all right welcome to Quick show my name
is Greg Matson and I your host in this
episode we're going to talk about
confusion and Clarity in the church in
regards to the lgbtq issues and much of
what we're seeing Happening Here in our
day and age uh within the church we're
going to have to learn to walk the edge
of the sword I do want to say before we
get into this be sure to go to Isaiah
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it.com backs subscribe first off Jacob
Hansen of thoughtful Faith put out a
video today very much articulating the
confusion that many members of the
church have I want to add some
additional Clarity I believe to what he
is saying and what is happening and what
isn't happening in regards to these
very confusing issues there seems to be
many mixed signals coming from Salt Lake
where we have a specific message from
the pulpit and yet it seems at times in
practice something completely different
is happening so let's cover the
confusion first and then let's move
ourselves back to some clarity here
first because of some of the things that
are happening many people believe that
this is simply a road being paved toward
same-sex marriage in the temple that's
the big thing it is hoped for by some
members some people put their hope in
this change instead of their hope in
Christ and others are just very fearful
that that might be where we're going and
somehow everything that we've been
taught in terms of the doctrine of the
family which is part of the doctrine of
Christ and everything we go through in
the temple is somehow going to unravel I
had an interview a year or two ago with
scholar Patrick Mason and he gave the
example of concentric circles of
Doctrine whereas on the outside edges of
these concentric circles there are
doctrines that are kind of iffy and they
can be changed and as you move closer
and closer to the center of these the
circles you end up with eternal truths
that cannot
change and there is the
implication that same-sex marriage in
the temple is one of these concentric
circles that is more toward the outside
that is something that could change but
I would completely disagree with that I
mean where do you go from there I mean
after that we get to what the atoning
sacrifice of Jesus Christ and faith and
repentance in that
sacrifice is that a core Eternal truth
are there any core Eternal truths we
have a large change in our culture right
now we have a new ideology that is
spreading like a brush fire throughout
the United States and many parts of the
West with Gen Z one of four individuals
now identifies as
nonbinary right in Utah the Salt Lake
Tribune has an article out today saying
that Utah has a growing demand for
gender affirming care as lawmakers
consider anti-lgbtq bills this is front
and center we need to understand that as
a
church we are human beings that are
product to some degree of our culture
that culture is changing we recently
highlighted the new managing director of
communications with a church who has
advocated for same-sex marriage and the
pride movement we've talked a lot about
what Deseret Book has been doing in the
books that they sell and the support
that they seem to give to those that are
advocating for the pride movement again
this is not about loving someone who is
lgbtq that's not the point this is about
ideology this is about things that are
unraveling this is about President
Nelson's identity hierarchy where we are
in this new ideology lifting these other
identities way above the importance of
being a child of God a child of the
Covenant and a disciple of Christ this
week and come follow me on lds.org we
have the Rainbow Tree of Life now again
I need to be very clear I have spoken to
the artist on this she says that this
has zero intention of
being a pride Tree of Life this exact
image is being used all over social
media by those who advocate for the
pride movement this here is one of many
many examples found throughout social
media so again does this all pave the
way for the church to open up same sex
marriage in the temple like Jacob from
thoughtful faith I'm going to take a
clip here from W Radio podcast
is gay marriage on the table is a
genuine question I I proposed a question
on Twitter people got mad at me for
asking but it's very relevant to what's
happening today if this is the future
and this is the direction the church has
said Hey in 20 years we're going to be a
we're going to be a church that allows
gay marriage all right so this is an
inevitable question that people are
going to
have and and that's where all this
confusion comes from how solid is the
doctrine of the family and I think we
need to look at a few things here first
of all let me say something it is not
going to happen that change will not
happen that is a core Central doctrine
of the gospel and what we really need to
focus on is the words of the prophets
and the scriptures listen to the general
conference talks and the apostles and
see how clear they are on this let's go
to some this Clarity right now back in
November of
2022 president Oaks especially was
talking about the respect for Marriage
Act and helping to support it past
that's already confusing but with that
right here is the release from the
church on November 15
2022 very blatant it says the doctrine
of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints related to marriage
between a man and a woman is well known
and will remain unchanged changed a
month later when the rfma was signed the
church came out with another statement
and says here as restated last month the
doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints related to marriage
between a man and a woman is well known
and will remain unchanged so while these
other things are going on causing
confusion and they do cause confusion
that's a natural reaction it's okay
there is a consistent message from the
Brethren over the pulpit and Beyond
about marriage being between a man and a
woman just last October in general
conference three different times by
three
different members of the 15 including
the prophet mentioned marriage between a
man and a woman in the doctrine of the
family listen to what they say this is
ELD
kristopherson he States the highest and
holiest manifestation of the cealing
power is in the Eternal Union of a man
and a woman in marriage and the linking
of humankind through all generations and
he explains this talking about the
cealing power of the temple and the
priesthood which is the name the seiling
power is the name of his talk he says
without the ceilings that create Eternal
families and Link Generations here and
Hereafter we would be left in eternity
with neither Roots nor branches
everything falls apart that is neither
ancestry nor posterity
that is accomplished through a union of
a man and a woman he goes on to say we
can see why marriage between a man and a
woman is ordained of God and that the
family is Central to the Creator's plan
for the Eternal Destiny of his children
and that's not all president Oaks in his
talk kingdoms of Glory from October of
2023 says the following God's plan
founded on Eternal truth requires that
exaltation can be attained only through
faithfulness to the covenants of an
eternal marriage between a man and a
woman in the Holy Temple which marriage
will ultimately be available to all the
faithful right that does not mean that
the marriage will that marriage will be
available to other types of
unions it means that marriage between a
man and a woman this is exactly what
he's saying is available to all faithful
whether it's in this life or the life to
come that is why we teach that gender he
confirms it here why gender is an
essential characteristic of individual
premortal mortal and eternal identity
and purpose a uniquely valuable teaching
to help us prepare for exaltation is the
1995 Proclamation on the family its
declarations clarify the requirements
that prepare us to live with God the
father and his son Jesus Christ those
who do not fully understand the father's
loving plan uh for his children may
consider the family proclamation no more
than a changeable statement of policy
this is what we're starting to get out
there in contrast we affirm that the
family proclamation founding on founded
on irrevocable Doctrine defines the
Mortal family relationship where the
most important part of our Eternal
development can occur and lastly
the prophet himself in a talk that is
referenced all the time but this part
isn't brought up or he's talking about
thinking Celestial he brings up marriage
between a man and a woman in regards to
thinking
Celestial he States here the Lord has
clearly taught that only men and women
who are sealed as husband and wife in
the temple and who keep their covenants
will be together throughout the
eternities
he said all covenants contracts bonds
obligations Oaths vows performances
connections associations or
expectations that are not made and
entered into and sealed by the Holy
Spirit of Promise have an end when men
are dead so three different times just
in the last General Conference from the
pulpit the prophet a member of the first
presidency and an apostle all confirm
that the doctrine of the family is
centered around the ceiling of a man and
a woman in the temple that this is the
focus as an
ordinance to exaltation so when we see
these other things starting to happen of
course it's going to bring confusion and
it's not a bad thing to wonder why but
that big change is not going to happen
and what is so
unfortunate is so many people out there
who advocate for Pride push it all the
way to the point of putting a hope in a
change for the temple ceiling and it
moves you from a hope in Christ and his
sacrifice and your suffering and and
your difficulties and putting that on
the altar of the atoning sacrifice of
Jesus Christ over to putting your
investment in a hope for change it is
moving from a hope in Christ to a hope
in
change and that to me is really the
issue here of who is really loving those
individuals affirming something that is
a nontruth is not helping anyone now
that doesn't mean that within the church
it's membership its leadership Etc that
these ideas and our cultural change is
not going to seep in and grab a hold of
number of people it already
has in fact if I were to guess just
studying many other institutions
including other Christian
denominations this will come all the way
to the porch of your front door the
front door of the
church the front door of the temple and
it's going to knock on that
door but it is not going to
change there is zero IND ation from the
words of the prophets or anywhere in
Scripture that that would
change so we can question and wonder and
be confused about many other decisions
that are going on I think there's going
to be a lot more of that the question is
is can you walk the edge of the sword
I'm going to
believe what the prophets say I'm going
to support them in that Doctrine they
have asked for others to defend the
doctrine of the family I'm going to do
that I'm going to sustain them in their
words I can wonder about the rest I can
question about the rest but I'm going to
stick to what they say and if you think
that it is changing and they're going to
change what you're saying is that they
are lying to the church that they are
actually blatantly lying to the church
while behind the scenes they're planning
on something else or preparing for
something else that's what you have to
bite off on for me that's not going to
happen there's a lot of things that we
don't understand why they happen the
church is a very big
operation and there are other reasons
throughout the world why they make
certain
decisions sometimes they might seem
concerning sometimes they are concerning
but at the end of the day I'm going to
follow the scriptures that I study
regularly
and I'm going to follow the words of the
prophets that are stated to the
membership of the church and I'm going
to feel like I am on Solid ground with
two
feet when I support the doctrine of the
family talking about the doctrine of the
family supporting it as the rest of the
western world is breaking it apart is
not using it as a cudgel or a club
if the traditional family falls apart
civilization falls apart the church
falls
apart progress for all of us within the
Plan of Salvation starts to fall apart
there's not a lot of warning voices out
there or calling out what is happening
and and there must be good reason for
that I don't know what it
is my guess is eventually the confusion
among the members of the church
and many members of the church that are
really struggling with this and many
falling away because of these things and
this concern about where this is heading
I think eventually it's going to
necessitate
voices speaking directly to these issues
the doctrine of the family is an eternal
principle these doctrines not the
individuals not the lgbtq individuals
the
ideology that is tied to
identitarianism critical theory and
intersectionality postmodernism a lot of
these things that have been pulled
together
here to give us what I call the religion
of Academia and this massive
philosophical worldview change that we
are going through right
now is all based on secular
ideas and as the one who has probably
seen our times better than anyone else
recently Elder Maxwell has stated you
have eternalism versus
secularism I want to go to a couple of
his quotes here just to finish he has a
great talk that I've talked about a
couple of times here uh that speaks
exactly to the problem that we are
looking at here remember in his time
some of these big issues had to do more
with economic and what we call
materialism right it was a communist
type of an idea that we were worried
about today it is still a marxian
ideology that wraps all these things
together but it's not about economy
necessarily it's not about materialism
necessarily it's now about
culture and between eternalism and
secularism these are all secular ideas
that are coming to us right
now he says there are significant
differences involved in these two
distinct approaches to the problems that
confront man and these differences have
serious implications for the individual
errant or random do goodis right these
ideologies play on people's hearts on
their empathy and they use it as a
carrot to bring them in errant or random
do godism has so often been sincere but
has ended up being ineffective or is
reminiscent of straightening deck chairs
on thep Titanic that's what we're going
through now the wrong kind of help isn't
really helpful it is often
harmful for Solutions become problems
the actual
Solutions like changing your hope become
the real problems even bigger problems
he States the new secular moral geometry
with its fluid lines alien angles and
Restless points rejects the idea of
Divine Design in the
universe like
gender but then naively seeks to muster
righteous indignation in behalf of the
disadvantaged this is critical theory
but without any corresponding concern
over the need for non-economic Morality
or non-cultural Morality In other words
something beyond what is happening in
the
culture a Divine morality the very
values necessary to make indignation
righteous while there are often as
between eternalism and secularism shared
concerns there is also a very sharp
Divergence in terms of the solutions
proposed just remember that what you
hear in the world today in the west in
the United States on these cultural
changes and these ideologies these are
secular and their Solutions are
secular and then finally this where
reform and desirable change are
concerned eternalism opts for conditions
that facilitate true individual growth
this is the
key this is the
key letting the consequences of any
successes Ripple
outward
secularism tends to want to deal
increasingly with systems right systemic
racism governments right let's get the
government to deal with this
labels it's
intersectionality
groups with adjustments in the things
outside man like I've always stated
these ideologies want you to look at
what is out there the problem is always
out there it's not in you this is this
is the same issue from the beginning of
time it has not changed move
responsibility from yourself out to
somebody else or another group this is
what critical social justice does and if
I take away my own repentance and my own
issues of having to change then that
means I don't need to lean on the
atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ I can
just blame the systems the government ad
labels
Etc there is a lot of confusion out
there and I don't know if it's going to
get better it's probably
not we do live in the last days and
secularism is spreading look at already
the dissolution of the family how many
single parents there are out there
compared to just 253 years ago and 30
years before that look at the increasing
rise in secularism and the drop in
religiosity I think that our calling in
the last days as those who have received
the truths of the restored gospel is to
walk the edge of the
sword we need to work harder at finding
truth that's not a bad calling that is a
calling asking us to progress
more that is a calling asking us to
exert more faith when I say faith I
don't mean Blind Faith I mean really
searching and discovering Truth Listen
to the prophets and read the scriptures
and stick with those messages
thanks for
[Music]
listening
