Come Follow Me LDS- Romans 7-16, Part 2

'Weakness, Strength & Body'
- The body is the real temple
- The temple is veiled
- Weaknesses and strengths are what the Plan of Salvation are about
- Forced Equality removes the Spiritual Economy and creates a dystopia
- Paul's 'like-mindedness' to Moroni


Come Follow Me

LDS Mormon New Testament Romans Bible



in this episode we're going to talk

about weakness strength and body here we

go so in this episode we're going to

cover Romans chapters 12 through 16 now

there's not a lot in chapter 16 so it's

primarily for chapters that we're going

to be covering and they kind of break up

nicely into two separate parts 12 and 13

and 14 and 15 but starting off here in

chapter 12 Paul gives us an introduction

to some of the things that he's going to

be talking about here and then he kind

of brings it all back together it's very

interesting how he does this so right

here in verse 1 of chapter 12 it says I

beseech you therefore brethren by the

mercies of God that ye present your

bodies a living sacrifice holy

acceptable unto God which is your

reasonable service so as we've been

talking about things that are carnal in

the higher and lower laws the law of

Moses as the lower law or the ironic law

and then a higher law through the

Melchizedek Priesthood and Jesus Christ

and the atonement he's still talking in

that way he always talks through this

higher and lower law as he should and

brings back a lot of things about the

Garden of Eden as we've discussed and

about the creation story and in fact a

lot of the scriptures go back to the

creation story in the guard of Eden

story you should look for that but here

he talks about a few interesting things

some things still back to the Garden of

Eden story with the sacrifice of our

bodies what he's basically saying is is

look we are spirit and body there are

two parts to us a higher part and a

lower part

our job in mortality is to take on this

body and master it so we're taking on

the lower law right we're taking on

something lower something earthly and

not heavenly and so the key is to say

okay the body is not going to control

the mind the heart the spirit but it's

going to be the other way around and if

we can do that or to the degree that

we're able to master our desires our

passions our weaknesses our carnal

weaknesses and that includes a lot of

different things from laziness to

consumption to vices to a lot of things

that the body would bring us down and

hold us back on laziness whatever that

might be he's saying offer up the body

make the spirit supreme over the body

and if you can offer up your sacrifice

here if holy of all things that are

carnal of all things that are temporal

of all things that are of the lower law

then you've mastered it and the higher

law wins out you still need both right

we're going to resurrect with a body you

need both but you need to resurrect

hopefully with a celestial body and in

verse 2 he says and be not conformed to

this world but be transformed by the

renewing of your mind that's a difficult

thing to do

renewing your mind with spiritual

things with growth spiritually with

progression going toward a goal of

becoming more like the Savior and not

conforming to our bodies not conforming

to the physical world that we live in

there's somebody else who's in charge of

this world so to speak so he's

introduced the idea of our bodies we're

gonna follow through on that a lot more

here but then he comes down here in

verse 3 and he says something

interesting he says think soberly

according as God hath dealt to every man

the measure of faith I like that word a

lot you see it a lot in the scriptures


to be sober no that's not a word of

wisdom suggestion or recommendation or

commandment right sober means to be

sincere it means not to it does mean to

not be drunk that is the primary

definition of the word but what it means

overall is to not be drunk with anything

so do not be drunk with vices do not be

drunk with sin do not be drunk with

ideology do not be drunk with your

passions but be sober understanding the

solemnity the gravity the importance of

who we are and our time here in this

probationary state so sober that's a

good suggestion a good word and then he

continues with the theme of the body and

he says down in verse 5 so we being many

are one body in Christ and everyone

members one of another having then gifts

differing according to the grace that is

given to us whether prophecy ministry

teaching exhortation cheerfulness this

is what we've talked about many times

before in this series and that is that

everybody is different there was a

discussion on Facebook the other day

about everybody needing to be the same

in a sense so that was the suggestion

but that's not true that is not what

what are that is not the plan of

salvation we are all moving toward

becoming a one heart in one mind of

people of Zion that doesn't mean we're

the same it means we have the same goals

right to have that I can have the same

heart as someone else in my sincerity

and being born again and having Christ

as my ideal but I could still have a

very different personality and I could

have a lot of weaknesses that somebody

else who has those same goals and the

same heart

may have his strengths and that's how we

work together that is covenant and

that's what he's going over here look we

all are different that's good

we don't need to be the same we see in

society today especially in the West now

this push toward sameness and yes I'll

use the word equality and it is

completely overdone but equality of

everybody in every way at least is not

the plan of salvation it doesn't work it

takes away the ability to help each

other out and to help each other through

their weaknesses and trials and

tribulations everybody has weaknesses

and everybody needs help and we are to

serve as we all connect through these

different weaknesses matching with

strengths with someone else so it is

equality of opportunity is Dallin H

Oaks sets that is part of the plan of

salvation that as what we strive for but

not equality of result and not equality

of sameness being the same whether we're

talking about genders whether we're

talking about even race or whether we're

talking about different groups this is

not the plan of salvation the great joy

about marriage about family is that you

have all of these different types of

people and it's fun and it can be

difficult and it can be full of strife

sometimes and obstacles are set before

you because you have to get along but

overall that's where joy comes from is

having those differences and loving each

other in those differences and that's

what we're to learn to do that I believe

is what Paul is going to be going over

here with us use your strengths to help

others that have weaknesses in those

same areas and in places that you have

weaknesses search for those

that have strengths and then we put

ourselves in Paul's shoes here and

remember that he is starting in a sense

at least among the Gentiles and some of

the Jews a movement right that that he's

in charge of he'll say here that he is

the minister called to serve the

Gentiles and so he's starting something

brand new well how is everybody supposed

to act and behave what are what is the

culture going to be what is the way we

work with each other that's what he

needs to cover that's what he's talking

about with all these gifts that

everybody has use them and help each

other out but he says here down in verse

19 dearly beloved avenge not yourselves

but rather give place unto wrath for it

is written vengeance is mine I will

repay saith the Lord so that's not to us

therefore if thine enemy hunger feed him

if he thirst give him drink

for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of

fire on his head so that might sound

like oh why would I do that if I'm going

to be in a sense metaphorically going to

be burning somebody it sounds very

negative but that's not what that means

coals in ancient times and in ancient

civilizations were a representation of

repentance and so we see in the story of

Isaiah where he is not happy with a lot

of the things that he's been saying in

other words probably doctrines that are

wrong my guess on that by the way

is that he was teaching things that were

not Christian enough not enough

focus on the doctrine of Christ which he

ends up doing throughout Isaiah later on

but he takes a coal metaphorically and

he needs to put it to his lips because

he needs to change his speech he needs

to repent on his speech which very

possibly then would be from a coal from

the altar of

in cents which would represent speech

it's part of that four phases of the


Ezekiel does the same thing this was

something that was done in Egypt it was

a ritual that was actually performed to

show repentance whether it was real or

metaphorical I don't know but this was

something that was common in the Middle


so it means repentance so if I'm going

to be nice to my neighbor what it's

saying is he's going to feel the

burning and the need hopefully to repent

he's going to feel in debt and he's

hopefully going to feel like he needs to

repent and perhaps he won't end up being

your enemy any longer then the last

verse which is great be not overcome of

evil but overcome evil with good I think

there's two different ways to look at

this first of all be not overcome of

evil in other words don't let evil take

charge of you right we don't want evil

to take charge of us if we let our guard

down that's what can happen but the

other way to look at it is from a little

bit more of a passive way is don't let

it overcome us right don't let it get to

us in the sense of bringing this down of

wearing us down evil in this sense can

mean everything that is an opposition to

goodness everything that holds you back

all the obstacles are placed before you

mental physical emotional all of those

things are evil right they all hold you

back and so I think what Paul is saying

here don't let it get you down

don't let it get to you but overcome it

with good so if you can build enough

faith and enough goodness and

righteousness inside yourself you can

combat not only the fiery darts of Satan

but the Opposition in all things that's

in your life you can at least master it

you may not be able to take care of

everything but with enough goodness you

can hopefully master that

position that you deal with and then as

he's talked about each of the parts of

his body of Christ being working with

each other teaching exhorting

ministering prophesying he then

naturally brings up Authority and this

is something we see sometimes in the

church just sod the other day in a

newspaper but it's here's what he says

in verse one and this is all about

authority in the church he says let

every soul be subject unto the higher

powers for there is no power but God the

powers that be are ordained of God so we

live in a time where right now there's I

think there's two different ways this

happens in cycles of civilizations we

live in a time right now where it is

very easy to harp against authority that

can be everything from the government to

militarism to the patriarchy to whatever

it is right authority policeman I just

had an interview with a cop last

week and it's amazing the opposition

that these guys are seeing right now

that's not to say that there aren't

problems in each one of these areas

there are but the better off we are as a

society the easier it is to throw stones

at Authority the other way it happens is

the exact opposite things are so bad

right that a revolution is coming that

word or something in a specific

institution has become corrupt to

corrupt and it needs to be changed so

the two extremes seem to provide the

same thing it seems to me in many ways

we are living in the last days of Rome

where war was put to the outskirts the

people in Rome didn't need to worry

about it

they had wealth they had whatever they

wanted and we have a lot more abundance

than they did and so it's easy to go

after Authority and we see it in the

church so what does it mean

to sustain church leaders because that's

what we're asked to do what if we

disagree with someone what if we

disagree with say one of the brethren to

me this is again just my opinion there's

a big difference between agreeing and

supporting a big difference and I think

we get caught up in this idea that we

are to not think about things and just

accept everything I don't believe in

that I think we need to own things so

when I listen to the Brethren speak and

I love listening to them I want to know

for myself that the things that they're

saying are true and I might not always

agree that doesn't mean that I don't

sustain them that is separate it's a

separate issue I think that is really

important to understand it means that

okay they've made this decision or

they've said something or put a policy

into place I'm going to sustain them in

it that doesn't mean I have to agree

maybe I'll change my mind later on as I

see things that are unveiled in the

future that's okay I think the problem

comes when we not only disagree with

someone or we are angry with someone but

we move beyond that to not sustaining

them and just start criticizing them and

just try and tear them down that's the

problem I see several pundits out there

in the church that that's all they do

every time you read from them or hear

from them there is just stones being

hurled so I think that what we learn

from Paul here is look these are

ordained ministers your local bishop he

might not even be a very good Bishop he

might not give you the right advice he

may not know what he's doing

that doesn't mean you don't sustain

support the system the church and even

the office that they're in that doesn't

mean you have to agree those are

separate issues

and then down in verse nine he goes over

some of the Ten Commandments this is

just like a bin and I did a bin and I

starts with the priests of Noah and or

the priests of Noah and King Noah and

starts going through all of the

commandments the Ten Commandments and

talks about the lower law the law of

Moses and how they're not following it

he kind of lays this out and then on top

of that he puts in if there be any other

commandment it is briefly comprehended

in this saying so this is any other

commandment above and beyond the Ten

Commandments thou shalt love thy

neighbor as thyself

so he brings in love and charity and of

course this is a major theme for him

throughout all of the epistles but keep

in mind that he's bringing up charity

here or love because he's gonna go over

a couple of his other attributes here in

a minute in verse 10 love worketh no ill

to his neighbor therefore love is the

fulfilling of the law well that's what

Christ did Christ fulfilled the law how

did he do it

he did it through charity he did it

through the pure love of Christ

literally and that's something we would

look at more as the spirit of the law

the higher law and then he comes down

here and he weaves back in the theme of

the body and he says in verse 12 the

night is far spent the day is at hand

let us therefore cast off the works of

darkness and let us put on the armor of

light what is he talking about let us

walk honestly in thirteen as in the day

not in rioting and drunkenness not in

chambering and wantonness that would be

promiscuity not in strife and envying

but put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and

make not provision for the flesh to

fulfill the lusts thereof so put ye on

the Lord Jesus Christ what does that

mean he just talked about the armor of

light this is a direct reference I

believe a metaphor for the garment

as he's talked about the body and what

how we want to overcome it he'll later

on focus on the body as a temple in

another epistle and I think this is

something that I have brought this up I

think before but I think this is

something where we miss the mark a

little bit and that is when we're

talking about our body as a temple I

don't think that the metaphor is our

body is like the temple that we go to

I think we're completely missing the

point I think it's the other way around

I think that the temple we go to and go

through the ordinances at and make our

covenants at is a metaphor for our

bodies our bodies are the temple our

bodies are the vessels for our spirits

just like the temple is the vessel or

the house of the Lord or the Spirit of

the Lord but those buildings are not

eternal they won't be around forever but

our bodies will so our bodies are the

temple and using temple imagery we can

look at the garment that is received

after an endowment of course it's the

veil so our bodies are veiled our bodies

are supposed to be the Holy of Holies

the celestial room veiled from

everything that's outside of it well

it's very interesting to me for those

that are very look at look at the veils

with women is something that's very

controversial it's like wait a minute I

don't think people understand what the

veil means veil is a very noble and

righteous thing and both men and women

who go through the endowment are veiled

on their most of their body but a little

temple imagery for you there all right

then here in chapter 14 he starts us up

and he's gonna start it off the exact

same way in the next chapter chapter 15

where he's starting to bring all this

together you know I've gone through the

idea of Paul orchestrating things here

in Romans he really does

it's brilliant the way he does it it's

very difficult to read but if you follow

the threads

of what he's doing here he weaves all

these points together and we're gonna go

even further in weaving those points

together here in a minute he says in

verse one him that is weak in the faith

receive ye but not to doubtful

disputations so he starts off with

weakness and in this case it's about

someone who has maybe who is not very

faithful or who does not have a lot of

faith a weakness in faith and he's

saying look receive those people in of

course but not with disputations so

there's a difference

we might sometimes fall short as

individuals as families as congregations

in supporting some members that are

going through a faith crisis who are

having doubts that's a normal thing and

in fact I don't think that any of us

would actually end up being tested like

Abraham and Sarah as we're supposed to

do or supposed to be if we don't at some

point in our lives experience some doubt

that's okay Paul is saying accept people

in unless there is doubtful disputations

so it's a different scenario again he's

trying to help people understand how

they should behave together in his

congregations it's a different scenario

all together if someone is doubtful and

now they're starting to argue with you

and trying to attack your faith that's a

different scenario but plenty of people

have doubts and so of course we want to

make sure that we're putting our arms

around them and talking to them and

hopefully we are learning and educating

ourselves with things like come follow

me and studying the scriptures so that

we can help people if possible with the

doubts that they might be having it

would be nice if there was an

environment in each congregation and

each ward or people that were starting

to go through a doubt crisis weren't

afraid to talk to someone again

different from disputations

but we want to make sure we're helping

those that go through these doubts it's

very easy these days to find things that

end up hurting your faith those little

seeds of doubt it's all it takes

sometimes just a little bit of darkness

in that light can grow pretty quickly

then we go all the way over to chapter

15 here and again we go to verse 1 and

what does he say what does Paul say he

says we then that are strong ought to

bear the infirmities of the weak and not

to please ourselves that's the exact

point I was just making with a specific

scenario of a faith crisis

everybody has given weaknesses we know

that we repeat that scripture all the

time I'm going to go to it in a minute

all of us have weaknesses he just went

over in the previous chapter didn't

really cover it but he just went over

how we don't want to judge other people

and here he's saying bear the

infirmities of the weak and not to

please ourselves we are the weak every

one of you listening to this are the

weak in one way or another and so we

need help in something and so what we

don't want to do is please ourselves in

something we're strong in and not help

those that are weak in that specific

thing again that is covenant that is

what it's all about

everybody is at different levels in

different things could be financial it

could be emotional

it could be confidence it could be

knowledge that could be skills

it could be attitude and mental health

it could be physical health it could be

energy they could be faith and

encouragement but we're all given these

different strengths we call them the

gifts of the Spirit specifically along

with these weaknesses that were given so

that we can help each other out now I

want to jump down here to verse 4 it

says for whatsoever things were written


were written for our learning that we

through patience and comfort of the

Scriptures might have hope so he's been

talking about love and charity now he's

talking about hope now he doesn't go a

lot into faith here but he's talking a

lot about hope and charity or love those

are the same thing I know they use

different words in Greek but it's the

same idea and then he talks about having

the like-mindedness not being the same

because some are given that strength

someone given the weaknesses were all

given both he says in 5 now the god of

patience and consolation grant you to be

like-minded one toward another according

to Christ Jesus again be one heart and

one mind that Zion with all of our

differences working on them together

that is not forced equality you push

for forced equality then you are trying

to get rid of covenant you get rid of

the entire purpose of spiritual gifts

and the entire purpose of weaknesses and

what someone does when they're thinking

about forcing equality is you end up

skipping the individual we've talked

about the four phases of the priesthood

and you go from individuality and agency

has phase one of the Aaronic priesthood

phase two then is speech and expression

that is also of the Irani priesthood

phase three would go to the Melchizedek

Priesthood and there it is about family

being married and having family kids and

then phase four is community like we're

talking about here you know you can do

all these things within the family as

well but Paul's talking about the

community that's phase four that's what

Zion ultimately is and people that want

a forced equality of results not just a

like mindedness and a light like hearts

but that wants to get rid of differences

and force and equality

they are moving from zero to four in

those phases which means you're

eliminating everything and think about

that and this by the way is Bo

from the left side of the political

spectrum and the right side of the

political spectrum so when you are

looking for forced equality or forced

sameness which can come from on the Left

Marxism communism and from the right

with say overzealous nationalism you're

creating a group and then we go out all

into what we're going through now with

group identity and group politics and

what that does is it creates a utopia

that's really a dystopia none of those

things will ever work because the plan

of salvation the plan of God is to start

with the individual allow agency to take

root and then expression and speech and

then family and if you notice in all the

scenarios all three of those things

individuality and speech and family all

start to get removed because ever they

want to push all the way up to number

four and you end up with dystopia can't

work this is about helping each other

this is about having differences this is

about everyone being weak in something

and everybody being strong in something

and it's interesting here that Paul goes

into basically he's going into faith

hope and charity here and tying that in

with this weakness and with spiritual

gifts who else does that Moroni does

that so if we go to II Thor real quickly

here and this is the scripture that were

used to quoting about weaknesses this is

by the way this is Moroni who interjects

his own words into his abridgement of

the book of ether so that's why this is

him speaking in the book of ether he

says in chapter 12 verse 27 and if men

come unto me I will show unto them their

weakness I give unto men weakness that

they may be humble and my grace is

sufficient for all men that humble

themselves grace another very big word

for Paul who humble themselves before me

for if they humble themselves before me

and have faith in me then will I make we

things become strong unto them and that

could very well be and likely will be

through other people but then we usually

don't read the next verse this is verse

28 behold I will show unto the Gentiles

so here Paul is talking specifically

about the Gentiles in chapter 15 he

really gets into it but here Moroni is

talking about the Gentiles also and

weaknesses and faith hope and charity he

says I will show unto the Gentiles their

weakness and I will show unto them that

faith hope and charity bringeth unto me

the fountain of all righteousness I've

said this before but I believe that

Mormon and Moroni Moroni is pulling from

Mormons words but Moroni and Mormon I

think had the same source that Paul did

in going through the idea of faith hope

and charity spiritual gifts and

weaknesses they kind of fit together and

he continues as well in Moroni 10 very


remember in Moroni 10 this is where

Moroni goes through all of the different

spiritual gifts that everybody has to

one has given the Spirit of God that he

might teach the word of wisdom to

another the word of knowledge to another

great faith another gifts of healing

again to another he may work mighty

miracles again to one another that he

may prophesy beholding angels all kinds

of tongues interpretation of languages

and these all come from the gifts of the

Holy Ghost so he's talking about the

same thing that Paul is faith hope and

charity the spiritual gifts and

weaknesses that are meant to come

together in a covenant relationship

amongst us and he follows us up in verse

20 here again this is more on i-10

wherefore there must be faith and if

there must be faith there must also be

hope and if there must be hope there

must also be charity we're going to go

over this a lot more here in other

epistles from Paul then falling down in

chapter 15 in in verse 12 he says and

again ISA is that's Isaiah the great

prophet the Masonic prophet

the prophet of the Gentiles there shall

be a root of Jesse who's Jesse Jesse is

David's father so this is a root of

Jesse we get this also in Isaiah root of

Jesse is a Davidic term it's a royal and

kingly term or title and he that shall

rise to reign over the Gentiles in him

shall the Gentiles trust that's Christ

right again going back to the temple

drama with Christ as the Davidic King

and then in 13 what is Paul bring up now

the god of Hope fill you with all joy

and peace and believing that ye may

abound in Hope through the power of the

Holy Ghost you can see the similarities

here between Mormon Moroni and Paul

they're striking remember that Moroni in

the Book of Mormon as he finishes off

the abridgement of ether what he thought

he was already going to be gone before

that he focuses in on this exact thing

that Paul is talking about and then when

he's still around and doesn't expect to

be around he goes back to it again

and gives us more on i-10 that's where

the promise is right of the Book of

Mormon Moroni 10-4 and in verse 14 he

talks further about this helping each

other out and I myself also am persuaded

of you my brethren that ye also are full

of goodness filled with all knowledge

able also to admonish one another and in

16 that I should be the minister of

Jesus Christ to the Gentiles that's his

calling that the offering of the

Gentiles might be acceptable being

sanctified by the Holy Ghost so going

back to his first verse in this episode

where he talked about we are offering

our bodies as an acceptable offering

that means we're making enough of a

sacrifice for it and here that the

Gentiles will be an acceptable offering

from what Paul is doing in his sacrifice

and also with what the Gentiles are

doing in converting

and taking on the name of Christ

remember it was Kane that did not offer

an acceptable sacrifice when Abel did

probably had nothing to do with the

sacrifice itself it probably had to do

more with Christ that's my guess

then Paul talks about eventually making

it to Spain we don't know if he actually

ever did most scholars will say he

didn't some new evidence shows that it's

possible that maybe he made it to Spain

but he follows up he finishes up here

looking at verse 27 he says for if the

Gentiles have been made partakers of

their spiritual things their duty is

also to minister unto them in carnal

things I was talking about the Gentiles

making a large financial donation to

some of these suffering Saints in

Jerusalem he's going to go to Jerusalem

and he's going to bring that that those

funds to the Saints in Jerusalem and he

talks about it as a carnal thing and we

see this sometimes we usually talk about

something that is carnal as bad it's

like cotton a Asada

in Spanish cotton a is meat flesh

mortality the lower law temporal law and

so a financial donation would be the

lower law a carnal wall in the D&C the

Lord actually calls the Aaronic

priesthood the carnal priesthood it's

not a bad priesthood but it's a temporal

priesthood it is the priesthood of the

earth of earthly things and then in

chapter 16 it's mostly just salutations

to many people that are in Rome where he

has a lot of connections though he

hasn't been there yet he's writing this

letter preemptively saying that I'm

going to get there and I'm going to be

with you

so Paul just like Moroni is a master

conductor like the conductor of an

orchestra where he brings these

principles in that he's obviously

learned somewhere about strengths and

spiritual gifts and weaknesses and

differences within people

how important that is and combining that

with faith hope and charity and working

together loving one another building

each other up and following the

authority of the structure over all of

that and then going back to the body

that Paul talks about often throughout

the epistles making an acceptable

sacrifice or we are able and willing to

conquer the lower law through a higher

law and have our spirits our minds our

hearts lift up our bodies I'll talk to

you next time


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