is its combat

simulation and they go through three

days of this and it's hammering to

them it really is and that crucible that

that was the place that all these things

happen I mean we heard that constantly

in that in that whole process but these

young men bless their heart they just

they started to get a glimpse of who

that was and what was so powerful what

was so cool about that is that these

were the stories they'd start telling

each other so these kids would come to

church your question was what when do

they come to church sorry this is that's

okay it's perfect the point is that

is that they would start to experience

these things and see them and feel

Church would open our services were 8:30

to approximately 10:30 but they had Chow

early in the morning at about 6:30 and

they could come to church any time they

wanted after that so they'd be lined up

at 6:30 in the morning two hours ahead

of Clayton to come into church and we'd

open up the building and RP would open

it up or what an experience that's

amazing they would open up and they you

know they'd let everybody in and they

stay at 1100 they had to be back out of

the building again so 1100 they'd stay

until you know 10:58 then they then

they'd then they'd exit and we had 11

counselors there were two women that

served down there one was my wife and

another bishops wife that served

and we took the administrative tasks of

the branch and frankly we laid that on

their steps bless their hearts they

taught

I'm not hesitate to even say this we had

a female sister who was our word mission

leader okay I know that doesn't comply

and probably you know there's well

you're not really in a complying

environment

my wife taught priesthood a lot of times

oh sure sure that's what it was

and so there was just this this focus on

I'm getting these young men there but

but they come to church early they'd

help you set up they do it effect you

had to be careful we'd set up the

sacrament you know we'd ask you know if

you generically said that to a group not

the entire group and rush up to set the

sacrament up and half of them were

not ever to the church right other half

didn't have the appropriate priesthood

and so you were constantly saying okay

wait a minute how do we how do we get

this in because there was such a strong

desire to be obedient uh-huh and to

to be able to understand that and you

aim that I mean that's got to be from

the military experience oh I mean it's

just it's starting to mold them it is

yeah yeah and because you don't usually

see that in seventeen and I know and

that's the story of the beginning of our

conversation about you know the bishops

you know you'd call up and you'd say you

know anyway you know he'd say well I was

trying to talk to him for like five

months before he left

yeah I couldn't but they were just so

enthusiastic about it but they but they

would have these experiences and they

would talk about it with one another so

the power of testimony became real clear

Lois you know to have him do that

we started every meeting by asking three

or four of them to bear their

testimonies and to talk about their week

and what they'd experienced and those

were also very very moving things about

about the implications there was a

fascinating development that occurred

with them and it goes back a little bit

to some of the hierarchy you've been

lucky you've talked about so often and

you're in your cat blogs or your vlogs

where we see them they would start with

humility and they'd start to be realized

that you know it maybe they didn't know

everything they needed to know and that

would develop into obedience okay so

you'd hear a truth in gospel terms not

military terms you'd hear a truth you'd

start to live it and as soon as you'd

start to live it an interesting thing

happened to them they'd start to become

concerned primarily about themselves and

they would look there and then the next

step was they start to look outside and

to look outside usually required some

kind of sacrifice and that happened

almost immediately I mean we

we were constantly being told of stories

of young men who were sacrificing

significantly to allow others to

experience training to help them one of

the things that we would set up for them

to do that is we would tell them at the

simplest way to get through this

experience was to say your prayers and

secondly to find somebody to help so

find somebody to help get through this

experience and see if you can if you can

get them there and that would that would

that would give him a lot of that

strength but we saw that build but it

was a fascinating evolution to watch

them go from being primarily self

centered individuals to individuals who

really did care a lot more about who was

on their left and right than themselves

and that you know had some pretty

you know pretty sobering realizations

for us because we realized where these

kids were gone this was not a Scout

Troop we were moving you know these were

young men who were gonna go into combat

you know the Marine Corps is a

relatively small organization and the

goal of the Marine Corps is to put

Marines in combat and so they were gonna

be on a battlefield probably at some

point in their life and so it was

important to them to understand that

concept in that principle and it's

a gospel principle idiot right I mean

it's funny how I mean obviously the

preparation of the military especially

the Marine Corps where you are your

primary goal is to watch out for

somebody else

just serve somebody else to protect

somebody else and to look outside of

yourself and all of that is a gospel

principle yeah that probably there's

nowhere else that you learn it with that

much or urgency yeah and that's a great

consequence yeah right I mean it's

it's reality that you're that you've got

a face yeah there were no trophies out

there for participation the fact that

you were there and in fact you showed up

and half-heartedly did anything didn't

get you anywhere yeah you know and there

was some fascinating just subtle things

that the Corps would do to help them see

that you know they had a uniform like

that Kami's and their uniform was

buttoned up and they told him how to

wear it they had to wear the buttons

button all the way up at the top

they had a specific way they could roll

their sleeves that their cuffs on their

pants how to lace their boots where

their socks had to be everything was

detailed out for them and when they

accomplished certain things these the

uniform changed ever so slightly you

know the top button came undone once

they passed initial drill and you'd

have thought that they'd won an Olympic

gold medal it was just so refreshing to

see exactly what you're talking about

that that whole that whole piece of

that you know the your point about them

wanting to serve others and to and to

grow in that is an interesting thought

we had a young I had a young man who

came in 17 years old came from a small

town in Utah and came into the Corps

came from a good home he was a bright

kid he had scholarships to both big

schools in Utah BYU and University

of Utah had a lot of just didn't feel

like as he shared with me just didn't

feel like anybody would listen to him if

he went on a mission so he had to so he

tried to figure out a way to get out of

a mission it came home at 17 in the last

semester of high school and announced to

his parents he'd just joined the Marine

Corps he said his mother literally cried

for months this is it

this is a great family a good that we

know them quite well we know this young

man very well still have contact with

him anyway he finished he went

through his Marine training and he came

in and of course the first week you know

the whole world descended on him and he

began to wonder what he'd done the

interview I happened to draw him and

he's in the interview he came and he

said you know yeah he said I just I

don't know what I've done you know I

said well it's okay

I said don't worry about that right now

there's nobody here who feels like they

know what they've done mm-hmm I said

this is a constant this is a common

thought what you need to understand is

that you're going to be able to get

through this you're going to need to tap

some resources that you didn't you

haven't tap perhaps previewed previously

in your life but they're available to

you and you can use them and they will

get

there so just relax and this feeling

will be with you here for two to three

weeks so don't stay in the moment you

need to look forward on where you're

heading and being able to do that so he

promised me he would do that but every

week he'd come back second week he came

back to church and he sat down with me

and just so tender he says he said to me

I don't feel like I'm accepted of the

Lord I said he said I said I need to

know what to do to be accepted of the

Lord so will you give me a blessing so I

did and gave him a blessing and he went

through that every week he came he came

back with that request to be people what

do I need to do to be accepted of the

Lord and so we talk about that a little

bit and we move on there was a

fascinating evolution that began to

occur as he began to understand that and

look at his life he began to reach

outside of himself and bring other

people and so this young man who was

convinced that nobody would listen to

him in the mission field hmm okay

brought his rack mates his other people

to church with him brought them back a

number of them requested baptism we

didn't we cannot proselyte we don't

solicit that requested baptism he

baptized them and went through it the

whole thing came down to the crucible he

still had this nagging feeling that he

felt like he is that at the very end of

a very end of boot camp it's the last

week the last week it could it's called

the crucible for good for good reason it

came to me about two weeks before he

entered the crucible he says I want the

Melchizedek Priesthood and I said okay I

said what why do you feel that way what

tell me about that is I want the

Melchizedek Priesthood because I want

the ability to bless the lives of other

people and I want to be able to see

other people as the Lord sees them you

gain some insight so he gets into the

crucible and in the crucible I do a lot

of you know crazy things and there's a

very little sleep no food they get

minimum number of meals and just kind of

keep them all going hike hundreds of

miles on this in the Pendleton with

packs that go to 80 pounds it's just

really tough

so he gets they have huts all over the

place and he's in this training and in

the tuts they take them in and they talk

to them about different cores and value

of core values of the Marine Corps and

they'll usually do it by just simply

speaking with them about people who they

admire Basilone is one of them which

may be a maintenance you know being a

Southern California boy you remember

Basilone road driving through penile

really talk about that what these guys

have done they went into these huts and

when they go into the huts they had

their weapons and things with them and

they'd lean their rifles up against this

side of the hut and they go anthem so

they went in and a drill sergeant spoke

to them and got him through it and they

came back out and one of the recruits

and he's still not sure it was actually

recruited had turned their weapon upside

down and placed the bayonet in the

ground and leaned it up against the

building and all the rest of them were

the other way and so the drill sergeant

began to pronounce a series of

punishments that would happen to these

guys and they were significant and he

said I listened to it and I listened to

it he says I realized that the guys

in my squad were not gonna be able to do

this what this guy was pronouncing just

was not gonna end well and he sat there

and he listened to it and he finally

decided he said he thought to himself I

can do this I can take this and so he

stepped forward and he said that's my

that's my rifle sir and he and he took

the punishment you know he says no I

didn't do it I don't know to this day

who did it and how it got that way but I

took the punishment he said when I did

and I got all done he says and they

did it

I carried ammo cans that were full and

everything else through that of course

he said when I got done he said I just I

felt a confirmation of that's what it

means to be accepted of the Lord

you look after and you protect the weak

and you look after and love the men that

are there and he said you know I became

an adult but the crucible I understood

what that meant where that came from

mm-hmm so it was just a just a

fascinating what a metamorphosis

these guys in a short period of time -

to change who they are and again I

think that the coming face to face with

I mean all of us all right I mean we all

have a position where we're all kind of

in a Garden of Eden and we come down to

life and it's probably not exactly what

we imagined right yeah I could do that

sure yeah but you know to bring that in

and laser focus it into 13 weeks and

have these massive changes you can see

how someone who's broken down really

broken down through this military

experience it's gonna be more open and

receptive to the spirit yeah and

humility obedience and sacrifice

sacrifice it's just it's a it's an maybe

there should be a church program yeah

sure I know how to implement it yeah it

would be fascinating to kind of watch

that go through I mean it just dove

tailed so powerfully and so well I mean

we just saw it extended beyond that

into the concept of Zion because they

began to be concerned about the group

also mm-hmm I mean when this young man

you know did this when he stepped

forward and said I'll do it he was

trying to protect the whole group he was

he was he was doing a total sure he was

on a different level didn't know who it

was

you know no individual wasn't someone he

thought was his best friend or a buddy

you know it was just something that he

knew he needed to do and he could do

that and because he in a way that's it

that's anonymous it's not him that's

anonymous but right it's like yeah I

don't know who this is

and yet it's somebody in my group yeah

the Corps has these guys called prayer

leaders this young man happened to

volunteer to be a prayer leader what

what it's interesting what the Corps

does is they want general Biermann

who's that who was the commanding

officer of the base he may still be

there I don't know if he's been rotated

out but he gave a talk one time to us

and we were with what we'd had an

opportunity to attend

and he talked about this concept of

faith-based warriors he said you know

primarily in the world right now we're

fighting faith-based warriors or at

least people who profess faith mm-hmm

and we need the other side of that

we need to have faith-based warriors in

our in our group also and it was a

fascinating insight to us to listen to

that and hear his interest his

perspective on that so they have prayer

leaders in each of these platoons each

platoon has a prayer leader that's

identified among the group from a

particular faith identified by the drill

sergeant or whose faith the faith calls

them the faith is awesome but it is a

marine position so we would say we want

these two young men to be faithfully

we'd be prayer leaders okay for him and

then they could they would go out and

they would participate in that and what

they did and you've all the face did it

they were about there are probably 11 or

12 face on base and they covered the

spectrum there was there's everything

from excuse me Buddhism to you know

fundamental Christians to Catholicism

Greek Orthodox it was all there so they

were prayer leaders and what the prayer

leaders job was is at the end of every

day the drill sergeants left them alone

gave them time to have prayer together

which was just I mean I came from a

non-military background you know I grew

up in the 60s I you know it just wasn't

there regret the decision quite candidly

after this experience but nevertheless

did not did not go and so they would

give him time to have prayer and so they

would call these prayer leaders together

so that / leaders would they huddle in

groups around their barracks and Marine

Corps calls their barracks houses but in

the house they'd bring them together and

they pray he talked about the evolution

of his prayer he said you know when I

started to do this when I first

volunteered to be a prayer leader which

terrified him he said I would pray

generically I would pray that we would

be okay that we all would do okay he

said well what happened to me as I went

through this and this was in the

conversation about desiring the

Melchizedek Priesthood he said I started

to pray for individuals he said and I

noticed that when I started to pray for

individuals those individual

began to change them back and so they

would come they'd follow him to church

they get up in the morning and say where

are you going I'm going over here to

there

you know the LDS service of the Mormon

service Church of Jesus Christ of

latter-day Saint service and they'd

follow him in and they come with him and

that was a powerful message to us sure

you know of what happens there when this

specificity starts to go to that level

and begin to move them in there is

there ways you have this branch are they

they're all given normal callings no

mister no okay no they only call him

there's only three callings there's a

priesthood teacher a member of the

council a member of the bishopric or the

branch Presidency and award mission

leader okay

none of which fit the bill of what

a normal branch was yeah because we had

a number of general authorities that

would visit the branch even sometimes

they'd come down they'd be there on

different assignments and they would

come and it was it was amazing to

see their reaction to whom was going on

there and what was a reaction he loved

spirit profound that most of them said

you know we this is something we've not

seen mm-hmm we have not experienced this

it really is an outlier right way in the

church I mean it's I haven't heard

of this yeah it's something like this

going on and it sounds like it may not

it may be an outlier in the military in

the military yeah I think I I think

there are obviously good steaks and

people everywhere but it was just a

unique situation that happened we were

given resources as we need them by the

okay but wait why did that why is it

an outlier

what was it that made the difference

there that may have been similar in

another military environment they know

that there wasn't that where this kind

of thing didn't happen I don't know that

I know the answer completely to that my

supposition is that it's a difficult

place to get people to serve as crazy as

that sounds and with some chagrin I have

to admit to you that we were reluctant

when we first got it the other thing

that happens I think is that you

change your attitude about who you're

listening to who you're who you're

talking to and who's attending

Church it's very very difficult for a

leader of the church that has had

significant callings or had callings

where they've been responsible for youth

or for other people to walk into a

congregation of 17 18 19 year olds and

not first of all think why aren't they

on missions hmm why isn't that happening

here mm hmm you know what this really is

is just a master plan for repentance is

it a plan to change them and what

happens very quickly to you is those

judges robes start to come off mm-hmm

and you throw them away and you realize

that what you're dealing with has

nothing to do with that portion of

what's going on you know these by in

large part and there were different

populations there let me just make that

clear there when then when the mission

age changed we got a lot more returned

missionaries and talk about a light

that stood out these young men were just

extraordinary I mean we'd give them

teaching opportunities and they would

take young men who were deacons or

teachers that needed the gospel that

would get taught to them and they we

watched them just do miraculous things

with these young men hmm but what we

realized was that there was a

significant population of these young

men that were there that were from there

were members of the church that that

missions were for lack of a better word

missions were just never in their DNA

you know these weren't kids who grew up

with family prayer they never had they

never had family home evening in fact it

was it was unfortunately a very routine

thing to ask a young man about his

family and be told that one of the two

parents was incarcerated mm-hmm you know

dad's in prison mom died you know so

many years ago and you know

isn't there anymore was being raised by

a family member a brother or a sister or

somebody else that was quite open about

am i quite loose with any kind of those

common yeah that was very common we just

didn't see you know we just saw over and

over again so it what a mission have

helped them no question you know it

would have been great if they could have

been on a mission but you need to lose

the judgment that comes to look at that

group

say you know this is a this is a

defective group in some fashion because

they're not where the church would

expect them to be and you just you

give that away you walk away from that

and it's with a certain amount of

chagrin and embarrassment I even admit

to you that because we saw so clearly

that did not apply to these young men

wasn't this was a different this was a

markedly different population than who

that was and these were great young men

we have a 17 year old come in and this

circumstance was a deacon

and that those were kind of the thing

that's why we needed the church

memberships one badly because we could

look at him and we could say if we had a

18 year old kid who was a deacon we knew

that we had an opportunity there yeah so

it's one of the distinct differences

also then is that you had a branch he

did we had a right and third of these

groups yeah everywhere else so we could

get it in fact we modified we modified a

lot of the breasts but we modified the

branch even to the point of this was

when we first started computers for

membership were only located in the

church buildings mm-hmm what we got was

it was a laptop that we could take on

the base with us so that we could pull

their records right then and there

so we'd find out their names they'd sign

in and give us a minimal amount of

information we just needed their name

and birthdate and we could find their

church membership and we'd bring it in

so we know right from the get-go there

was you used the word urgency earlier

there was a huge sense of urgency we had

13 weeks to get done what we needed to

do we could not miss steps we had to

have it had to have it nailed that did

you have you know you got to destroy

here but 13 weeks then so you're

starting to figure out as you're going

through this that you've got to have a

branch you've got to have membership

records to get this going right was

there something that you kind of kind of

developed over a period of time that

said okay these 13 weeks we need this

and this to happen at

least from our end to try and help them

progress before they get out of here

yeah there was like a boot camp agenda

yeah for the branch yeah absolutely and

it was the ordinances drove it

okay it was it was okay this is

this young man's a deacon let's

get him ordained a priest mm-hmm if this

young man hasn't taken the sacrament and

in quite a while

let's find out why let's get it let's

get him through that let's get him to

take the sacrament how many how many

recruits are we talking about after

after your first week well I mean

I mean after your you know you've

obviously you go for this after your

first thirteen weeks yeah you know

consistently what are you looking at as

far as how many recruits are attending

the branch services each week we would

have we would it depended a little bit

on the year on the time of the year we

would we would fill much more so in the

beginning this summer sure after

graduation we drop a little bit more

around Christmas although the

Marine Corps bless their heart we had

new companies on Christmas Eve that's

that's wait a day that's either

commitment or yes we and some of the

best Christmases we spent we're down at

they're pretty cool we would have on an

average of around 200 to 300 recruits oh

wow so that's big group who's got

two to three hundred and again in

filling this 500 capacity room for 500

capacity room that's huge yeah we and I

mean that's more than you get it a

sacrament meeting yes

when is it was we were running we

there's no other word for it and I'm

here to tell you are they they're all

there in their camouflage jammies yeah

so you've got this huge yeah what I owe

that what a beautiful scene I mean

honestly yeah it's just that's

incredible yeah it really was it really

really really was but yeah they were all

there in there camis and that that's

amazing that's where they they'd go yeah

so you had a story about the well I was

gonna tell you a little bit of a 17 year

old come in and had that typical

background you know I think his mother

was incarcerated and I don't think he

knew who his father was

mhm no he did know he was father was

because it was his grandmother he looked

after ok so here's this story he come he

comes in he came in at 17 years old his

father was responsible for his mother

his care and his

it would be the young man's grandmother

suffered from some beginning stages of

Alzheimer's and was not in good shape

but his dad was receiving support and it

wasn't going to his grandmother mm-hmm

this kids 17 years old mm-hmm so he goes

over to his grandmother discovers this

reports his dad to the to the

authorities okay the authorities come in

and essentially with good intentions I'm

sure basically accomplished nothing

mm-hmm okay just gets left alone so the

middle of the middle of his last year of

high school middle of his last semester

he moves in with his grandmother to take

care of her and he cares for his

grandmother during that time period and

he realizes very rapidly that he doesn't

have the capability of being able to

look after her so he looks for some

source to take care of her and he runs

into a Marine recruiter he joins the

Marine Corps after he joins the Marine

Corps he takes his papers to the local

assisted care living center and he gives

them his papers and he says I will

guarantee her payment if you'll take her

and that's what he did people like that

are incredible I mean that kind of a

background where does that come from

that's what you have to think where does

that if you're not getting that from

your parents no you know he's our best

friend where are you getting that from

that's who these that's who these kids

were that's who they were and you

know so he went in and everything year

and went assisted care living the cool

thing about it is the Lord gave us a

resource there were a number of

different battalions in the on the base

and one was called the headquarters

battalion and I won't bore you with what

that means but we had the senior officer

or the chief on the CEO a commanding

officer the headquarters battalion was a

member of the church and when we found

out he was on base of course we and he

was annexed bishop we tapped him

immediately and brought him in

and he just he took the whole thing up a

level

you know because he we now had

an active-duty marine officer colonel

inside the inside the church inside the

system and he knew how the Marine

Corps worked he knew how to get things

done and it was miraculous he actually

took this young man and changed his or

got his grandmother classified as a

dependent which she was I mean he was

looking after her as independent and the

manage to have the Marine Corps start to

look after that mm-hm do that but it was

just it was it was amazing this young

man was not a member of the church just

happened to show up one day it was

interesting who we attracted to the

services because there were a lot of

different faith groups that would that

would come and go down there the Marine

Corps actually paid the faith services

faith providers to do that we didn't we

obviously didn't get pay the church

didn't accept funds to do that mm-hmm

but the meetings were varied as you can

imagine and to some there was a very

there was a marked kind of a rock band

you know evangelical maybe that's not

the right word but it was just a very

different faith group a very different

way of worship yes and what we have seen

that I've been to that and so what

happens is or what happened is that

they would they would go to this thing

looking for this reinforcement BISM

peace and calm and be just because of

the noise a lot of times that we're

existing in these meetings they'd start

to leave those things and come out of

them and so we we'd grow and we'd swell

as these things happened one of the one

of the funniest stories we had is that

drill instructors love Sundays because

they get you know three or four hours of

peace okay all Marines go to church

there are no atheists very core and at

boot camp the primary reason for that is

is if you don't go to church you get to

spend it within the house with your di

and you know that's yeah

you believe in God real quick exactly

there's just no question there is a God

in heaven yes this outside of this house

where you go we were down there one week

and the faith-based leader for the

Buddhist

did not show up and miss di

well-intentioned you know came in with

all those this pleading look on his face

to tempt me says I haven't seen the

faith-based leader for the for the

Buddhists have you seen him do you know

you know if she's it was a sister he

said you know if he's coming I said you

know I really don't know I haven't seen

her he says oh cause well I've got these

guys that want a ten Church and I don't

know what to do with him and he says I

guess I'll just take him back to the

house and you could tell it this was not

on the top of yeah yeah and so he sits

there so I said to my says we know

they're welcome attend church with us

and he didn't even answer me he just

turned around walked outside barked at

them all to walk into the meeting and

sit down well we have gotten about

twenty probably 20 guys that week uh-huh

you know from it in the new company I

was thinking okay they'll be you know

it's the group that's led and brought

there so it would be a smaller group I'm

thinking it'll be you know maybe ten

fifteen guys well I start to file in and

they fill up the back role and then the

next row and the next row and then next

one I'm thinking what

how many guys is there anyway fifty two

guys later long we've got all these

people that are Buddhists then and our

sacrament meeting has now begun mm-hmm

and so we're I'm in the back of the room

with these guys and I'm standing there

and I'm thinking you know I can't just I

just didn't feel right about just

turning them loose

and just let him sit there so I started

to talk to him and I essentially gave

them what we term is our welcome speech

you know I said welcome to the church

you know this is what it is it's a great

time in your life you'll have an

opportunity to do that and the spirit

was really quite strong so I got

finished with the whole the whole talk

and this I could still see him and

this handsome good-looking strong black

recruit that was in the back raised his

hand he said what church is this I

said it's the Church of Jesus Christ of

latter-day saints and he kind of nodded

a little bit he said sir

can I come back next week sir absolutely

we would love it if you'd come back next

week that fifty Buddhists swelled to

about seventy Buddhists and they came

back every week after

that point because there was a piece

there was a consult

so they didn't need the Buddhist leader

[Laughter]

but it yeah we you know I think they

call that sheep stealing yes yeah yeah

but it was just such an interesting

experience interesting thing to see you

know that happened the funny thing that

one of the outcome out pieces of that

was they had a prayer leader just like

everybody is sure hello face did that a

prayer leader there and a prayer leader

came up to me and said you know I'd like

to come here I'm a prayer leader for

that faith but I'd like to come here to

church I said you know I said that's

great I said you know if you want to

come here to church you can probably do

that but you have to fulfill a

responsibility that you said that you

would do to this other to the Buddhist

and I said you can't just you can't just

show up here you know and the guys used

to go to the Buddhist because there were

meditation time and so they could sit

down on a mat they could close their

eyes and they could meditate for 15 to

20 minutes right right that was a big

deal sure because they were not allowed

to sleep we could not allow them to

sleep in our meetings we had to and they

they only that and they wouldn't nudge

and poke each other you'd see guys

standing up at our meetings all the time

trying to stay awake and so that was a

big attraction to becoming Buddhist

history hump and leads forward to me he

says he says you know I'm not really a

Buddhist no my family's Catholic but I'd

like to be Mormon so we just laughed

about it but that peace and that comfort

of the gospel and what was in that room

was amazing because I think the spirit

world's gonna be like that if I could

you know like how go off track yeah

for just a minute I think it's going to

be a lot of stuff going on in a central

place that's going on constantly it was

miraculous to stand at the back of that

meeting hall and see missionaries

teaching the gospel see classes going on

that were teaching specific pieces and

parts of it

see blessings being given to young men

seeing ordinations happening at the same

it was all going on at the same time in

addition to all the interviews that we

were trying to get through with all

these young men it was all going on at

the same time

same place as incredible and it was just

a it was just a miraculous thing to see

into my experience there there's a

culture in the Marine Corps that that

you get through whatever you need to get

through with the resources that you've

got and unfortunately that translates a

lot of time to continue boot camp and

continue the mission when they're hurt

mm-hmm MRP is the medical rehabilitation

platoon and death to a marine recruit is

to get put in MRP because when they get

put in MRP they get dropped and when

they get dropped it's up to their drill

instructor whether or not they come back

and join the company which they almost

always will not so all the bonds the

friendships and everything that's been

formed a broken mm-hmm and I got to join

a later group or they get recycled to

start all over again which I mean they

they would rather saw the leg off than

sure it started you sure but a lot of

them did so MRP was a really tough thing

for them to deal with so they'd get hurt

a lot because of what they were doing

they were running they were jumping they

had this that this ladder they used to

call it the stairway to heaven and this

ladder went up with successive rungs to

probably 20 30 maybe even 40 feet above

the ground but the perverse thing about

the ladder is the higher you got the

further apart the rungs got so you'd

start the ladder it would be kind of a

normal ladder and as you climb these

things we'd get further and further up

and you had to actually get to the top

of the ladder go over the ladder and

then climb back down the other side you

know and so the very top of the rung two

guys that you know we're not six feet or

above they couldn't even reach the top

rung so they'd be kind of hanging onto

the pole and jumping up trying to grab

this thing way up above the ground and a

lot of them got hurt on that and moving

it's kind of like a metaphor for life I

think so this stairway to suffer yeah

but they'd get hurt all the time and

they'd come to church and what they

what they wanted was not to be

considered for MRP and they wouldn't

tell their drill instructors they'd just

try and do it although the drill

instructors kind of saw it I think I

know you're going on this and they

they kind of look at it may think okay

this is just part of a whole process of

learning here and sacrifice in other

words conditions aren't always going to

be ideal for you to get things done you

need to realize that and understand it

so they'd come in and they'd sit down

and they'd say and it was so fun too

because a lot of times the language was

not standard church fare mm-hmm sure not

anyway sure in fact if we could talk

about a lot of that there's some funny

stories that that happened there but so

they come in and they say you know will

you pray over me in other words that was

there you know a priesthood blessing to

do that and then we'd come in with

crutches they'd come in with their hands

bandaged not being able to walk and it

was just it was just the MAME and

the you know the tired and the poor you

know and so they come in and they'd

ask for these priesthood blessings and a

lot of them were not members of the

church and so I you know we'd sit down

with them and we'd say okay well we need

to understand a couple things here

before we do this you know first of all

you need to understand that that you are

a son of God and independent of what

your past has been you have a right to

pray you know you may be restricted in

your use of the priesthood or something

else I mean but the right to

fundamentally talk to your father in

heaven is there and will always be there

so you need to know that and understand

that the second thing is Jesus is who

he said he was he is the Christ he is

the Savior he has the capability to do

this and because he loves you and I we

have the opportunity to use that

priesthood to do the same things that he

did when he was on the earth and so we

need to understand that and so that's

what the priesthood is called and so I'm

going to give you a blessing by that

priesthood with this information you

have any questions about that do you do

you believe and understand what I've

just told you and of course the answer

was always yes sir you know I mean it

was it was so touching to watch that and

so you'd give him a blessing and

it was like you were reading the Gospels

they'd stand up and literally and

figuratively walk it was you know we

learned we learned to give up all the

filters that we gave blessings with what

do you mean by filters well we gave up

the idea that you know the medical staff

will do what they can do and you'll be

ok all the qualifiers mm-hmm

we learned that we just needed to bless

these kids just give them a blessing

just say to them you know you're gonna

be you're gonna be fine you're gonna be

healed mm-hmm and it would happen and it

was astounding hmm was that a was that a

and evolution yes very definitely but it

was fascinated everybody buy into that

oh yeah all the counselors most of them

so they so they I mean obviously you

guys talked we did we a lot I mean all

these experiences and this activity

that's going on there's an energy there

there is definitely so you've got a

network here this small little network

of 12 to 15 people here that are leading

this brigade you're all evolving

together know what imagine I mean

eventually I mean you started off just

was it just you by the way that started

with just the two of you or no okay no

there were several people that were

involved with this yeah so yeah I would

imagine that as you spoke about these

things and talked about them to each

other this thing bounce things off the

wall of each other and now there would

be an evolution as a group yeah as to

how you were gonna push forward it

really did and what was fascinating

about it too was is we began to just

give up all of the reticence that ever

occurred during a priesthood blessing

mm-hmm you know it became pretty obvious

to us that what the Lord wanted the

priesthood to be used for it was to

bless the lives of the people that were

with us you know and I don't I don't

want to say that that there's not other

components to that not everybody that

gets a blessing is going to be healed

although quite frankly

I'm not sure we saw too many at the MCRD

that had that mm-hmm I mean if you read

the scriptures you read that read the

Gospels specifically and you read about

these masses of people that came

to the Savior for blessings and for

healings and the scriptures don't ever

qualify who he gave it to that's very

interesting he said they just he just

did it knowing that he gave it to or

that he put the qualifiers in he didn't

write you know you go back and you know

bless you that your physician will you

know what to do exactly no yeah and so

so all of that all of that language is

dropped away and it became such a

pure elemental experience mm-hmm to see

that pre to see the priesthood operate

that's really interesting room I mean do

you think that do you think that that

then I mean having that experience there

where were those filters kind of fell

away maybe kind of like Paul's scales

falling away right what is the is

that a cultural thing then that we do in

the church is just kind of this is what

I saw everybody else do growing up and

this is I think I'm gonna fall through

on doing the same thing and I think is

there really we have you know we have a

handbook yes right in priesthood that

tells us how to give a blessing yeah but

it certainly doesn't give the filters in

there no those aren't listed in it so

that's got to be a cultural thing that

we kind of regurgitate yeah and I think

a lot of times too it's just our human

nature to have a little bit of reticence

about what we're doing you know I call

fire on fish I hate to say it yeah we

qualify faith we say you know yeah I

know I get it your this is a Supreme

Being whose name is I am he's here now

it's a very present statement in that

name who possibly could defeat Laban and

he's 50 man you know how could that

happen but it was just so interesting to

watch that happen you know and I say

this in an amazement of their faith but

how their faith just came crashing back

to us and built us it was it was

which real quick by the way would also I

mean I think about the relationship in a

blessing between the person giving the

blessing and the person receiving it

right and if you're not qualifying it

how much more does that open up the

faith of the person receiving the

blessing that's a good point

you know yeah I just I don't know a

point no that's a great point yeah it is

what happened from that of course is

that it would multiply mm-hmm you know

they'd walk back into their house their

barracks and guys would see him and

they'd say well what happened to you

know you could barely get out of here

when you went to church what's going on

and they would bear testimony and

those are the stories that they would

tell him those were the experiences in

the very beginning we wanted them to

have that was gonna provide the

foundation for them to get through this

five years they were gonna have and

frankly through the rest of their life

you know that was the foundation we

wanted them to have when they saw it and

they say well I went and I got a

priesthood blessing or I got prayed over

and so next week they'd come to church

and they'd have a troop behind them and

so they come up to you and they'd say

you know last week you gave me a

blessing my knee is better I'm doing

fine you know he's got a bad shoulder

he's got a bad ankle he's got he's got

this and we had those experiences over

and over and over again

and so we'd start we'd give them that

piece of knowledge we'd asked them to

exercise faith in that with that as a

foundation to be able to build that

faith as they went forward and had those

changes one of the most astounding

experiences I had with that was a group

came back he brought three of his

buddies in and it was almost exactly

like they say and he got all that all

the way down this and he pointed to the

last young man and he said he's gotten I

don't remember specifically what his

physical injury was but he's got a

problem with his shoulder whatever it

was and his father is in hospice dying

of cancer

and he got a letter this week that said

that he wouldn't be alive when he

graduates I need you to bless him heal

him and then bless that his father will

be alive when he gets done because he

needs to see him before

and that stuff just it just stops

you in your tracks mhm

you know I mean you just you finally

come face to face with this idea of you

know where's your faith what do you

believe you know what who do you trust

do you trust that the Lord can will do

this will he pull this off and you

know we gave him a blessing and I got a

letter from him his dad was alive and so

it just we just saw these kinds of

things just over and over and over again

as we watch this

you know dovetail well it sounds like a

lot of these young men get a little bit

of a missionary experience anyway I mean

they're talking to others yeah they are

you're putting them in positions where

they're performing the ordinances

they're learning the gospel they're

learning the procedures of the church

and how to use the priesthood and so

they may not have gone on a mission but

they've got a mini mission here they

kind of have for a hopefully a

foundation you know for not just their

time in the military but for their life

and we would hear that even from

returned missionaries mhm they'd say you

know my mission was a great experience I

loved that I enjoyed it I had spiritual

experiences there but nothing like

I've had interesting you know just a

very well it's just again it's a micro

case it's a it's a laser focus a

pressure it's a pressure cooker there

you go

that's the analogy I was looking for

yeah it's a pressure cooker of life I

mean all the pressure that is put on

them which is going to be greater than a

mission even in such a short period of

time you know you think about what that

squeezes out of you that's what it what

is it you know everything from

confronting who you are what your

weaknesses are yeah what you're in for

and what you're gonna have to rely on

yeah I mean it really was it was and

we just saw that just so frequently

with who they were and where they'd

go and what

now you had probably a couple of

conversions with this so you had see

people that had these experiences

whether it was from the healing and the

blessings or from others that have

talked to him and decided hey I'm gonna

come to church and they ended up staying

yeah I'm coming to church it was it

was every missionaries dream but it was

also a little bit of their nightmare

they couldn't knows that our position

that Center that area yes the

missionaries themselves they could not

go in and for lack of a better word use

the typical commitment patterns of

missionary work they'd commit people to

pray they'd commit people to listen

they'd commit people to read but they

couldn't come in and say we're gonna

baptize you on this day that's because

it's a military it's a military it's a

military base and we respected that and

we and we did that

so the typical individual that got

baptized which will shock most

missionaries most of us we're baptized

because they said I want to join the

church how do I join do you do baptisms

here how do I join the church and that

was a unique neat experience we had no

baptismal font

what we had was literally a I think

about four foot maybe three and a half

foot kiddie pool that we would have

baffled baptisms in okay and we would

fill it up with a hose and they would

get in it they would kneel to do the

baptism and they'd be you know a dress

in white and they wouldn't be baptized

and in a way they'd go many difficulties

with that I get any bigger guys yeah the

room was very frequently flooded

SOVA Baptist you did this with a kiddie

pool in that room actually that was a

difficult case the only time we believe

that yeah it was a different room but

that room was it constantly flooded all

over it was interesting too which was

kind of fun because you had to fill it

up as much as you could I mean we had to

get these vigilant some depth yeah

you just didn't know the physical space

and pool to do what we were doing there

was a there was another religion there I

don't remember what they were but they

had a baptismal font on wheels but

wouldn't it looked like a coffin

actually

a long slender thing and every once in a

while we'd go talk him out of his

baptism we would use that but baptisms

were just were just wonderful wonderful

experiences and we had a lot just let me

say that and we really did it was it was

astounding how many young men would go

through that and say I this is I

understand this I need to be baptized I

I want to make that covenant I want to

do that which is amazing again in a

thirteen week period and what it will

how many of those young men going into

the military

oh we're thinking I'm gonna be Mormon by

the time I walked out of there yeah that

was that was probably the other

predominant thought that was often

expressed by the young man you know I

had no idea I would have the kind of

spiritual experiences in boot camp that

I don't have here and we worried about

them to be honest I mean we worried

about them coming through you know we

weren't worried about well we were

worried about that what their activity

would be absolutely not sure

because this was a pressure cooker yeah

once your let out yeah once you let out

what you know where do you go what

happened and what we saw right after

they would come to us for thirteen weeks

they had ten days of leave and that they

would go home and then they'd come back

again to that what was called the school

of infantry and I mentioned controlled

that also we were on there for a while

and they would go to that for whatever a

period of time depending on what their

MOS was sorry their military

occupational specialty everybody who

joined the Marine Corps wanted to be a

grunt which was infantry okay and they

would go to what's called ITB which is

the infantry training battalion the

balance would go to another group that

would do it

Marine Corps has no ancillary services

you know if you're if you need a medic

if you need a chaplain if you need a

lawyer if you need anything else you

went to the Navy for that no those guys

don't exist inside the Marine Corps

it's pretty slim from that

standpoint so they would go back and

they would come back and they go to SOI

and we'd look for the guys that were

baptized the guys that were ordained I

mean we would in a given year we'd

ordain somewhere between a hundred to

two hundred young men to the Melchizedek

Priesthood which was an astounding

number given what was going on sure and

it was it was discouraging to us on one

level that so many of the

young men who were worthy capable clean

good young men could slip through that

process and not be ordained before they

came into the military and this is all

happening underneath your stake yes

all happening underneath the stake right

this is a stake so for these young men

who would be ordained of Melchizedek

Priesthood I remember the stake

presidency would come - sure after we'd

interviewed them we get all paperwork

straightened out we'd always call her

prior bishop you know sure and tough you

know tell him that you know a it really

was the guy we were talking yeah search

was still true deal with this and then

the stake presidency would come in and

they'd do an interview and then in their

state priesthood meeting they'd read off

these hundred names that the members

used to complain about yeah but it was

fascinating because there was always the

question about well you getting this

done but you know what will the

recruiter do anything to get out of the

Sun sure I'm sure you know so how does

that fit into this whole home the whole

mechanism and how does that work and you

know it caused us a lot of consternation

we thought about it a lot we met we

wanted to make sure that who we were or

deigning and who we were baptizing

understood what they were getting into

and to do that so we were probably

more conscious of that than your typical

convert is and your typical individual

who's ordained we'd always you know I

can remember telling them you know if

you're gonna be if you're gonna receive

the Melchizedek Priesthood you're making

a fairly solemn promise to your Father

in Heaven that you're gonna go to the

temple and none of it you're gonna go to

the temple but you'll be sealed there

that you'll receive the ordinances there

that's why the Melchizedek priesthoods

on the earth is to give you those

ordinances and have you participate in

that so if you have any hesitancy about

this at all or you don't think this is

quite right or this is not the time then

we don't want to do this right now we

got it we got to be careful but it was a

two-edged sword because what we also

needed were these young men to be able

to go into a battlefield and keep people

alive we wanted them to be able to

enable their buddies and their friends

and others who got into trouble there to

be supported and sustained

mm-hmm and that priesthood was really I

mean they were there's a lot of people

on that battlefield that can take life

but there's almost nobody that can

preserve it

mm-hmm and they were they found

themselves in that unique position so it

was important to us to give them that

opportunity and to do that so it was it

was a tough it was not an easy decision

to always make but we go to SOI and that

was that was evening that was a Sunday

evening course because they were out in

the field we conduct services in the

field we'd go find their platoons and

then their groups and we'd give them the

sacrament and then we conduct an evening

meeting at the Camp Pendleton is where

this occurred we'd see the kids that

came through and our numbers were good I

mean we'd see 90 80 to 90% of the guys

that we'd worked with down at the MC

still there you know and it was just so

important that they have these stories

to tell I can't emphasize that enough

those spiritual experiences were

critical to these young men you know it

just really mattered that that they had

an experience where they felt their pack

lifted that they watched people walking

that were injured me and it had troubles

those were the thing they participated

in the ordinances and things I had a I

had a unique experience I was I my sweet

wife and I were in a fast food

restaurant running into a friend of ours

that was a member of the church and this

this man had kind of come in and out

we'd known him for 30 years he kind of

come in and out of his activity he'd be

there for a while he'd go back but he'd

always kind of come back and I was

talking to him and his conversations

often turned he asked us what we were

doing and I said well you know we're

actually still down at the Marine Corps

we're down there conducting services

down there we've been embedded with the

Marines for quite a while and he said

well and then I you know as it's kind of

spontaneous you tell marine stories

because it touches us so much sure and

so I told him a quick story and I looked

up at him and noticed that he had tears

coming down both cheeks and then he

literally started to sob and his

shoulders now this is a gentleman my age

okay and so I kind of put my arm around

him and I said you know it's a great

it's a miracle thing yeah because I know

because I was a Marine

mm I had that experience I know what

you're talking about and I felt like in

a lot of ways that was kind of the Lord

telling me that it was okay you know you

I needed to look after them while I had

him and he would look after them after

that mm-hmm

so just continue to do what you do and

the other thought too was is that and I

don't say this flippantly but you know

the Lord thinks that the baptismal

covenant is capable being made by an

eight year old child and if an eight

year old child can make that then

certainly these young men who have that

experience and others older can do the

same thing

sure so it was just important that we

kind of gain that perspective there but

but Gregg it stripped you know like

you I've been an active member to church

my whole life but it stripped a lot of

what I thought I knew away and just

rebuilt a lot of that why do you think

that is I mean let's say you know just I

mean obviously to have the experience

that you had going there and but yet

saying that it stripped a lot away when

this is what you would want and what you

would what you would think the church

would be for you regularly it's what is

it just because of the environment is it

just because of the pressure cooker

that's there I think there's no question

but you change part of it but that's I

was just gonna say and that was the

condition that was certainly this bills

were certainly the circumstances for the

individuals we were dealing with but it

changed us mm-hmm

it started it just it was like a real

clear vision of what the prophets are

saying when they say preach repentance

which faith and repentance to these

people have them understand it you know

and it's so so interesting to see that

because when that foundation is laid the

Melchizedek Priesthood just almost

automatically comes in on top of that

you know they get that

understanding they build that faith in

that trust

they began to trust the Lord of who he

is what he can do and where he is they

they begin to understand the lies that

they've been told by the adversary of

who they are and what they've done and

what it means there are two bay I think

there are two basic lies the

most of these kids accepted in their

life as they as they went through this

process one was I don't need the Savior

you know what I've done I just I've done

I don't I don't need him

I can I can deal with this the second

lie that we're told is actually the same

life it's just a little bit different it

says it says what I've done

he can't redeem me from and those are

the two lies that most of the challenges

that these young men came in with bought

into and because they buy into that they

buy into the other lie that says they

don't they can't approach their father

in heaven they can't talk to him he

would never talk to me he would never he

would never listen to me knowing what

I've done and where I am and I can't

tell you how fallacious how just totally

wrong that is mm-hmm

you know it's an it's an infinite

atonement and it started with prayer yes

always

it's an infinite atonement I

fundamentally believe to the core now

the Lord really doesn't care where we've

been he cares where we're going

he cares what's going on where we are

and what happens is that that faith

and repentance that piece of knowledge

about who they are that that prayer it

starts to dancer they see and feel you

know they're running with a full pack on

their lungs are exploding they're

absolutely certain they cannot take

another step and they pray and all of a

sudden their packets light they feel

things around them they experience a

renewed energy it's it happened over and

over and over again and that's what

starts that and they go from there

humility obedience sacrifice I've got a

seat people how I've got to see people

how the Lord sees them well it's kind of

like I mean you talk about their packs

giving light I think about the Book of

Mormon story about the people of Alma

yeah right where they maybe we're

not best position they felt they had to

repent and it took a little bit of time

yeah but as they exerted their faith

right there their burdens were

lightened first they weren't relieved of

everything at first but their

burdens were lightened - now it's uh it

was we just saw miracles we used to joke

somewhat tongue-in-cheek but I don't

know that it wasn't true we used to say

to them you know the Lord's spirit is in

the church everywhere on Sunday his you

can feel his spirit in the meetings and

you'll feel that where you go but at the

MCRD we actually know where he attends

church

 

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