Greg Matsen of Cwic Media Interview on Gruler Nation Podcast

This is the full interview I recently did on Gruler Nation Podcast.

We discuss religion, the church, faith, marriage, social issues and my approach to the scriptures and the gospel in the Come Follow Me program.

 

 

 

this is episode number 19 of the Gruler

nation podcast my name is Robert

Gruler I'm joined today by Greg Matsen

Greg thanks for being here no problem

glad to be here so I'm really excited to

talk to you I know I've known you for a

little bit but as of recent so first of

all let me back up getting ahead of

myself you're a financial planner you

are somebody who is involved in your

faith you're somebody who's been married

for I think you just had your 30 year

anniversary right you've got four kids

and you've got a lot of success but more

recently you've transitioned into

starting your own show your own podcast

it's called quick media and it's

actually spelt in a way that I had not

seen before it's Cwic

can you tell me where did where does

that word come from you said it's an old

English word yeah it's an OL English

English word that basically means living

or alive and for me it was once I

decided to do this I'd been knocking

this around for a while this idea

several years my wife finally got on me

too to get this done and actually it has

a lot to do with my health and just

starting to get better health feeling a

lot better that kind of brought me to

that word that you know this is because

of the health that I have now where it

is improving quite a bit

I just thought hey I'm more alive right

now and so I'm gonna be able to do this

podcast now so it was Cwic Cwic and

that that means more alive it means

alive alive be alive or living yeah yeah

I had not seen that before and uh and

that was part of the idea right yeah it

was something unique it's a little bit

tougher when people are searching or I

tell someone it's quick media yeah you

guys spell it out but eventually my

thought was you know it's something that

could catch on and the uniqueness

will overcome that yeah that's

great so tell me what is Cwic

media so I know it's a podcast I know

it's a it's a show that you have also on

YouTube so you've got your audio you've

got your show tell me a little bit more

about what it focuses on so right now

the focus is primarily on scripture

study yeah and so right now for example

I'm doing a commentary on the New

Testament and so every week I put two

episodes together on

that and just go over specific chapters

within the New Testament and

then eventually we'll do one on the Old

Testament and other books of

Scripture but I have over order now 30

years now more or less done a lot of

it's been a hobby of mine

is there a study ancient civilization to

study other languages to study other

religions and so I have kind of a system

that I've developed in how to look at

Scripture regardless of whether it could

could be you know Hindu or Muslim or

Buddhist or whatever it is there's

there's a lot there's a kind of a system

that I've come up with where I've after

looking at books of Scripture and kind

of understanding where the authors are

coming from and some ancient philosophy

I'm able to kind of look at it in a

different unique perspective and maybe

reveal some things that other people may

not have seen kind of between the lines

right and where how did you develop this

this system I mean I you know I'm

somebody I went to Catholic school

growing up you know I've studied world

religions I've studied all of these

things when you're when you're talking

about that subject matter there is a

structure that's been in place for

thousands of years to teach that and

then for somebody to come on you know

come around and say well I've got it

I've got a my own system here I've got

these own pillars that I you know look

to or something how did you come up with

this where did it come about so some of

it comes from my own faith the LDS faith

faring a part of that but these actually

are unique and a lot of it comes from

the study of ancient scripture and

ancient religion and what I mean by that

is you know if you read I read a lot of

books about these things but more

importantly I actually read the actual

stuff you know so I'm going back and

looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls I

actually read the Dead Sea Scrolls and

not just books about the Dead Sea

Scrolls

Egyptian religion or going back to the

Babylonians and the Canaanites and the

Assyrians and all this other stuff right

there's kind of this common

mentality that for example the Bible

comes out of and even though as someone

who is a Christian and a believer I find

the Bible unique in that way but it's

also a product of the people that wrote

it right and Rand the civilization and

the time period that they were in and so

looking at those things I you can kind

of start to get an idea a little bit

more of a broader view of perhaps what

was meant and what to maybe take

literally sometimes and maybe what not

to take literally sometimes so can you

give us an example so walk us through

kind of are you talking about a you know

you pick a story from the New Testament

and then run this through your sort of

analytical process or kind of give us

what are you doing on your show

well so for example let me give you an

Old Testament sure example first yeah it

might be a little easier to that

everybody knows and that would be the

creation okay right yep so you have you

know I'll listen sometimes to a podcast

or somebody talk about someone who's

kind of pretty strong Christian and

they're trying to go into down the

Avenue of creationism and so they want

to talk about intelligent design and

maybe to one extreme it would be someone

who's saying no the earth was created in

six or seven days right and then on the

other extreme you have someone who is a

scientist and they're talking about

evolution and you know someone who is

who has a faith in God who have or

believes a Christian sometimes it's kind

of hard to find where you fit in there

what are your ideas on what this stuff

means right and so if I were to take

ancient religion broadly and look at the

Egyptians the Syrians of Babylonians the

Canaanites etc you're going to find in

fact worldwide you're going to find

similar creations

stories with all of them and they're not

exact but they're very similar they have

flood examples too late of Noah as well

right and so the first thing I would

look at with that would be what I call

the higher and lower law with that and

that is that most scriptural from all

civilizations most scripture is focused

on bringing the spiritual together with

the carnal or the physical and in fact

the very first lines of the first verse

of Genesis 1:1 is and in the beginning

God created the heavens and the earth

and I don't take that literally I think

what is being done there is it's a

you're laying down a principle that says

this is what everything's about right

it's about bringing together the

spiritual the heavens and bringing

together the carnal or the

physical and if you look at other

documents and from the Essenes of the

Dead Sea Scrolls and others that's they

focus a lot on that that's what those

things are focused on so if I have that

in mind to begin with when I'm reading

something like the creation story then

maybe I don't have to take everything

exactly literal as to what's being

stated there and I I can also look at a

creation story that is based on

Solomon's Temple and so for example

Moses goes up to Sinai he gets the law

right he gets the tablets the Ten

Commandments and he comes back down and

then they build a tabernacle after that

well that tabernacle if you study that

closely you see that that tabernacle is

actually built around those seven

creation periods from the Holy of Holies

in the center where the Ark of the

Covenant sits to the Vail that's a day

one and day two and you can actually

follow through the temple or the

tabernacle and see that this is built

around this creation story and so

you start to get a different view of

what their creation is about it doesn't

mean that you know light didn't come in

the darkness and maybe all that did

happen but you're speaking in very

symbolic terms right yeah and I can

appreciate that I think that that sort

of dichotomy that you're just you just

described as prevalent in a lot of areas

of life I we studied that hard in law

in law school you so you have people who

will look back at the US

Constitution and they'll be strict

interpret constructionists who say every

word there means exactly what it meant

back in 1790 right and we have to

follow that to the tea but then you have

the other guy so you say well kind of

follow the spirit of the Constitution

you know they were kind of talking about

all of these things and so you can

see that you know not just in religion

but in a number of different ways how do

you how do you approach that

conversation with people I guess

you have a number of followers right you

have a lot of people your podcast has

basically exploded I mean you haven't

been doing it for a long time yes you

you have a lot of people a lot of

interest a lot of followers how are you

how are you having that conversation

with them or kind of defining where

where that should fall where they should

fall more more kind of strict and strict

constructionists or is it it's a

case-by-case basis is it based on the

story that you're I'm not being our

fault in my question but you understand

kind of know I I know what you're saying

yeah exactly what you're saying I think

I think that at least with my audience

where I have mostly a religious audience

sure they would lean more toward the

strict construction sure and so what I

try to do is maybe find that medium

between that and the spirit of

things right and so in other words where

my audience might be a little bit more

conservative

I probably appeal to a little bit more

educated and those that probably

would look at a little bit more of the

spirit of something and so what I

try to do in the beat of the slogan

that I have for the for the podcast is

culture and practical theology okay

and so I always try to look at something

that is I

look at things in a very practical sense

and for me as someone who's always been

a critical thinker I need to know why

right I it's hard for me just to say I

can do it I can go off of what people

might call blind faith for a while right

but I need to know why and I think

that I think that's good I think that's

a good thing to do and so the more I can

get that out there the more I think that

that's what is appealing to people is

they want to hear something that is not

just what I call fluff right they want

to hear the meat and potatoes that are

behind it and so the more I can

construct the time period the customs

and the traditions and really the

mentality I think of the time yeah that

they're writing I think the more people

can see oh this is this is maybe what

they're trying to get at here instead of

trying to take something that's because

if you're setting your you're setting

yourself up I think for failure in your

belief in God or in your religion

whatever that might be if you go on pure

blind faith sure there's too much

information out there today right right

there's too much that you're gonna

absorb that it's just gonna bring down

that that house of cards well and I

think I think how you how you sort of

described that at the beginning when we

hopped on here you were saying that

there's a number of different stories

from a number of different cultures and

there's certain principles that are sort

of threaded throughout each of them

the Babylonians the Egyptians you know

all of the ones that you listed and you

know you can still see a lot of that in

obviously in the number of different

religions that we have throughout the

world there's a lot of similarities

between a lot of the belief systems and

they follow certain principles but when

you do get to certain beliefs that are

sort of in place without you being able

to know exactly why that can be very

off-putting to a lot of people -

especially

some of the things that don't make sense

to some people you know I don't know a

whole lot about LDS and I'd love to talk

to you more about that but you know

there are some things that Orthodox you

know Christians do or you know Orthodox

Jews you know separating the pork from

this and that and the other and you

start kind of scratching your head so if

my meat touches that my meat touches the

potatoes and I use that fork I'm going

to hell over this thing right I'm not

saved by our Lord anymore because of

these customs that I didn't and so you

get people who are kind of may be

curious about religion but then they go

and they see these things and it just

doesn't make a whole lot of sense to

them so I think what you're doing is

invaluable because you are going all

right

they didn't actually mean don't put the

pork next to this and then the other but

back in you know in the in the 2000 BC

or whatever this was going on this was

important because XY and Z and sure that

context provides a lot of that's exactly

right okay so you talked about I know

you've got other interpreters that you

use can you give us some other

expansion on some of those yeah so

again the higher and lower law

would be the first one that I that I

like to use and again that starts off

right at Genesis 1:1 so that's the

spiritual and the carnal or the physical

that's always trying to be brought

together I mean if I go to the heart of

Christianity for example in the

resurrection or even the it might be

described as the Eucharist or the

sacrament that that is used in most

Christian churches you know you've got a

representation there of both right

you've got the blood of Christ which is

really representative of the spirit sure

it's and then you've got the bread or

the wafer that is used for the physical

for his body right and he just like he

says in the Last Supper

and so that that is a that is a

principle that has carried through all

of Scripture and we can see that almost

everywhere a lot of people don't realize

that for example Moses when he went up

to Sinai he came back down first with

certain number of tablets right and he

had a different law and then he comes

down and the golden calf is there and

people making merry and partying and do

right so he gets mad he throws down the

tablets and breaks them and then he has

to go back up Sinai and he comes back

down with a different law right and so

to me as I look at that I think you've

got you've got a higher law that was

brought down first that they weren't

ready for yet and then he goes back up

and has to come down with a lower law

and most of what I see for example in

the old and new Testament is built off

of the this friction really that ends up

going between this higher and this lower

law and we have it today as well I think

I you know I listen a lot to a lot

of podcasts sure

and one guy listen to a Sam Harris okay

yeah so he's an atheist right kind of a

product of the Enlightenment he's very

focused on enlightenment values which I

feel I am - right right but he has a

very different view of purpose and

meaning and why we're here

etc but he brings up something that's

interesting that I would look at as a

lower law of you right he says he asks

about why are we looking at an existence

of god and he'll say that I’m trying to

think of his echo to say says that we're

basically we have to believe if we

believe in God that we're in a

laboratory that God has put together

right and that we're down here and we're

going to have to believe in some bad

evidence which is called faith and I

actually appreciate that he says

evidence in that because as you look at

this higher and lower law and now or if

I were to look at faith I think one of

the biggest issues that someone would

have with religion is understanding what

that faith means and at a higher law

level looking at that it would mean to

me it is not belief right that he's kind

of putting out there I think it's more

what he probably subtly said didn't mean

to say but and that is that it is

evidence and if you run a word search

for example in the Old Testament and you

look up faith you'll find two

two instances of the word faith in the

Old Testament whereas if you run into

the New Testament it's I can remember

200-300 something like that right and if

you switch that with trust and you run

trust in the Old Testament it dominates

over the amount of trust that's written

in the New Testament

so the Hebrew from the Old Testament in

the Greek from the New Testament these

words are mostly interchangeable and the

root for example of faith is federa it's

a Latin federa that was put into the

Vulgate that was translated by Jerome

it's it means trust and so if you think

of faith in the terms of trust and not

belief then I think you get a better a

different idea of what faith

actually means I don't want to believe

in something for the sake of believing

in something it's not enough for me but

if I can trust in something because I've

you know I've had a 30-year marriage as

you mentioned yeah that takes a lot of

work sure yeah that's and it's not

common and it anymore and it's not easy

no right now I love my wife to death I'm

very happy about our marriage we've got

four kids together but after 30 years

yeah there's a certain amount of trust

that is built up and that is the most

real thing about that relationship is

that trust it's very real and that's

what the word trust comes from it's an

old English word from trial which means

true and if I can lean on certain

principles in religion and they work I

can trust on them and after a while sure

right I can keep leaning on that and

trying it experiment with it just like I

would with science and I can experiment

with those principles and if they work

then I can lean on them now I've got

faith that's to me is what faith would

be but that's a an approach it would be

a higher law as compared to science

which would be a lower law which I also

believe in but

right so what's the counter to that

argument though so when we're talking

about Sam Harris and he's saying okay I

want more evidence he's saying is the

Atheist position because I don't are

they saying that

you should have some sort of evidence

that these laws are these principles

work so I think that what he's asking

for is physical evidence so evidence

of a creator yeah let me see something

show me a sign right it's let me

see something man so it's oh you idiots

who are you know religious mmm

you're believing in something

without any actual evidence so you're

saying it's not it's not just about kind

of blind belief in something you're

saying these principles have been sort

of passed down through the generations

through our Creator and it's something

that we've grown to trust therefore we

can we can kind of have that connection

to faith yeah I would say it is evidence

okay i that that would be and i think a

lot of religious people would not like

me saying that but i would say it is

evidence and it is it's just spiritual

evidence am I on here yeah it's just

yourself

it's just spiritual evidence and as

compared to physical evidence okay

making a correction on the sound all

right perfect

yeah so if I was looking at you know Sam

Harris might say well I'm gonna look at

this in a scientific view and I would

say great science is incredible but he's

looking at a carnal physical observance

there's also a spiritual observance that

you can have which is experiential right

like in in Spanish you know they

have two words for to know when is Saber

yes facts yeah I know something or

Conocer yeah which is I'm familiar

with it if I've been somewhere I know it

they would say and so that's

familiar with it and that's what I'm

talking about there is you still have a

laboratory that you can work with

spiritually where you would have

evidence like you would have with

science the difference is it's evidence

internally right it's I know this works

I know how I feel about it I know the

outcomes of things because I you know

love my wife I love my kids and I

sacrifice for them

why would I keep doing that because I

want the product that it produces right

yeah and what's the evidence of that

Greg how do you know how can you

prove that you love your wife how can

you prove that you love your kids that's

is what that's what I don't understand

there are certain things in the world

that you just have a guttural feeling in

your soul and in your heart as to the

way things are and I don't know how

people who don't or who atheists you

know how they how they actually rectify

that how do they how do they describe

that or explain that it's kind of

foreign to me that we're all just I

guess you know organisms who aren't

connected to anything just kind of

bumping around in the universe and

bumping into one another and we have

these feelings as a result of chemical

operations going on in our head in our

bodies and that's all there is to it

and if you think differently you're

under some sort of mass delusion

yeah which also means that your

outcomes determined already right in

other words if it's all by up biology

right then whatever you're going to

decide here in five minutes is already

determined by the cells in your body and

your brain right and which completely

removes agency right right you have you

have no choice as to what you're going

to do who you're going to be I've got a

problem that yeah yeah it's good stuff

it's heavy stuff I love it I love it

alright so there are some other

things that I wanted to make sure we

talked on we talked a little bit about

your marriage right your marriage is 30

years mm-hmm and you've got four kids

and I know your wife and she's

absolutely in love with you in a way

that it's good to hear it's good to hear

yeah I know her and she in and you

know when she talks about you can

see that that glisten in somebody's eyes

you can see it you know you can actually

see that there which is an amazing thing

you know you know my parents are

divorced a lot of my friends parents are

divorced some of my friends are already

married and divorced you know that is

just kind of something where I've got

one of them's twice divorced right

33 years old what are you doing you know

so third time's a charm

third time yeah they'll get they'll get

it right a parent

but you a couple things what do you

think the role of marriage what is the

role of marriage in today's world and

how are you able to maintain this this

marriage you've got as you said it's a

lot of work 30 years for kids it's a lot

of work can you can you give us your

thoughts on both those that's really

deep stuff that's deep stuff man that's

why you're on the show that's why you're

here this is this is public right this

is going up this public yeah it's going

live

hmm I would say that everything rests on

it and what I mean by that is

individually me as a person I think that

I don't think I can be everything I need

to be and I don't think I can progress

to where I want to progress to without

being married that doesn't mean for some

people it has to happen now I believe in

an afterlife I believe in marriage after

in an afterlife so I think that

everybody has that chance but there's

something about and of course this is a

big fight coming on our civilization now

with gender but there there's something

about being tied completely to someone

that number one you love and what I

mean by love is not a feeling I mean a

verb mm-hmm right it's like this is

action this is sacrifice this is I'm

gonna do what needs to be done and

having the ability to look outside of

myself for what really has become the

biggest part of me and so that changes

me right that changes me that makes me

more humble that makes me more spiritual

that that gives me better direction in

life to know that I'm fully responsible

for my wife now when I say that I

believe that she's also fully

responsible for me mm-hmm

right it's a two-way street and so I

think that that then changes a family

right and the way your kids are gonna

look at you and your spouse and then I

think it also changes civilization so

for me everything is

focused in on the family first and then

inside of that family it is it is

marriage and making that

work now my parents were divorced when I

was six years old I was really young my

dad remarried my mom didn't but that is

a big problem but I I think that and

it's not always in our world an easy

thing to accomplish we've got roles that

are changing often right now we've got a

lot of distractions we've got technology

that all the way back through the last

hundred years from everything from

washing machines and what can be done

for the domestic chores to the pill mmm

which changed everything there's been

some big changes there that kind of

disrupt what marriage used to be but I

still think it's absolutely core to

everything and the commitment there

is can I can I get outside of myself the

same thing with believing in God right

it's can I look outside of myself to

something instead of just to myself and

right and that's a death is a difficult

thing to ask of people in today's

society absolutely very difficult for

people to do that you know you used a

word sacrifices there's a part of you

that you're sacrificing to be in this

loving relationship with your wife

you're acknowledging there are things

that I have to give up to make this work

mm-hmm you can't just go do whatever the

hell you want to do exactly you can't do

it you have to give up certain things

and there's a lot of people myself

included that I'm not married you know

it's a little it's a little scary

right to say I'm gonna have I'm gonna go

give up all these things that's usually

scary in the commitment level right yeah

that's a big deal and well then you've

got you know you've got a lot of kind of

disposable culture that's you know

burning up you all the dating apps where

everybody's swiping left swiping right

now don't like you don't like you don't

like you don't like you go on a couple

dates didn't like I'm swiped it's just

it's disposable you know single-use

dates you go to the next one so it's it

is a it is an

distinct thing but I guess my question

to you is where I wanted to go with the

sacrifice comment was what happens when

people are in a in a marriage or they

rush into a marriage that they don't

they don't want to be in anymore how

does how does faith deal with that how

you know what's the recommendation on

that no you're not a marriage counselor

no I'm a marriage counts I know you're

not but you've been in the marriage for

thirty years and I don't know what my

wife would think about me giving advice

on marriage but yes I I would say

I'm a first question I would have is do

they have kids yeah I think that's one

thing that's lost today a little bit

more is like look I'm sorry but your

kids are more important yeah and

that doesn't mean that in some cases

there's no way around it yeah sure

absolutely but I think that if you again

make a very large sacrifice if necessary

for the benefit of your kid at least

while they're growing up that that's

probably the number one rule to me that

I would have yes I've got to make this

work for my kids if at all possible

no kids there or no way around it one

way that faith I think changes that

number one is if you're both in the same

have the same beliefs sure if you're in

the same religion together that number

one makes things a lot easier because

it's kind of a third point that you can

both go to right to look at for

direction and for a goal that you both

have right so that helps and I know that

the numbers are much higher for people

that are in the same religion being

married in the same religion than they

are as if it's split to stick together

just stick together yeah and then I

would say again I think the sacrifice

it's like it's like someone told me once

you know nothing worthwhile is easy sure

and so the marriage side it is not easy

yeah it's not easy but it's worthwhile

right and the bottom line is

the it's like your work you know I

mean if your work isn't easy right a lot

of the things you might want to do but

what are you producing and what is

coming out of that is it worthwhile to

you

and is there something greater that

you're getting back in return and see

think of those that that are able to

stick out a marriage for a long period

of time they live a long life they have

kids together they have grandkids from

those kids and they go into old life

having this legacy and all of this that

they have produced that's gold to me

right now I've seen it my scene with my

parents I saw with my grandparents you

know and it's again needing to know

why on something like that I think it's

really important but I think there's a

pretty strong why there at the end of

the road yeah and you know it seems to

me this is something that's always kind

of been instinctual to me that that you

know it's I I grew up kind of in a in a

broken home right I didn't you know my

parents were divorced single mom three

boys you know father was in and out of

the picture and it's a difficult thing

and then I would look at my friends and

I would say okay well you know they've

got a kind of a strong and nuclear

family and that to me just felt better

growing up but today it feels and that

was just was 33 years ago today it does

seem like there's sort of a transition

in our society that that's not necessary

anymore you know you don't have to be in

a nuclear family you don't even have to

be of the same of opposite genders

anymore you know to raise it raise a

child and you know without debating the

merits on that or whatever I do I do

feel like there is some importance to

kind of preserving society social fabric

and the institution of marriage is a

is a big component of that I think

that's right I I think that you know

when I think that when the rubber hits

the road on things life gets difficult

either internally with you personally or

with family or with work or in a

civilization things get really really

rough you know we're incredibly

privileged in the sense that we live in

a modern world with a great economy

technology we don't

in many ways I mean in many ways all

technology does is reduce sacrifice

right and work right it's like what's

more convenient you know I want

something it's like my wife actually

went last night went to red box yeah and

got a DVD and we couldn't make it work

yeah and I'm thinking well why would you

get a DVD that you got to take the time

to put it in and take it out come on

yeah and it's like it's all about

convenience right I was going with that

but I I don't I think that I think

that we're going to find with each

successive generation that is that unit

of marriage disintegrates that there's

going to be an unraveling of things yeah

that's interesting also there's a

there's with a lot of the social issues

with all issues actually there's kind of

always a pendulum that I think swings

back both ways you have you know the

free sex stuff you have no relationships

everybody is autonomous and independent

on the one end of the pendulum and then

things kind of swing back the other way

and back and forth I'm not real sure

where we're at right now I think we're

swinging back because see I'm thinking

of as you say that I think of the 60s

yeah right that's what I was around

there but he'll came around at first

before that and then it was sex drugs

and rock and roll right my teachers were

all from right but now and so what

it was it was kind of an unraveling of

rules everything kind of fell apart I

was a fall apart but I mean the family

has been hit by that right and now

it's kind of like you see like the me to

movement and things like that come

around it's like well wait a minute

maybe we do need certain rules here

because some things aren't working very

well and so it seems like that pendulum

as you say it kind of swings into this

area of everything's okay tolerance of

everything and then it's like well wait

a minute here there's some problems that

are coming up and maybe we need to set

some new rules in place

yeah I do think there's a whole

different topic we can dive into it a

little bit but there's kind of a

crisis of gender or traditional gender

roles the way that I see it so men are

not acting like the traditional man and

women are not acting like the

traditional woman anymore and this is it

may feel sort of empowering in some ways

for predominantly I see this with women

so just kind of anecdotally I'm at the

age now where a lot of the female

friends that I that I have who are about

my age 30 you know early 30s who have

kind of lived this life of being the

really independent strong feminist type

who doesn't need a man for anything you

know I'm independent I have my own

career and I never need a guy and all

this stuff well now they're kind of at

that point in their lives where I think

they're having some regrets I don't know

that they would admit it but you can see

that there is some concern there that

maybe had they done things a little bit

differently

they would have found a suitable

companion and they're kind of coming to

the realization that that the way

that they've been living their lives is

leading them to interact with a lot a

bunch of kind of subpar men mm-hmm and

then on the counter part of that you've

got a lot of men who are scared to death

of getting married they don't want to

get married they don't want to have kids

they want to play their video games they

don't want to act like men anymore they

don't want to make any of those

sacrifices that you talked about and by

the time you know you hit your hit your

early 30s a lot of those men are already

married or they're there there's kind of

this natural divide that happens between

the men who want to get into

relationships and once you hit 33 34 and

a guy's on his career path he's having

some success he's you know becoming kind

of more independent he's going maybe the

relationship stuff isn't for me anymore

so you've got this big divide between

the two genders and I think like you

said I think if this keeps going the way

that it's going I think there's going to

be a

very very large segment of the

population that is just entirely unhappy

III think that's right

now I've never gone through that I got

married when I was 23 yeah so I've had a

married life for 30 years here longer

than I haven't but I think that I think

there's two things there that she said

one is the men that

women would want to marry

there's probably honestly a smaller

group of men that women would have want

to marry than there are of women that

men want to marry and the reason I say

that is because the expectations now

from women of who they want to marry

they they've come into a place where

they're most of them working full time

they may have careers they usually don't

want to look at somebody else who may be

that makes less money than them yeah

that might be a feminist thing to do

fine but I think if you asked most women

I don't think that they would want

someone necessarily that makes less than

them I think they if they had their

druthers they would they would pick

somebody who more than them who's

successful you know they want that still

right and so the older a woman gets the

fewer of those men are going to be

available sure because those men

probably want to get on with business

and life right and so they're

taking care of things so now you've got

an ever-decreasing pool here of men that

those women would want to marry and then

with the women of course they've got a

biological clock there's just no way

around that

right and so if you want a certain life

with kids there's a timeframe here

there's a window right that you have got

to work within right and that probably

gets tougher and tougher to deal with

say for example the later into your 30s

that you start to go right for a woman

and no question and the clock is

ticking and they know it and the

problem is I think once that

realization

sets in now they're looking for the

first person who will marry them mm-hmm

and I don't know that but and I've had

these conversation that world I've had

this conversation with a lot of women

and they're just rushing to get married

and you know it's kind of like this

weird self delusion that's going on

they're telling you we're in love and

all this stuff and then I think that

contributes to the divorce rate sure

because they're rushing into a marriage

and it's done for the wrong

purposes but maybe I'm just uh well this

white male you know I don't know yeah

all the other thing is the women the men

don't have as much reason to get married

I right right I mean in our culture

compared to 50 years ago right I mean

sex is much more open right it's not

something like okay I need to get

married because I'm gonna go nuts if I

don't it's the exact opposite really

right and so it's like there there's no

real pressure of why do I want to take

on this responsibility why do I want to

make this commitment I can wait a long

time to do this men can have kids when

they're very old right it's a

complicated topic it's a complicated

topic yeah well you know I don't know

what the prescription is for it I think

maybe as the pendulum swings back you

know I am hopeful that people will maybe

have less at least in popular culture

have less animus towards the traditional

roles of men and women I don't think

it's a bad thing I horrible for men to

want to open the door more to give up

you know their seat or be a gentleman

you know and actually invest time in

caring for a woman and vice versa

you know it's something that is I

think kind of a lost art these days you

know it's unfortunate yeah I

agree

yeah all right a couple other things we

got I know I'm sorry

45 minutes all right so at the beginning

of the program you talked a little bit

about your journey into starting

quick mm-hmm and a lot of this was born

out of some health issues mmm right can

you share a little bit about that story

so yeah yeah I can share a little bit

about it all right I so I've always had

I've always been in healthy okay a lot

of issues with health

had to deal with mostly autoimmune type

of issues yeah I've had a few breaks

here and there from it but a lot of

stuff that I've had to deal with kind of

on my own and without doctors and that

has resulted in some actual very

difficult things very dangerous health

issues for example my heart so a few

years ago actually just yesterday three

years ago yesterday I I went in for

open-heart surgery okay and you know

some of that is genetic had a triple

bypass but some of it is not and I'm

certain based on things I have

researched since then that I think I

could have avoided that and many other

health issues that I've had throughout

my life

these autoimmune issues that I have with

a change in diet with a change in diet

number one which is basically primarily

little to no sugar or bread okay and

number two is through fasting and so

there's a there's a higher lower lock

issue there with fasting it's like okay

that's something that's most religions

prescribed mmm-hmm you're right in part

of their behavior and in their

principles is a you know there's a

principle of fasting well turns out

there's something to it right there's

something physical to it that is not

only okay I'm able to sacrifice a little

bit here I can kind of one thing I think

you learned from fasting is taking

control of you know call it passions or

needs that you have physically but you

know there's a spiritual element to it

also

and but between autophagy and your

gut anybody that researches into fasting

right now is going to discover a whole

new world medical world of benefits that

you receive that seemed to be an

evolutionary type of a mechanism that we

all have

that where you used to be used to you

know going through periods of drought

and famine and etc that really helps

your body fight against disease and

makes you feel for me it can be night

and day I will go through I started

about a year ago now Mormons fast

regularly anyway but I started going

about a year ago on to longer fasts and

so I started I longer we talking here

well I started with a one day a month

and then quickly went to two days so one

day a full 24 hours just water no water

no water no water not so nothing yeah so

that's a typical Mormon fast would be

once a month nothing okay okay and

that is that something that's pretty

regular I didn't do it regularly okay no

I you know most I would say a lot

of Mormons just kind of like they wake

up Sunday morning they don't have

breakfast and that's there

fast that's or fast a lot of that's

difficult to do yeah yeah so but so I

started doing the full 24 without the

water and then I went to 48 but drinking

water to the second 24 hours okay right

so I still only stuck to 24 hours

without water I did on my mission once

in Mexico City go 48 hours working my

butt off all day for two days without

food or water that's correct

it is crazy but then I went to three

days the next month yeah well just the

24 hours without water but in the other

48 with water and then I went to

four days the next month and so I've

gone to five days now I did five days

twice without any food just water and

that's it and here's the crazy thing is

that you think that you're going into

starvation mode or how could you

possibly do that

I feel great what I do it yeah you know

and now at first you don't because your

body's so used to having those carbs

especially and you've got to have that

energy and you get headaches and things

like that but if you move yourself

slowly into it I feel I don't stop a

fast because I'm hungry either

alright I just stopped it because of my

heart and I think okay there's only so

far I probably should push myself right

this but that more than anything else

for me has been the biggest change in

improvement in health is going through

those extended fasts that's interesting

yeah that's a lot and you're not

you're not taking any supplements you're

not no it's just nothing just not a not

a any thing they found is that a if

you're eating a lot of grain and carbs

it's like for people that get scurvy for

example yeah right on you know the old

days when you'd go on a ship and you had

no vitamin C you don't need it

if you're not eating all the carbs

that's what causes the scurvy and so if

you're eating grain if we've just the

cheap way to eat right right and you'd

eat on a ship if you're going traveling

for three months or something out on the

ocean you're gonna get scurvy if you're

eating grain and you don't have any

vitamin C but otherwise you don't have

your body produces what it needs and

keeps the balances in place because

we've evolved that and so I'm not

gonna recommend to anybody do that

without talking to a dog yeah throw that

disclaimer in there but for me it's

been huge huge huge deal yeah as you

were talking I did think back to it I

mean I used to wrestle and in wrestling

you have to cut weight which means you

are not eating I mean you're getting a

very limited amount of water as well you

have to make weight so if I was weighing

you know 190 pounds 189 pounds and I

needed to wrestle at 163 pounds I'm

losing basically 15 pounds of weight you

know just to just to make it under a

wrap yourself in saran wrap or I did it

all you know I did it all I did they

actually got advanced so instead of

wrapping yourself in anything or using

garbage bags they actually have sweat

suits

so you've they're plastic suits that

have you know like I'd like a tension

around the limbs so you put it on your

arms and on your feet and you're covered

in this big plastic suit then you would

throw on your sweaters and your hoodies

and all that stuff over

and you would I would I would literally

go into a sauna and jump rope and do

jumping jacks and in a sauna in that

outfit at least six or seven pounds in

an hour and a half you know it's crazy

but then you would you know that's only

the water weight then you know you

really wouldn't be eating almost

anything for probably two days before a

wrestling match and then you weigh in

that morning and then you just flood

yourself with everything you know and

but not really I mean because

you get sick your stomach everything is

shrunken up so you kind of slowly sip

the water until you put on six or seven

pounds back in the water but you know I

I never felt real terrible you know

during their during that time it's

probably you know terrible for my

kidneys and things but you know when

you're when you're 16 17 18 you know I

don't know I don't know honestly I'm not

sure about that I would say after the

first day and a half for me now it's

probably the first 10 hours but it's

starting off the first day and a half I

was I felt great yeah that after

the first day and a half it was it was

I'm thinking clearer one of the issues

that I have is I can't have this this

constant pounding throughout my body

that I feel wrong that goes away and I

have more energy it's the exact opposite

of what you would think but your body

compensates and it kind of clears things

out that you should that you don't need

and probably shouldn't have yeah yeah

and it makes sense you know I mean if

there is a history of humanity you

know prior to any of our recorded

history or any of those things as we

evolved or you know whatever however we

got here there's undoubtedly periods

where you've gone through a long period

of time not eating not drinking

sure so your body develops some

mechanisms to deal with that so it makes

sense for me all right one other thing

so on

LDS this is something that I am

interested in you know I know I know

you're very involved in the church and

your podcast is its Christianity

based mmm is it is this something that

people who are not LDS can listen to

sure and why is that I guess how

about this

what is

in a high-level overview what is the

difference between LDS or standard

Christianity or Catholicism or you know

I know it's probably you could teach a

college course on matter but

just give me some general framework here

so that if people are who are listening

who are not LDS can they get value out

of your program yeah first of all on the

program itself it's for example right

now again I'm doing two episodes a week

on the New Testament there might be here

and there something that is more

specifically an LDS reference okay but

for the most part I think that most

everybody would it's more of an

explanation of what's being said what

the environment is what the teachings

are that are coming out of there I think

that anybody who is Christian or not and

I have some that people followers that

are not Christian and a lot of what I

would call creedal Christians that do

listen to the podcast and that it really

enjoy it again it's very different and

unique and the takes that I have I think

the biggest difference between the LDS

faith and what I would call creedal

Christianity is exactly that word

creedal in other words it's the Creed's

that came were like the Nicene Creed and

others that came around mostly in the in

the third and fourth centuries kind of

codified a doctrine right that

eventually became what they called

universal and that's where you get the

name Catholic from it means universal

and what Mormons believe is that going

back to the time of Christ and His

apostles that is they were killed off

and you have Paul writing all these

letters trying to hold everything

together and you've got you know there

are the kind of already going off into

this apostasy or into the wrong

doctrines in these you know different

areas that he's writing to the

Corinthians and the Ephesians etc our

belief is that things did fall apart and

that there used to be a priesthood that

was with the Apostles that kind of went

away and that that was all centered in

the temple and so for both the Jews and

for Christians when that temple was

annihilated by the Romans in AD 70

well the Christians lost where they had

their center of influence in their

center of theology their sacrifices and

the priesthood you don't go around and

see many much priesthood anymore with

the Jews mm-hmm it's the rabbi's the

teachers and it's not they call

where they worship a temple they go to

Temple but it's really a synagogue and

and so we have a temple right that is

not where we meet regularly but we go

there for specific ordinances and for

mostly it's part of what we call sealing

which is to bring families together so

the whole thing is about families and

that our priesthood that we have that we

claim is focused on the temple it's

centered in the temple and so our belief

is that Jesus after he was resurrected

and the Apostles after he was

resurrected they spent most of their

time in the temple and they taught in

the temple and they had temple

ordinances that they followed and most

of Christianity would say well there was

a replacement of the temple with the

body of Jesus Christ and the body of

Christ is kind of the church right and

that's kind of the replacement the

temple we don't believe that so we

believe that there it is absolutely

necessary to have this temple where

these priesthood ordinances happen and

and where the authority kind of comes

out of and then we have a prophet

and apostles mm-hmm just like Peter may

have been a prophet and the Apostles

were there so you know we believe that

there was a specific organization of the

church with a specific authority that

fell apart much of the teachings carried

on and then at the time of Joseph Smith

the early 1800s that was restored

all of that was brought back so it's

more of a restoration kind of a theology

and that would be I say I would say

as far as theological II that's the

major difference that Mormons have yeah

I'm from everyone else yeah it doesn't

sound all that all that different I mean

it's just kind of an interpretive

difference between the two or you know

I'm sure there's some bigger lines

there I guess why there there's

kind of a big divide between Mormonism

and some of the other religions mmm I

don't know if you know if you're

aware of that barrier visions okay sure

yeah and it's not something you know

that I that I know a whole lot about but

I know that there is a division you know

the closest thing that I can kind of

relate it back to is when Mitt Romney

was running for president mm-hmm there

was a big backlash to that and probably

a big part of the reason why he's not

president I mean in my opinion is

because a lot of this you know the kind

of the what did you call him credible

cretin creedal Christian credo

Christians there was a big I think kind

of pushback to that I thought he was

highly qualified very charismatic guy

good-looking guy a nice family a lot of

accomplishments and he's running for

office but you have a lot of the

Catholics you have a lot of you know the

BAP to everybody who was really

concerned about you know quote putting a

Mormon into office why do you why do you

think that is I have my own suspicions

but why do you think that there's such

if maybe my premise is wrong but

if there's not a whole lot of daylight

in between the belief systems right

between some of the basic principles I

think are in alignment between you know

the Catholics the Christians the Jews

even the Mormon faith there's not a lot

of daylight between them why do you

think that there's such kind of a

vitriolic split between them when these

issues come up well you know there used

to be a really vitriolic split between

the Catholics and the Protestants sure

back in the day

and several hundred years ago and

maybe it's a little something like that

I think that number one you have a

religion that is very new relatively

mmm-hmm and so there are not hundreds or

thousands of years yeah

legacy here that you're looking at and

so anything that's new is always going

to be looked at with some suspicion yeah

and I think that's one of the first

things a member of the LDS Church would

think that they feel from someone you

know in a circumstance that you're

talking about yeah it's suspicions it's

like well what do they believe you know

what do they really do in

those temples what right right you know

what is this all about is this a

cultish type thing holds the word yeah

yes it's kind of insulting but yes but

it is thrown around a lot sure sure and

and it's like well I think I think that

part of that is because it's new I think

that part of it is because like

Catholicism where you know you had JFK

was like okay he was elected president

his first Catholic because there was

some suspicion there because you have a

mostly Protestant nation and the

Catholics are hierarchal right you've

got a structure for the church and it's

all goes up to the Pope right right and

we're the same way so it's not like open

for everything else it's like we have a

hierarchical structure also that goes up

to the president the church and I

think that's part of it I think that's

an issue it's kind of like it's all

kind of our way or the highway for us

right right and so I think that's

another issue and then I do think the

temple has something to do with it I

think I think that people wonder about

that and you know why it's just a

lot of it is unfamiliarity if you go

outside of the West in the United States

and you go to the south or the Northeast

a a lot of those people they've never

even met him warm mm-hmm right and so

it's like they're completely unfamiliar

with it they don't know the behavior or

the family centeredness of the religion

or anything

like that right and so I think it's

pretty natural that there would be

suspicion honestly I think there'd be I

think I think I would be that way yeah I

think I would be suspicious of something

like that if I didn't know anything

about it so I think a lot of it is

education I think a lot of is

familiarity and a newness yeah it's a

lot to do with it well and the community

is very tight-knit it is the LDS

community is very very tight-knit which

is I think a great quality of it I mean

you care for your own in a lot of

ways and I think that when other people

are other segments of society feel like

they're not a part of that you know it

starts it's kind of it's

cliquey you know it's like a little the

jocks are over there with the joggers

the Goth kids are over there with the

Goth kids and so people can sort of you

know build those walls even if they

don't need to be there and it and I

think that that happens even more so

maybe in the Mountain West here Arizona

Utah Idaho I grew up in Orange County

California and it wasn't that way really

you know because there were very few of

us okay and so it was like we were close

and we were kind of tighten it but yeah

I didn't my best friends were not LDS

you know I didn't grow up with my best

friends being LDS and until much later

in my childhood and so I think it's very

different in most of the world outside

of the when you again you had a

religion that was persecuted right

deeply persecuted right in certain parts

of the country and that basically got

kicked out in the middle of winter and

had to travel to Utah right and so they

were exclusionary and in some ways it

was a survival mechanism or and rape I

mean everything was going on right and

so they were very defensive and they

kind of maybe became a little insular in

that sense and they're out in their own

little civilization here trying to build

Zion you know out on their own and

everything kind of sprouts from there

but as the church has grown and

communication has

come about I think that people become

more familiar with things like okay it's

just it's just Greg right you know yeah

that's good but so yeah so there's a

history there is history there and

it is interesting I'm a political

science major before I went to law

school and you know we studied a lot of

American history and history of

throughout all you know all over the

world but when you're studying American

history the Mormon story in my

experience was basically left out you

know it was kind of a little blip until

I took a specific class on you know

American history in the southwest and

then we kind of learned about the Exodus

and you know the from I think

Nauvoo over to Utah and all that stuff

and it's kind of a shame because it is a

pretty amazing story on what happened

there and the perseverance and all the

hardship that went on there and so when

I look you know when Romney was running

and there was that kind of pushback I

would say it's the Mormon people

it's one of the most impressive stories

in American history I mean what

these people went through and what they

persevered and overcame and they're

extremely successful extremely loyal

they've got amazing families they've got

great businesses you know so maybe you

shouldn't be so fearful that these

people are going to come in and convert

the entire nation or something like that

like there's no you know some theocracy

so yeah some kind of underlying

ulterior motive going on here you know

it's just it's just you know just a

different set of good people there so

just relax over the whole thing but

it is interesting because it is it is

prevalent you know a lot of people are

skeptical about it mm-hmm yeah

Republicans are skeptical of Democrats

that's true Democrat just skeptical of

publicans you know and it's like yeah

you know is Trump gonna try and stay

in for twenty years and you know I

remember people saying the same thing

about Obama from the other side I know

and it's kind of like you know when you

when here again if you're outside of

that yeah you're looking outside you

know looking in from the outside it's

missions are easy to have well you

always got to find somebody to point

your finger at

makes it always always got to do it well

all right so where can people find more

from you so if they want to subscribe to

your podcast or to your YouTube channel

what are the best places for people to

go so on podcast I'm available on all of

the mediums iTunes Google Play Music

Spotify

Sound Cloud you name it on YouTube I've

got a channel there under quick meet

again that's Cwic media and I think

we're up to about 70 episodes on there

right now and then you can go to

cwicmedia.com we've got our all of our

episodes there as well as some

additional information about the system

that I'm gonna kind of looked at the

Scriptures through outstanding and

you're also getting a little bit more

active on Facebook yes let's talk about

yes so let's like that so yeah you

talked to me facebook.com slash quick

media Cwic media Greg thanks so much for

coming on today really appreciate

talking to you thanks for having me it's

fun until next time