The Church And Immigration

Political veteran Paul Mero and Greg Matsen discuss the hot topic of immigration in the US and the immigration "policy" of the Church. Do they match? Are they in conflict? Where has the Church stood previously on immigration law and enforcement? Where do they stand now? What is the ethical approach to immigration policy?

 Raw Transcript

you have to get control of your borders you're not even a nation if you don't have a border if I were sitting in a
sacrament meeting and Ice came in I would defend my lonite brothers and
sisters in that intimate somewhat traumatic setting that neighbor discloses to you that they're in the
country illegally would you go home and call Ice
[Music]
so immigration right at the Forefront of political and social issues right now where does the church stand where how is
this going to work with the Trump Administration and all the deportation and the conflicts that may arise there we've already seen a move by the church
to kind of concede in on some things that the Trump Administration is demanding not not concession to the
Trump Administration but in their approach and in their verbiage and what they're saying on their website Etc
including on BYU's website but uh Paul Meo is the right person to talk to about
this he's been involved with these things with the church with the Southerland Institute where he what which he ran and then in DC for decades
and uh got a lot of insight information on this he's actually evolved a little bit on his position with this but this
is really interesting we're going to see what's going to happen here with these issues we had the same issue with what
was it 200920 there where uh Utah passed a certain bill and the church uh helped
influence that on immigration as well so with Paul Mero I think you're going to enjoy this discussion on the hot point
of the church and immigration now this episode here is brought to you by uh
gospel on the Nile right I am the official spokesperson for go and do travel gospel on the Nile is a trip that
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scroll to the top go to trips and events and then scroll down to gospel on the
Nile here we go all right welcome to Quick show my name is Greg Matson and I am your host in this episode we bring
back Paul Meo to talk about the issue of immigration Paul how how you doing great
thank you you know this is a pretty hot sub subject right now lot going on uh
deportations planes military planes uh taking uh uh immigrants from
all parts of the United States out into their native countries um where do you
stand on immigration where do you think the church should stand on immigration and and and
why um well my experience goes back a decade and uh
more uh 2010 2011 the Utah legislature decided to finally deal with with the
issue of immigration the way that we're dealing with it today with the same seriousness and intensity and there were
a group of uh Utah legislators a handful five or six who uh traveled down to
Arizona in April of 2010 Arizona passed a a pretty uh I would say harsh uh
immigration bill um the polite term would be enforcement
only and um and curiously uh the guy who pushed the bill in Arizona was a stake
president LDS State president named Russell Pierce M and uh that passed and it caught the
attention of the conservative caucus up here at the uh Utah
legislature all my friends friends all my conservative comrades if you will and uh
they went down to Arizona talked to Russell Pierce and they brought that idea back to Utah and they started
pressing at in 2010 uh public opinion in Utah was
70% in favor of the Arizona enforcement
only approach and uh a few years before that
uh we had dealt with things like ever verify you know where employers had to check the the status of their uh
potential employees and uh so there were a few issues like that that had happened and
rolled up into 2010 and this experience um I I knew it was a third rail
politically to touch in Utah and I was uh this was when I was uh Running
southernland Institute um and um it wasn't an issue on the radar
of southernland Institute other than you know just the margins the
adjacent and uh um and I was uh I was on Temple
Square and I was talking to a senior church official about something different I
wanted to hold a World Congress of families uh event um and this would have been uh
2008 or n and uh I was I finished we finished
our discussion I was walking out of the room I had my hand on the door knob of his office and I turned around real
quick and I just said uh hey does the church have a position on
immigration and he paused and he said uh I don't know but I do have a
seat and for the next uh almost an hour
he uh he taught me if you will uh his
position on immigration um which after that conversation made
perfect sense to me so I'll explain it uh he introduced me to a couple Latin
terms uh malum prohibitum and malum in
say uh the former being uh it's wrong because of a
man-made law uh the other it's wrong because it's intrinsically immoral it's inherently
wrong like murder okay so uh this senior church official
he said uh did you drive to work today I said yeah he said' you go over the speed
limit I said ' of course he said ' did you feel like you had to confess your sins to your
Bishop I said no he goes malum
protim man-made law it's a law speed limit is a
law but uh you know it's uh it's what man made up it it
could be 55 M an hour in one place and 80 M an hour in another place right so
um you know there's some give there's some give and uh he he's not telling me to
break the law he didn't tell me that for heaven sakes but uh but he made his
point mhm and uh he said that's the way I feel about
immigration uh the reality back in 2010 was was that if um if a person
let's say from Mexico came across the southern border for the first
time uh it was uh the criminal equivalent of an
infraction not a misdemeanor not a felony an infraction like a speeding
ticket your first time cross the border was an
infraction and uh it only became a felony once you left the country and
came back again undocumented M okay then all of a sudden it's a
felony and uh after my conversation with that church leader uh I thought about it more and I
went back to uh the office the southernland office talked to my
colleagues um they they didn't like the idea that southernland would pick up this
issue and uh I said I I kind I'm feeling strongly about it now and in a different
way um I'm not an enforcement only guy I'm actually seeing these immigrants as
human beings and not as criminals so for
instance the policy today under the new Trump Administration um though not explicit
yet is that if you come into this country UND dou umented you're you're
inherently um a criminal mhm and so they're all
criminals well uh any of us who have lived around undocumented immigrants in
our communities understand that uh they're
not criminals they are otherwise law-abiding residents of the
state so uh back in 2010 um I made this case and I wrote a
memo to my Board of Trustees at Southerland and uh the memo was
lengthy uh It ultimately turned into an essay that we published as an Institute
called onus or opportunity conservatism and immigration
and I made the case for comprehensive immigration reform my my case was
simple let's create public policy that brings these indivi already living in
Utah I didn't care about the Border I'm I agreed with everybody who wanted to to
close the border I'm not an open borders guy as a conservative I'm just not an
open borders guy um but also as a conservative I feel like our public
policies have to be Humane and prudent and principled and uh and so I I my argument
was let's create public policy that brings the individuals already living
here in Utah at the time about 100,000 undocumented immigrants and uh let's bring them to
the surface of society bring them out of the Shadows the ones who don't come out of the
Shadows they're your criminals and go get them but uh but for instance you
might have uh you might have an undocumented immigrant family uh living
next door to a meth lab well they're not going to call the police and turn in the
meth lab people because they know then they're going to be under the scrutiny of ice so they're not going to do that
there were undocumented immigrant parents who uh would not walk their
children to school the children were on their to go to school because the
parents didn't want to be uh in the line of sight of potentially you know getting
arrested um the idea of enforcement only where
everybody's considered a criminal who's an undocumented immigrant leads us down
as a conservative I argued uh would lead us down a path of of to a police state
people getting pulled over asking for your papers that to me sounded like Nazi
Germany not Utah in 2010 and uh
so um southernland Institute was the leading conservative voice in Utah
outside of the LDS church and uh so when we published that
paper I did it purposely on Cinco de Mayo um kind of rub it in that's just
the way I am was my personality um the conservative caucus
inside the state legislature went crazy um I received phone calls
emails uh one one legislator uh uh told me that uh I'm no
conservative president Benson would be ashamed of I knew president Benson president Benson be ashamed of you Paul
um and uh um you're just not a faithful lday
Saint so uh getting to the end of that narrative uh it turns out in
2011 after 10 months of uh of uh me and
my colleagues attacking this policy um public opinion in Utah shifted
from 70% in favor of Arizona to 70% in favor of
comprehensive immigration reform and that was due to that was due to our work
that was due to us uh there was a young man uh talented young man he he works
for the Chamber of Commerce I think in Clearwater Florida now but he was with
the chamber here and he came up with this idea called the Utah Compact and he
said you know we need a rout ing point we need we need a document where uton
could read it simply it's a short document they could read it quickly and go yeah I I agree with that so we
released that in a August of 2010 and by the time we got to um
January 2011 legislative session uh we swung public opinion 70% the other way
and uh and in March Governor Herbert with about 20 of us uh signed four
immigration bills that uh that we had created and so Utah became this case
study for the rest of the nation at the time other states were calling the governor's office we were getting phone
calls how did you do that you're the reddest of the red States and how you
you pass comprehensive immigration reform you gave undocumented immigrants
work permits you gave him driver's licenses you what is how did you do this
right so um uh I'm pleased to say that the five
or six members of that conservative caucus didn't win reelection and uh one of them actually
uh he was an architect he so kind of wealthy he climbed uh Mount Everest and
he got caught on one of the base camps and uh
was going to die and he's laying in his tent and the guy's left him and he's
dying from whatever and uh he has to come to Jesus moment and the thing he
said once he got back home the thing that came to his mind was uh he needs to
ask for repentance on what he did uh to on immigration so that's
uh the story so I remember back at that time I was in Arizona at that time when
we had passed the bill that was pretty strong and it was the first
time I had seen a conservative member of
the church completely upset with the
church right it would always for me usually it was people that were on the left you know and because you know for
the conservative Church and it was the first time I ever saw a conservative like you know Orthodox type
member of the church really upset yeah at the church for what they did they just couldn't believe she couldn't
believe that the church would go along with this issue of immigration and the law and of course the Article of Faith I
don't which one it is being obedient yeah yeah obedient to the laws of the land all those right I remember that but
um okay so what about though I think there's different layers to this so that I I think that like I know several
people that are Latinos that have been in the states for
a very long time that are undocumented I can't imagine taking them and pulling
them out from their homes and their families or anything I I just can't imagine doing that right I I I would be completely against that yeah um but what
about to begin with what about prevention yeah what about preventing
this from happening in the first place before they ever get here yeah the problem with the comprehensive as I
recall I remember when McCain was working on this okay um and the issues
were the the those that were fighting against McCain the conservatives that were fighting against McCain would often
times go back and talk about Reagan where Reagan by the you know a pen stroke 1985 everybody's legal right good
to go but it was done under the premise that the Democrats once that was done the Border would be secured right and
then it never was correct right so that was always the argument look you there's no prevention there's no stopping it's
always let's just keep letting everybody in swipe or or or pen stroke everybody's
good to go and and that's just in perpetuation right isn't that a problem with part of the the idea of a
comprehensive uh immigration reform yeah not not in the not in the The Narrative
I just shared because Utah was only concerned about the ones who were here were here so they they knew that uh
first of all any state dealing with this issue is violating the supremacy clause of the Constitution so any of these
states right now Texas all of them who who are implementing their own policies
and laws to address it they're violating the supremacy clause because immigration
is a federal only issue right um so it wasn't a problem in Utah
um I think the and the answer to me now Greg is is is of course to enforce the
Border I should also add that I worked for two Southern California congressmen
my 10 years on Capitol Hill in DC I've been to the Border I've been to the
Border several times California I get it California is
a mess right and uh and it it being at the border at at night is
surreal watching Everybody line up on the other side of the fence the other side of the gate to just climb it and go
and run and uh there's just so many uh so many images in my mind from that
experience where it it just there there is no legal
immigration policy in the United States that's functional it's all dysfunctional
the legal immigration system is broken because Congress doesn't have the you
know what step up and to but either side and either side never has had this
Reagan had his own thing right he had his own way of looking at it kind of like I've described and he just said you
know what this is this is how I'm going to solve it you're not going to solve it then I'm going to try to solve it but
yeah Congress Congress has the ability to close the border open the Border
regulate the Border whatever they want to do that's the real problem uh so in
Border enforcement's important I mean when you're dealing look when you're dealing with a scenario let's say you're
you're at the border crossing between California between whatever's beneath
San Diego and Tiana right you're right there where all the cars go through you
have 400 illegal immigrants rushing through
the Turn Style kind of way right up the highway you you might have 14 border
patrol people one of the guys told me that when that
happens he's got one hand because he's got to keep his other hand on his gun so they don't take the gun out of his
holster how many people do you think they catch see that's the mess that so yes you can close the border I believe
in that firmly but the better public policy the additional better public
policy is to take the immigration fight into Central and South America is to do
a couple things Marco Rubio the new secretary of state I think he's touring Latin America right now I he ought to be
talking to them about how do we improve your economies down here so that people
feel like they can make a living in combination with how we should
come in with military and destroy those cartels but you can't destroy the
cartels unless you have a viable economy so that the ones who have been working
for the cartels regular FKS have an option have an option have an option
you've been to Mexico you know what it's like you got to have an option and trust
me you and I if we were in that position on the other side of the Border where either through violence or
economic uh despair we didn't know what to do and we were six inches away from
the United States both you and I would take that step no question absolutely
right there's no question exactly so we're dealing we're dealing with human beings with
true uh human sincere motives
and I and I mean by and large I get there's criminals I don't know about all
these numbers that Trump talks about millions or hundreds of thousands or
whatever fine it doesn't even matter the numbers don't even matter anymore what
matters is the public policy that actually will create solutions to better
the lives of people who are wanting to come here and to better Our Lives the
ones who live here the problem is is I mean Rubio can go around and talk about these things get some ideas let's find
people you know you could probably get El Salvador right now it could probably work with you pretty well most of those
countries are very socialist yeah they don't like the United States yep they
they are uh corrupt as can be yes and you you
cannot have a viable economy with that level of corruption and socialism yeah
so how do you control that so how do you control that how do you change that I me you're talking about a mountain of a of
of of a change this is and I even hate to say it
because I'm not his supporter this is a trump moment this is a moment made for
Donald Trump this is a moment made for a guy who doesn't care what they think who
only wants to protect the United States of America he he he I don't even I don't
know his heart obviously but my guess is he doesn't share my heart about the
issue he sees it maybe a little differently maybe a lot differently but
he is the guy right now who has the power just like he did when he when uh
uh was it Venezuela or Colombia that wouldn't accept the plan colia Colombia wouldn't accept the plane he said fine
25% tariff on everything that you send to the United States and and if you don't do it within a week I'll make it
50% mhm what happened next day 24 hours Boop they let the plane land now there's
still going to be day-to-day issues there's going to be combative politics I get it but you have
to try you have to put pressure on these countries in fact if they're corrupt
they should be easier to deal with because it's all about money and power that's it that's it I mean when back in
the day in the 60s and 70s United States propped up how many how many dictators
let's just call them that how many dictators in South America and around the world uh there's ways but but none
of those things changed I mean we had a short-term change in Panama you have a short-term change in in in uh uh well
yeah Nicaragua you know but that what it it just takes somebody with some guts
yeah like you've got in Argentina and El Salvador right now I mean it's everything has changed for them because
of the one guy in charge yeah who has quite frankly close to dictator
absolutely capacity absolutely that's how that's how you fight corruption
that's what I'm saying it's a Donald Trump moment it's a King for a Day
moment and I think that he's the right guy at the right time I don't like him
but he's the right guy at the right time to do what it takes to get these Central
and South American countries to wake up and pay attention
yeah it's interesting because those those count especially Mexico they they I don't remember the I want to say it's
almost 20% of their economy comes from US Dollars being sent back from
immigrants in the United States that might be the wrong number I don't remember but it's they're they they're
dependent yeah heavily that's why they have no problem with all these people leaving we we'd have a problem if we had
all these people leaving our our our country our our our our economy would start shrinking their's grows because
they're bringing the US Dollars back in right uh but so without
dependence you you have to substitute it with something yes you know you have to create jobs you have to have industry
you have to I I well that was part of the reason why NAFTA got pushed uh was to was to do this I'm not
talking about creating another NAFTA by any means that was a disaster well weeren in the exact opposite environment
right now of trump too I mean he's oh yeah he's not going to naft anything no he's he's like no come home yeah but
like I said he's the guy I Greg I I think what why why this is important to
me is because this is one issue that really uh
separates uh separate it kind of calls the herd among conservatives I
think I can tell an authentic conservative on this issue and like I
don't think Trump's an authentic conservative I really don't uh I think Marco Rubio Pro I don't know why I keep
mentioning him he's just Secretary of State and I just read about in the paper that he's on this Latin America Tour I
think Rubio is close to an authentic conservative anyway uh you know but if you're like a bill Buckley William F
Buckley Jr kind of conservative um you know Buckley uh grew up in Mexico
by the way even though he's got that weird he had that weird English accent
yeah yeah I know that's odd but uh yeah his dad was a oil driller in Mexico and
Texas and and he grew up down there but uh you know he was he was not a
hardliner he believed in a secure border he believed in borders but and towards
the end of his life you know uh he was a little harder on the issue but
throughout his professional career the guy who basically ran the conservative
movement for decades in the United States considered maybe the father of
modern conservative in the US uh wasn't a hardliner on it he was a
Reagan guy right what do you think re you think Reagan came up with this idea on his own no who sits in council with
Ronald Reagan oh yeah the guy that uh publishes the magazine that Ragan reads
National Review Bill Buckley so anyway I think for me authentic
conservatism uh deals with Humane public policy and
Prudence not just hardcore principle but prudence and Humane public policy in
other words an authentic conservative sees the government of the United States
the federal government not as the enemy not as the enemy but as part of a
uh socioeconomic governmental structure that helps us live the pursuit
of happiness and in that case The Government Can secure the Border should
secure the Border but the government shouldn't we shouldn't call on the
government to become a police state you know where we're turning our neighbors
and I here's a here's an anecdote for you in 20 0 when I'm running southernland at the time in the
Republican Senate primary uh Senator Mike Lee was then candidate Mike Lee and
he was in a Republican primary with uh Tim Bridgewater Tim Bridgewater was a
businessman Tim Bridgewater is a friend of mine Tim Bridgewater was on the board of Southerland Institute I held uh a a
debate that we streamed live and uh here's what I asked
them I said gentlemen you're both LDS right faithful LDS and they shook their heads yes I said let me give you a
scenario what if you got a phone call from a neighbor who had a sick child and
the neighbor asked you to come over and help minister to that
child in that intimate somewhat traumatic setting that
neighbor discloses to you that they're in the country illegally would you go home and call
ICE they just stared at me and I said Mike would you call ice
and he says Nope Tim would you call ICE no but and
then he gave some kind of a Spiel uh I voted for Mike Lee for Senate
uh not only that but also he actually knew conservative books that I had read you know so but you know my point is
Mike Lee is probably considered a very stalwart conservative I think anybody
would think that say that yet that's how he answered the question why because he's a human being
he gets it he understands that there's that these are human beings were talking
about so uh it it's it's certainly a complex issue but all public policy is
and and but there are layers to this like you say the border is a tough thing
and but you have to close it you have to steal it I've often wondered I I know
this this and I don't mean mean this seriously but I often wondered why hasn't a border patrole and
just shot somebody wouldn't that stop people from coming across I mean if we
were there and we saw some guy get shot you know we go let's turn around I don't
be a bad idea that's a bad idea I don't want to you know so there's things you can do I'm not advocating that at all
but uh uh you know I I think there's there's good public policy to be had if
indeed there's leadership and and in this era of of politics being so corrupt
in the United States and Congress being so inept they can't even they the
Republicans can't even hardly come to an agreement on who their house speaker
is this is a time for Donald Trump this is the time for a king for a day to lay
out an order and go for it and push it and get everybody in
line salute the flag what why do you think right now you know
based on what was going on with the Biden Administration did that the Border became even more porous than it had been
before I mean it's and and you know you hear these stories about uh emptying the prisons in Venezuela and
and and bringing them up to the US and I happen to know that's true right I mean I I I'm trying to figure out why are we
allowing in fact here in Utah allowing it uh and in Arizona allowing it we had my my
wife works for what you what you mean allowing what in Utah allowing planes
from Venezuela and Colombia and other places to come into the state and
land with immigrants not just crossing the border they're flying planes they flying planes into the states that
should be easy enough to take care of yeah you think so but but what what how do you get to that point I've got my
wife works for a uh a criminal defense firm so she's you know small small
criminal defense firm and uh in the last couple of months they've had two phone
calls from Venezuelans MH who have been trying to bring drugs across the border
MH after they already got here MH they both got here they were both in prison
in Venezuela for drugs yeah they both got here on a
plane sent from Venezuela to one to Arizona and one to Utah yeah Landing
here given housing yeah and and uh and
then you know they just carried on with what they already knew what they were doing in Venezuela right they they found their connections started bringing the
fenel up through the border and kind of started doing the same thing that's in a little Law Firm just two people already
doing the same thing yeah you can't tell me that's not happening at a wide yeah in in a broader uh uh uh
sense what are the incentives for us to allow that why does a governor Cox allow
that I think he's changed his tune but why would he allow that why is Arizona
allowing that why does the federal government allow that what are the incentives well first of all those two
Venezuelans have zero rights in the United States of America zero nothing
nothing and and so they ought to just be put in prison I mean I don't
know what the legal ethics are but but that law firm ought to just make one phone call and say by the way these are
drug dealers you know they're bringing fentanyl into the country I don't care really much about my uh my bar license
at this point I'm worried about the United States of America my family my neighbors uh this is who they are this
is where they live this is their phone number go get them out of here right I
think it's just that kind of behavior I don't I'd have to believe I know Spencer
Cox I know him well but you know I know him enough and
uh I can't believe he would know that a plane flew in with people from Venezuela
illegally I don't know who controls does f FAA control that I I don't know who
controls these planes that come in whoever it is that's what I'm talking about Trump should just say here's the
rule you know if you got some weird Anonymous plane flying
in first of all you know you call the Department of Defense or somebody escort
that plane the hell the heck out of out of this country you know or if they land
there's ice all over it you know I that just seems to me an example a scenario
that seems so Common Sense on how to take care of it that I'm not sure
Spencer Cox would even know about that if he knew about it I'd be embarrassed
if he didn't do anything about it there was the issue that the mayor of Denver had sent a plane over isn't that
right I'm trying to remember this a the mayor of Denver sent a plane of immigrants over to Utah because our Pol
our I'm not in Utah but yeah the policies here were different than they were in in Colorado I want to say or
something like that I don't know that mayor from what I know the mayor that guy to be arrested too you know or just
be kicked out of office uh sarily uh what I'm trying to get to out here
Paul it's so Loosey Goosey well it it's un it's
unbelievable that it's at this this point it doesn't have to be and we can fix this without without rounding up
people without without objectifying individuals as criminals
when they are otherwise law-abiding citizens when they are otherwise part of
a thriving economy there was some movie I I'm try I was trying to think of the name of there's some movie that I
watched the whole premise was in one day all of the undocumented immigrants left
you know like uh what the what are the evangelicals call that the Rapture like like the Rapture they're gone and here's
all these uh here's here's all these rich white people you know in Southern California looking like why is the
lawnmower just sitting there you know why how come my bed's not made how come
this isn't happening how come homes aren't being built all sorts of things you know and that is honestly is a movie
but that's the reality right you know it I know it Trump knows it every body
who's ever dealt with immigr understands the impact that undocumented
immigrants have on the company and by the way I was always using the term illegal
alien always I was up at the University of Utah invited into a classroom
political science to talk about immigration I was already on the
comprehensive immigration side at the University of Utah very Progressive
group of students I thought safe environment I use the term illegal alien
but cut your head off they groaned they moan and of course I'm candid and honest
enough I just stopped and said all right what now you know what did I say well
don't use the word illegal alien just use undocumented immigrant
honestly if there's anything PC about me in my entire life that that was one moment where I
accepted that line and that's why I use the term undocumented I get a lot of
crap for that they're not undocumented any they're illegals you know they're criminals okay shut up I you know I just
don't want to hear from people like that anymore I've been on this issue a long time Greg I've experienced it I've seen
it firsthand at the border I experienced it in Utah here and uh uh I've led a
fight a public policy fight I've watched a governor sign four bills that I helped
push uh I I co-author the Utah compact uh the church never signed the UT Utah
compact but a half hour after we released it they endorsed it just for
clarity sake which is interesting honestly yeah yeah I know I know it's
that's because there's this like I told you when I'm talking to the senior
church official which is why get involved why why why I I I don't know it's interesting uh because they I'll
tell you why well I mean I know what their reasons are but why why publicly endorse it because because the Church of
Jesus Christ of latterday saints has a covenantal
obligation to help the lonit Gentiles in the Book of Mormon
second Nephi I'm looking at it I'm waiting for this cuz I've seen that open the I'm looking at it right now I won't read
it to you but you know I mean we're supposed to be I will soften the hearts of the
Gentiles that they shall be like unto a father to them wherefore the Gentiles
shall be blessed and numbered among the house of Israel why do you think we had the
restoration because because white people coming from Europe were supposed to get
the gospel of Jesus Christ were we the covenantal people at the time no no we
were we were playing a role we are playing a role yes are we part of the
House of is yes especially those of us who've made covenants to be a part of
the House of Israel but the Book of Mormon is clear all throughout it the
Gentiles are supposed to carry on their shoulders the
lamanites that doesn't mean open borders that doesn't mean any ridiculous
public policy what it means is latterday Saints ought
to ought to take a second look at what they think about
immigration and why their church leaders support a thing like the Utah
compact five principles and uh and anybody who hasn't
read if you're a latterday saint and you haven't read the Utah compact you should it's online Utah compact. comom I think
and uh and just read it and the church has come out and uh sustained it again
and again and again is there any has the church ever supported open borders no
okay no no no no no no they haven't that I'm aware of because you'll I hear that a lot from members of church ridiculous
members of the church come in and say ridiculous never heard that and I'm telling you from the horse's mouth of
that narrative I shared with the senior church official if that senior church official doesn't know what he's talking
about then nobody knows what he's talk what the what they're talking about um
that senior church official is the foremost lawyer in the
church yeah okay so dividing it then because this is the issue usually is
there's a division between the Border yes and those that are already here absolutely
those are two separate issues absolutely and but the you have to kind of bring them to I mean that's what comprehensive
is right but it never becomes that way but it's you you have to do both you have to do both you do have to
do both when I say do both I mean you have to not in the same bill okay then you know what though in
my opinion based on track record and precedence you have to do the Border first you have to do the Border first
and and then and then you can make the safer for those that are already here yeah I I don't know that's my opinion yeah and I don't I I don't know that the
that the sequence is necessary I I know that you have to close the border you have to get control of your borders
otherwi you're not even a nation if you don't have a border right so you have to
get control especially of that southern border I guess now it's northern border too but especially the southern border
so yes that's a must so if I'm King for a Day that that would be my first order secure the
Border I agree and I would also make sure that
we're addressing the issue of those who are living here already and we're separating the
otherwise law-abiding residents from the criminals M that would be my next task
my third task would then be what I said earlier I would go into Central and
South America I'd meet with the the leaders dictator or democracy I'd meet
with them all and I'd say no more no M you know as Roberto Durant said
noas uh and uh I say we're not putting up with this anymore any nonsense you will be
punished your nation we will punish you well it seems to me that that is the
best way I mean not the punishment necessarily but just the addressing addressing the economies and
the corruption is is the of of of soua in Central and and Mexico America right
that's the best way to put them on our shoulders well we have the economy we have the knowhow we have the
infrastructure yes that's our shoulder yeah why can't we put them on our shoulder and and and address those
issues for them right help them with those issues because be and because you need a king for a day you need Trump uh
if again If I Were King for a Day in that position I would I would coerce
those Nations I I would carrot and stick them and if they didn't take the carrot I
would stick them and uh and I wouldn't even think twice about it and when
people are hearing that it's like look you're talking about the leaders right because it's it's it's for
the people I would people look uh this is just me and this is entirely a um a
hypothetical scenario so uh please government if you're listening don't go
after me but uh I would say uh at some point I would even go assassinate a
dictator I would I would I would remove people and I mean why do we have a CIA
if we can't do that right you know so why I mean they've done it before why
can't we do it again yeah yeah so yeah I would say you I mean lead you got to
lead you have to be tough and this thing is so out of control you cannot Nuance this thing you
have to go after it aggressively and and the part about
those living here you have to be prudent you you you cannot just say they're all
criminals no you can't do that no you can't do that these are families I know these people you know we've got you know
just even every almost everywhere I've gone in a state we've got a we've got a Spanish-speaking Branch I love these people and honestly I and is ice is ice
going to go in there exactly well you know what they will will you why well I think they will because you've got this
horrible idea that uh this is what I do not like about what I've heard from the Trump Administration is that they're now
saying the executive order that Trump signed allows them to go into schools and churches yeah to find bad deal
you're not going to school you're not going to the churches just speculate with me for a second if you're president
Nelson what do you do what what's your word to State presidents and
Bishops my word is I don't know what I'm not gonna say
it I'm honestly I'm not gonna say it I I know what I would do yeah but I'm not going to say it yeah well I know exactly
what I would do and it's the same thing you would do m M yeah and uh and if I
were sitting in the sacrament meeting and Ice came in not I uh I would
defend I would defend my lonite brothers and sisters no question I'd get thrown
in jail on their behalf I'd do it yeah uh any last words no I think that's
a wonderfully high note to end on isn't it my life yeah it's good stuff Paul
really appreciate it great discussion again thank you um you know you ought to think about the issues on immigration I
think that the idea of thinking of everybody as an individual as a family is very important I'm not saying that
there aren't issues that have to be addressed I think there are major issues that have to be addressed but uh keep
the humanity in it thanks Paul thank you