is Greg Matson and I am your host in
this episode we are talking about the
decline of the church the Christian
church in the US and in the west what's
going on how does the church itself the
Church of Jesus Christ of latterday
saints fit into all of this and do we go
along with the saint
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all right so several things to talk
about here on this episode that I think
are very vital very pertinent to the
Church of Jesus Christ of latterday
Saints first of all what I want to talk
about is Christianity as a whole and
what's happening in the de churching so
to speak of Christianity in the United
States there is a political scientist
who is a researcher and Pastor himself
he is also a professor and political
scientist his name is Ryan Burge I've
been following for quite some time but
he puts out some amazing data on
Christianity especially and his research
on the declining levels of religious
participation provides the basis for
example for the book The Great de
churching by Jim Davis and Michael
Graham now they say that what we're
seeing right now in the United States is
the largest and fastest religious shift
in US history that's either way
you go back you talk about the Great
Awakening right uh or the Second Great
Awakening even the changes to the
positive for religion do not match
anywhere close to what we are seeing
anywhere close to what we're seeing in
the det churching of America today this
shift shows that one in six
Americans have stopped going to church
in the past 30 years so not counting
those that already were not going to
church at all but adding now the last 30
years one in six Americans that's 40
million people have stopped going to
church in the last 30 years that's the
net number in 2019 the last time we have
the data on this information with the
Protestants they had 3,000 new
Protestant churches open and
4500 closed that's in one year the
United States has dropped recently down
to the 61st most religious country in
the world world still ahead of the
European countries and you think about
what that means it's you know religion
is what you were tied closest to and if
you have these other especially in the
Middle East right where you've got other
countries their their focus is their
religion that is their culture that is
what drives them that is their political
positioning uh that used to be more the
case with the United States even though
we're looking for pluralism here you had
a very Christian Nation Still Still
Christian I think 70% at least identify
still as Christian but that number
continues to drop but not very active
anymore uh compared to where we were 30
years ago here's some other interesting
information there is what we call the
god gap which is the concept that
Democrats right members of the
democratic party have left religion more
quickly than those of the Republicans
well this is without question here's
some numbers on this and this isn't even
meant to be political it's just we want
to look at what is happening right now
in the United States for an atheistic or
agnostic belief right from 1982 to 2022
that's a 34-year period back in 1988 5%
of members of the democratic party
identified as atheist or agnostic
5% right the the Republicans in 1988 4%
so it was very very close now let's see
what has happened here in the last 34
years the dams have gone to
20% of the Democrat Party have now
become atheist or
agnostic okay that's in in the Democrat
Party in the Republican party it's moved
up from 4 to 6% so we see that God Gap
really expanding very strongly here's
another one in uh 197 2 to 2022 so the
last 50 years the Democrat member the
members of the Democrat Party were 9% of
those that never attended church that
has now gone to
37% now this one's a little bit closer
not quite the same Gap but in 1972 for
Republicans 8% never attended so still
again very close to where the Democrat
Party were was right they have gone up
to
23% so 37% for the dams 23% for the
Republicans here now since
2022 here's another one the nuns right
those that no longer belong to any any
Christian denomination they go to a
non-denominational or or affiliate with
non-denominational churches back in 1972
50 years ago
plus the Dems were at 4% the Republicans
at 3% again very close
you now have the dams who are now at
33%
33% and for the Republicans 14% so you
see this moving out and away from a
specific theology a a specific uh
perhaps even view of a world view right
that that that goes much further out
here with the Democrats than it does
with the Republicans we can see here on
the
graph if you're on
video you can see where uh and this is
from Ryan bur I think this I think the
data from this is coming from the
General Social Survey yep 1972 to 2022
you can see the differences here and and
the disparity and the gaps that are
happening it's very interesting you are
getting a party that is less affiliated
with God than it was you know 30 to 50
years ago which is the
Republicans right that is diminishing
but you are getting a a very much a
political party where now 20% of the
party with the Democrats are atheist or
agnostic and 37% never attend
church okay so more than one in three
never attend church with the Democrat
Party so what happens with this well
what you're going to get then is the
different parties that are playing more
to their base and the Dems are going to
play more and more to a base that is
less
religious that is how it's going to work
here's another one that is really
interesting and I'm not going to bring
this one up but this is from Pew and
they talk about the differences between
Democrats and Republicans on a couple of
different questions that are more about
focused on values and cultural issues
between those that vote for are voting
for Harris and those that are voting for
Trump and I want to focus on two
questions here that came up that I
thought were were fascinating here
here's one um this is a statement that
was put out someone can be a man or a
woman even if that is different from the
sex they were assigned at Birth 7% of
Republicans agreed with this
60% of Democrats believe this okay again
that someone can be a man or a woman not
even feel like one someone can be a man
or a woman even if that is different
from the sex they were assigned at Birth
and they're not assigned sex right oneir
34% one-third of all
voters um believe that this is true
that's where we are in the US on on
gender and identity I want to go down to
another
one Society is better off in this
statement Society is better off if
people make marriage and having children
a priority
60% of Republicans say this I'm
surprised it's that low uh 60% of
Americans say this
177% of Democrats agree with this
statement that Society is better off if
people make marriage and having children
a priority
39% right almost 40% of all
Americans are are believe that this is
true so less than half believe that we
should be making marriage and children a
priority so as the Sun is setting on the
day of the Gentiles here in the United
States and in
Europe um what is happening what is
going on I think there's a few things we
need to look at number one yes there is
a greater level of secularism happening
in the United States and in the west and
and we are rooting out I believe
systematically the belief in God and
organized religion it is a natural
tendency to move these things out of the
way secondly with family and identity we
are systematically and this is where the
real force is moving from an identity of
man and woman something that is crucial
to the idea of
marriage and family right we are pushing
this further and further to a position
where these things don't matter where we
don't care about gender we don't care
about a man and a woman and the ability
for them to have a family this is not
just a secular push although in the end
it is it is a Corruption of where we
currently are at and the what you see in
the churches today is not a matter of
just focusing on secularism right it's
not Kor it's neor while several
individuals end up in a position of
secularism and and AGN agnos and
becoming agnostics and becoming uh uh
atheists
the hook the carrot for these
individuals especially in the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as I
see it is much more has much more to do
with a Corruption of the church
hierarchal structure with the 15 right
the the Brethren it has a corrup not
them but who corrupt them and view them
as an old white patriarchy right and
then a Corruption of identity which is
happening very quickly and and you see
the recent uh policy change that have
had to be put in place from the from
Salt Lake on transgender transgenderism
right these are things that were just
scratching the surface on these things
and and then ultimately on family and
and and I you
know how many converts have you talked
to that from 10 years or Beyond one of
the major things that they loved about
the church was the focus on
family and how much do we talk about
that anymore you know how many
how many people contacted me saying my
Bishop told me that in my talk on family
I maybe shouldn't bring up the family
proclamation or in my my uh um my Relief
Society lesson or I raised my hand and
talked about the family proclamation and
someone said I was using that as a bully
Club so when we bring up these issues
the question I have as as this shift in
culture continues to move and and bring
us into a uh you know where I believe is
a fulfillment of the hegelian dialectic
a certain Utopia that certain people
search for which is a Corruption of Zion
as the culture moves further and further
into the core and the Heart of
Babylon and and and the valley of death
I believe don't we need to separate
ourselves more and more and become more
that shining city on a hill
or or are we trying to keep a foot in
Babylon right keep a Cottage House a
vacation home as has been stated before
in
Babylon and and wouldn't it matter for
us as far as growth of the church where
we are now still one of the better
growth churches uh in Christianity in
the United States I think we're just o
overall globally we're just over 1% I
believe we used to be when we were
really focused on certain things
especially the family we used to be at a
growth rate of over
4% that was the Heyday right of of of
the late 20th century and it's like what
why aren't we focusing on these things
still and I'm not just talking about
Salt Lake I'm talking about you and me
I'm talking about what we speak about
I'm talking about what we believe in I'm
talking about how do you share the
gospel and your example of your life
with those around
you and and if we were to make that
disparity much larger I think we would
have so many more people looking to the
church as a solution and an alternative
to where the culture is going if we
continue to try and follow the
culture then I think we lose a number of
those people as they say well wait a
minute your your policies your beliefs
your attitudes are just like everybody
else and yet you have that contingent of
membership I think that are wanting so
desperately to be accepted by the world
especially by Christianity as a
whole by following what Babylon is
teaching by following what the culture
is becoming when it comes to uh uh these
Progressive issues that are taking such
a strong hold on our culture today and
yet look at the churches that are
growing we're still hanging in there
some of the strongest churches that
continue to grow are the ones that are
the most
conservative right the Assemblies of God
and those that are um the
Pentecostals uh the Jehovah's
Witnesses right the these are the
churches that are growing at their best
because those that continue to slide
toward a progressive
approach to Identity and family and
Beyond are falling apart they're not
only losing membership they are
splitting over and over again the
methodists and the you're having
problems with the Anglican traditions of
uh with the church of England and um the
episcopalians right you're the these are
uh issues of of with the Southern
Baptist convention that are there's the
writings on the wall there with those
that have leadership and and that
continue to try and make changes with
what was the uh still is by membership
the the most conservative denomination
probably of of all the Protestants but
those that are that have control and
have the largest voices are not in that
vein those are changing quite a bit so
where do we go do you try and appease
those that are around us or do we
distinguish ourselves more and show
people the alternative you don't have to
be weird you can be peculiar but you
don't have to be weird you can be in the
world but not of the world you can
understand and be aware of the
philosophies of men in the world without
being of the philosophies of men that
are in the world and look at ourselves
globally here's where the issue comes
you you'll oftentimes hear the
uh the statement uh that I get
oftentimes by say for example
Progressive members of the church or
individuals that are talking about their
children that identifies a different you
know non-binary or or as uh a different
gender you'll oftentimes hear from them
well if we don't change as a church in
other words go along with Babylon if we
don't go along with these the the
culture then you're going to lose people
like me and my kids and others from the
church so you better
change right you better have women in
the priesthood or you're going to lose
members of the church look that might be
true but there's two things one's
practical and one's just truth do we
follow the world or do we follow the
scriptures and the Lord that regardless
of the consequences that's number one
the Practical point is do you know how
many people we would lose in the
church if if women were given the
priesthood and if we we gave up on
family on the traditional
family then who are
we the the number of people that would
unfortunately leave the church because
of that as compared to those that would
leave because we're not bringing those
things into the church because we don't
have gay marriage in the temple it is
not even close it's a horrible argument
made by those that are trying to to make
change within the church we continue to
dechurch throughout America throughout
with with Christianity and with
throughout the West
why yes it's a matter of a a broader
secularization and a broader lack of
religiosity I believe I would say a lack
of the doctrine of Christ in people's
lives in the west overall but
secondarily it's because of the policies
of going along with the rest of the
world
instead of sticking to True Christian
values that have always been there and
have always existed and I hope that as a
church as members of the church we can
see this and we keep that separation in
place and and we stick to our values and
we give people an opportunity to see the
difference that are not members of the
church stand for what we believe
in message for what we believe in and
give people a choice between the valley
of Babylon and the bright City up on a
hill thanks for listening
