Come Follow Me LDS- Alma 8-12 Part 2, Book of Mormon (Jun 8 - 14)

"Word Up?" Alma in Ammoniah Part 2

Alma (or Mormon) seems to be using the Hebrew root "DVR/DBR" in his writings. This includes all the way up to and beyond Alma 32 where we here of the"word" of God compared to a seed. In his chapters so far, we get the coupling of the words "Order" and "Word" or "Preach/Say". Both come from this root. Of course Jesus Christ is the "Word/Logos" and is the source of a chain found in the Plan of Redemption, of this "word" going out to the world through an "Order" called the priesthood.
Alma focuses his words in these chapters on the Doctrine of Christ and especially Judgement. Because the majority of the people of Ammonihah don't believe in Judgement.

He wisely brings up the Garden of Eden story which explains the Plan of Redemption, and where he is debating Judgment, he ends up talking about the Cherubim.

We should look at the Cherubim (its plural) as guardians of justice/judgement. That is what they and their sword represent- Judgement. Think about it. Where do they stand? When Adam and Eve entered a probationary state after partaking of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (The Law/Mortality), coming before the judgement bar was added to judge that probationary state. We get the same thing with Lehi's dream. The filthy river (lake of fire and brimstone) that sits between the Great and Spacious Building and the Tree of Life is Judgement just as Cherubim stands in front of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden. Notice the similar description from Nephi to the description of the Cherubim in Genesis -

"And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end." 1 Nephi 30.

This is key to the theological debate because the people of Ammonihah did not believe in judgement.



 Raw Transcript

all right
so again recapping zero says here see
that you remember these things
for he said that's amulek he said there
is but one god
yet he saith that the son of god shall
come so
he's saying there's a problem there but
he shall not save his people
as though he had authority to command
so think about where zizram is coming
from and who he's talking to
these are a lot a lot of these people
are negarites
and they believe in no judgment there is
no judgment
everybody is going to be saved so when
he says
that he will not save his people that to
them is
a direct threat against their theology
now think about that
think about how the sociological impact
is on this
to them they're looking at alma and
and saying they could be saying you are
because you're saying some of us aren't
going to make it
right because if this ideology had in
this theology has been ingrained
in those that are after the order of
nehor then wait a minute i've been
taught my whole life
that i am going to be saved no matter
what god loves me
right and now you're getting up here and
you're saying that i may not be saved
unless i do x y z you can see how that
can turn
real easily right can you think of
examples of that today
don't worry about consequences we
tolerate everything
we get that from all different areas of
the political spectrum we get that from
all different areas in a theological
but that's the conflict there right it's
like wait a minute why do i need to
of what i'm doing why do i need to have
faith in a redeemer there is no redeemer
there's no need for that because god
loves me don't
tell me i may not be saved so zizra
knows that is what's going on here and
that's what he believes we're gonna see
he definitely believes this and so they
very well how how to use rhetoric here
and how to
argue their point based on their own
and how to rile the people up and again
when you have an ideology like that
to be violent as a means of
changing things right i violence and
and political movements theological
movements they're never
about just people wanting to be bad
right that's that's not human nature the
issue is excusing
the evil for a moral cause
so if all those after the order of nehor
here if ammoniah
is strategizing on how to overthrow the
and how to destroy the church of god
they're doing it from a point of
morality they believe
right we're not going to let people
teach that some people won't be saved
we're not going to let you do that
that's not loving that's not accepting
can you see how that applies to today or
have you seen that anywhere
let's do the things that will be more
and not require personal responsibility
right let's not associate these things
with consequences
so amulet goes on the attack now
basically back to zero when he says look
you've lied about this
i i'm not saying that god has that i'm i
the authority to command god i'm saying
that these are his words
this is what he has said and zizra fires
back here and he says is the son of god
the very
eternal father again here's our question
of the trinity
and the godhead trinity versus godhead
but remember if you go back to the time
of king noah
and his son limhi king limhi as he's
speaking to the other ammon they
use the term eternal father for jehovah
so we have certain titles that we give
to god all the time
right for them that was more of what
they talked about remember jehovah
is the god of the old testament so to
and so when they talk of god or the lord
they're usually talking about
the son they're talking about jehovah
and they use the term eternal father
isaiah does right isaiah uses the term
the father
for jehovah but that does not conflate
our heavenly father with jesus the
the son of god they're just titles
remember abinadi tries to explain this
he goes in and explains that jehovah or
jesus christ
is the son of god because
he is born so that's the title he's the
son of god
because he is born into the world
by a mother but he's also the father
because we are born again
believing on his name and we become his
right so the title father also applies
jesus christ we just don't use it as
and he says look he is the first and the
last right the alpha and omega
and he is coming into the world to
redeem his people there's a necessary
element here in the planner redemption
where there has to be a redeemer
because otherwise we are not all going
to be saved the nehorites don't believe
and he'll take upon him the
transgressions of those who believe
on his name and they are the ones that
shall have eternal life and salvation
cometh to none else bam
right that is a major that's a trigger
for those of the of the order of nihor
and then he goes into something very
important here
and and i really like the way that
mormon has abridged this
to create this this narrative the way it
he goes into the resurrection and the
two deaths
the temporal death and the spiritual
death this is really important
for those that are after the order of
nehor he says
christ shall loose the bands of this
temporal death
that all shall be raised from this
temporal death the spirit and the body
shall be reunited again in its perfect
and that this restoration shall come to
all both old and young
both bond and free both male and female
both the wicked and the righteous right
he's saying what you think is salvation
all of you that are after the order of
nehor that everyone gets this salvation
is not true
not not a spiritual salvation you're
going to receive a temporal or a
physical salvation
you will have a resurrection and that
applies to everyone
just like you think spiritual salvation
applies to everyone and then he says
that we will be brought
and arraigned before the bar of christ
the son
and god the father and the holy spirit
now he
lists all three of them which is one
eternal god
right we do get the ex but we look for
it properly we do get the proper
explanation of the godhead
to be judged according to their works
whether they be good or whether they be
again bam this is right in the face
of the doctrine of the nehorites
this they don't believe and so this is
what's being pushed it's
judgment there is judgment
there are consequences you do need a
so now we learn in in the bottom of this
chapter here that z's room begins to
why why does he begin to tremble at this
again he really believed has believed
maybe his whole life
that everybody would be saved and as
he's hearing this from alma and amulek
he's realizing
that they probably have a point and if
they have a point and there really is a
judgment and this is found all
throughout the law of moses
and the scriptures then i'm in a lot of
trouble here
right now all of a sudden he turns from
being able to push off any guilt
in his life to having it heaped upon him
with the thought right just even opening
up a crack here
in his mind and in his heart that there
is a judgment
and that not everyone will be saved so
for him
that veil is just opening up just a
little bit
and and it's not a pretty sight at first
now here at the beginning of chapter 12
then here's what we get
now alma seeing that the words
of amulek had silenced zizram for he
beheld that amulek had caught him in his
and deceiving to destroy him and seeing
that he began to tremble under a
consciousness of his guilt so there's a
big change of heart here for zero he
also says this
he opened his mouth this is alma and
began to speak unto him into here's our
word again
establish the words
of amulek right so amulek has already
given the words
but now here alma is going to establish
these words just like he is there's
already a church and he's now
the church right and so alma kind of
takes the torch back here from amulek
and he kind of doubles down
right he sees a little bit of an opening
here with zee's room
and he says look your plan was to divide
and conquer here
and it was all through gear cunning
then he says something really important
he says now this was a plan
of thine adversary
now he's not talking about alma himself
and amulek is his adversary
he's talking about the accuser right
satan as his adversary
i think that's an important distinction
right that is charity
hate the sin love the sinner he's
that he's not he's not just saying
you're following satan he's saying this
was the plan
of your adversary your accuser
and he has exercised his power in thee
and then we get this imagery that he's
already gone over in zarahemla
and in gideon he says
talking about satan he says that he
might bring you into subjection
unto him that he might encircle you
about with his
chains that he might chain you down to
everlasting destruction according to the
of his captivity so now zero is really a
right he he's this is this is starting
to really
come home to him right and so zizra
starts to ask some maybe a little bit
more sincere questions and he says
what does this mean which amulet hath
spoken concerning the resurrection of
the dead
that all shall rise from the dead both
the just
and the unjust and are brought to stand
before god
to be judged according to their works so
if he's asking now sincere questions
this is what his biggest issue is
because this is the doctrine that he's
been taught
is that there is no judgment and that
everyone will be saved
but what amulek had said was that
everyone will be temporally saved or
physically saved
in the resurrection but everyone is also
going to be
judged by their works so he's like
what in 14 he explains this
first with for our words will condemn us
yea all our works will condemn us
we shall not be found spotless and our
thoughts will also condemn us
that's a big distinction by the way
between judaism and christianity
usually if you're speaking to someone
who is a religious jew
the thoughts thing is not as big of a
deal to them right to them it's the
it's the works remember it was christ
that as he started talking about for
example in in
the sermon on the mount and he's talking
about adultery
and how bad that is but then he says but
look if you're even thinking about it
then that is a sin and why is that well
it's because that's part of the doctrine
of christ
why does it matter what we're thinking
our thoughts have everything to do with
who we are and who we're becoming
and that's what is gathered in with the
doctrine of christ it's
all about who we are becoming are we
becoming like him
so take away the doctrine of christ
thoughts aren't as big of a deal
so he goes on about judgment this is all
about death this is important to
why he's talking about right death and
and death spiritually he says and now
behold i say unto you then cometh a
death even a
second death which is a spiritual death
then is a time that whosoever dieth in
his sins as to a temporal death
shall also die a spiritual death
yeah he shall die as to things
pertaining unto righteousness
he knows that this is what has got to be
explained to zizram into the people
he says then is the time when their
torments shall be as a lake of fire and
whose flame ascendeth up forever and
ever all right that is a
an imagery that that we get later on in
other ways
right and all it's all about judgment
that lake of fire and brimstone we talk
about hell but that that all has to do
tied in with the idea
of judgment and so others are saying
that zizram is
is having a real change here right he's
really changed here he is no longer
on the attack so there's one of their
leaders named antiona
who was a chief ruler among them came
forth and said unto him what is this
that thou hast said that man should rise
from the dead
right so that's automatic and be changed
from this mortal to an immortal state
that the soul can never die and then he
goes on and he's now going to put out a
gotcha scripture
right he's going for a gotcha scripture
here he says
what does the scripture mean which saith
that god placed
cherubim and a flaming sword think of
the lake of fire and brimstone
and a flaming sword on the east of the
garden of eden
lest our first parents should enter and
partake of the fruit of the tree of life
and live forever
this is fabulous so great that mormon
goes over this
why is he answering this why why is this
question such an important question
it's because cherubim is judgment that
is what the
those after the order of nihor don't
believe they don't believe in this well
the story of
the garden of eden in that story
is judgment that is what is put
in front of the tree of life you're
going to be judged
and remember if you take that away
what's going to happen he says it right
this is the this is what alma says this
is the thing which i was about to
so he's talking about judgment the whole
time here right he's putting in judgment
really hard
now we see that adam did fall by the
partaking of the forbidden fruit
according to the word of god the word of
and thus we see that by his fall all
mankind became a
lost and fallen people and i'm going to
go through
some of these verses here because
they're important and now behold i say
unto you that if it had been
possible for adam to have partaken of
the fruit of the tree of life at that
there would have been no death and the
would the word would have been void
making god a liar for he said if thou
eat thou shalt surely die
but he says nevertheless there was a
space granted unto man
in which he might repent therefore this
life became a probationary state
a time to prepare to meet god
right so the whole reason for putting
the cherubim up there
is to create this probationary period
where we could repent and grow
and progress that's what the judgment is
about based on that probationary state
if there's no judgment on anything right
if you've partaken of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil and you've
and then you go partake of you know
going into the holy of holies going to
partaking of the doctrine of christ
without there ever having to be any
or repentance then that's going to
frustrate the entire plan of redemption
he says here if it were possible that
our first parents
could have gone forth and partaken of
the tree of life
they would have been forever miserable
having no preparatory state
so they would have never been able to
overcome they would have never been able
to face adversity
and to have overcome that and grown and
faith by leaning on principles of the
can't be happy without that and thus the
plan of redemption would have been
frustrated and the word of god
would have been void taking none effect
but it was appointed on demand that they
must die and after death
they must come to judgment
that's the primary focus here with the
people at ammonia
that is the doctrinal point here that
there is a judgment
and that we do need to repent and that
there is a redeemer
that allows us to do that now remember
this is this is really important in the
garden of eden
story remember what lucifer says
to eve he says
partake of the fruit of the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil
because you shall not surely die
but you will be like the gods
all right so what is what is the
doctrine of
the nehors the nehorites that's it
that's exactly it right
you shall not surely die right
understand everything here being tied
together with what a death what death is
as a separation
and judgment there's no judgment don't
worry about it
you know you're not gonna you're not
gonna die and there's there's a need for
the resurrection and what type of
resurrection there is and
there's no need for a judgment bar at
death none of that exists
you shall not surely die but you will be
like the gods in other words you'll be
everybody's going to be saved that's the
way i see that
it's further temple imagery here that
brings us into this doctrine
of the order of nehor there is no death
slash judgment and everybody is saved
everybody will be
like the gods it's lucifer's plan it's
theology given to adam and eve no need
for a redeemer
very similar to what was going on in the
war in heaven
and by the way that judgment right
as being the cherub which is by the way
plural right it's not just some angel
that is plural and it's not an angel so
to speak it's more like one of the
in the visions that we get in the book
of revelation and from isaiah
right they're guardians they're
that doesn't mean there's not angels
there it just means in those visions
that's how they're portrayed they're
actually creatures
which have a symbolic meaning but the
cherubim with the flaming sword that
turns every direction is judgment
and in lehi's dream which again is kind
of the
opposite side of the chiasmus it's after
the fall
right the garden of eden story is before
the fall the vision of
lehi is after the fall moving back up to
the tree of life
and in that vision we still have
between the tree of life and the and and
great and spacious building or a
parallel to that would be the tree of
life and the tree of knowledge of good
and evil
and that's the lake or river
of fire in the chasm between the great
and spacious building
and the tree of life it's also there in
that vision
so those two visions right the the
garden of eden
vision and the vision of
lehigh both are about the planet
and both have judgment in them as an
integral part
of that plan so because of this falling
of adam and eve now we get again to the
focus at the end here
of dvr the word right
he says in 28 that he god saw that it
was expedient that man should know
concerning the things whereof he had
appointed unto them
right so this is how the plan is going
to carry out from a fallen
state and in 29 therefore he sent angels
to converse or speak the word
with them and they began from that time
forth to call on his name therefore god
conversed with men the word and made
known unto them the plan of redemption
which had been prepared from the
foundation of the world
so adam and eve fall and angels are sent
to them
right like peter james and john
emissaries from god
it's interesting to think about joseph
thinking about the temple endowment
and the sources that he's pulling from
and the inspiration that he's getting as
he reads certain things but you cannot
but go through these last couple
chapters here 10 through 12 here
and not see the temple imagery here
once you recognize it and alma therefore
is just
pulling from that he's pulling from
these sources probably from the brass
and from others that have written up to
this time in in the records
that become the book of mormon he could
very well just be pulling directly from
creation stories here
and garden of eden stories and he has a
clear understanding of how
that story and the fall and there at
what happens after the fall
how that is all part of the plan of
and how this word dvr is
brought forth out from god
out through to eventually us in 31
wherefore he gave commandments unto men
that's the word
they having first transgressed the first
commandments that's the commandments
that they were
adam and eve were given before they
partook of the fruit of the tree of
knowledge of good and evil
and becoming as gods when they partook
knowing good from evil placing
themselves in a state
to act right choosing
either the good or the evil or being
placed in a state to act according to
their wills and pleasure
which would be acted upon remember back
second nephi ii from lehi
where he talks about adam as well he
says that there are things that are made
to act there are things that act and
things that are acted
upon and we need to decide which one of
those we are
do we act moving toward the light and
following the word
or are we acted upon right because what
we're acted upon
in this reference here is being more
passive and
yielding as alma usually says yielding
to the other enticings
and we become creatures that are acted
then he finishes off here in 33-34 he
says but god did call on men
the word going out in the name of his
son that's interesting he's doing this
in the name of his son
because everything is done in the name
of the son
the word is the son right he is the
this being the plan of redemption the
which was laid saying if ye will repent
and harden out your hearts then will i
have mercy upon you
through mine only begotten son so why
why does it work that way why does there
have to be a redeemer
why do we have salvation through jesus
i think we have to look at not only the
spiritual economy here
where where our sins have been paid for
right because that's what mercy really
means mercy means payment
and payment means love in a spiritual
but by accepting the sacrifice of jesus
we have to change our relationship with
right it completely changes because we
then understand we have to accept
his love for us that he would be willing
to do that
to lower himself and suffer we have to
accept his love then
and then if we accept that that love was
for us
for what not to play harps in heaven
but to become like him and how
by mimicking that love by understanding
that that's who he
is and that we're to become like him we
mimic that love and take on the burdens
of our
brothers and sisters and our family
members and our friends and our enemies
and grow and progress which is what the
doctrine of christ
is really all about i'll talk to you
next time
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