Come Follow Me LDS- Ether 6-11
'Compass, Square & Stones' - Ether and Moroni write with Temple Imagery - Are the stones in the barges compasses & stones?
- Palace intrigue - Cain and Abel is the story of the Doctrine of Christ and Secret Combinations - Secret Combinations work through the Carrot and the Stick - Heaps of bones is the result of the loss of the Doctrine of Christ and Secret Combinations
Book- The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing The Book of Mormon's Missing Stories, Don Bradley- https://amzn.to/3pUfCGx
VIDEO
Raw Transcript
all right welcome to the quick media
we are covering ether chapters 6 through
in this episode i want to go over this
is going to be by the way a lightning
round we're going to go through this
um because we're just about caught up
this is going to help us get to where we
need to be and and be caught up with
but i want to go over here what a theme
that we we need to be looking at
with chapters 6-11 and that is starting
off with temple imagery and drama
that is one of the four interpreters and
there's a reason for that and the reason
start looking at experiences especially
of their visions of their
theophanies right where they see god
like with the brother of jared and start
looking at these things and other
with a filter of temple imagery
the process of going through the temple
and arriving at a promised land right
the holy of holies the celestial room
then we start gaining a greater
understanding of how the author
using authorship here is trying to
and and i believe using the temple as a
background in telling the story about
their barges here so we just started off
with the brother of jared up in the
experience that he's having we've
that temple experience to me continues
here in chapter six and that temple
continue in how moroni is telling this
story and maybe ether is as well
right but moroni's the one abridging
this and let me tell you what i mean
here and they're having some trouble
here with the website so i'm going to
in in referencing the scriptures here
he starts off chapter six moroni does he
proceed to give the record of jared and
his brother again keep in mind
this is moroni it is his narrative and
uh eight i believe in in uh
the book of mormon his father going
the book of ether and continuing through
obviously the book of moroni
this is all moroni here and so where
what is he trying to fill in here
father's work is done he didn't know he
was going to be writing as he prays
and is given more life and and and
more time what does he feel he needs to
write about what is his message so keep
go through here in the book of ether but
then he gets down to verse two when he
for it came to pass after the lord had
prepared the stones this is important
why does he bring that up again right
again if you think about the authors
here especially those here in the book
that are taking the painstaking time
and effort to etch and engrave into
there is nothing here that is just by
right they are trying to be as efficient
in writing these things down so
the lord had prepared the stones right
that are put into the eight vessels or
barges which the brother of jared had
carried up into the mount
the brother of jared came down out of
the mount or out of the temple
and he did put forth the stones into the
which were prepared so the vessels are
and behold they did give light unto the
so this is important to understand now
from one of the better most revealing
scholars and books that i've read
recently with don bradley
i've got an interview coming up with him
that will be published i've already done
the interview but it will put that
he says something really interesting in
that book i think it's in the book or it
might just be in the interview
and and that is on the plate the title
that moroni has this is not just a title
the plate that he marks his seal on the
of moroni so when we understand that the
abridged by mormon and sealed
that is literal it is physical he
physically seals this up and that
doesn't mean just that it's bound
or or locked in place right it means
that he puts his mark on it his mark of
authority like you would into
like a ring or a marker that would go
into wax that seals a scroll
that's how we need to think of that the
book of mormon was sealed
up by moroni with his seal well we know
based on the early saints anyway and
descriptions from them especially
who was responsible for most of the lost
116 pages of being described with joseph
on those pages that the description of
has a marking of it looks like a seal of
which includes may not be all of it but
a square and a compass right the compass
odd right why would it have this a lot
well that's a masonic symbol those are
no the the masonic symbols are borrowed
right they're borrowed from ancient
middle eastern tradition and an
for example temple building these are
things that are done in temples these
buildings and for astronomy which is
what a temple is all about really right
orienting yourselves to the cosmos
right a right angle using a compass for
these things are very important when
you're when you're building a temple
and you're trying to line yourself up up
right remember the temple of solomon
starts from the east it goes to the west
and most temples do right they go
through these things they're very much
with the seasons with the day with the
with the equinoxes with the solstices
and so a compass and square very
temple but the other thing he brings up
here that's very interesting is he says
that the interpreters that are the
sometimes they're called interpreters
sometimes we we we look at urine and
thumb some people have said that these
are separate and different
but it looks like the interpreters that
were sealed up with the book of mormon
with the breastplate right that they
clear diamond glass looking stones
and he also says don bradley also says
that these these would be sealed in a
those engraven images of a compass and a
and so you have to ask yourself well
are they in the same shape we do have
descriptions of those interpreters
being in the shape of a triangle
right and and and you know that a a
right is only two lines that give you a
right angle a 90 degree angle
it's not the whole square we think of
right so a tool is a square so that you
can make sure you can create a right
half of a square or kind of like a
the the compass however typically would
so that would be a 90 degree angle the
compass would be a little more narrow
right it would have an angle perhaps of
right and so it would have the same
length on both sides and then a much
base on it so we can ask ourselves did
these interpreters represent the compass
in the square is that how it works
that's a very interesting to think of
thing to think about because
the compass and the square then are what
to the vessels and the stones are
and the vessels are prepared by god
you're out of the temple experience
you're now moving out into what a new
so the light coming out upon the deep
right that's what that's about
and so if we look at it that way that's
kind of like the the adventure here that
the jaredites are going to be taking
it's a new creation it's a new people
and they're going out in a sense out
dreary world what do they need
where do we find that in the temple
right as adam and eve are going to go
out into the lone and jury world they
right and there are things there that
very closely with what we're talking
about here in these symbols
of these stones then if that's the case
and so we can imagine okay we talked
about this before the higher and the
lower law the vessels are kind of like
well they are kind of like our bodies
right so if we need light for those
for those bodies here where are we going
to get them from we're going to get them
perhaps symbols something prepared by
to offer protection and light
that include a compass and a square the
the symbols that come from the temple
i think that's pretty interesting that's
i don't think that's too much of a
to uh to look into that it's not
i haven't read that before but um there
are some parallels there and if we're
using temple imagery and drama we can
we can make a couple of at least some
assumptions there on that
i think it's pretty interesting to
we get here in verse three right and
thus the lord caused stones
to shine in darkness to give light unto
women and children that's us this is all
us just like the creation story is about
the adam and eve story in the garden of
eden is about us it's not a history
doesn't mean some of those things didn't
happen the jaredi story is is a history
that it is about us to give us lessons
it's temple imagery to give light unto
men women and children that they might
not cross the great waters
in darkness that is our mortality
as we go across these waters we need
light we need protection and then down
in verse 5 i think this is interesting
to contemplate as well everything comes
from the lord i've always
been more of a person that talks about
things in a very practical sense
right i believe in natural law i believe
and so sometimes for me i make the
of thinking how uninvolved the lord
right it's like oh well this these are
our choices these are obviously the
consequences that are automatically
about because of choices that i made for
example right there are natural
and spiritual laws and if i follow them
i have certain consequences if i don't
follow them i have other consequences
and i think that's true but that's not
saw it those anciently saw that
the lord's hand was in everything and
and in a sense it is right because
as you make decisions the laws
of this mortality were set up by the
and so if i make a bad decision and i
end up with consequences because of that
then the ancients would say that the
lord did punish him or curse him or
right because of what i did it's not
that the lord's going out and zapping me
or something but the laws that he set up
are you know you could look at that as
because he set those laws up his hand is
in that way and i think that's a better
you know i i kind of i have this whole
idea of practical theology and i think
that's a good way to look at things
but because like maybe somehow it makes
it's an intellectual approach and that
may not be the best approach
but i i think i need to maybe you too
need to think more about how the lord is
in everything because of the way he has
and in verse 5 we get this it says and
it came to pass that the lord caused
furious wind blow upon the face of the
this is interesting because last week we
went over how with the tower of
uh babel right that it and we have
reference to how that may have been
blown down from the great winds
uh the f as nibbly calls it a a wind of
a flood of wind just like there was a
before that and in fact right one of the
reasons they're building the tower of
is to not receive judgment
from the lord it's not just that they
want to do it themselves and get to the
top and get to the stars and the heavens
all on their own that's a big part of it
right it's a great representation of
the opposite of the of the doctrine of
christ and the tree of life
the tower of babel is the great spacious
right but the other reason they do it is
because they want to avoid
they they want to avoid the the idea of
the atonement they want to avoid the
they want nothing to do with the heavens
that includes judgment they want to do
and so the judgment that they are used
to there that they that they have in
through time and through generations is
and so if they can build the tower high
they can raise themselves up and not
have the consequences of the flood
right that's another way to look at that
we have reference to the tower of babel
it was actually blown down and there
and there are geological evidences of
of these winds right the kind of the
dried things out it created
uh droughts and and deserts as nibbly
well here we have an example of a mighty
wind these winds that are blowing
and so how do they get there to the
promised land it's because the lord
is blowing this wind right
to push them toward the promised land
what else does the wind cause the wind
the barges to go at times down into the
to be drowned in the sea as we're told
what they call mountain waves and
right you can imagine being these barges
and being in these storms
well that's the lord the lord is
actually pushing them forward
and maybe that's how we ought to look at
right the lord is pushing us toward the
promised land he's giving us everything
in other words we have a headwind
toward the promised land but that
environment that he has created for us
to get to the promised land
and that adversity is required for us to
to expand to stretch and to become
more like the savior that's a
representation of going to the promised
obviously spiritually and so
i think that's a good way to look at
that i don't doubt that moroni has
something like this in mind
as as he's talking about this they were
upon the waves of the sea before the
there were many times they were buried
because of the mountain waves which
broke upon them and that also the great
which were caused by the fierceness of
can we handle that understanding that
the lord's plan gives us the headwind
but gives us the adversity also and then
being protected a vessel a body or more
a garment right in verse seven and it
came to pass that when they were buried
there was no water that could hurt them
their vessels being tight like unto a
that's a representation of me and also
they were tight like under the ark of
therefore when they were encompassed
they did cry into the lord and he did
upon the top of the water so they were
protected but they still had to reach
but what's important here is he also
brings up the ark of noah
right we can also bring up the ship from
and understand that these were very
specific ways to build these vessels
things that you might need a compass and
temples right the ark of noah
is a temple and that's the one where in
really get the specifics of how to build
it just like we do with the tabernacle
from moses and the the in solomon's
right the the specifics of the sizes how
big what is it going to be built with
what are the angles right those are all
really important with with noah's ark
the temple of solomon the tabernacle
we may not get the specifics with the
barges here but i'm guessing that this
very very specific and the same idea
where you would need tools like a
compass and a square to build
these barges and the same would be
pertinent to nephi's ship when he built
right these this is all information that
came from the lord these are temples
what are the real temples it's not the
and announced in general conference
those are a representation of something
those are a representation of our bodies
our bodies are the real temples
right they're the ones that go through
the ordinances these bodies and
we have to have a body to do it for the
dead right you have to have a temple
they go through the ordinances they go
they arrive at the veil they arrive
at the promised land right and these
bodies these temples need
protection and we do that in the temple
we get that from being a temple goer
and literally physically we get that
something we do every day or should be
doing every day and wearing the garment
which is a lot like these vessels and a
those two stones that are in each one of
and then just real quick here down in
verse 13 they arrive at the promised
and it came to pass that they went forth
upon the face of the land and began to
this happens every time you have a new
end up on a new promised land this is
they began to tell the earth why mention
this right it's a temple reference
it's a similar word to what is used for
the priests while they are maintaining
right noah arrives what does he do he
so this this is important to look at
what does adam have to do
and he goes out into the lone jury world
he has to work by the sweat of his brow
and then the brother of jared and jared
bring everybody together because they're
both getting old and they're going to
and my guess is they want to give them a
blessing that's that's what they wanted
it doesn't say that but i'm guessing in
the unabridged version they give
the brother of jared does at least
but the people there right there it
looks to me like there's 22 couples
and their families their children plus
the brother of jared and his wife
plus jared and his wife so maybe 24
couples i'm guessing some of them all
and what do they ask for they ask for a
the brother of jared and jared are not
real happy with this but they acquiesce
jared o'reich agrees to it and he's a
he starts off as a good king but we get
this and i think moroni inserts this
it says and it came to pass that araika
did walk humbly before the lord
and did remember how great things the
lord had done for his father
and also taught his people how great
things the lord had done for their
the book of mormon brings this theme up
all the time about remembering we get
every week in the sacrament it's key to
remembering the great things the lord
pertinent very uh appropriate uh
for the season that we're in right now
and for what we received the message we
president nelson as i'm recording this
about gratitude that has a lot to do
right about the idea of remembering the
positive things that the lord has done
that is a spirit of gratitude and moroni
keeps bringing that up with the
kings whenever there's a righteous king
he seems to bring that up that they did
the great things that the lord had done
and then it's kind of interesting here
in chapter seven we learn more about
writing in the northern country where
and had their their cities he's in the
he's probably abridging this somewhere
which may very well be a jaredite name
because that's where all the records
were kept in the northern
areas much further north than zarahemla
this is toward the land of desolation
from the jaredites so he's in these
lands this is where he mostly dwells and
moroni and mormon is in these northern
the jaredites were then down at the
bottom of chapter seven here we have
and again he's a righteous king and
again what does moroni say about him
he remembered the great things
that the lord had done for his fathers
in bringing them across the great deep
wherefore he did execute judgment and
righteousness all his days
so another way to look at this then as
we talk about remembering
and being able to focus on gratitude a
thought that comes to me when i think
about this is the temple itself
right and and remember the temple is
giving us the full plan of salvation
it's giving us the opportunity to
into the future where we're going where
becoming co-inheritors co-heirs with
in the promised land in in all that the
but what it also does i think is it
gives us because we go through that
that story that progression all the way
even though we haven't really done that
yet we've done it symbolically in the
it gives us a chance to move that to a
memory right we can remember
we can pull from that experience and
what the lord has done for us because
for us to be able to get to the promised
land to get to the celestial kingdom
right and so by turning that that
drama right into a future event
into what is meant to be for us
we can also use that as a memory we can
in remembering what great things the
lord has done for us and pull from those
experiences when we go to the temple
okay then getting to chapter eight here
we get into the secret combinations
and and this is important to understand
this goes all the way back to kane and
look a little bit differently at the
than maybe you've done in the past that
a history either not the way it's
written doesn't mean it didn't happen
but it's not meant to be a history of
and just a brother killing another
written in a way that tells us about
and tells us about palace intrigue
so to speak right all of these stories
the book of ether i mean the whole thing
it's about infidelity right it's it's
scandal it it's about one brother a
serping another or usurping his father
killing one of his sons because he's
threatening him and his reign right well
this is an important thing to understand
in the ancient world and in fact it go
just going back to the medieval world
right and the renaissance world right
crucial things to understand and they
would these things would permeate the
country the entire civilization under
that king or into that queen
into that that royal family who's going
to rule next who is next in line
even today people love to follow for
the the royal family of england
right of the uk and who who's going to
rule next and what if this person
doesn't make it or they get who would be
the same thing happens in ancient
is kind of a mirror image with families
right it's the same idea you would have
is going to receive double the portion
who is that going to be think of the
right he's driven toward a larger family
which we can see a larger
kingdom that is as large as the the
number of stars in the sky or the sands
and who is going to be the heir to that
who he wants to create something for the
air well at first it's nobody
in fact it's a lazier which is the the
hebrew for the greek lazarus it's a
different lazarus obviously
but it's his servant because he doesn't
he doesn't have a child so at first it
there's going to be someone we can look
at it like someone's going to be adopted
right it's not really from his blood and
it looks like the servant's going to be
the one that inherits everything but
then he has ishmael with hagar
so ishmael is now the heir well of
sarah gives birth to isaac
and being that the mother typically is
if we look at that closely she drives
along with ishmael and she's like no
this is this is my son's deal
right isaac isaac gets this and
so you know it's it's very this is a
very important part of the story in fact
it's most of the story that we get
up until isaac gets a little bit older
his almost sacrifice and so
it that's what this is all about we see
happening the scandals and and how the
but that is a very important theme
in our reality in mortality
and not just immortality look at the
who was going to rule you had the heir
the king of kings the prince of peace
christ but you had an a serper an
right who was the son of the morning who
a third of the host of heaven away from
why because he wanted to assert
christ and the father he wanted
all of the glory so even in the
pre-mortal life we get this
palace intrigue so to speak and and
that's what's happening here in ether
but back to these secret combinations we
he is going to reintroduce this right
this goes all the way back to kane this
chapter 8 verse 13 and it came to pass
unto the house of jared all his kinsfolk
and said unto them will ye swear unto me
that you will be faithful unto me in the
thing which i shall desire of you
okay so he's going to commit them to him
through an oath he's going to make a
and the way i see this typically is it
starts off with the carrot right you've
got the carrot and the stick
it starts off with a carrot why because
it would be these are my kids folk these
are the people that are close to me and
if i am a ruler over everything and i
can oppress others and lay
heavy taxes upon them you can get
anything you want if you're with me
you can be a part of this right let me
i will entice you with gain i will
power you can be in this group with me
all right starts with a carrot but then
it goes beyond that right here in 14
and it came to pass that they all swear
unto him by the god of heaven
and also by the heavens we get the same
thing with the gadian robbers they swear
when they do this and also by the earth
that whoso should vary from the
assistance which akish desired
should lose his head and whoso should
divulge whatsoever thing a kish made
their secret plans the same should lose
his life all right so this
is a covenant this is the way covenants
it's just the opposite of a spiritual
remember when mormon goes or uh yeah
captain moore captain moroni goes around
with the title of liberty
and what do the people do they make a
they they rip their own garments and
they throw it out there to be trampled
upon by moroni and maybe his group
and what do they say if we don't live up
to trying our best here and obeying the
commandments and fighting with
may what happens to these garments that
are trampled upon happened to us
that's how the penalty works the
we used to have this in the temple but
people didn't really understand them
very well they had to be withdrawn
right the penalties are symbolic
the penalties are there to act as a
to your fidelity to the to the covenant
right it's a spiritual symbolism and
it's the same thing that you get with
look if you i'm gonna you're gonna make
a covenant with me because you're gonna
you're gonna be enticed for gain
but if you divulge any of this or go
outside of our orthodoxy what our
with this party rule that we want then
all right so now all of a sudden it's
not just the carrot now it's the stick
also pretty firm right so you get people
involved they don't want to die they
start off with what the gain is
but oh there's there's going to be a
as well a pretty drastic one and we get
this here in verse 15 it says and it
came to pass that thus they did agree
and the kish did administer unto them
which were given by them of old who also
right power and gain this is where these
most of us here in a at least in a first
most of us are dealing with the carrot
few of us deal yet with the stick in
right it's not to that degree yet but
that's where these things go
given by them of old who also sought
power which had been handed down
who was a murderer from the beginning
this is key to understand the story of
is not the story of just kane and
there's not much there to that story
there are a lot of murders in life
there are a lot of things it's like
christ if we look at him he just died
we're missing out on quite a bit right
story is really all about it's the same
now in genesis we don't get a whole lot
right we we and we we also almost get
cain and abel are the first two sons of
adam and eve which is not true at all
again we've got to stop looking at these
and understand why these stories are
kill you abel yes he did but
how is the story told and what is the
purpose of it what is the context
what is the richness and the lessons
if you read in moses 5 i'm not going to
you'll see go ahead and read that
chapter cain and abel are not the first
to adam and eve there are a lot of
in that story in in moses 5 on the face
a lot the story isn't about cain and
abel being the first two sons and what
of cain and abel is about secret
and in moses 5 cain makes a covenant
an oath with satan and he is the first
to do this or the first we know of to do
and what he says is i want
what abel has abel is the ruler so to
speak he's the heir he's the righteous
his wealth i want his leadership
i want the power and i want the gain
and what is the covenant then that is
cain is going to kill abel for that
power and gain and he does
and he says am i my brother's keeper we
but what's the opposite of that cain
am i my brother's keeper to me this is
all about the doctrine of christ
cain and abel is about the doctrine of
cain offers us a sacrifice that is
supposed to be looking forward to the
but he doesn't believe in the savior he
doesn't believe the doctrinal cost
that's that's what i get out of it
abel does and therefore the
god god respects the sacrifice of abel
sacrifice of cain well what is the
the doctrine of christ it's saying am i
well that's everything that the doctrine
was christ his brother and his sisters
that's where the doctrine of christ is
these secret combinations are set up as
and of course cain becomes what we call
he's in charge of this secret society
that's what that means who is he master
over well he actually ends up being
but he's master over everybody else that
joins this secret society
right and then down through the
generations we get lamech and lamech is
he becomes master mahan same oaths
same secret society same secret
right and and he builds this out with a
lot of other people that become members
cain and abel is about the doctrine of
christ and secret combinations we should
we should look at that chapter five of
and understand it just a couple of
tidbits here about these and now this is
down in verse 20 and now i i do
not write the manner of their olds or
combinations he doesn't want to put
doesn't want to give any help for it
hath been made known unto me that they
all people that's interesting
right they're had among all people and
they are had among the lamanites
and they have caused the destruction of
this people of whom i am now speaking
and also the destruction of the people
why are cain and abel such why is that
it's the story of the naphites and the
it's the story of the geradites
their civilizations are destroyed
from the secret combinations the same
right we need to tie that together and
we're told very early on about this but
some of this is left out in genesis we
from joseph smith and moses 5.
and then another purpose for the secret
combination in verse 25 for it cometh to
that whoso buildeth it up that's the
to overthrow the freedom of all lands
nations and countries and it bringeth to
pass the destruction of the people
so remember one of those great themes
throughout the book of mormon is liberty
right that's that's it goes right along
with the doctrine of christ and then of
course the gathering of israel
and the covenant made with israel so
ultimately the secret combination wants
all of those things they want to destroy
they make their own covenants they want
to destroy the doctrine of christ
and they want to destroy liberty that is
and their had among all people
we get this in chapter 9 verse 3 and the
lord warned omer in a dream
omer is the true heir but a kish
overthrows him with the secret
that he should depart out of the land
well that's what happens with lehigh
right were there secret combinations
going on in jerusalem i think absolutely
wherefore omar departed out of the land
with his family and traveled many days
and came over and passed by the hill of
shem this is this is where moroni is
probably as he's abridging this
where all the records are where the
nephites were destroyed this is up
uh kimora right where everyone was
then verse 11 now the people of akish
even as akish was desirous for power
that's what this is about
wherefore the sons of akish did offer
by which means they drew away the more
part of the people after them
okay these are the tools the carrot and
another just piece of trivia down here
in verse 31 and there came forth
also upon the face of the land this is a
very common thing right this is what
the children of israel as is there's a
plague of serpents maybe from the ten
it could be that that's what the result
of this was was this plague of snakes
this is a very common thing to happen i
a couple references to plagues of snakes
there was one recently in guam poison
snakes there was one in iraq
a few years back where the euphrates had
and it's both from flooding and from
in a large river like that of course
that's one of the largest rivers there
and it caused a plague of snakes it's a
then lastly in chapter 11 we have
here in verse one and they there came
many prophets and prophesied of the
great destruction of that great people
except they should repent
and turn unto the lord and forsake their
murders and wickedness right they don't
turn to the lord because they're denying
and it came to pass the prophets were
and down in verse 5 and it came to pass
that the brother of shiblom
caused that all the prophets who
prophesied of the destruction of the
should be put to death that doesn't just
happen here that happens throughout all
the old testament over and over again
right because the prophets were saying
that the bones of the people
should become as heaps of earth upon the
except they should repent of their
well we know that's exactly what ends up
happening that is the land of desolation
limhi king limhi sends off his
to go back and try and find the land of
zarahemla well they don't find the land
but they find the land of desolation
hundreds of thousands maybe millions of
and among those bones they find the 24
which is what moroni is abridging right
so so we know that this is exactly what
happened well this is exactly what
happened with the nephites
right at the hillsham and in the land
where they are utterly destroyed
and their bones were heaped up and i
think we ought to look at a reference
here to again going back again to
chapter 37 of ezekiel where we get the
stick of judah and the stick of ephraim
joseph right and that vision when it
starts off what does he see he sees a
and these bones are actually the the
but they're just bones but eventually
the the flesh put upon them and they
right well what is that well what
happens here if we go through here we
that the doctrine of christ as it is
turns the people into a heap of bones
that's what ends up happening but when
which would be the flesh being put onto
these bones in ezekiel's vision i
then they come to life and they flourish
and israel comes back to what it's
supposed to be because it remembers
the abrahamic covenant it remembers the
of christ and so in these chapters
what we see as the jaredites
turn from the doctrine of christ and
and start up their secret combinations
which were started with cain
same thing that they end up
moving to a point right regressing until
piled up as heaps of bones
and yet the opposite is what happens in
when israel the bones the dry bones the
puts christ on it flourishes
and comes back to life these stories
are about the doctrine of christ i
believe that cain and abel and their
are specifically about the doctrine of
we have two decisions to make the tower
great and spacious building on one side
and the tree of life or the or the
on the other i'll talk to you next time
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