Come Follow Me LDS- Helaman 13-16 Part 2 (Aug 31-Sep 6)

'You Can See It In The Stars'
- Where Samuel started with the Lower Law, he now goes to Jesus Christ and the Higher Law
- 5-Year Prophecy of Jesus' Birth
- We check Genesis 1 for help on the meaning of "Signs" in the sky
- The Lamanites and the Nephites both respectively abandon the Traditions of their Fathers
- Did Zenos prophecy of the restoration of the Lamanites in the Latter Days?


 Raw Transcript


all right all right this is
come follow me helam in chapters 13 to
part 2. last week we covered just
chapter 13 we're going to do chapters 14
15 and 16 in this episode
excuse the background here if you are
on this a little bit of a war zone back
here we're making a few changes to
the studio now in chapter 13
we get the theme of
judgment right that is what samuel the
lamanite is putting out there
now why does he do that first well it's
because judgment
and repentance are the lower law so if
i'm taking
the idea of of the the first interpreter
right as i look at these things
i want to look at the higher and lower
law here and you see this with amulek
and with alma and with we just saw it
with nephi
they first talk about repentance and
and then they bring in the higher law
they bring in jesus christ
we're going to get the same thing here
with samuel the lamanite as you learn
these interpreters
you'll see these themes over and over
and so here's samuel now is going to
move on from the lower law and go into
the higher law and start talking about
jesus christ in chapter 14. so we see
here in verse 2. it says and behold
he said unto them behold i give unto you
sign for five years more cometh very
and behold then cometh the son of god to
all those who shall believe on his name
this is kind of interesting because
five years from now what does that mean
there's a couple things i want to read
into the text here
first of all you remember that
in five years there is actually a
a deadline on the day five years later
so they know exactly what day this is
where samuel the lament is preaching to
them again is this a
festival is this a specific time of the
where samuel the lamanite would have a
large audience gathered here at
it gives us a little bit more of you
know a little bit of a
clue perhaps as to when christ would be
if this is a festival how else are they
exactly when this is going to happen
just just a guess
looking at this and then we go into
these signs now what are the signs
in verse 3 it says and behold this will
i give unto you for a sign
at the time of his coming for behold
there shall be great
lights in heaven in so much that in the
night before he cometh there shall be no
darkness in so much that it shall appear
into man
as if it was day so
we're moving into the cosmos here we're
going into something else that is
very important to this civilization to
culture as it was to all ancient
let's go down to verse 4 here at the end
it says nevertheless the night
shall not be darkened and it shall be
the night before he
is born and in five and behold there
a new star arise such and one as ye
never have beheld
and this also shall be a sign unto you
so we've got all these lights and then
we've got a specific star
and behold this is not all there shall
many signs and wonders in heaven
okay what is happening here what will be
happening here
first of all i think we need to look at
the word signs
okay the way signs the word signs is
often used especially if we look at
genesis 1
is that it is a mark right it is a
of what it's a marker of time so
for example a lot of people with a lot
of biblical scholars would say that when
you go back to genesis
1 and let's say we started genesis 1 14
because this ties right into what samuel
is doing here
genesis 1 14 says and god said let there
be lights we just
heard about lights lights in the
firmament of the heaven to divide the
day from the night
so this is the exact opposite of that
right and let them be for
signs this is hebrew
to be a mark and four seasons which is
obviously a time of the year
and for days and for years okay so
this was very important to those in
ancient cultures
first and foremost it was a very
important issue for agriculture
when do we plant when do we harvest
what are we planning on you know down in
egypt when is the nile going to flood
and when is it going to recede this was
very very important to them from a
priestly standpoint a lot of times you
look anciently and you'll see this
coupling of the calendar and a
and the reason is is because this was
very important to the priests
and to the church to be able to
when the festivals were going to fall
what day they would fall
and other rituals that they would go
what is the day each year
that we're going to have these rituals
and these festivals
so the stars were something very
important to them
let me continue a little bit in genesis
1. it then says
and let them be for lights in the
firmament of the heaven
to give light upon the earth and it was
i want to make a suggestion here i don't
know if this is right this is not
but think of the lights here as
priesthood and as revelation
like the dbr we talk about the word
coming down to each one of us
through a priesthood through individuals
through a hierarchy
right oftentimes the messengers the
are thought of as stars
that makes sense right you'd have from
the sun to the moon to the stars
we get something very similar in abraham
three it's a hierarchy
it is talking about priesthood to me
this is not doctrine right this is
my interpretation here and then in 16
and god
made two great lights the greater light
to rule the day
and the lesser light to rule the night
he made the stars
also so i wanted to bring this in
because we were talking about the higher
and lower laws
you have the sun and you have the moon
each ruling
a different time of the 24-hour day
right again i look at this as a higher
and a lower lie a higher and a lower
priesthood perhaps
these things are very symbolic so
this is keeping this idea of genesis 1
in mind
and the idea that the stars were very
to ancient cultures and maybe just as
the understanding that ancient cultures
could see all the stars
most of us that live in cities we rarely
see the stars or we
we rarely look up in the night even with
all the light the artificial light that
man-made light that we create with smog
it's it's very difficult to see all the
stars right for them this was something
very very important and very
religious someone who was an astronomer
or astrologer even would be someone who
would be very religious
because they would need to keep track of
the dates
and there was an idea even carried all
the way into today
that we have with say for example
right a perverted prophetic type of a
profession a little alliteration there
for you
where the stars would determine
what is going to happen today tomorrow
in your future
right that there is some truth to that
not in astrology but in the idea
that all these things are timed right if
this is going to happen five years from
now with the birth of christ
whatever this is that happens you know
hugh nibley gives the idea that these
are comets
they're already on their way to
illuminate the night
time the night before jesus is born
right everything is put into a you know
this whole
universe the whole the whole solar
system everything is put into almost
it's almost like a clock
and these astronomical signs
have already been put into motion
they've already been put into place
so besides thinking about everything
that's going to happen here on
this this extra day of light
that samuel the lamanite this extra
night of light that sammy the lamanite
is giving them
they understand this right they believe
in this idea of the signs
you even get the signs of the zodiac in
some cultures
right where the stars become gods
in the different constellations and they
battle with each other
usually so just a little bit of a
background kind of a you know what's
behind the curtain on what these people
might be thinking
and this is tied in together with in
verse 8 and it shall come to pass that
whosoever shall believe
on the son of god talking about his
the same shall have everlasting life so
again he's moving now into
the higher law now why the term son of
you should know this by now right
because the son of god means
the son of mary right that's what that
term means it means the condescension of
into the earth so it's the exact title
that it should be
bullseye for joseph smith over and over
and over again
and then he goes back into this whole
idea of being cast out that we've gone
right they've cast him out they don't
want him around they don't want to hear
what he has to say
and you can imagine you know we already
have the understanding that a number of
these people are willing to listen
but what happens when you don't want
when you are
ideologically possessed and you don't
want anybody else to hear something
you've got to get rid of the source so
you can imagine a large
group of people that have an obvious
interest in what samuel the lamanite is
and then a large group of people who
don't want to hear this right again the
emperor's new clothes
they don't want anybody calling this out
they have a system that they live under
that they want to keep in place and keep
a lid on
and so what does that group do they
start throwing stones and they start
shooting arrows at him they want to kill
they want to get rid of them just like
they always do with the prophets
interestingly here right that this is
kind of brought together
when when are they doing this they're
doing this as soon as
christ is brought up that's what's going
to be the most
heated fervent issue in my mind
and then he says this again going back
to our works and grace
13. and if you believe on his name you
will repent of all your sins
that thereby ye may have a remission of
them through
his merits right so how do we look at
how do we look at the gift that god has
given us through the sacrificial
it's his works it is love that's what
love is
it's works that's what
charity is right so as we talk about the
idea of works
and grace that's from our point of view
from god's point of view you know a lot
of sweat and tears and blood
shed right going through all of that
that is the love
are his works his suffering his
and so we're supposed to do the same
thing right we're supposed to have works
yes we're saved by his grace which are
works but we say that because
it gives us the opportunity to be
saved in terms of exaltation
it is our agency then that brings us
there we are saved
because there is a higher law because
there is the atonement
without it we cannot be but it's his
that give us that opportunity and then
he says i'm going to give you another
sign and this one is about his death
so his life right makes full sense is
his being born
into the world is the sign is extra
light other wonders and lights in the
and then there's extra light so we can
look at that like
you're bringing the light into the
darkness just like the beginning of
we can look at that as what is the real
source of light
regardless of when a day a night should
come and darkness should come
the real source of light is the savior
right and that's his life kind of like
the higher law
he says look he's got to die because
there has to be a resurrection
there has to be a resurrection first by
him and then by us
and there will be signs from this
there's going to be earthquakes there's
going to be
darkness for three days that makes a lot
of sense too right he's
gone for three days or or at least until
the third day
in paradise and of course the sign then
of his death
is darkness so we can look at that kind
of like the night as the lower law
in that sense with his death
but these things are all tied when that
happens as well
likely somewhere 27 29 a.d
whatever is going to happen that caused
that is already in motion
and that's a i think a good way to look
at everything again the way i look at
things sometimes
in my mind is that things are already
put into place
right you already know the lord already
knows the the end from the beginning
and so all of these signs all of the
rotations of the earth all of the orbits
everything within this cosmic
clock is already in place
and i think that's a lot with the way we
work right when we
look at god's hand sometimes in our
lives i think that sometimes it's
we make a decision with agency and that
law is
already in place to reward that or
to punish it to have the consequences of
and then the only question is is are we
going to align ourselves with
what is to be with the prophecy with
so he goes over these signs at his death
and then he says in 26 and behold thus
hath the angel spoken unto me
for remember remember the angel told him
when he was leaving zarahemla to turn
around and go back
and he said unto me that while the
thunder and the lightning lasted and the
that these things should be in that
darkness should cover the face of the
whole earth
for the space of three days so it's not
magical thing right that's not a magical
it's the result of the power of god but
those things are already in motion
when he's speaking it and then coming
back down here to our agency he says in
30 and 31
ye are free ye are permitted to act for
for behold god hath given you unto you a
and he hath made you free right that's
tree of the knowledge of good and evil
he hath given unto you that ye might
know good from evil and he hath given
unto you that ye might
choose life or death
well we've just gone over life and death
right the life of being
the savior being born then his death the
and the darkness right good
and evil and then samuel lamonite goes
the difference between the lamanites and
the nephites
and talks about how the lamanites are
much more righteous now than the
nephites are
and the big difference here that he
brings up
is about the signs everything that has
been shown to them all the prophets that
have come
among the nephites and all of the the
stories and the anchoring that they have
in the gospel and in the communication
between god
and the nephites right they're turning
it away
more than the lamanites are and he says
this in kind of a unique way and this is
gives us a little bit more of a clear
understanding again about
love right when i brought up love just
the love of god we need to see that i
think a little more
as his effort as his blessing
but as his as his effort not as how he
and it's the same with us anciently
especially in
eastern in the ancient east right love
is seen
more as a verb than it is as a noun here
in modern western minds we see love
first i think as how we feel about
but love really is an effort
it's a verb and it entails work and it
entails sacrifice it entails effort
he gives us the opposite here he
actually brings up the word hate
he says behold my brethren the lamanites
he hated this is god and how could he
hate the lamanites
he would never hate him again we're
using especially now in the last 10 20
hate has become a word that is just
pregnant with triggering
but if we understand love and hate
right what he's saying is is that he's
not blessing them as much again thinking
the the cosmos and the clock this is the
same type of thing well
if the lamanites are not
obeying the commandments then they are
not receiving the love and the blessings
of the lord as much that's what that
to me and he says the reason why is
because of the iniquity of the tradition
of their father so
again that's the opposite of where the
nephites are the tradition of the
nephites those that continue to remain
in the nephite nation has been one of a
of communication and covenant with god
the lamanites are the opposite and he
says because the lamanites here
recently have accepted the gospel
they've shown that they would accept it
that he's going to prolong their days he
says down here in chapter 15 verse 7
as many of them the lamanites as are
brought to the knowledge of the truth
and to know the wicked and abominable
traditions of their fathers
well again that's that's a huge thing to
it's like oh this is something negative
of my people
right we all have negative things of our
own peoples and without rejecting our
ancestors we need to reject those
negative things
and because the lamanites here do that
they reject these
wicked traditions of their fathers
he's going to prolong their days
and in fact he's going to provide
something for their
descendants right this is kind of like a
covenant something maybe
that he makes kind of like the abrahamic
covenant or the covenant with abraham
isaac and jacob
and the 12 tribes of israel he says not
only am i going to prolong your days but
i'm going to prolong the days here in
the americas
because of their firmness when they are
once enlightened
even if they should dwindle in unbelief
until the time this is again another
timing issue until the time shall come
which hath been spoken of by our fathers
what time well and also by the prophet
and many other prophets concerning the
restoration of our brethren the
lamanites again to the knowledge of the
truth wait a minute
so according to their fathers well we
can talk about the prophets of the
lament of the
nephites that have all prophesied of
restoration of the lamanites there are
many of these prophets that have seen
in vision and have been told that the
lamanites are going to be restored to
the gospel
but he's bringing up the the prophet
zenith here from the brass plates
so again being that these are very
josephite records these brass plates
it appears that this prophecy that we
see from
for example at the time of captain
moroni where he
rents his coat and talks about it being
just like the rent code of joseph
that there are prophecies about the
descendants of
joseph here that include the lamanites
as well
that's one way to read it but it says
here that they shall be driven to and
fro upon the face of the earth well
what has happened to the indigenous
people of the americas
and be hunted and shall be smitten and
scattered abroad
having no place for refuge the lord
shall be
merciful unto them eventually right and
we can already see that happening now
right the gospel has spread very very
to the indigenous people of the americas
and so samuel the lament here has
offered all of this
preaching about repentance and judgment
about the coming of jesus christ and the
atonement the redemption the
of jesus christ he's prophesied about
his birth he's prophesied about his
he's prophesied about his resurrection
and he's prophesied about
the lamanites and their restoration to
the gospel in a future time
well many of the nephites that are
listening to samuel the lamanite believe
he's persuasive and they end up getting
but those that do not believe him
they're angry with him and they cast
stones at him upon the wall
and also many shot arrows at him as he
stood upon the wall
you look at this kind of like nephi was
on top of a tower
right by in the garden tower speaking to
everybody here
lame as samuel the lamanite is up on the
and they could not kill him right you
think of like the stories of george
washington and others in battle
where they they seem to have been
watched over where the hand of
providence has
protected an individual
and when others see that they can't kill
them there are more that are baptized
they're baptized by the way by nephi
and what is nephi doing he's doing the
same thing right in in zerahamlet says
for behold
nephi was baptizing and prophesying and
crying repentance unto the people
showing signs and wonders working
miracles among the people
that they might know that the christ
must shortly come so again i mean my
question is is
is this in a a festival environment
here at zurahimla and so those that are
angry with samuel
they go forth to lay their hands on him
and he
disappears and then during the next
several years
as we're building up toward this time of
the birth of christ there are many more
great signs given unto the people and
and the words of the prophets began to
be fulfilled so
again setting this stage here these
signs are happening there
it's not like people aren't given
the lord in a sense you can look at it
as he's trying to convince everybody
of what is going to happen and angels
did appear unto men
wise men and to declare unto them glad
tidings of great joy who are the wise
by the way are these priesthood holders
another way to say wise men is magi
but the people began to harden their
hearts even at this point even with all
of these signs and all that's going on
and many of the people that had been
baptized it appears during the time of
samuel the lamanite here and nephi
begin to fall away from the church
right if it requires all these signs it
may be that your heart is not going to
end up being very strong
and so aside from the very most
believing part
of the nephites everybody else has
hardened their heart
and i find this to be very interesting
verse here in chapter 16 verse 16 it
some things they may have guessed right
hey you said that this was going to
happen this sign and wonder in heaven
these other things you got some of these
things right fine
you know whatever
i can guess the right time twice a day
but behold we know that all these great
and marvelous works
cannot come to pass of which has been
spoken right they are in
absolute complete denial on this
right they're in that ideological
framework of the emperor having no
clothes they can't
see it it's absolute denial and then
they give this very
let's call it intellectual response here
saying in 17 and 18 and they began to
and to contend among themselves right
you can see them talking about is this
really going to happen is this really
this sign could have happened this way
and this could have happened because of
you know justifying their denial and in
it is not reasonable that such a being
as a christ
shall come of course that's what it's
going to come down to here
even with the prophecy of him being born
into the world
it's just not going to be possible we're
going to take the extreme on this
and they say if he's really going to be
born why wouldn't he come here
instead of showing himself at jerusalem
never mind
all of the signs and wonders that have
happened over and over again here
the angels speaking to people and you
can see how something you know when
tied into a belief system and you want
to be right and you want power
especially for the movers and shakers
here that are keeping a lid on things
but for everybody else you just want to
justify you want self-justification
and you'll do almost anything sometimes
to do that
and then what do they bring up here
again this is again their
you have to justify this and they do it
religious means they say here in 20
but behold we know that this is a
wicked tradition you see how that
happens it's turned on its head
the people need to justify themselves in
their morality
and that this tradition has been handed
down unto us by our fathers
remember previously especially with the
lehighs we saw the same kind of
juxtaposition between the traditions of
the fathers and the traditions
with the the lamanites and that with the
and they were both brought up and the
anti-nephilihis had to reject the
traditions of their fathers
we did the exact same thing here in
helium 16 right where the righteous
once they've been taught by the nephites
they reject the traditions of their
well this time the nephites
are also rejecting the traditions of
their fathers but the traditions of
their fathers
are righteous so if we were to look at
ourselves and say well what are the
traditions of our fathers that are
righteous or not righteous
and do we justify some of those
teachings if we look at the scriptures
and the traditions that come through
those can we
downplay many of them and justify
an ideology in our minds justify
something that we just don't want to
and they say look if we can't witness
this with our own eyes
then how do we know that this is even
true but again
it's not that that's never the issue
when you're doing your
you're ideologically possessed when you
when you are in denial
the deny what they're denying is not the
the issue is is that they're denying the
issue is their attitude
their belief system their justification
if it was that jesus was coming to their
land right
then they would not be saying this as an
they would be saying something else and
the people say look and we go back to
the same thing here
they're going to be oppressors to us
this is just like layman and lemuel
speaking about nephi the exact same
right in 21 and they will by the cunning
and the mysterious arts of the evil one
right they're calling it wicked just
like the jerusalem
those that jerusalem did with lehi of
the evil one work some great mystery
which we cannot understand
which will keep us down to be servants
to their words
and also servants unto them they don't
want to lose the power
it's interesting because they're
rejecting the traditions of their
fathers the nephites
but they're adopting here the same
ideology the same victimhood
or concern for possible victimhood
and oppression that the lamanites do
very very interesting and this is the
same thing that the dissenters
said when they went over to the
they adopted the traditions in that
respect of the lamanites
and kind of became an advocate for those
traditions of the lamanites over the
traditions of the nephites
so this is the situation we find
ourselves in here coming up to the last
until the birth of christ and thus
we get here in verse 25 and thus ended
the book of helaman
according to the record of helaman and
his sons
i'll talk to you next time


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